No man can know the day, not the angels nor the Son, only the Father

[JohnD]

Many have tried to prove Jesus wrong about this and have set dates (sometimes within their lifetimes) proving their confidence in themselves only revealed how foolish they were when the dates they set came and passed and their predictions were proven false.

The Bible speaks more about the time of the tribulation than any other doctrine (from the prophecies in the life of Abraham to the famines of Joseph's co regency, to the plagues in Exodus, to the scattered prophecies in all the prophets [especially Daniel] to the prophecies in Matthew 24-25 and Luke 21-22, Paul hints at it repeatedly, and certainly Revelation...

Daniel 12:11-12 in fact lays out a time frame (while not setting an actual date) which reveals the beginning of the tribulation once the temple sacrifices are abated in the middle of the 70th Week of Daniel. Then it will be possible to back date that beginning but not until.

This also says something about the office which the Father holds that Jesus and the Holy Spirit apparently do not... all knowing (omniscience). Think about it. How could Jesus not know anything and be omniscient? He is God incarnate (the lone Creator of all things created in the beginning). And the Holy Spirit in 1 Corinthians 2 is said to search the mind of God ("the deep things of God")... if omniscient what's to find out?

I suggest... my humble opinion only... that in order to make the plan of human salvation work, both God the Word and God the Spirit had to empty themselves of certain aspects or prerogatives of deity (without losing deity) to deal with temporal beings like men and angels. And the Father remained in that omniscient state and state of ultimate authority.

Thoughts?

 

[Kathi]

I am having a problem with your question.Are you saying that Jesus now does not even know the day of His return?

 

[JLB]

Many have tried to prove Jesus wrong about this and have set dates (sometimes within their lifetimes) proving their confidence in themselves only revealed how foolish they were when the dates they set came and passed and their predictions were proven false.

The Bible speaks more about the time of the tribulation than any other doctrine (from the prophecies in the life of Abraham to the famines of Joseph's co regency, to the plagues in Exodus, to the scattered prophecies in all the prophets [especially Daniel] to the prophecies in Matthew 24-25 and Luke 21-22, Paul hints at it repeatedly, and certainly Revelation...

Daniel 12:11-12 in fact lays out a time frame (while not setting an actual date) which reveals the beginning of the tribulation once the temple sacrifices are abated in the middle of the 70th Week of Daniel. Then it will be possible to back date that beginning but not until.

This also says something about the office which the Father holds that Jesus and the Holy Spirit apparently do not... all knowing (omniscience). Think about it. How could Jesus not know anything and be omniscient? He is God incarnate (the lone Creator of all things created in the beginning). And the Holy Spirit in 1 Corinthians 2 is said to search the mind of God ("the deep things of God")... if omniscient what's to find out?

I suggest... my humble opinion only... that in order to make the plan of human salvation work, both God the Word and God the Spirit had to empty themselves of certain aspects or prerogatives of deity (without losing deity) to deal with temporal beings like men and angels. And the Father remained in that omniscient state and state of ultimate authority.

Thoughts?

Jesus used a well known Hebraic Idiom for the feast of trumpets which would occur on the New Moon, either on the 29th or the 30th day of the month, thus the phrase no one knows the day or the hour.

The feast of Trumpets.

16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first.1 Thessalonians 4:16

and again -

30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. Matthew 24:30-31


JLB

 

[JohnD]

I am having a problem with your question.Are you saying that Jesus now does not even know the day of His return?

Mark 13:32 (KJV)
32 But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.

 

[JohnD]

Philippians 2 mentions Jesus emptying himself in some capacity (without ceasing to be God by the way in the Greek "morphe theos huparchon"). So what I suggested is at least possible and the Bible indicates he did empty himself of something. Again... my suggestion was only my opinion and I could be completely wrong. But the reasons I cited why I have the opinion are sincere and no malicious.

 

[Kathi]

Mark 13:32 (KJV)
32 But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.

The rapture or the second coming?

 

[smaller]

Many have tried to prove Jesus wrong about this and have set dates (sometimes within their lifetimes) proving their confidence in themselves only revealed how foolish they were when the dates they set came and passed and their predictions were proven false.

The Bible speaks more about the time of the tribulation than any other doctrine (from the prophecies in the life of Abraham to the famines of Joseph's co regency, to the plagues in Exodus, to the scattered prophecies in all the prophets [especially Daniel] to the prophecies in Matthew 24-25 and Luke 21-22, Paul hints at it repeatedly, and certainly Revelation...

