Growth New Testament Greek for free

[Anto9us2]

I started out with Machen' s text, Oz, at a small Methodist university with only six guy's in the class.
I transferred to Baylor, audited the first two semesters again, then was in a class of 90 BAPTISTS as the only Methodist, using Dr Richard Cutters own text.

The text for this Australian course, I hope it doesn't have to be shipped from Australia. I will see.

 

[GodsGrace]

wondering,

Thank you for your encouragement re my homepage, Truth Challenge.

I use commentaries because I regard commentators as God's teachers. However, all of them must have their teaching strained through Acts 17:11 sieve.

I think what you do in comparing translations is an excellent way to gain a better understanding of words and context. We had an interesting discussion around the phrase, 'spirits in prison', 1 Peter 3:19 in the Bible study I lead this morning. Comparing various translations was helpful but not definitive in reaching a conclusion.

I'll be developing this material into an article for the homepage when I get the time.

Oz

I remember that you were going to work on this verse.
I don't know if anyone could know for sure who the spirits in prison are...it seems like each idea has its reasons for it to be denied.

I used to think it was Hades...Luke 16.
Then I thought it might be those before Noah's flood...
But why would they be given a second chance and not others...
It certainly can't be those in hell since their fate is sealed.

I look forward to your study....
Perhaps you could start a thread on it once you're done?

 

[Edward]

How true.

"God does not call the equipped....
He equips the called..."

He does! And in this instance I call it https://www.blueletterbible.org/ because I probably could not learn a 2nd spoken language now either. But this BLB site, you type in your chapter and select a version, KJV or whatever and then it takes you right to the chapter then you select a verse and it takes you there and from there you can mouse over each in individual word and it takes you right to the Greek or Hebrew for that word and provides the alternate definitions and uses for the word. Many times it shines light upon what was read, by applying an alternate definition to the word in question which sometimes reveals a...different meaning to the passages interpretation that are commonly preached by the corporate church. More truth and without having to learn a new language!

So, He has equipped us and there will be no excuses on that day!

 

[jasonc]

I remember that you were going to work on this verse.
I don't know if anyone could know for sure who the spirits in prison are...it seems like each idea has its reasons for it to be denied.

I used to think it was Hades...Luke 16.
Then I thought it might be those before Noah's flood...
But why would they be given a second chance and not others...
It certainly can't be those in hell since their fate is sealed.

I look forward to your study....
Perhaps you could start a thread on it once you're done?

Sheol as Jesus would have said it or peter if speaking to Jews.Hades,sheol ,that's another thread,it helps to understand the Greek myths on Hades ,koine Greek was a subject of a fellow soldier ,she took it and was taught to speak it.they used the bible and the classics to teach it.ie homer

 

[OzSpen]

I started out with Machen' s text, Oz, at a small Methodist university with only six guy's in the class.
I transferred to Baylor, audited the first two semesters again, then was in a class of 90 BAPTISTS as the only Methodist, using Dr Richard Cutters own text.

The text for this Australian course, I hope it doesn't have to be shipped from Australia. I will see.

Anto9,

The text, Elements of New Testament Greek, by Jeremy Duff is freely available in the USA:

1. Amazon,
2. Christianbook,
3. Book Depository in UK (free delivery worldwide),
4. Barnes & Noble (free shipping in USA).
5. Etc.

It's freely available in the USA. The paperback edition is within my price bracket but not the hard cover edition. However, I must say my paperback edition is very worn after 44 years of use.

Oz

 

[OzSpen]

I remember that you were going to work on this verse.
I don't know if anyone could know for sure who the spirits in prison are...it seems like each idea has its reasons for it to be denied.

I used to think it was Hades...Luke 16.
Then I thought it might be those before Noah's flood...
But why would they be given a second chance and not others...
It certainly can't be those in hell since their fate is sealed.

I look forward to your study....
Perhaps you could start a thread on it once you're done?

wondering,

To get you thinking:

1. Who were the spirits - angels or departed human beings?
2. What was the proclamation by Jesus? The Gospel or something else?
3. What was the nature of the prison?

Oz

 

[Anto9us2]

Thanks, Oz!

 

[GodsGrace]

wondering,

To get you thinking:

1. Who were the spirits - angels or departed human beings?
2. What was the proclamation by Jesus? The Gospel or something else?
3. What was the nature of the prison?

Oz

To answer your questions, as I understand:

1. Who were the spirits - angels or departed human beings?
It had to be departed human beings...angels do not get judged because they're already where they are supposed to be,,,in heaven or in hell.

