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New Covenant

wavy

Member
A New Covenant (Jeremiah 31:31-34)

It's really heartbreaking that people use this scripture to disprove true torah keeping, when in fact, it's saying just the opposite. This may be insightful to you.

Let's take a look:

Jeremiah 31:31
Behold, the days come, saith יהוה, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

I want to stop here. This verse is very important. Sadly, the only words that are noticed by people in this verse are usually "new covenant". That's all people see, and then some assume this automatically connotes a different torah where we don't have to keep it the "old way". But there is something very important in this verse. There are two parties mentioned here: the house of Judah and the house of Israel. Notice how both divided houses are distinguished here from each other, as will be seen as significant later. This also rebukes any doctrine that "gentiles" as a separate entity from Israel as Yahweh's people are part of this covenant. Let us not add to the Word when the Word says no such thing. Those from the nations/gentiles can become a part of this covenant through Messiah, but as such, they are considered Israel.

Jeremiah 31:32
Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith יהוה:

What is this "not according to the covenant..." here? Many people only notice these words in this scripture too and assume it means that he doesn't require torah obedience anymore. As we will see, this has nothing to do with changing his laws or standard of conduct. This has to do with the method torah will be given this time. They were given on stone (and thus outside of the heart), through Moses (who broke the torah) from Mt Sinai in the wilderness. He's not going to do that this time. Torah is an aspect of the covenant, not the entire covenant itself. Continuing:

Jeremiah 31:33
But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith יהוה, I will put my torah in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their Elohim, and they shall be my people.

Once again, it is sad that most people look at "I will put my law in their inward parts and write it in their hearts", and then automatically - "see! that means that we keep only the moral laws now because the spirit tells us what to do! it's not about rules and regulations!"

Not only do they ignore the rest of the verse, which are equally important, and prove that more of the scripture should be read, but this idea is purely manmade and cannot be found in scripture. They look at it from and unlearned, non-Hebraic, biased viewpoint. Notice he only mentions the house of Israel when he says he will put his torah within them. Why does he do this, and why does he not include Judah? And why does he say he "will be their Elohim, and they shall be my people"? Is this just a random statement? According to many, it very much is. He says this for absolutely no reason. It's just a nice little vain addition to this verse.

But as we will explicitly prove, there is a reason only the house of Israel is mentioned in this verse, and there is a reason he says he "will be their Elohim, and they shall be my people". This covenant was made to redeem all Israel (both houses) from division and all former sin (not to change torah) and to bring both houses together in unity, which is what he is saying in the next verse:

Jeremiah 31:34
And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know יהוה: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith יהוה: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

Both houses will no longer be divided having to teach one another as brothers and neighbors (Judah will not have to teach Israel the torah and to know Yahweh for example, and Israel will not have to teach Judah about knowing Yahweh through Messiah) because both redeemed houses will know Yahweh and his torah. He will forgive all iniquity (torah-less-ness) and all sin and forget it (grace, as opposed to being “under law†– Romans 6:14).

But back to Jeremiah 31:33; what is that saying? Let's take a look at Hosea, the prophet to the ten northern tribes. This will clear everything up:

Hosea 1:9
Then said Elohim, Call his name Loammi: for ye are not my people, and I will not be your Elohim.
Hosea 1:10
Yet the number of the children of Israel shall be as the sand of the sea, which cannot be measured nor numbered; and it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people, there it shall be said unto them, Ye are the sons of the living Elohim.
Hosea 1:11
Then shall the children of Judah and the children of Israel be gathered together, and appoint themselves One Head, and they shall come up out of the land: for great shall be the day of Jezreel.

Now you're probably like, "What the hey?". Although I'd advise you to read the chapter, I will give you a briefing of what's going on.

Yahweh through Hosea is declaring the curses and idolatry of Ephraim Israel (ten northern tribes, or the house of Israel). He tells him to take a wife of "whoredoms" (symbolizing the sin of the house Israel). He is using this to typify the curses of Israel through Hosea and his wife's children (who represent the children of the house Israel as opposed to Judah)

His first child with this wife (who's name was "Gomer") was a boy Yahweh commanded to be called Yizre-El, or "Jezreel", as it reads in English. Yizre-El means "El will sow". El will sow what? The children of Israel scattered out in all nations (see the study, “The Gentiles of the New Testament†in "Wavy's Views").

Anyway, with the birth and naming of this child, Yahweh cursed the house of Israel with the cessation of their kingdom (Hosea 1:4-5).

