No other gods.....

[nmwings]

Moses, Jesus and Paul ALL instruct us to observe the Feast of Redemption = aka: Passover (Ex 12:1-20, Luke 22:15-20, 1 Cor 5:7-8.) Yet all my life I've been told to ignore this and observe Easter, who I've learned is Ishtar.... a sex goddess! YUK!!! I know that honoring false gods breaks the very 1st commandment in multiple ways. I also know that Scripture clearly defines honoring false gods as adultury (whoredom) and that is the main reason Israel went into exile. So now I'm beginning to think that we are no different and no better than Israel in this regard.

 

[Danus]

Are you serious?

 

[handy]

I'm not sure what specific advice you are seeking here, but here is my advice regarding your post:

In Luke 22, Jesus is instituting Communion, not Passover. As Paul points out in 1 Corinthians 5, Jesus is our Passover...we have no need to celebrate the shadow of what was fulfilled in Christ. Many Christians do, and that's OK, but what Jesus commands us to celebrate as a remembrance is communion, which is our true "feast of redemption"...the body and blood of Christ.

As far as Easter being a "worship" of Ishtar... ummm...no. I've been to many, many Easter services now, and all have been unconditionally and exclusively centered on the resurrection of our Lord Jesus Christ.

I would imagine the best Scripture to apply here is "Therefore no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day—" Colossians 2:16

We should neither judge others, nor feel pressured to be judged by others in these issues. If the Lord convicts one to not participate in Easter then don't...but also don't judge the motives of those who do and call them idol worshipers when they are celebrating the resurrection of the Lord.

 

[nmwings]

In Luke 22, Jesus is instituting Communion, not Passover.

Yes, that had been ingrained in my head since childhood, too! But all my Bibles (KJV, NKJV, NASB, and ASV) all say "Passover." I did some research and found out Communion was established by the Roman Catholic Church, who changed the Sabbath to Sunday, and forbid the Jewish people from celebrating their Holy Days AND from teaching Torah UNDER PAIN OF DEATH! Since the MESSIAH came from the tribe of Judah, that makes Him a Jew... NOT a Catholic. Do you not know that the “Last Supper†was actually a Passover Seder?

As Paul points out in 1 Corinthians 5, Jesus is our Passover...we have no need to celebrate the shadow of what was fulfilled in Christ.

Again your answer comes straight from the doctrine of the Church….. NOT from Scripture. Please look at this passage again with an open mind: Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened.For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us: Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth. God instructed us to remove all leaven from our homes prior to Passover…. and here, Paul is instructing GENTILES (the Corinthians) to do the exact same thing! Paul mentions "unleavened bread" because that is the name of another festival God instructed us to observe. It starts the day AFTER Passover and it is a High Sabbath (no work to be done) and should not be confused with the WEEKLY Sabbath! Unfortunately, it HAS been confused with the weekly Sabbath because “tradition†tells us Messiah died on a Friday. But if you count… Friday day, Friday night = 1 day. Saturday day, Saturday night = 2 days. Sunday…... uh-oh! That’s NOT 3 days and 3 nights! That’s only 2 days, and Messiah specifically said 3 days and 3 nights! See how the “traditions of men†have fouled this up so badly? The Church can’t count to 3!

Many Christians do, and that's OK, but what Jesus commands us to celebrate as a remembrance is communion, which is our true"feast of redemption"...the body and blood of Christ.

What’s interesting about what the Messiah actually said, is that He will not eat the Passover again UNTIL we are in the Kingdom. Now that is fascinating to me because that means we will celebrate Passover in the Kingdom!

As far as Easter being a "worship" of Ishtar... ummm...no. I've been to many, many Easter services now, and all have been unconditionally and exclusively centered on the resurrection of our Lord Jesus Christ.

I, too have been to many “Sunrise Services.†But you know what? All the PAGANS gather for the sunrise to welcome in their sex goddess, too! It’s sun worship! The Lord told us NOT to worship Him the way the pagans worship their gods. What’s REALLY interesting, is that last year Easter occurred a full month BEFORE Passover. Now how can one properly “remember†the sacrifice of the Messiah, celebrating His resurrection a whole month before the date that He actually died? That would be like celebrating the 4th of July in June. Close, but no cigar.

