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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
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Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
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Depending upon the Holy Spirit for all you do?
Read through the following study by Tenchi for more on this topic
https://christianforums.net/threads/without-the-holy-spirit-we-can-do-nothing.109419/
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How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
Join Sola Scriptura for a discussion on the subject
https://christianforums.net/threads/anointed-preaching-teaching.109331/#post-1912042
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^^^
Stormcrow
Member
That's the point I was trying to make. Thanks for clarifying it. Hades is the Greek word used in the NT to describes the Hebrew idea of Sheol in the Old.
While the Greek word "Tartarus" is not in the NT, the idea of a place of eternal torment reserved for the devil and his angels (lake of fire) is consistent with the idea of a place reserved for the vanquished Titans in Greek mythology.
What is interesting in all of this is that John uses the proper Greek noun "Thanatos" (also here) in Revelation 6:8 as the name for death. His name is the root for the word "euthanasia."
Understanding the culture of the time is necessary to understand what the writers of the NT were trying to convey. A large part of that culture was Hellenistic.
stovebolts
Member
Hi Stormcrow, good to talk with you.
Actually, Tartarus is used once in the NT.
2 Peter 2:4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to Tartarus, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;
That's an interesting observation on Rev 6:8
Interestingly enough, we see that both death and hades are thrown into the lake of fire.
We know that Tartarus is contained within Hades, so I believe the original readers who were familiar with the culture would have automatically knew that Tartarus would also end up in the lake of fire since it was part of Hades dominion.
Your close though. Most people don't have a grasp on the cultural aspect. It's actually nice to talk, and not argue with somebody about this!
Actually, Tartarus is used once in the NT.
2 Peter 2:4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to Tartarus, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;
That's an interesting observation on Rev 6:8
Interestingly enough, we see that both death and hades are thrown into the lake of fire.
We know that Tartarus is contained within Hades, so I believe the original readers who were familiar with the culture would have automatically knew that Tartarus would also end up in the lake of fire since it was part of Hades dominion.
Your close though. Most people don't have a grasp on the cultural aspect. It's actually nice to talk, and not argue with somebody about this!
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Elijah674
Guest
2 Peter 2
[4] For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;
[5] And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly;
[6] And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly;
[7] And delivered just Lot, vexed with the filthy conversation of the wicked:
[8] (For that righteous man dwelling among them, in seeing and hearing, vexed his righteous soul from day to day with their unlawful deeds;)
[9] The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:
None of these are in hell/fire yet. But verse 4 is kind of hard to understand being alone. '..but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;'
And sure folks are given the right to their understanding by God. And I see this uncreated earth before creation & demolished earth once again as satan's temporiarly desolate hell once again. (or chains of darkness)
Jer. 4 has it said this way...
[22] For my people is foolish, they have not known me; they are sottish children, and they have none understanding: they are wise to do evil, but to do good they have no knowledge.
[23] I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light.
[24] I beheld the mountains, and, lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly.
[25] I beheld, and, lo, there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled.
[26] I beheld, and, lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the LORD, and by his fierce anger.
[27] For thus hath the LORD said, The whole land shall be desolate; yet will I not make a full end.
OK: When Christ comes the Second Bodily time the earth will again be desolate. The wiched will all be slain dead (2 Thess. 2:8) while the righteous dead arise with the righteous still alive with Christ. And will not return to earth again until the wicked are judged for their hell's Execution.(1 Cor. 6:2-3)
Verse 26 above sounds like Rev. 20:1-4 does it not? And ...
2 Peter 2
[4] For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;
And judgement must preclude the fatal final fires of hell. But not yet! Nor is it all Finished yet, as Christ is still even our High Priest. And still will be for many others hopefully!
--Elijah
PS: Lets just add Rev. 20
[1] And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
[2] And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
[3] And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
[4] And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
[4] For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;
[5] And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly;
[6] And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly;
[7] And delivered just Lot, vexed with the filthy conversation of the wicked:
[8] (For that righteous man dwelling among them, in seeing and hearing, vexed his righteous soul from day to day with their unlawful deeds;)
[9] The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:
None of these are in hell/fire yet. But verse 4 is kind of hard to understand being alone. '..but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;'
And sure folks are given the right to their understanding by God. And I see this uncreated earth before creation & demolished earth once again as satan's temporiarly desolate hell once again. (or chains of darkness)
Jer. 4 has it said this way...