The second child Hosea had by Gomer was a girl Yahweh commanded to be named Lo ruhamah, which means "no mercy". He said he would not have mercy on the children of Israel but would have mercy on the house of Judah (Hosea 1:6-7). This let's us know that the house of Judah and the house of Israel are not the same, and are not interchangeable terms in this context. Here is a curse of no mercy upon the house of Israel for their torah-less-ness.

Hosea's third child was commanded to be named Lo Ami, meaning "not my people". He tells us this in the verses above, saying that the children of the house of Israel are as the sand of the sea, and that one day, in the place where it was said "you are not my people" by Yahweh, it would be said to them "you are the children of the living Elohim".

I believe Messiah at his first advent declared the reversal of these curses starting at the beginning of Matthew 5 as the fulfillment of this prophecy. The last verse, Hosea 1:11, brings Jeremiah 31:31-34 to light. This covenant was made (the NT reveals to us it was put into effect by the blood of Messiah) to bring both divided and scattered houses of Israel and Judah together, and it allows Yahweh to be their husband again despite the curses from their torah-less-ness.

This is why Yahweh distinguishes the house of Israel from Judah in Jeremiah 31:33 and says what he said. He makes it clear that through this new covenant of redemption and restoration, he once again becomes their Elohim and they his people. He had to write the torah on their heart so they could do them, unlike before which is the reason they were cursed. Judah needs Messiah. He has torah and even foolishly thinks it will save him and that he can reject Messiah because of it (not realizing that Messiah is the goal of the torah – Romans 10:4)

Jeremiah 31:31-34 has absolutely nothing to do with changing laws or only requiring the "moral laws" of torah. Ezekiel makes what this means clear:

Ezekiel 36:26
A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
Ezekiel 36:27
And I will put my Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.
Ezekiel 36:28
And ye shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and ye shall be my people, and I will be your Elohim.

This is the reason Yahweh gives us a new heart and why he writes his torah on our heart by the Spirit: so we can perform his torah. Just for the "rules and regulations" sake? No. So we can just do what Yahweh said with a joyful, pure, obedient, repentant heart, and to be light to the world as his “workmanship†(Ephesians 2:10). This is how loving Yahweh with all heart/soul/mind/strength and loving our neighbor as ourselves is the basis of all the torah and prophets. Messiah affirms that they hang off of these two major commandments and do not replace them (Matthew 22:37-40).

This is how love fulfills the torah. Not that we redefine what right and wrong is based off of our manmade concept of "morale". Torah was always supposed to be on the heart. This is not a new concept. Yahweh said it through Moses long before Jeremiah or the New Testament was written:

Deuteronomy 6:6
And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart:

(One of the several correlations between the old and new covenants. Moses predicts the glory and the attitude of the redeemed nation under the new covenant, and commands it that day for it to happen then)

Deuteronomy 10:16
Circumcise therefore the foreskin of your heart, and be no more stiffnecked.


Deuteronomy 30:6
And יהוה thy Elohim will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love יהוה thy Elohim with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live.


(Long before Paul wrote Romans 2:29 or Colossians 2:11, we see this principle established in the torah by Moses)

Deuteronomy 30:10
If thou shalt hearken unto the voice of יהוה thy Elohim, to keep his commandments and his statutes which are written in this scroll of the torah, and if thou turn unto יהוה thy Elohim with all thine heart, and with all thy soul.
Deuteronomy 30:11
For this commandment which I command thee this day, it is not hidden from thee, neither is it far off.
Deuteronomy 30:12
It is not in heaven, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go up for us to heaven, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it?
Deuteronomy 30:13
Neither is it beyond the sea, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it?
Deuteronomy 30:14
But the Word is very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it.

This is the Spirit put in us by and through Messiah Yahshua. He is the "Word" that is "nigh" to us. Paul makes this clear in Romans 10:4-13 - another correlation. The New Covenant is for all Israel and all who would bless and “sojourn†with Israel, even as one born among them (Leviticus 19:33-34). Torah has been renewed through the gift of eternal life in Messiah, who redeems (Isaiah 47:4), restores (Jeremiah 30:17), gathers (Psalm 147:2), and marries (Hosea 2:20) all Israel to himself.


Peace and Love in Messiah
 
What........? :smt119 Huh......? :o I don't care how many verses you use to support your hypothesis......you are clearly wrong :smt018



actually, I enjoyed it..... :wink:
 
Wavy said:
It's really heartbreaking that people use this scripture to disprove true torah keeping, when in fact, it's saying just the opposite. This may be insightful to you.

