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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
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Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
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Depending upon the Holy Spirit for all you do?
Read through the following study by Tenchi for more on this topic
https://christianforums.net/threads/without-the-holy-spirit-we-can-do-nothing.109419/
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How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
Join Sola Scriptura for a discussion on the subject
https://christianforums.net/threads/anointed-preaching-teaching.109331/#post-1912042
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Nephilim
- Thread starter Kathi
- Start date
Sinthesis
Member
Angels are messengers of God, so if we are actually fulfilling the great commission, then we are in effect angels. Non human heavenly creatures are something else, but if they are messengers of God then they are also angels.
K
King James
Guest
Genesis 6:4
4 The Nephilim[a] were on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of man and they bore children to them. These were the mighty men who were of old, the men of renown.
For me the important thing is the also afterward. How it happened exactly will always be in debate. Whether they survived the flood, or angels came after the flood is the question. In Numbers it says sons of Anak of the Nephilim so we do know that they can breed.
http://www.openbible.info/topics/nephilim
That doesn't make your point.
Let's play your flood scenario out. Where do you suppose your non-human angels escaped too? How did they return? Where are they now?
6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan also came among them. 7 And the Lord said to Satan, "From where do you come?" So Satan answered the Lord and said, "From going to and fro on the earth, and from walking back and forth on it." Job 1:6-7
yes, while I was speaking in prayer, the man Gabriel, whom I had seen in the vision at the beginning, being caused to fly swiftly, reached me about the time of the evening offering. Daniel 9:21
Angels are called the host's of heaven. They can fly.
Wherever they wanted to.
They were unaffected by the flood as they are not human, but had the ability to manifest as human.
That is why they are now confined in chains in hell, for they could go and come as they pleased.
They had continued after the flood to take women for their wives and produce giants.
At some point after the flood, they were confined in chains down in Tartarus.
They are in chains down in Tartarus.
JLB
You make some good points.
I would ask that you consider another possibility.
I agree that the giants could take wives.
I agree with you that the nephilim could breed, but that doesn't mean they could reproduce.
Please consider the only other alternative.
Which brings us back to; There were giants on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men and they bore children to them.
Consider that the "father" of the nephilim [sons of God], bred with the sons wife to reproduce.
This is what Lot did, as he was the father of the Ammonites and the Moabites.
36 Thus both the daughters of Lot were with child by their father. 37 The firstborn bore a son and called his name Moab; he is the father of the Moabites to this day. 38 And the younger, she also bore a son and called his name Ben-Ammi; he is the father of the people of Ammon to this day. Genesis 19:36-37
Although God had given Lot his own land...
19 And when you come near the people of Ammon, do not harass them or meddle with them, for I will not give you any of the land of the people of Ammon as a possession, because I have given it to the descendants of Lot as a possession.' " 20 (That was also regarded as a land of giants; giants formerly dwelt there. But the Ammonites call them Zamzummim, 21 a people as great and numerous and tall as the Anakim. But the Lord destroyed them before them, and they dispossessed them and dwelt in their place, Deuteronomy 2:19-21
JLB
Edward
2024 Supporter
Well they seem to fit right in to me. Those Angels left their first habitation got severely punished for what they did in Genesis 6 and are awaiting judgement in Tartarus. Homers Iliad describes Tartarus as being as far below hades as hell is below earth. Sounds like a special place of torment for the fallen Angels who sinned. So yes, I am suggesting that the spirits of the pre flood Nephilim are the evil spirits of today.
How do I explain the post flood Nephilim? I don't for sure except that they were there for scripture says so. One theory I have heard that seems may have some validity to it...remember after the flood, Noah was drunk in his tent, Ham did something, Noah got mad later when he woke up and cursed (not Ham!) but his child, Cannan. Now why would Noah curse Ham child instead of Ham if Ham done something wrong? That's very interesting to me. The theory I have heard is that Noah seen the child had 6 fingers, and knew what that meant.
Genesis 6 does say that Noah was perfect in his generations. It does not say that his sons wives were perfect in their generations. one of them carried Nephilim genes onto the Ark. But Noah had three sons, so the other two wives were probably ok and had a pure bloodline for Jesus to be born into. Do I know this for a fact, no. Could it be? Perhaps.