I would imagine the best Scripture to apply here is"Therefore no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day—" Colossians 2:16.

Oh,yes! I love this passage! This is where Paul tells his new converts to not let their pagan friends and family members give them grief about their new kosher diet, or to let them razz them for observing Passover now instead of Easter! Or that they now rest on the Sabbath instead of Sundays!

It is heart-breaking how the doctrines of men have twisted Scripture so badly that when people read the words, their indoctrination kicks in and blinds them to what’s right there in black in white.

 

[ChristianNationalist]

As a former Germanic pagan, I feel compelled to weigh in.

Easter has nothing to do with Ishtar. I believe you're probably referring to Eostre, from whom we receive the word Easter. Eostre was a Germanic pagan godess who had a month named for her called Eostur-monath. I guess when you consider that many scholars associate Eostre with the proto-indoeuropean goddss from which both Eostre and Ishtar may have descended you could say that it is tied to Ishtar, but the break between the two occured far far in the past and predate Easter by a couple thousand years at the very least.

Part of the secret to the success of Christianity's spread was the practice of adopting pagan practices and rededicating them to the Christian God. They even did this with Christmas, Jesus most certainly was not born on Dec 25 but Mithras was. So church leaders yoinked Dec 25, declared it Jesus' birthday and there you are: Christmas. With Easter, the celebration of the resurrection of Christ took place during the month of Eostur-monath; which they coopted as Easter.

The point is that it doesn't matter what was, only what is. It doesn't matter that Jesus couldn't have been born on Dec 25, it only matters that we celebrated his birth every year. It also doesn't matter that many of the traditions of Easter have pagan roots (Easter bunny, colored eggs, etc), it only matters that on that day we remember the resurrection of Christ. It has no more significance than the fact that the days of the week are named for Germanic or Roman gods (depending upon whether you're speaking a Germanic or Romance language).

 

[Mike]

Since the OP was clearly looking to debate the point, and the rules of the CT&A do not allow for debate, I'm moving this thread to the A&T. Everyone needs to be aware of where they are posting and the particular rules of each forum.

 

[nmwings]

Since the OP was clearly looking to debate the point, and the rules of the CT&A do not allow for debate, I'm moving this thread to the A&T. Everyone needs to be aware of where they are posting and the particular rules of each forum.

Oops! My deepest apologies

I believe you're probably referring to Eostre, from whom we receive the word Easter.

If you dig just a little bit, you’ll discover these are all the SAME god, and she originates from Nimrod back in Babylon. When God confused the languages, the people still worshipped her…. only her NAME changed. She is also known as: Aphrodite (ancient Cyprus), Astarte (ancient Greece), Ishtar (ancient BABYLON), and Ashtoreth :eeeekkk (ancient Israel.)

1 Ki 11:3 says, “Because that they have forsaken me, and have worshipped :eeeekkkAshtoreth the goddess of the Zidonians…,†To worship her is an act of forsaking HIM!!

The point is that it doesn't matter what was, only what is. It doesn't matter that Jesus couldn't have been born on Dec 25, it only matters that we celebrated his birth every year. It also doesn't matter that many of the traditions of Easter have pagan roots (Easter bunny, colored eggs, etc), it only matters that on that day we remember the resurrection of Christ.

Again, those are the words of the Church –and NOT the words of Jesus, nor the words of Paul.

Since you are “a former Germanic pagan†how are you any different in the eyes of your pagan friends who worship her the exact same way you worship Jesus? The day and your rituals haven’t changed - Babylon is repeating all over again…. only the NAME of the god has changed.

My point is, if we want to celebrate, why don't we celebrate the ACTUAL day these events occured? He was born during Tabernacles, died on Passover and was resurrected on the First Fruits of the Barley Harvest (hence Him being called the "First Fruits" of the Spirit.)