Well Wavy it's really heartbreaking that you think people use this scripture to disprove true torah keeping, and there-by miss out on what God has provided. I do not use that scripture as you have implied, yet I disagree with you.
 
Windozer said:
Well Wavy it's really heartbreaking that you think people use this scripture to disprove true torah keeping, and there-by miss out on what God has provided. I do not use that scripture as you have implied, yet I disagree with you.

I know many Christians and many types of Christians with various forms of belief, Windozer.

Forgive me if you felt offended, but I meant the people who I know think this, not you. :-D
 
wavy said:
So...

Tell me why you disagree with me. I'm genuinely interested. :-D

Because having our focus on keeping the true Torah is not what will get me where he wanted me to go. He released me from that bondage at the cross so that I could become more than just a clean vessel, which is what we would be if it were possible to be sinless. (in the eyes of the world).

Being sinless (in the eyes of the world) would not equip me with what is necessary to be useful to him. He has used me in-spite of my warts.

You are one who has studied the Bible as thoroughly as you can, and in my opinion are able to understand what I have said. Therefore I have no desire to aspire to argue about this. This is simply part of my personal testimony, and I wish to leave it at that. :-D
 
Jer 31:31 and Heb. 8:8

Real simple - if you are a Jew and plan on going through the great tribulation and then on into the earthly kingdom promised to the nation of Israel then Jer. 31 and Heb. 8 will mean something to you.

But - if you are saved and in the body of Christ today then the above verses have absolutelyy no doctrinal significance to you whatsoever today.

Some of you folks have to decide whether you are in the body of Christ or a Jew preparing to go through the great tribulation and then find thoses books that deal with who you are. :-?

God bless
 
Re: Jer 31:31 and Heb. 8:8

AVBunyan said:
Real simple - if you are a Jew and plan on going through the great tribulation and then on into the earthly kingdom promised to the nation of Israel then Jer. 31 and Heb. 8 will mean something to you.

But - if you are saved and in the body of Christ today then the above verses have absolutelyy no doctrinal significance to you whatsoever today.

Some of you folks have to decide whether you are in the body of Christ or a Jew preparing to go through the great tribulation and then find thoses books that deal with who you are. :-?

God bless


2Tim.3
[16] ALL SCRIPTURE is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness,


Matt.15
[6] So, for the sake of your tradition, you have made void the word of God.

Mark.7
[13] thus making void the word of God through your tradition which you hand on. And many such things you do."
 
Okay, so lets really learn about Jerimiah 31:31-34....



JEHOVAH'S PROMISE
CONCERNING THE RESTORATION OF ISRAEL

(2)

Scripture Reading: Jer. 30â€â€31

In this message we will continue to consider Jehovah's promise concerning the restoration of Israel. We will focus our attention on the crucial matter of the new covenant.

VII. JEHOVAH, AS THEIR HUSBAND,
MAKING A NEW COVENANT WITH ISRAEL

Jeremiah 31:31-34 reveals that Jehovah, as their Husband, will make a new covenant with Israel. "Behold, days are coming, declares Jehovah, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah, not like the covenant which I made with their fathers in the day I took them by their hand to bring them out from the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, although I was their Husband, declares Jehovah" (vv. 31-32). This new covenant was enacted by the Lord Jesus when He was about to die on the cross for the accomplishment of redemption. As He was instituting His supper, He said, "This cup is the new covenant established in My blood, which is being poured out for you" (Luke 22:20). No doubt, the new covenant here is the new covenant spoken of in Jeremiah 31:31. This new covenant is emphasized by Paul in Hebrews 8, where he quotes Jeremiah 31 in a very particular way.

In the entire Bible God made eight covenants with man, seven in the Old Testament and one in the New Testament. The first was God's covenant with the created man (Gen. 2:8-9, 15-17), and the second was His covenant with fallen man (3:8-21). After the flood, God made a covenant with Noah (9:1-17). Later, God made a covenant with Abraham (12:2-3, 7-8; 15:4-18; 17:1-2; 22:17-18), and this covenant was repeated with Isaac (26:3-5) and with Jacob (28:13-15). The fifth covenant was made with the children of Israel at Mount Sinai (Exo. 20â€â€23); the sixth was made with those who were to inherit the land (Deut. 28â€â€29); and the seventh was made with David (2 Sam. 7:8-16). The eighth covenant is the new covenant.