2. What was proclaimed by Jesus, the gospel or something else?
The gospel was proclaimed.

3. What was the nature of the prison?
I don't know...I'd have to read bibles again and it won't help me too much. I just remember that it speaks about Noah's time.

Will await your reply.

 

[GodsGrace]

He does! And in this instance I call it https://www.blueletterbible.org/ because I probably could not learn a 2nd spoken language now either. But this BLB site, you type in your chapter and select a version, KJV or whatever and then it takes you right to the chapter then you select a verse and it takes you there and from there you can mouse over each in individual word and it takes you right to the Greek or Hebrew for that word and provides the alternate definitions and uses for the word. Many times it shines light upon what was read, by applying an alternate definition to the word in question which sometimes reveals a...different meaning to the passages interpretation that are commonly preached by the corporate church. More truth and without having to learn a new language!

So, He has equipped us and there will be no excuses on that day!

Thanks Ed,,,but knowing other languages, I know this does not really work....as OzSpen has stated, there are nuances in other languages that are lost in the English.

The way the lexicons translate a word is the same as in the bible....I don't believe it's any better. I have used this method on a very few occasions but don't find it very helpful.

I believe our bibles have been translated well and don't think too much about this...I know I'm missing something but it doesn't worry me.

Don't you think we should be looking at the "concepts" Jesus wanted to teach and not get stuck on every single word? There used to be a member here that could argue a word for pages. I'm not sure Jesus words are remembered in that way. Do you?

 

[GodsGrace]

I started out with Machen' s text, Oz, at a small Methodist university with only six guy's in the class.
I transferred to Baylor, audited the first two semesters again, then was in a class of 90 BAPTISTS as the only Methodist, using Dr Richard Cutters own text.

The text for this Australian course, I hope it doesn't have to be shipped from Australia. I will see.

You found this helpful in understanding the bible?

 

[GodsGrace]

Sheol as Jesus would have said it or peter if speaking to Jews.Hades,sheol ,that's another thread,it helps to understand the Greek myths on Hades ,koine Greek was a subject of a fellow soldier ,she took it and was taught to speak it.they used the bible and the classics to teach it.ie homer

Hades is in Luke 16.
Sheoul is the place of the dead....Not all in the O.T. believed in life after death...the Sanhedrin certainly didn't.
Right?

 

[Anto9us2]

Sure, I found it helpful in understanding the Bible, wondering.

Saved at 19, I started really reading the Bible and studying Koine Greek right afterward.

BlueLetterBible.org that Edward mentioned, I use that daily, to look at Greek which I have studied, and Hebrew that I have never studied. Also use BlueletterBible to compare English translations, see what a verse is in various different Bibles...

We have a Barnes and Nobles in town, Oz, they can probably get me the paperback version of that Greek textbook

 

[OzSpen]

To answer your questions, as I understand:

1. Who were the spirits - angels or departed human beings?
It had to be departed human beings...angels do not get judged because they're already where they are supposed to be,,,in heaven or in hell.

2. What was proclaimed by Jesus, the gospel or something else?
The gospel was proclaimed.

3. What was the nature of the prison?
I don't know...I'd have to read bibles again and it won't help me too much. I just remember that it speaks about Noah's time.

Will await your reply.

wondering,

Responding to #2. Since you believe the 'spirits' are those of departed human beings (your answer to #1), do you believe the Bible teaches in 1 Pet 3:19 that unbelieving human beings who are now spirits will be given a second chance of salvation?

Oz

 

[jasonc]

Hades is in Luke 16.
Sheoul is the place of the dead....Not all in the O.T. believed in life after death...the Sanhedrin certainly didn't.
Right?

Sheol has the view of both righteous and unrighteous ,you do know gehanna is greek for ginhimmon,

Sheol was taught by the Pharisees,and essenes.

Paradise was a teaching as well called gan Eden ,the final place for man with God,the things I learned when i buried my uncle,grandparents.

If you doubt that Hades is as I say what going was Jesus using in public?Aramaic ,in,the temple He used Hebrew .neither tongues use the place for the dead as Hades.

Hades ,the god of the underworld ,the place where he dwelled,it has levels ,a river to pass and also the Elysium fields,the tartarus for the most wicked.

Sheol in Hebrew teaching,to leave it you crossed the river Jordan,it had levels,it had a area for the righteous,the most wicked at lower levels ,and the kaddish,it was around in Jesus day and the cc borrowed that year long prayer for the idea of purgatory .Jewish thought on sheol is by large a prison .

I'm not suggesting all that was taught by the rabbis is right but given how close sheol is to Hades its why I posted this .

I believe that sheol is emptied and the damned in it where placed into Hades but not all of the dead are there ,the sea and the grave will be poured into the lake of fire ,even in judaism ,gin himmon is close to what Christians say.

