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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
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Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
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Depending upon the Holy Spirit for all you do?
Read through the following study by Tenchi for more on this topic
https://christianforums.net/threads/without-the-holy-spirit-we-can-do-nothing.109419/
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How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
Join Sola Scriptura for a discussion on the subject
https://christianforums.net/threads/anointed-preaching-teaching.109331/#post-1912042
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Nephilim
- Thread starter Kathi
- Start date
Deborah13
Member
K
King James
Guest
A
agua.
Guest
Yeah that's true. I have a real interesting hypothesis though but Reba's head might explode. :D Oh hang on I just noticed she's under a pile of bricks.
The angels you mention from Matthew are in heaven.
Satan is in the earth. Job 1:7 & 2:2.
Some of the angels kept not their first estate. Ju. 6.
The dragon and his angels can't be found in heaven any more.
Re. 12:6-8
Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. 1 Co. 15:50
But it, the angels who cannot get into heaven, can marry, ...The sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair, and they took them to wives of all which they chose.
Ge. 6:2
And they could have children, ... They bare children unto them... Ge. 6:4
6 And the angels who did not keep their proper domain, but left their own abode, He has reserved in everlasting chains under darkness for the judgment of the great day; 7 as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities around them in a similar manner to these, having given themselves over to sexual immorality and gone after strange flesh, are set forth as an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire
4 For if God did not spare the angels who sinned, but cast them down to hell and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved for judgment; 5 and did not spare the ancient world, but saved Noah, one of eight people, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood on the world of the ungodly; 6 and turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah into ashes, condemned them to destruction, making them an example to those who afterward would live ungodly; 2 Peter 2:4-6
18 For Christ also suffered once for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive by the Spirit, 19 by whom also He went and preached to the spirits in prison, 20 who formerly were disobedient, when once the Divine longsuffering waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water. 1 Peter 3:18-20
Both Peter and Jude associate the Angels [spirits in prison], together with Sodom and Gomorrah...
These sons of God, Angels as Peter and Jude called them, were not drowned in the flood because they were not human.
JLB
We have several examples given that serve as a warning, or as examples due to ungodly behavior. That's the purpose: to serve as examples.
Sodom is set forth as an example (it was destroyed).
Mankind (and the whole earth) is set forth as an example (it was destroyed by water).
Angels that sinned are set forth as an example (they are chained in darkness).
The text does not demand that it was the exact same behavior (sexual sin) in every case.
With the exception of 7 each of the clean and a pair of every unclean -- the flood destroyed all.
It does not necessarily follow that all animals and all "creeping things" were guilty of violent sexual sin.
Sodom and Gomorrah? Yes.
Animals? It's doubtful.
Angels? We simply don't know.
I suppose it is possible that pre-flood plants were guilty of not respecting boundaries too? Perhaps they too "cross pollinated" with different kinds. I'm not being serious here, but maybe I should open a thread in the Christianity and Science section to get the opinions of others.
Sodom is set forth as an example (it was destroyed).
Mankind (and the whole earth) is set forth as an example (it was destroyed by water).
Angels that sinned are set forth as an example (they are chained in darkness).
The text does not demand that it was the exact same behavior (sexual sin) in every case.
With the exception of 7 each of the clean and a pair of every unclean -- the flood destroyed all.
It does not necessarily follow that all animals and all "creeping things" were guilty of violent sexual sin.
Sodom and Gomorrah? Yes.
Animals? It's doubtful.
Angels? We simply don't know.
I suppose it is possible that pre-flood plants were guilty of not respecting boundaries too? Perhaps they too "cross pollinated" with different kinds. I'm not being serious here, but maybe I should open a thread in the Christianity and Science section to get the opinions of others.
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Sinthesis
Member
If one wants to blindly accept the sensationalist theories about the nephalim, then we have to wonder what sexual sin the Israelite spies thought the children of Anak were committing with their grapes in order to grow such large clusters. Then again perhaps size is just indicative of quality to the ANE mind. Grapes of renown.
2
It is a lot easier to learn from the examples of the bible if we don't literally demonize those who fell short and were judged accordingly. Better I think to accept that the Sons of God were just like us, failing in a completely human way, for which the world bore the consequences. If we bring these stories close to home then they are easier to learn from.
A
agua.
Guest
(Job 4:18) Behold, he put no trust in his servants; and his angels he charged with folly.
This is interesting when we see this word "folly" sometimes used in other places referring to sexual activities.
Gen 34:7 And the sons of Jacob came out of the field when they heard it: and the men were grieved, and they were very wroth, because he had wrought folly in Israel in lying with Jacob's daughter; which thing ought not to be done.
2Sa 13:12 And she answered him, Nay, my brother, do not force me; for no such thing ought to be done in Israel: do not thou this folly.
Jdg 19:22-23 Now as they were making their hearts merry, behold, the men of the city, certain sons of Belial, beset the house round about, and beat at the door, and spake to the master of the house, the old man, saying, Bring forth the man that came into thine house, that we may know him. (23) And the man, the master of the house, went out unto them, and said unto them, Nay, my brethren, nay, I pray you, do not so wickedly; seeing that this man is come into mine house, do not this folly.