In the Bible, however, only two of these covenants are designated by numbers. The covenant made with Israel at Mount Sinai is called the first covenant (Heb. 8:7, 13; 9:1), and the new covenant is called the second covenant (Heb. 8:7). After the new covenant, God will not make any other covenants, for the new covenant is the consummation of God's covenanting with His people.

The first covenant is called the covenant of law, and the second covenant is altogether wrapped up with God's divinity. The law is a portrait, a picture, of God, depicting Him. But the law is not God Himself. The Ten Commandments give us a full portrait of what God is, but they do not give us the person of God. In contrast, the content of the new covenant is God Himself.


A. Jehovah Putting His Law within Them
and Writing It upon Their Hearts

The first item of the new covenant is found in Jeremiah 31:33a. "This is the covenant which I will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares Jehovah: I will put My law within them and write it upon their hearts." What kind of law can be put into people and be written upon their hearts? Such a law must be a law of life, and this law itself must be a life. Otherwise, it could not be put into us. Furthermore, this law will be written upon our hearts, indicating that it will spread from the center of our being, our spirit, to the circumference, our heart. Thus, this law must be God's life, the divine life, and God's life is God Himself. In the new covenant God will put Himself into His chosen people as their life, and this life is a law.

Every life is a law. For example, the dog life is the dog law, and the bird life is the bird law. Likewise, the life of the peach tree is the law of the peach tree. The principle is the same with human beings. As human beings we have a human life, and this human life is a law that regulates us in every way. In particular, the law of the human life regulates the growth and development of a human being and causes all the parts of one's body to be in the right place and to function in the right way.

God's life is the highest life, and the law of this life is the highest law. The New Testament calls this life eternal life, a life that is divine, uncreated, and indestructible. This eternal life is embodied in Christ (1 John 5:11), and it is actually Christ Himself (John 14:6). The law of this life is wrapped up with the life-giving Spirit, who in Romans 8:2 is called "the Spirit of life." Hence, God, Christ, and the Spirit are this life, and through our regeneration this life is now within us to function as a law to us. This law is righteous and holy, and it is a law of love and of light. Because the eternal life within us is a law, it controls, governs, regulates, and restricts us in everything. What a marvelous law we have within us!

The law of life within us is for God's economy. Without giving us His life as the inner law, God has no way to accomplish His economy. God's economy is to dispense Himself into our being that our being may be constituted with His being to be one constitution with His being. This can be accomplished only by God putting Himself into us as the divine life.

Today hardly any Christians pay attention to the divine life as the inner law. Where can you hear a word about this in the Catholic Church, in the Orthodox Church, or in the Protestant denominations? Even the Brethren speak of this only in a very limited way. In Pentecostalism there is much interest in outward things but not in the inner law of life. In the Lord's recovery, however, we place great emphasis on eternal life and on the inner law as the function of this life.

The divine life has a function, and with this function there is a capacity, an ability. We can be holy because we have the capacity of holiness. We can be righteous because we have the capacity of righteousness. We can love others, even our enemies, because the divine life within us has the capacity to love.

The teachings in the New Testament are just to develop this capacity, to encourage this capacity to grow. Likewise, all the messages given by this ministry are to strengthen and develop the divine life in its capacity for its function. The goal of this function is for God to dispense Himself into us to accomplish His economy, that is, to produce the increase of God for His expression, which will consummate in the New Jerusalem.


B. Jehovah Being Their God,
and They Being His People

In Jeremiah 31:33b we see the second item of the new covenant. "I will be their God, and they will be My people." From the time we were saved, we have had the desire that God would be our God. For God to be our God implies a great deal. This means that He will be known by us, understood by us, apprehended by us, and lived by us. It also means that we will be constituted with Him to be utterly one with Him.

C. They No Longer Teaching
Each Man His Neighbor
and Each Man His Brother,
for All of Them Will Know Him

"They will no longer teach, each man his neighbor and each man his brother, saying, Know Jehovah; for all of them will know Me, from the little one among them even to the great one among them, declares Jehovah" (v. 34a). This word indicates that we will know God to such an extent that we will not need anyone to teach us.

When I was a young Christian, I had a problem with this verse. I did not understand how we could do without teaching. Eventually I began to see that this word about knowing God and not needing others to teach us is related to the spontaneous, automatic function of the divine life within us. As an illustration, let us suppose that a child is given two different things to taste, something bitter and something sweet. The child will automatically reject what is bitter and receive and enjoy what is sweet. This reaction is a matter not of teaching but of taste. By the sense of taste, which is an aspect of the function of human life, the child knows to reject what is bitter and to receive what is sweet. The proper teaching the child receives regarding the sense of taste will serve to develop, but not to replace, the life capacity within the child.