[22] For my people is foolish, they have not known me; they are sottish children, and they have none understanding: they are wise to do evil, but to do good they have no knowledge.
[23] I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light.
[24] I beheld the mountains, and, lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly.
[25] I beheld, and, lo, there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled.
[26] I beheld, and, lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the LORD, and by his fierce anger.
[27] For thus hath the LORD said, The whole land shall be desolate; yet will I not make a full end.
OK: When Christ comes the Second Bodily time the earth will again be desolate. The wiched will all be slain dead (2 Thess. 2:8) while the righteous dead arise with the righteous still alive with Christ. And will not return to earth again until the wicked are judged for their hell's Execution.(1 Cor. 6:2-3)
Verse 26 above sounds like Rev. 20:1-4 does it not? And ...
2 Peter 2
[4] For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;
And judgement must preclude the fatal final fires of hell. But not yet! Nor is it all Finished yet, as Christ is still even our High Priest. And still will be for many others hopefully!
--Elijah
PS: Lets just add Rev. 20
[1] And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
[2] And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
[3] And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
[4] And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
Pard
Member
I have not done any study on it, though I have some speculation as to the answer (from a general knowledge), but the question does come to mind, not so much from my own doubt, but from an anticipation of what others have and will say...
The question is: Why does the OT not speak of hell in the same manner as the NT?
To which my general knowledge answer would be:
The OT writings are very much a means to pave the road for Christ. They are a justification of Christ, a means to validate His claim, to understand His sacrifice, and to understand His gift. The OT was too busy with such important as ensuring Christ's coming that matters such as eternal hell were a bit trivial because as it stood, that was pretty much everyone's destination.
Now in the NT the OT infrastructure is set in place for Christ and now He may preach on the coming of the new Kingdom. And oddly, or interestingly really, enough when you view the OT in light of the NT (as one should, why would you look at a dark thing int he dark when you have a flashlight in your hand?) the message that hell is a real and eternal place does actually come to the surface.
The question is: Why does the OT not speak of hell in the same manner as the NT?
To which my general knowledge answer would be:
The OT writings are very much a means to pave the road for Christ. They are a justification of Christ, a means to validate His claim, to understand His sacrifice, and to understand His gift. The OT was too busy with such important as ensuring Christ's coming that matters such as eternal hell were a bit trivial because as it stood, that was pretty much everyone's destination.
Now in the NT the OT infrastructure is set in place for Christ and now He may preach on the coming of the new Kingdom. And oddly, or interestingly really, enough when you view the OT in light of the NT (as one should, why would you look at a dark thing int he dark when you have a flashlight in your hand?) the message that hell is a real and eternal place does actually come to the surface.
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Elijah674
Guest
Me again: Rev. 21:8
[7] He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.
[8] But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
The wicked will die a Second Death, it says. and it is called a lake of fire. 'fire & brimstone'!
It seems that what God has decreed thus far is as is documented by His Inspiration of 1 Cor. 14:32 that the 'spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets.'!
And Gen. 19:24-28
[24] Then the LORD rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the LORD out of heaven;
[25] And he overthrew those cities, and all the plain, and all the inhabitants of the cities, and that which grew upon the ground.
[26] But his wife looked back from behind him, and she became a pillar of salt.
[27] And Abraham gat up early in the morning to the place where he stood before the LORD:
[28] And he looked toward Sodom and Gomorrah, and toward all the land of the plain, and beheld, and, lo, the [smoke of the country went up as the smoke] of a furnace.
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Elijah674
Guest
Gen. 3 has both God speaking & satan.
Gen. 3
[1] Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?
[2] And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:
[3] But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.
[4] And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:
And which do most all still believe after 6000 years? (and remember that this lie of satan was before the plan of Salvation was brought forth!)
Note that God through the Holy Spirit has his Holy men use these words in describing the fate of man. (and remember that 1 Cor. 13 has it that ALL the spirits of the prophets are SUBJECT to the prophets!)