How would you like it if everyone celebrated your birthday on the date of your rival's birthday, and when YOUR birthday rolled around no one acknowledges it?

 

[childeye]

If you truly believe Jesus is the One True Image of God sent to man, you cannot worship any other gods, nor does the Holy Spirit allow you to move to do so, nor does He shy away in fear of these false images of god. For that's all they are, false images. No match for the real thing.

 

[ChristianNationalist]

If you dig just a little bit, you’ll discover these are all the SAME god, and she originates from Nimrod back in Babylon. When God confused the languages, the people still worshipped her…. only her NAME changed. S[/FONT][/COLOR]he is also known as: Aphrodite (ancient Cyprus), Astarte (ancient Greece), Ishtar (ancient BABYLON), and Ashtoreth :eeeekkk (ancient Israel.)

Like I said:

many scholars associate Eostre with the proto-indoeuropean goddss from which both Eostre and Ishtar may have descended you could say that it is tied to Ishtar, but the break between the two occured far far in the past and predate Easter by a couple thousand years at the very least.

I realize that Eostre is the same as some of these other goddesses, at least they originate from the same source. They're actually descended from the Proto-Indoeuropean pantheon.

Again, those are the words of the Church –and NOT the words of Jesus, nor the words of Paul.

Since you are “a former Germanic pagan†how are you any different in the eyes of your pagan friends who worship her the exact same way you worship Jesus? The day and your rituals haven’t changed - Babylon is repeating all over again…. only the NAME of the god has changed.

What makes you think God never spoke to the Europeans before Jesus arrived? Medieval Christians often spoke of how well prepared northern pagans were for conversion to Christ. Do you think it odd that they pass a cup of mead during blots in a manner similar to Christians drinking wine at communion? Or that Odin sacrificed himself to himself by nailing himself to a tree in a manner similar to Christ? That Baldur was slain by a spear and is supposed to return to usher in a new era, beginning with a final battle against the forces of evil?

All of these things made them easier to convert, as the new was not so different from the old in their minds.

Reading the Eddas with an open mind it becomes obvious that prophecies must have reached the northmen, even if the truth became muddied after generation of generation of oral communication. I fully believe that while they were pagans God prepared them well for the Word that would soon come.

My point is, if we want to celebrate, why don't we celebrate the ACTUAL day these events occured? He was born during Tabernacles, died on Passover and was resurrected on the First Fruits of the Barley Harvest (hence Him being called the "First Fruits" of the Spirit.)

How would you like it if everyone celebrated your birthday on the date of your rival's birthday, and when YOUR birthday rolled around no one acknowledges it?

Well, Jesus is a bigger man than me obviously. If he doesn't care on what day we observe the Sabbath I don't think he cares what day we celebrated his birth, or even that we do celebrate his birth.

 

[nmwings]

Medieval Christians often spoke of how well prepared northern pagans were for conversion to Christ.....All of these things made them easier to convert, as the new was not so different from the old in their minds..

Of course they were easy to convert.... like I said before it's just a matter of slapping a different name to the god. Their behavior stayed the same, and their rituals stayed the same. Moses, Jesus and Paul ALL say, "THAT'S NOT CONVERSION.... its PERVERSION.

Well, Jesus is a bigger man than me obviously. If he doesn't care on what day we observe the Sabbath I don't think he cares what day we celebrated his birth, or even that we do celebrate his birth.

I’m guessing you’re referring to the passage where you think Sabbath was changed to Sunday. So let’s re-examine Acts 20:7 And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight. And there were many lights in the upperchamber, where they were gathered together.

God’s day begins at SUNSET (see Creation Week… “evening and morning the first day, evening and morning the second day, etc.) Notice in this passage the “day” is in italics, meaning that word is not in the original text. Regardless if the word "day" was in there or not, the first of the week is SATURDAY NIGHT after sunset. After the Sabbath has ended (when it is dark) the disciples gathered together for a meal (broke bread) and to light candles (many lights) to declare that the Sabbath had come to an end (this custom was instituted by the prophet Ezra, BTW.) And so now the timeline is much more coherent considering Paul preached until midnight! Midnight on Saturday night. (That is why Eutychus fell asleep and did a nose-dive off the 3rd story window.) Paul departed “at the break of day” in verse 11, on the 1st day of the week…. Sunday.