Deu 22:21 Then they shall bring out the damsel to the door of her father's house, and the men of her city shall stone her with stones that she die: because she hath wrought folly in Israel, to play the whore in her father's house: so shalt thou put evil away from among you.
This is interesting when we see this word "folly" sometimes used in other places referring to sexual activities.
Gen 34:7 And the sons of Jacob came out of the field when they heard it: and the men were grieved, and they were very wroth, because he had wrought folly in Israel in lying with Jacob's daughter; which thing ought not to be done.
2Sa 13:12 And she answered him, Nay, my brother, do not force me; for no such thing ought to be done in Israel: do not thou this folly.
Jdg 19:22-23 Now as they were making their hearts merry, behold, the men of the city, certain sons of Belial, beset the house round about, and beat at the door, and spake to the master of the house, the old man, saying, Bring forth the man that came into thine house, that we may know him. (23) And the man, the master of the house, went out unto them, and said unto them, Nay, my brethren, nay, I pray you, do not so wickedly; seeing that this man is come into mine house, do not this folly.
Deu 22:21 Then they shall bring out the damsel to the door of her father's house, and the men of her city shall stone her with stones that she die: because she hath wrought folly in Israel, to play the whore in her father's house: so shalt thou put evil away from among you.
Thank you for making my point.
Angels are not confined to the earth. Humans are.
The sons of God continued after the flood to produce Giants.
JLB
:amen
JLB,
In his most recent post, Jasoncran included a link to scholars who believe that Angels were involved as the sires of the Nephilim. You have asked for others to speculate on how they may have survived the flood? Footnote #8 from the quote from chabad.org (that Jason provided above) gives us one such explanation:
If we think that the term means "men of renown" or "mighty men" -- I would venture to say that there are many here even now. If we think the terms means "Giants" then there are also many here even now. If the term is defined to mean "the offspring of angels and human women" then you're right, it must be angels. Are there any here now? I don't see it.
I don't know how to accept opinions about disputed meanings as the ultimate authority.
~Sparrow
In his most recent post, Jasoncran included a link to scholars who believe that Angels were involved as the sires of the Nephilim. You have asked for others to speculate on how they may have survived the flood? Footnote #8 from the quote from chabad.org (that Jason provided above) gives us one such explanation:
If we think that the term means "men of renown" or "mighty men" -- I would venture to say that there are many here even now. If we think the terms means "Giants" then there are also many here even now. If the term is defined to mean "the offspring of angels and human women" then you're right, it must be angels. Are there any here now? I don't see it.
I don't know how to accept opinions about disputed meanings as the ultimate authority.
~Sparrow
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I'm trying to not take sides too much. Personally? I don't like the ideas of angels mating with women any more than I like daffodils cross-pollinating with Chihuahuas. But that doesn't mean that others can't believe what they think is right. I do see how many can conclude that angels were what the Scripture talks about.
It's just strange that they can't see why anybody would object. When another Member asked for speculation about "how" such a thing like giants or mighty men or men of renown could continue past the flood without angelic assistance? Well, that's when I remembered the story about Og. It's a good story. I'm very visual so I can almost picture it. He was a giant, right? I bet he could hold his breath for a really long time. Who knows? Maybe his angel daddy helped him too?
I should be careful though because I'm taking about stuff that I know nothing about. That's clear enough, isn't it?
It's just strange that they can't see why anybody would object. When another Member asked for speculation about "how" such a thing like giants or mighty men or men of renown could continue past the flood without angelic assistance? Well, that's when I remembered the story about Og. It's a good story. I'm very visual so I can almost picture it. He was a giant, right? I bet he could hold his breath for a really long time. Who knows? Maybe his angel daddy helped him too?
I should be careful though because I'm taking about stuff that I know nothing about. That's clear enough, isn't it?
jasoncran
Member
im with stovebolts on this because if they return and they are human how would we know they have angelic dads and if they want to be saved we kick and be mean to that person. simply because he is like..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/André_the_Giant
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gigantism
of which killed him. he was tall. so consider that please.
There are very real ramifications to the belief, yes.
Pitfalls that need to be avoided. The warning about the flood and the reason is "ungodliness" -- something that none of us want to fall to. It's always easier to assign fault to an outside source, but really? How can that help?
Pitfalls that need to be avoided. The warning about the flood and the reason is "ungodliness" -- something that none of us want to fall to. It's always easier to assign fault to an outside source, but really? How can that help?
This is starting to sound like we can't say anything in disagreement about Obama because it is racist. Who here is saying we need to become Giant slayers? Or racist towards big people?
Just what do you mean by ramifications Sparrow? Everyone Here, that I have read knows the surface meaning of the Flood. Just some have dug a little deeper after that.
But I want to know what ramifications you are placing on us because we believe the Angel theory?
I may be wrong but some seem to want to "elude" that we are somehow racist for believing this or we are headed in that direction.
Just what do you mean by ramifications Sparrow? Everyone Here, that I have read knows the surface meaning of the Flood. Just some have dug a little deeper after that.
But I want to know what ramifications you are placing on us because we believe the Angel theory?
I may be wrong but some seem to want to "elude" that we are somehow racist for believing this or we are headed in that direction.