Edward
2024 Supporter
6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan also came among them. 7 And the Lord said to Satan, "From where do you come?" So Satan answered the Lord and said, "From going to and fro on the earth, and from walking back and forth on it." Job 1:6-7
yes, while I was speaking in prayer, the man Gabriel, whom I had seen in the vision at the beginning, being caused to fly swiftly, reached me about the time of the evening offering. Daniel 9:21
Angels are called the host's of heaven. They can fly.
Wherever they wanted to.
They were unaffected by the flood as they are not human, but had the ability to manifest as human.
That is why they are now confined in chains in hell, for they could go and come as they pleased.
They had continued after the flood to take women for their wives and produce giants.
At some point after the flood, they were confined in chains down in Tartarus.
They are in chains down in Tartarus.
JLB
Hey, that's interesting Brother. I hadn't thought of that. you could be right. It was after the flood that they got buried into the earth and chained up. Even Enoch backs that up now that i think about it. I like that theory better than the Nephilim genes on the ark theory. Good thinking there brother. Geez, they could've even went and sat on the moon eating popcorn and watching the flood. They probably weren't happy, they were watching their children die, which is exactly what Enoch says that God pronounced upon them, that would watch their children die.
stovebolts
Member
I know you will disagree, but I'll put this out there anyway.
Within the 10 commandments, we see the 5th commandment as a bridge between how to treat God, and how to treat your fellow man. This bridge is set forth with the commandment to love and honor your parents. You see, you will love and honor God only as much as you love and honor your parents.
To that end, you are a reflection of your parents and how you were raised. Furthermore, as a parent, you are responsible for raising your child. So the question becomes, "How are you raising your child".
In the case of Cannan, it may very well be possible that Cannan "Saw" Noah's nakedness, and this word "Saw" is a very interesting word in the Hebrew language. But to my point, it is possilbe that Cannan was cursed because it was Cannan who "Saw", and as Cannan was Ham's son, Ham is held responsible not only for Cannan's actions, but how Ham failed to deal with Cannan's actions.
I don't know if you will be able to see this, but I put a higher probability that you and others won't be able to accept it either.
So, there is my .02 on the matter. You may continue on now... I was never here.
stovebolts
Member
Edward
2024 Supporter
You might actually be right about that, Stove. As I sit here pondering JLB's last few posts, I can see that.
stovebolts
Member
A donkey and a horse can in fact breed and produce offspring that is called a mule.
A mule can not reproduce.
Likewise Angels and humans are both created by God in the image of God.
Angels have the ability to manifest themselves as men, as we see from accounts in the scriptures.
I would have never believed that sons of God [angels] could interbreed with women and produce offspring, had I not read it in the scriptures.
JLB
I thought you were asking for man's speculation on the subject. I like to answer in kind. Frankly, it seems to me that this is what is being offered. There are three speculative lines of thought on the subject. When we go to the "what could be true" line of reasoning I can no longer see any line drawn between truth and guess.
Seems to me that Jesus said that heavenly beings can't have sex. But if I were to point to that relevant quote, I'm 100% certain it would be opposed because he said we would be like the angels in heaven (after the resurrection). That COULD mean that angels can have sex while they are not in heaven.
Jesus could have had sex (he is a man). I've heard that wicked men wanted to have sex with angels (Lot offered his daughter instead). I've not heard that we will be like the angels in heaven.
There is exactly as much (put it on your own scale) conclusive evidence for one side as there is for another. Don't look to me for the "Og View" --> I just heard a speculation that was advanced by a man.
Here's my point: We don't know. We need it to be revealed by God or to become willing to admit, "We don't really know."
I am saying that nephilim are produced by the interbreeding of the sons of God and the daughters of men.
I am saying that the practice of the father, breeding with the daughters was practiced in scripture as the example of Lot shows.
I am saying that the Nephilim don't reproduce, as they are a hybrid being.
JLB
You're correct. I should have asked "to what degree" is it relevant.
stovebolts
Member
Angels are created in the image of God? Really? You'll have to show me that.
A Donkey and a Horse are of the same "Kind", so of course they could breek and produce offspring.
Angels and Humans are not of the same "Kind"...
We both have the same scriptures to read. We simply disagree on the interpretation of said scriptures. So you see, it's not about what you read, but how you interpret what's been read.
Now then, I'm interested. Please show me where both Angels and Humans are created in the "Image" of God.
Let's start here. What is meant by "Image"?