You are correct in one thing… there is no instruction for celebrating His birthday. However, I believe He was born during the Feast of Tabernacles (the nativity scene clearly shows the “temporary dwelling” we are instructed to make for the proper observance of this Holy week) and so those who observe this Festival are already celebrating His birth.


*EDITED BY STAFF FOR VIOLATION OF THE TOS*
--PLEASE REFRAIN FROM TROLLING IN THIS THREAD--

 

[ChristianNationalist]

Of course they were easy to convert.... like I said before it's just a matter of slapping a different name to the god. Their behavior stayed the same, and their rituals stayed the same. Moses, Jesus and Paul ALL say, "THAT'S NOT CONVERSION.... its PERVERSION.

Yeah, slapping a new name on the god who shares so many similarities to that worshiped by the Jews. I guess God just ignored 95% of the globe for thousands of years then just decided to pay attention to the rest. As far as I'm concerned God prepared peoples around the globe for His coming.

I’m guessing you’re referring to the passage where you think Sabbath was changed to Sunday. So let’s re-examine Acts 20:7 And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight. And there were many lights in the upperchamber, where they were gathered together.

God’s day begins at SUNSET (see Creation Week… “evening and morning the first day, evening and morning the second day, etc.) Notice in this passage the “day†is in italics, meaning that word is not in the original text. Regardless if the word "day" was in there or not, the first of the week is SATURDAY NIGHT after sunset. After the Sabbath has ended (when it is dark) the disciples gathered together for a meal (broke bread) and to light candles (many lights) to declare that the Sabbath had come to an end (this custom was instituted by the prophet Ezra, BTW.) And so now the timeline is much more coherent considering Paul preached until midnight! Midnight on Saturday night. (That is why Eutychus fell asleep and did a nose-dive off the 3rd story window.) Paul departed “at the break of day†in verse 11, on the 1st day of the week…. Sunday.

When did the timing of days become part of the conversation? Paul implored Christians not to allow things like the day they celebrate the Sabbath to get between the different denominations. The day of the Sabbath doesn't matter, only that there is a Sabbath.

 

[nmwings]

Yeah, slapping a new name on the god who shares so many similarities to that worshiped by the Jews..

What? I don't understand what you mean by this... : Please explain.

When did the timing of days become part of the conversation? Paul implored Christians not to allow things like the day they celebrate the Sabbath to get between the different denominations. The day of the Sabbath doesn't matter, only that there is a Sabbath.

I'm sorry....usually it is that passage people use to say it was changed to Sunday. That interpretation of Col 2:16 is incorrect:
Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holy day, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
Paul is telling GENTILE Corinthians not to let their pagan friends or family give them grief because they no longer eat the things they used to eat, they observe different Holy Days than they used to (like Passover instead of Easter and observing Sabbath instead of Sunday), and that they now observe the New Moon.

The day of the Sabbath matters to God because HE was the one who set it apart (sanctified it) from the other six days and blessed it. (Do you know there's actually a BLESSING for us on Sabbath? Messiah also mentions that "Sabbath was made FOR man, and not man made for the Sabbath.") But that's not the subject of this thread. What IS related to this thread is that God DOES care how and when we worship Him, otherwise He wouldn't have gone to such extremes to communicate this to us. MAN, thinking he knows more than God, has put his own "2-cents" into it and screwed it all up. Of course man forgets Isa 55:8 "For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither areyour ways my ways,saith the LORD. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, soare my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts."

 

[Dude-Dastic]

Part of the secret to the success of Christianity's spread was the practice of adopting pagan practices and rededicating them to the Christian God. They even did this with Christmas, Jesus most certainly was not born on Dec 25 but Mithras was. So church leaders yoinked Dec 25, declared it Jesus' birthday and there you are: Christmas. With Easter, the celebration of the resurrection of Christ took place during the month of Eostur-monath; which they coopted as Easter.