Daniel 12:11-12 in fact lays out a time frame (while not setting an actual date) which reveals the beginning of the tribulation once the temple sacrifices are abated in the middle of the 70th Week of Daniel. Then it will be possible to back date that beginning but not until.

This also says something about the office which the Father holds that Jesus and the Holy Spirit apparently do not... all knowing (omniscience). Think about it. How could Jesus not know anything and be omniscient? He is God incarnate (the lone Creator of all things created in the beginning). And the Holy Spirit in 1 Corinthians 2 is said to search the mind of God ("the deep things of God")... if omniscient what's to find out?

I suggest... my humble opinion only... that in order to make the plan of human salvation work, both God the Word and God the Spirit had to empty themselves of certain aspects or prerogatives of deity (without losing deity) to deal with temporal beings like men and angels. And the Father remained in that omniscient state and state of ultimate authority.

Thoughts?

There is great difficulties probing through many of these matters because they are all masked or hidden deeply in allegory.

To bring up an interesting observation we know that Satan showed Jesus all his kingdoms in a moment of time:

Luke 4:5
And the devil, taking him up into an high mountain, shewed unto him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time.

The end we are observing is the end of Satan's time, kingdoms and powers.

No man will no the day or the hour in our natural timeline/typical physical senses.

Days, times, seasons and hours in scriptural allegory are entirely different matters.

 

[TOG]

Many have tried to prove Jesus wrong about this and have set dates (sometimes within their lifetimes) proving their confidence in themselves only revealed how foolish they were when the dates they set came and passed and their predictions were proven false.

The Bible speaks more about the time of the tribulation than any other doctrine (from the prophecies in the life of Abraham to the famines of Joseph's co regency, to the plagues in Exodus, to the scattered prophecies in all the prophets [especially Daniel] to the prophecies in Matthew 24-25 and Luke 21-22, Paul hints at it repeatedly, and certainly Revelation...

Daniel 12:11-12 in fact lays out a time frame (while not setting an actual date) which reveals the beginning of the tribulation once the temple sacrifices are abated in the middle of the 70th Week of Daniel. Then it will be possible to back date that beginning but not until.

This also says something about the office which the Father holds that Jesus and the Holy Spirit apparently do not... all knowing (omniscience). Think about it. How could Jesus not know anything and be omniscient? He is God incarnate (the lone Creator of all things created in the beginning). And the Holy Spirit in 1 Corinthians 2 is said to search the mind of God ("the deep things of God")... if omniscient what's to find out?

I suggest... my humble opinion only... that in order to make the plan of human salvation work, both God the Word and God the Spirit had to empty themselves of certain aspects or prerogatives of deity (without losing deity) to deal with temporal beings like men and angels. And the Father remained in that omniscient state and state of ultimate authority.

Thoughts?

I think there's another possibility. I think Jesus only emptied himself temporarily, while he was in physical form here on earth. Today, he is no longer limited by a physical body, and so is again omniscient, and therefor knows the date he will return. As for us, we cannot know the exact date, but we can see signs and know that the season is approaching.

The TOG​

 

[smaller]

I think there's another possibility. I think Jesus only emptied himself temporarily, while he was in physical form here on earth. Today, he is no longer limited by a physical body, and so is again omniscient, and therefor knows the date he will return. As for us, we cannot know the exact date, but we can see signs and know that the season is approaching.

The TOG​

That is a very legitimate observation. Christ as the Image of God in somewhat understandable human form and Living Words were in some respects a type of constraint for God Himself, therefore a difference is noted between the parties. The Appearance of God into a tangible real Image/Expression in the form of Christ, as His Son is a very deep and mysterious subject in and of itself.

 

[Sinthesis]

In regard to "No man can know the day, not the angels nor the Son, only the Father", Jesus was referencing the Jewish marriage custom whereby the groom prepares a place at his father's house for his betrothed bride. It is the father alone who decides when the groom's preparations are complete. Then the father sends the son back to collect his bride for the actual marriage ceremony.

 

[Shimshon]

Many have tried to prove Jesus wrong about this and have set dates (sometimes within their lifetimes) proving their confidence in themselves only revealed how foolish they were when the dates they set came and passed and their predictions were proven false.

The Bible speaks more about the time of the tribulation than any other doctrine (from the prophecies in the life of Abraham to the famines of Joseph's co regency, to the plagues in Exodus, to the scattered prophecies in all the prophets [especially Daniel] to the prophecies in Matthew 24-25 and Luke 21-22, Paul hints at it repeatedly, and certainly Revelation...