1. ‘Suffer DEATH’ Rom. 6:23
2. Will suffer ‘DESTRUCTION’ Job 21:30
3. ‘Shall Perish’ Psalms 37:20
4. will ‘BURN ‘ up. And become ashes! Mal. 4:1
5. ‘shall be destroyed together’ Psalms 37:38
6. will ‘CONSUME AWAY’ Psalms 37:20
7. ‘FIRE SHALL DEVOUR THEM.’ Psalms 21:9
And No. 8 for these of the Heb. 6:1-6 ones? those who had been Born Again, and were Made PARTAKERS of the Holy Ghost, & then would just flat out not BE LED BY HIM into full Maturity, we find them recorded in these verses of Obad. 1
[15] For the day of the LORD is near upon all the heathen: as thou hast done, it shall be done unto thee: thy reward shall return upon thine own head.
[16] For [[as ye have drunk upon my holy mountain]], so shall all the heathen drink continually, yea, they shall drink, and they shall swallow down, and they shall be as though they had not been.
--Elijah
Gen. 3
[1] Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?
[2] And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:
[3] But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.
[4] And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:
And which do most all still believe after 6000 years? (and remember that this lie of satan was before the plan of Salvation was brought forth!)
Note that God through the Holy Spirit has his Holy men use these words in describing the fate of man. (and remember that 1 Cor. 13 has it that ALL the spirits of the prophets are SUBJECT to the prophets!)
1. ‘Suffer DEATH’ Rom. 6:23
2. Will suffer ‘DESTRUCTION’ Job 21:30
3. ‘Shall Perish’ Psalms 37:20
4. will ‘BURN ‘ up. And become ashes! Mal. 4:1
5. ‘shall be destroyed together’ Psalms 37:38
6. will ‘CONSUME AWAY’ Psalms 37:20
7. ‘FIRE SHALL DEVOUR THEM.’ Psalms 21:9
And No. 8 for these of the Heb. 6:1-6 ones? those who had been Born Again, and were Made PARTAKERS of the Holy Ghost, & then would just flat out not BE LED BY HIM into full Maturity, we find them recorded in these verses of Obad. 1
[15] For the day of the LORD is near upon all the heathen: as thou hast done, it shall be done unto thee: thy reward shall return upon thine own head.
[16] For [[as ye have drunk upon my holy mountain]], so shall all the heathen drink continually, yea, they shall drink, and they shall swallow down, and they shall be as though they had not been.
--Elijah
"Proclaim NOT the Hell of the Churches of Men... In Their Words is No Mercy Found, Only the Makings of Satan"
1/14/06 From God The Father - A Letter Given to Timothy, For All Those Who Have Ears to Hear
Thus says The Lord: Listen, all you churches of men! Shall I, even I, torment My beloved, those who are continually tormented by he who is and has torment in his vesture?!... Satan is the tormentor!...
By your own mouths have you unknowingly called your God, satan! Repent therefore, and mend your ways and your doings! Forsake all your corrupt and evil teachings!... Become again a child of God, and learn to walk uprightly in Me, leading others to Love, by love, not fear.
My children, the second death is that grave, from which one shall not be raised nor awakened. For they have been cast out, abiding in outer darkness, forever separated from God and their part in life. These know nothing at all, returning to that from which they were formed. Beloved, THIS is the eternal state of My punishment, for those who have chosen death; for they have rejected The Gift, wherein is life everlasting. So then those under condemnation are dead; in no way are they part of the living, nor are they living in torment... Their inheritance is lost, they have been blotted out, broken vessels of dishonor received by the earth once again.
Therefore, stop blaspheming your God!
And have greater understanding of My Mercy, which endures forever...
For My Son did sleep in the lower parts of the earth, His tomb,
For three days and three nights...
By no means did He descend
Into the evils of man's imaginings!
HE IS THE PURE LIGHT!...
Never has He had any part in darkness!
Behold, He shall destroy it utterly!
For HE IS RISEN!...
And all those, who believe in Him and walk in His ways,
Shall also rise and live, meeting Him in the air...
And forever shall they be with their Lord and their God,
Where all shall find mercy and love.