 

[ChristianNationalist]

What? I don't understand what you mean by this... : Please explain.

The legends of the Germanic peoples held many similarities with Christianity and in my belief are foreshadowings of His coming. Their god sacrificed himself to himself by nailing himself to a tree, as did our God (though the Romans drove the nails, it was God's will); their most important religious ceremonies involved the communal passing of mead, as we pass wine during communion; Odin's (their primary god) son Baldur was slain by a spear cast by a blind god who was deceived by Loki (Satan); just as Jesus was pierced by a spear of one who knows not what he does; and like Jesus this slain god was to rise and lead the forces of good in a final battle against the forces of evil after which will rise a new world over which Baldur shall rule. The parallels are many and profound.

I'm sorry....usually it is that passage people use to say it was changed to Sunday. That interpretation of Col 2:16 is incorrect:
Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holy day, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
Paul is telling GENTILE Corinthians not to let their pagan friends or family give them grief because they no longer eat the things they used to eat, they observe different Holy Days than they used to (like Passover instead of Easter and observing Sabbath instead of Sunday), and that they now observe the New Moon.

The day of the Sabbath matters to God because HE was the one who set it apart (sanctified it) from the other six days and blessed it. (Do you know there's actually a BLESSING for us on Sabbath? Messiah also mentions that "Sabbath was made FOR man, and not man made for the Sabbath.") But that's not the subject of this thread. What IS related to this thread is that God DOES care how and when we worship Him, otherwise He wouldn't have gone to such extremes to communicate this to us. MAN, thinking he knows more than God, has put his own "2-cents" into it and screwed it all up. Of course man forgets Isa 55:8 "For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither areyour ways my ways,saith the LORD. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, soare my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts."

Paul wasn't telling them to ignore their pagan friends and family, a fact that is obvious when you read more than just a snippet:

11 In him you were also circumcised, in the putting off of the sinful nature, not with a circumcision done by the hands of men but with the circumcision done by Christ, 12 having been buried with him in baptism and raised with him through your faith in the power of God, who raised him from the dead. 13 When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your sinful nature, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins, 14 having canceled the written code, with its regulations, that was against us and that stood opposed to us; he took it away, nailing it to the cross. 15 And having disarmed the powers and authorities, he made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross. 16 Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. 17 These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ. 18 Do not let anyone who delights in false humility and the worship of angels disqualify you for the prize. Such a person goes into great detail about what he has seen, and his unspiritual mind puffs him up with idle notions. 19 He has lost connection with the Head, from whom the whole body, supported and held together by its ligaments and sinews, grows as God causes it to grow.

Pagans don't normally give Christians grief because they aren't circumcised nor do they often delight in the worship of angels. It was plea not to judge based on minor details such as the day of the Sabbath.

 

[nmwings]

Pagans don't normally give Christiansgrief because they aren't circumcised nor do they often delight in the worshipof angels.

Again, it’s because they share the same days and rituals…only the name changes. And God is a jealous God, not willing to share His glorywith anyone else. The Messiah certainly had nothing to do with bringing honorto false gods.

Fedusenko was right in what he said and it is a shame the moderators deleted his post because it is TRUTH. Christianity clings to its man-made pagan traditions and refuses to hear the Word of the Lord. And as I stated earlier: Christianity is no different and no better than Israel in this regard.

 

[nmwings]

The fact that the Messiah observed Passover is not debatable. In the absence of some basic instruction on it, we end up with very distorted ideas and theologies of who He is and what He did for us. At the last Passover that He ate with His disciples, He drank 4 cups of wine (as is the custom, even today) which memorialize the 4 promises He gave to us in Ex 6:6: I will bring you out, I will deliver you, I will also redeem you, and I will be your God. These are the same promises He gives us for the Re-NEWED Covenant and follows the same pattern.