Daniel 12:11-12 in fact lays out a time frame (while not setting an actual date) which reveals the beginning of the tribulation once the temple sacrifices are abated in the middle of the 70th Week of Daniel. Then it will be possible to back date that beginning but not until.

This also says something about the office which the Father holds that Jesus and the Holy Spirit apparently do not... all knowing (omniscience). Think about it. How could Jesus not know anything and be omniscient? He is God incarnate (the lone Creator of all things created in the beginning). And the Holy Spirit in 1 Corinthians 2 is said to search the mind of God ("the deep things of God")... if omniscient what's to find out?

I suggest... my humble opinion only... that in order to make the plan of human salvation work, both God the Word and God the Spirit had to empty themselves of certain aspects or prerogatives of deity (without losing deity) to deal with temporal beings like men and angels. And the Father remained in that omniscient state and state of ultimate authority.

Thoughts?

I believe the father the son and the spirit are One. But just like our bodies are one being with many parts, so too is God. I've heard the son described like God poking his finger as if under a sheet. He is invisible but the sheet reveals his invisible form. The sheet is not the complete existence of the father but a revelation of his being. Likewise, the son could be looked at as a 'right arm' of God. And an arm does not lead the body but is led by the 'head', yet the arm is fully part of the body. Equal in substance but not in function. That said, it could be the function of the son and the spirit is not to 'be' the father but to do the will of the father. Which is to reveal himself as the son, and likewise the son reveals himself as the father. Not to say the arm is the whole body, but that the arm raised the banner over the bodies head. It reads 'God our salvation'. That by no other name we are to be saved.

Reminds me of these verses;

John 5:43 I have come in my Father’s name,…..

John 17:6 "I have manifested Your name to the men whom You have given Me out of the world. They were Yours, You gave them to Me, and they have kept Your word. 7 Now they have known that all things which You have given Me are from You. 8 For I have given to them the words which You have given Me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came forth from You; and they have believed that You sent Me. 9 I pray for them. I do not pray for the world but for those whom You have given Me, for they are Yours. 10 And all Mine are Yours, and Yours are Mine, and I am glorified in them. 11 Now I am no longer in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to You. Holy Father, keep through Your name those whom You have given Me, that they may be one as We are. 12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in Your name. Those whom You gave Me I have kept; and none of them is lost except the son of perdition, that the Scripture might be fulfilled

25 O righteous Father! The world has not known You, but I have known You; and these have known that You sent Me. 26 And I have declared to them Your name, and will declare it, that the love with which You loved Me may be in them, and I in them."

 

[tim-from-pa]

I think there's another possibility. I think Jesus only emptied himself temporarily, while he was in physical form here on earth. Today, he is no longer limited by a physical body, and so is again omniscient, and therefor knows the date he will return. As for us, we cannot know the exact date, but we can see signs and know that the season is approaching.

The TOG​

I agree with this ^^^^

He said that "all power" was given to him in heaven and earth after the resurrection. In human form, he emptied himself (tabernacled) for a season to become human as we are, yet still being in person the Word (John 1:1).

 

[tim-from-pa]

Jesus used a well known Hebraic Idiom for the feast of trumpets which would occur on the New Moon, either on the 29th or the 30th day of the month, thus the phrase no one knows the day or the hour.

The feast of Trumpets.

16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first.1 Thessalonians 4:16

and again -

30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. Matthew 24:30-31


JLB

Also this ^^^ is a good post about recognizing Jesus was alluding to the feast of trumpets when saying "not knowing the day or hour" as they watched for the new moon, but did not know exactly when the month would start. The theme here is WATCHING when you see the signs falling into place just as one knows about when the month will begin.

 

[Deborah13]

I believe the father the son and the spirit are One. But just like our bodies are one being with many parts, so too is God. I've heard the son described like God poking his finger as if under a sheet. He is invisible but the sheet reveals his invisible form. The sheet is not the complete existence of the father but a revelation of his being. Likewise, the son could be looked at as a 'right arm' of God. And an arm does not lead the body but is led by the 'head', yet the arm is fully part of the body. Equal in substance but not in function. That said, it could be the function of the son and the spirit is not to 'be' the father but to do the will of the father. Which is to reveal himself as the son, and likewise the son reveals himself as the father. Not to say the arm is the whole body, but that the arm raised the banner over the bodies head. It reads 'God our salvation'. That by no other name we are to be saved.