The principle is the same with knowing God through the function of the divine life, the eternal life, within us. Eternal life has a special function, and this function is to know God (John 17:3). To know God, the divine person, we need the divine life with its function. Eventually, there will be no need for outward teachings, for we will know God by the function of the divine life.

No religion on earth can replace the new covenant or even compare with it. Confucius and Socrates were good, but they could not put themselves into their followers as life. Only Jesus Christ as the embodiment of God can do this. Throughout the centuries He has put His life into millions of persons. As believers, we all have received His eternal life. This is indicated strongly in John 3:16. "God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that every one who believes into Him would not perish, but would have eternal life." By believing into Christ we have received eternal life, the divine life. This divine life is the centrality and universality of our Christian life. This life is nothing less than Christ Himself, and Christ is the very God. Since we have God within us as life, we can know Him, apprehend Him, live Him, and be constituted with Him. Furthermore, by dispensing Himself into us as life, God is accomplishing His economy, that He may have a corporate expression of Himself for eternity.

Today we know Christ as our life (Col. 3:4). He is the divine life, the eternal life, the uncreated life, the life that is all-inclusive. Because we know the divine life, we can experience the divine dispensingâ€â€God's dispensing Himself into us that we may become His increase, His enlargement, for His expression. This is God's intention, God's goal, God's purpose, God's economy with His dear dispensing.

The Triune God has been processed and consummated in order to dispense Himself into our being. Now, through this dispensing, we have the capacity to know God and to be His people.


Taken from the Lifestudy of the Bible, published by Living Stream Ministry.

see here for more.... http://www.ministrybooks.org/life-studies.html


Hope you all enjoyed the above, let me know if you want some more of this wonderful speaking regarding God and His new covenant.


In love,
cj
 
Cj,

I do believe you are supposed to site your source. That is unless you wrote it yourself, which I doudt. I do believe it is a violation of federal law to copy information from a copyrited site without proper credits.
 
Thessalonian said:
Cj,

I do believe you are supposed to site your source. That is unless you wrote it yourself, which I doudt. I do believe it is a violation of federal law to copy information from a copyrited site without proper credits.

Done.



But allow me to say how impressed I am with your believing.



And the fact that you have not placed me on ignore as you said you would.

:D


In love

cj
 
I think I agree with you CJ,

What you have said can be summed up with the following.

We are encouraged in the New Testament to die to self. The reason for that is so that we can exchange our old life for the life of Jesus.

The only way that we can be righteous is to receive the exchanged life, and that happens in degrees.

The more we are able to die to ones self (That is get ourselves out of the way) The more righteous (useful) we will become to him.
 
But allow me to say how impressed I am with your believing.

Believing what? Your article. It's a mixed bag as all protestant theology is. Truth mixed with error. Of course we know that is what Adam and Eve were given in the garden by the serpant.

I put you on ignore for a while. I may put you back.
 
Thessalonian said:
Believing what? Your article. It's a mixed bag as all protestant theology is. Truth mixed with error. Of course we know that is what Adam and Eve were given in the garden by the serpant.

I put you on ignore for a while. I may put you back.

Relax silly-billy, in your short statement you used the phrase "I do believe" twice, and I thought it was worth pointing out,... in all light-heratedness.


But, concerning "mixed-bag" theology, I acquiesce to your expert knowledge, gained for your many years of experience and association to the RC institution and its most perfect of all "mixed-bag" falsehoods.

I did not present the above as mine, for it isn't, I just agree with it and love the simplicity of its explanation.


The bible declares that none of us know the complete truth, so who am I to say what is and what isn't.

And for that matter, who are you to attempt to do it.

I just present what I believe is in the Lord, it is for others to make up theri own minds regarding it.


In love,
cj
 
The bible declares that none of us know the complete truth, so who am I to say what is and what isn't.


This is a straw man. The issue is not whether we have an all encompassing knowledge of the truth. The issue is whether we can be taught the fullness of the truth and whether we can tell if something is truth or error. Quite clearly the Bible says yes to both of these. "you shall know the truth and the truth shall set you free". "Those who worship me MUST worship in spirit and in truth". "You know the truth". Shall I quote more.
 
Re: Jer 31:31 and Heb. 8:8

AVBunyan said:
Real simple - if you are a Jew and plan on going through the great tribulation and then on into the earthly kingdom promised to the nation of Israel then Jer. 31 and Heb. 8 will mean something to you.