The Cup of Sanctification = “I will bring you out†(of the peoples, of the pagans) To sanctify means “to set apart†or “to be distinct and separate.†In other words, we are not to be like everyone else. If the pagans are doing it, then we should not be doing it. Heb 13:12 says Wherefore Jesus also, that he might sanctify the people (set them apart and to be distinct from other people) with his own blood, suffered outside the gate.

The Cup of Thanksgiving = “I will deliver you†(to free, or to produce a promised result) Gal 1:4 Who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God and our Father: (again with an emphasis on being seperate and distinct from the world)

The Cup of Redemption = “I will also redeem you†(to purchase back, or to bring back) Tit 2:14 “…our great God and Savior Jesus Christ, who gave Himself for us, that He might redeem (buy us back) from every lawless deed and purify (to clean from defilement) for Himself His own special (distinct) people, zealous for good works.

The Cup of Completion = “I will be your God.†It is this final cup that He swore He would not drink again until we are in the Kingdom with Him. At that time, we will ALL be at the Passover table drinking this final Cup of Completion with Him.


In Ps 23:5, David prophesies the REDEMPTIVE work of the Messiah “You prepare a table (Passover meal) before me in the presence of mine enemies (Judas/religious authorities) you anoint my head with oil; (“Messiah†literally means “Annointed Oneâ€) my cup (of Redemption) runs over.â€



There is nothing that resembles the memorialization of the redemptive work of the Messiah in the man-made traditions of egg-laying rabbits, no matter how pretty or decorated you try to make them. The Messiah said He would be in the grave for 3 days and 3 nights, yet Christians insist on 2 days and 2 nights. We are supposed to be separate and distinct from the rest of the world, not “blending†in with the pagans observing their days and customs, and slapping the name of GOD over the name of false gods!

 

[Fedusenko]

Thank you for the support. It gets dismal when brothers and sisters kick you down in the mud.

My questions to CF.net:
1. Do you celebrate Easter with the traditional egg hunts?
2. If so, why? What does this have to do with the Crucifixion?
3. Hypothetically speaking, if you knew that the Easter tradition honored another god (beyond 2 knuckle heads saying so), would you still celebrate it?

 

[ChristianNationalist]

Easter egg hunts are a fun activity for children, but are a secular tradition only used to supplement more important religious traditions. It's no more wrong than is exchanging gifts on Christmas.

 

[Fedusenko]

Easter egg hunts are a fun activity for children, but are a secular tradition only used to supplement more important religious traditions. It's no more wrong than is exchanging gifts on Christmas.

It is no more wrong in the sense that every sin leads to death, but if I were accused of a sin I would prefer one that is not venerating another god.

Traditional Christmas gift giving is not at all what Saint Nicholaus or the 3 Magi did. Their gifts were extremely needed items used for survival. Sinder Klaus gave food and coal to the homeless to survive the winter. The 3 'kings' brought Jesus' family highly valuable items that could be used for trade on their escape to Egypt to avoid persecution. Traditional gift giving is a petty practice that focuses on materialism, not the Christ. Interested in being Christ-like? I am sure you can find someone who's life you can greatly impact with a selfless act of compassion and agape.

You know very well as an ex-germanic pagan that Easter Egg hunting is an evolution of revering Eostre. The very act of dying eggs is a watered down version of a grotesque ritual involving infanticide. Is this how you remember your savior's resurrection? It was hardly secular then and isn't today just because people are ignorant of what they do.

And you did not answer the questions.

 

[nmwings]

It's no more wrong than is exchanging gifts on Christmas.

Except you bow down to that tree in order to GET the gifts.

The 3 'kings' brought Jesus' family highly valuable items that could be used for trade on their escape to Egypt to avoid persecution.

Not so. Gold was for His deity (Kingship), frankincense (incense) was for His Priesthood, and myrrh (an embalming spice) was for His burial.

The very act of dying eggs is a watered down version of a grotesque ritual involving infanticide. Is this how you remember your savior's resurrection? It was hardly secular then and isn't today just because people are ignorant of what they do.

:yes