~ (Letters from God and His Christ,
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Elijah674
Guest
God in 2 Peter 3:10 has it again said this way...
[10] But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements [[shall melt with fervent heat]], the [[earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up]].
With Christ also along with all of His prophets in agreement! Matt. 13:40-42
[41] The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
[42] And [[shall cast them into a furnace of fire]]: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
One more for now??
Rev. 20:9
[9] And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
And again, how the devil can have most all of these ones of Rev. 17:1-5 teaching that God lied & he told the truth is beyond me!:robot Gen. 3
[2] And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:
[3] But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.
[4] And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:
--Elijah
[10] But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements [[shall melt with fervent heat]], the [[earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up]].
With Christ also along with all of His prophets in agreement! Matt. 13:40-42
[41] The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
[42] And [[shall cast them into a furnace of fire]]: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
One more for now??
Rev. 20:9
[9] And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
And again, how the devil can have most all of these ones of Rev. 17:1-5 teaching that God lied & he told the truth is beyond me!:robot Gen. 3
[2] And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:
[3] But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.
[4] And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:
--Elijah
The only thing about it is they are not zapped out of existence, they are cast alive into the lake of fire and burned to death. I can't imagine a more horrible way to die.
Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Rev 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
Mal 4:1 For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch.
Mal 4:2 But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall.
Mal 4:3 And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the LORD of hosts.
Burned to death, death for all eternity with no coming back. Gone! Done and done.
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Elijah674
Guest
Great understanding. Had you noticed that Matt. 10 has this Wording?
[27] What I tell you in darkness, that speak ye in light: and what ye hear in the ear, that preach ye upon the housetops. (:waving)
[28] And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
And even fish are a soul, huh! Rev. 16
[3] And the second angel poured out his vial upon the sea; and it became as the blood of a dead man: and every living soul died in the sea.
And Eze. 18:4 + verse 20?? The 'soul that sinneth, it shall die.'
--Elijah
Pard
Member
Although I find this talk of some delight, not in the nature of Hell, but in a very Biblical and rooted discussion on Hell, I do fear that this conversation cannot be properly complete without talking about Romans 11:22.
Fire and brimstone and destruction is all great and dandy but it doesn't mean anything. You cannot get scared into being a Christian. You can get scared and go to the knee, but that only means you worship your worth, you are a self-worshiping idolater who attempts to find safety in Christ's death, and this is perverted and wrong.
Truth to the reason for a need to know and understand Hell can be found in Romans 11:22, "Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off."
When we understand both His goodness and His severity, then we begin to understand how great our God is. Hell is the right and justified punishment for the ENTIRE world. Every human that has ever breathed (save Christ Himself) desires nothing but eternal damnation and to be cast into the pit of fire with their master Satan. No one desires anything but Hell.
BUT OH HOW GREAT is God, because He sacrificed His own Son that we may not have to bear such a punishment! Praise God for that truth! This is why we must understand the nature of Hell, so that we may greater understand the glory of God!
Fire and brimstone and destruction is all great and dandy but it doesn't mean anything. You cannot get scared into being a Christian. You can get scared and go to the knee, but that only means you worship your worth, you are a self-worshiping idolater who attempts to find safety in Christ's death, and this is perverted and wrong.
Truth to the reason for a need to know and understand Hell can be found in Romans 11:22, "Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off."
When we understand both His goodness and His severity, then we begin to understand how great our God is. Hell is the right and justified punishment for the ENTIRE world. Every human that has ever breathed (save Christ Himself) desires nothing but eternal damnation and to be cast into the pit of fire with their master Satan. No one desires anything but Hell.
BUT OH HOW GREAT is God, because He sacrificed His own Son that we may not have to bear such a punishment! Praise God for that truth! This is why we must understand the nature of Hell, so that we may greater understand the glory of God!
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Elijah674
Guest
Very CLEAR! And GONE forever just like they were before they took their first breath!
Note 1 Cor, 10
[11] Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.
Such as Jude..
[4] For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.
[5] I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not.
[6] And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.
[7] Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire
--Elijah
thethinkingrebel
Member
thethinkingrebel
Member
Again an excellent post.
I will clarify the truth:
You live
You die
You sleep
Christians are resurrected to life
The rest of humanity are resurrected to judgment.