But - if you are saved and in the body of Christ today then the above verses have absolutelyy no doctrinal significance to you whatsoever today.

Some of you folks have to decide whether you are in the body of Christ or a Jew preparing to go through the great tribulation and then find thoses books that deal with who you are. :-?

God bless

I second Thessalonian on this one and would like to add my $0.02:

Hebrews 3:1
Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, ha Mashiach יהושׁע;


Partakers of a heavenly calling, not an "earthly" one.


Hebrews 10:34 For ye had compassion of me in my bonds, and took joyfully the spoiling of your goods, knowing in yourselves that ye have in heaven a better and an enduring substance.


We have substance in heaven.


Hebrews 11:16 But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore יהוה is not ashamed to be called their Elohim: for he hath prepared for them a city.


The fathers of Israel in this "hall of fame honor role" will be rewarded with the heavenly Yahrushalayhim.


Hebrews 12:22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living Elohim, the heavenly Yahrusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,
Hebrews 12:23 To the general assembly and ekklesia of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to יהוה the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,


Our destiny is heaven (in the new heavens and new earth made one).

I'd also like to know what covenant is this "heavenly church" under? Obviously not the covenant of Jeremiah repeated in Hebrews...
 
Like I said - it appears some of you folks want to be a Jew so bad you take what was promised to them and seek to doctrinally apply them to you today - this equates to confusion.

Until some of you folks get it settled that God deals with Israel as a nation differently than he deals with the body of Christ you will continue to create confusion on these forums. :-?

Of course you must first see the uniqueness of the body of Christ.

I'll say it again - the least read and least understood book today and yet the most needed is the epistle to the Ephesians.

God bless 8-)
 
I repeat myself, AV:

wavy said:
I second Thessalonian on this one and would like to add my $0.02:

Hebrews 3:1
Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, ha Mashiach יהושׁע;


Partakers of a heavenly calling, not an "earthly" one.


Hebrews 10:34 For ye had compassion of me in my bonds, and took joyfully the spoiling of your goods, knowing in yourselves that ye have in heaven a better and an enduring substance.


We have substance in heaven.


Hebrews 11:16 But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore יהוה is not ashamed to be called their Elohim: for he hath prepared for them a city.


The fathers of Israel in this "hall of fame honor role" will be rewarded with the heavenly Yahrushalayhim.


Hebrews 12:22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living Elohim, the heavenly Yahrusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,
Hebrews 12:23 To the general assembly and ekklesia of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to יהוה the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,


Our destiny is heaven (in the new heavens and new earth made one).

I'd also like to know what covenant is this "heavenly church" under? Obviously not the covenant of Jeremiah repeated in Hebrews...


AVBunyan said:
I'll say it again - the least read and least understood book today and yet the most needed is the epistle to the Ephesians.

Well, this varies with opinion. What you said here is an opinion based off of what you already believe. Thus it is not a proven fact or scriptural truth, rather. And you have to prove it.
 
AVBunyan said:
Like I said - it appears some of you folks want to be a Jew so bad you take what was promised to them and seek to doctrinally apply them to you today - this equates to confusion.

Until some of you folks get it settled that God deals with Israel as a nation differently than he deals with the body of Christ you will continue to create confusion on these forums. :-?

Of course you must first see the uniqueness of the body of Christ.

I'll say it again - the least read and least understood book today and yet the most needed is the epistle to the Ephesians.

God bless 8-)

That's a nice little speach AV. Now can you tell me why Paul says "ALL SCRIPTURE is useful for correction....". Why is it in the context of the old testament:

[14] But as for you, continue in what you have learned and have firmly believed, knowing from whom you learned it
[15] and how from childhood you have been acquainted with the sacred writings which are able to instruct you for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus.

AV says, not the Old Testament Paul, your wrong. But isn't the NT he is talking about dude. It hadn't been written yet or at least not all of it. No matter. He says "ALL SCRIPTURE" so unless the OT isn't scripture you have no case.

[16] All scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness,
[17] that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work.

It even appears that Timothy was a Jew, not a gentile. Yet I'll bet my bottom dollar you put Pauls words to him in the basket with your new covenant church (and rightly so). There is only one gospel. But the OT does shed light on that Gospel. The Jews did not have the fullness of the Gospel but they lived under the Gospel waiting in anticipation of Jesus Christ, his life, death, and resurrection. This idea that Jesus didn't preach the Gospel is so ludicris it brings me to tears. Nullify the word of God and make it void all you like to your judgement.
 
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