Reminds me of these verses;

John 5:43 I have come in my Father’s name,…..

John 17:6 "I have manifested Your name to the men whom You have given Me out of the world. They were Yours, You gave them to Me, and they have kept Your word. 7 Now they have known that all things which You have given Me are from You. 8 For I have given to them the words which You have given Me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came forth from You; and they have believed that You sent Me. 9 I pray for them. I do not pray for the world but for those whom You have given Me, for they are Yours. 10 And all Mine are Yours, and Yours are Mine, and I am glorified in them. 11 Now I am no longer in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to You. Holy Father, keep through Your name those whom You have given Me, that they may be one as We are. 12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in Your name. Those whom You gave Me I have kept; and none of them is lost except the son of perdition, that the Scripture might be fulfilled

25 O righteous Father! The world has not known You, but I have known You; and these have known that You sent Me. 26 And I have declared to them Your name, and will declare it, that the love with which You loved Me may be in them, and I in them."

I'm not very sure about this topic but your explanation seems right to me. I like it.

 

[Shimshon]

I agree with this ^^^^

He said that "all power" was given to him in heaven and earth after the resurrection. In human form, he emptied himself (tabernacled) for a season to become human as we are, yet still being in person the Word (John 1:1).

After the resurrection?

Wasn't Messiah glorified before the foundation of the world? (John 17: 5&24) Luke 4:36 shows Jesus being identified as having the authority and power to cast out demons, before the resurrection. Luke 9:1 and Luke 10:19 show Jesus giving this power and authority to his followers, before the resurrection. And John 17 has Jesus stating he was given authority over all flesh, before the resurrection.

John 17
1 Jesus spoke these words, lifted up His eyes to heaven, and said: "Father, the hour has come. Glorify Your Son, that Your Son also may glorify You, 2 as You have given Him authority over all flesh, that He should give eternal life to as many as You have given Him. 3 And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent. 4 I have glorified You on the earth. I have finished the work which You have given Me to do. 5 And now, O Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was.​

 

[jasonc]

In regard to "No man can know the day, not the angels nor the Son, only the Father", Jesus was referencing the Jewish marriage custom whereby the groom prepares a place at his father's house for his betrothed bride. It is the father alone who decides when the groom's preparations are complete. Then the father sends the son back to collect his bride for the actual marriage ceremony.

im going to read up on the chuppa and this again.i think that god told him nothing to say. I don't see how an infinite mind could not know it all. words to ponder then on that as well.

 

[tim-from-pa]

After the resurrection?

Wasn't Messiah glorified before the foundation of the world? (John 17: 5&24) Luke 4:36 shows Jesus being identified as having the authority and power to cast out demons, before the resurrection. Luke 9:1 and Luke 10:19 show Jesus giving this power and authority to his followers, before the resurrection. And John 17 has Jesus stating he was given authority over all flesh, before the resurrection.

John 17
1 Jesus spoke these words, lifted up His eyes to heaven, and said: "Father, the hour has come. Glorify Your Son, that Your Son also may glorify You, 2 as You have given Him authority over all flesh, that He should give eternal life to as many as You have given Him. 3 And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent. 4 I have glorified You on the earth. I have finished the work which You have given Me to do. 5 And now, O Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was.​

I don't fundamentally disagree with you. Your reply is not fully relevant to what I was saying, however.

 

[Shimshon]

I don't fundamentally disagree with you. Your reply is not fully relevant to what I was saying, however.

You stated Messiah received all power (and authority) 'after' the resurrection. That is not what was testified. Not by Messiah nor by the witnesses. So, I'd say it's good that you don't fundamentally disagree with that. Not sure how you don't think it relevant to your statement that he received these things 'after' his resurrection.

 

[tim-from-pa]

You stated Messiah received all power (and authority) 'after' the resurrection. That is not what was testified. Not by Messiah nor by the witnesses. So, I'd say it's good that you don't fundamentally disagree with that. Not sure how you don't think it relevant to your statement that he received these things 'after' his resurrection.

The subject was about emptying himself when tabernacled in human flesh. Besides, what I said was a direct quote from him, so I guess that relieves me of that responsibility of saying anything on my own.

 

[Shimshon]

The subject was about emptying himself when tabernacled in human flesh. Besides, what I said was a direct quote from him, so I guess that relieves me of that responsibility of saying anything on my own.

Please quote it for me. All I saw was your own words.