Some are saved (possibly)
The rest are destroyed in the lake of fire.
thethinkingrebel
Member
tim-from-pa
Member
Nice summary. Christians, of course, are those chosen to rule and reign with Christ. The rest will be called and saved later. And all those who never had the chance will be resurrected and offered salvation at the Great White Throne Judgement. Those refusing grace, whatever "age" they were called in, will face the lake of fire and burned up completely and destroyed (perished as Jesus said). It's all in the feasts of the Lord outlining the redemption of mankind.
As a side-note here, in Israel the tribes of Judah and Levi were Kings and priests respectively, in which the book of Revelation says we are. The rest of those saved later are typified by the rest of Israel of the other tribes. God's plan (besides the feasts) regarding His government was outlined in the way He established the order in Israel.
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Elijah674
Guest
Hi! No personal offence meant. Yet, how are 'we' to judge Truth??? (1 Cor. 6:2-3) Can we just say this or that [IS THE WAY THAT IT IS] without the Word of God being given???
The Subject is that of 'HELL', and as 'i' read the WORD in Eccl. 3:14 that is backed up in the last WARNING to me in Rev. 22:18-19 about adding or removing any of its True content, it seems to be a fact that the WORD MUST BE SUPPLIED for 'me' to not have my name removed from the Book of Life.
And just where does one read this statement from Gods Word??..'The rest will be called and saved later. And all those who never had the chance will be resurrected and offered salvation at the Great White Throne Judgement.'
--Elijah
Let me help here Elijah..
There are three resurrections and the only place in the Bible where all three are mentioned in one place is Rev 20. The first one is at the return of Christ...
Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
Also spoken of here...
1Co 15:23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
Notice in these passages the only ones spoken of are those in Christ, converted Christians. But Rev 20:5 mentions others here, the rest of the dead. Who are the rest of the dead?
First of all to understand the second resurrection, one must understand that the whole idea of a Great Controversy as Ellen G. White and the SDAs teach is erroneous. This is not some great contest where God is desparately trying to save as many as He can and the Devil is trying to cause as many as he can to be lost. If that were the case, the Devil is winning. We know that is not true. The fact is, this is not the only day of salvation. Christ plainly taught that all were not being called at this time...
Joh 6:39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
Joh 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
Joh 6:65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.
Joh 17:9 I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.
There are many more scriptures, but one should be enough. Anyhoo, in this age God is only calling whom He will. The others aren't lost or saved, they are just uncalled. These are the rest of the dead. Back to Rev 20...
Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
Notice when this "rest of the dead" live again, after the Millenium.
Rev 20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
Notice in verse 11 that the books are opened, what books are these?
Luk 24:45 Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,
One cannot understand the truth of God until this miracle takes place. God must open our minds before we can understand. So, we see here in verse 11 that the books, all 66 of them, from Genesis to Revelation are opened to these people. This is all of those from the beginning who did not understand the truth. Ever wonder about Chinese children 3000 years ago?
Act 4:12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.
The Chinese, those in Borneo, how about those in Africa, South America, the American Indians and people today who just cannot understand the scripture? They finally get a chance to make their choice based on a 100 year life span...
Isa 65:20 There shall be no more thence an infant of days, nor an old man that hath not filled his days: for the child shall die an hundred years old; but the sinner being an hundred years old shall be accursed.
So those who choose life, are given eternal life at that time. Now comes the third resurrection...
Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Rev 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
Notice in this resurrection there are no books opened? Only the Book of life and if your name is not in there, you are burned up. Cast into the Lake of Fire and burned to ashes.
Mal 4:1 For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch.
Mal 4:2 But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall.
Mal 4:3 And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the LORD of hosts.
Three resurrections, one at Christ's return for those in Christ. One at the end of the Millenium for those who haven't had a chance and finally, 100 years after that, the resurrection to the Lake of Fire for the incorrigibly wicked.
*edit* let me add one more verse here...
1Co 15:23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
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thethinkingrebel
Member
I am quite swayed by this argument. The millennial kingdom is far more than just good Christians sitting on thrones for 1000 years. Its actually helping evangelize those who previously didn't have the opportunity.