Gan Eden ,that is to be found in revelation 5 and also 22.
These deserve another thread

 

[Anto9us2]

Sanhedrin was split between Pharisees who believed in angels and resurrection, and Sadducees who did not believe in resurrection or angels. These two widely disparate sects jointly administered Sanhedrin, bizarre as that seems.

 

[OzSpen]

Sure, I found it helpful in understanding the Bible, wondering.

Saved at 19, I started really reading the Bible and studying Koine Greek right afterward.

BlueLetterBible.org that Edward mentioned, I use that daily, to look at Greek which I have studied, and Hebrew that I have never studied. Also use BlueletterBible to compare English translations, see what a verse is in various different Bibles...

We have a Barnes and Nobles in town, Oz, they can probably get me the paperback version of that Greek textbook

Make sure you get the third edition by Jeremy Duff, Elements of New Testament Greek. Because it is published by Cambridge University Press, even the paperback edition is quite expensive. I find Oxford University Press even worse with its high prices.

 

[GodsGrace]

Sheol has the view of both righteous and unrighteous ,you do know gehanna is greek for ginhimmon,

Sheol was taught by the Pharisees,and essenes.

Paradise was a teaching as well called gan Eden ,the final place for man with God,the things I learned when i buried my uncle,grandparents.

If you doubt that Hades is as I say what going was Jesus using in public?Aramaic ,in,the temple He used Hebrew .neither tongues use the place for the dead as Hades.

Hades ,the god of the underworld ,the place where he dwelled,it has levels ,a river to pass and also the Elysium fields,the tartarus for the most wicked.

Sheol in Hebrew teaching,to leave it you crossed the river Jordan,it had levels,it had a area for the righteous,the most wicked at lower levels ,and the kaddish,it was around in Jesus day and the cc borrowed that year long prayer for the idea of purgatory .Jewish thought on sheol is by large a prison .

I'm not suggesting all that was taught by the rabbis is right but given how close sheol is to Hades its why I posted this .

I believe that sheol is emptied and the damned in it where placed into Hades but not all of the dead are there ,the sea and the grave will be poured into the lake of fire ,even in judaism ,gin himmon is close to what Christians say.

Gan Eden ,that is to be found in revelation 5 and also 22.
These deserve another thread

I agree...it should have a thread.
I'll remember...but not now.

 

[jasonc]

Sanhedrin was split between Pharisees who believed in angels and resurrection, and Sadducees who did not believe in resurrection or angels. These two widely disparate sects jointly administered Sanhedrin, bizarre as that seems.

Lawyers who neither and the essences did have members ,see the accounts of Joseph us who was an essence who surrendered and loved by the Romans so much they used him for an intrepration .

 

[OzSpen]

Sheol has the view of both righteous and unrighteous ,you do know gehanna is greek for ginhimmon,

Sheol was taught by the Pharisees,and essenes.

Paradise was a teaching as well called gan Eden ,the final place for man with God,the things I learned when i buried my uncle,grandparents.

If you doubt that Hades is as I say what going was Jesus using in public?Aramaic ,in,the temple He used Hebrew .neither tongues use the place for the dead as Hades.

Hades ,the god of the underworld ,the place where he dwelled,it has levels ,a river to pass and also the Elysium fields,the tartarus for the most wicked.

Sheol in Hebrew teaching,to leave it you crossed the river Jordan,it had levels,it had a area for the righteous,the most wicked at lower levels ,and the kaddish,it was around in Jesus day and the cc borrowed that year long prayer for the idea of purgatory .Jewish thought on sheol is by large a prison .

I'm not suggesting all that was taught by the rabbis is right but given how close sheol is to Hades its why I posted this .

I believe that sheol is emptied and the damned in it where placed into Hades but not all of the dead are there ,the sea and the grave will be poured into the lake of fire ,even in judaism ,gin himmon is close to what Christians say.

Gan Eden ,that is to be found in revelation 5 and also 22.
These deserve another thread

Jason,

The Greek Septuagint (LXX) translated the Hebrew Sheol of the OT as Hades.

Here is a brief article explaining details, including the meaning:
Sheol is translated as Hades.

Oz

 

[Anto9us2]

I always thought "preached to the spirits in prison" was related to the "righteous" people in the "Abraham's Bosom" side of the Hades that was then, that described in parable in Luke 16.

I thought these souls were taken to Heaven after the Cross, which has been called "The Harrowing of Hell".

I don't know why Jesus would preach to those souls in "Torments" (Tartarus) - I always thought they just stayed in Hades where they were.