[__ Science __ ] Old Earth vs. Young Earth

No it is 100% accurate. The dating systems and assumptions on what fossils are all about are wrong o wrong. Period. For example, probably MOST life could not leave fossil remains at all back in the pre flood era. Therefore, if true, that would mean that man was here and other creatures, but for various reasons they would not show up in the fossil record. Then there are the religious faith based dream dates they use. 100% belief based.

Being mature in life is not just 'biblically' mature.
If it is 100% accurate, then why have there been NO dino skeletons found along beside human skeletons?

Look at what your answers are.........
"Probably MOST life could not leave fossil remains at all back in the pre flood era".
"PROBABLY"!........You do not know? What is the proof?

Then you said.........
"IF TRUE"!

If an opinion is true? It is your opinion my friend!
 
If it is 100% accurate, then why have there been NO dino skeletons found along beside human skeletons?
The atmosphere was a lot different back then—pink instead of Blue today. They have ice core samples with air bubbles, so they know how much more humid it was. The only reptiles to survive are turtles and alligators. They both require very wet conditions. There were primates and mammals, but they were different from today.

Just like the age we live in now began when there was a change in the atmosphere and the ice melted. Today they like to call that global warming or the greenhouse effect. The ocean level is still going up. Miami changed their codes and you have to build three feet higher now. Of course New Orleans is already under sea level.
 
If it is 100% accurate, then why have there been NO dino skeletons found along beside human skeletons?
No one knows. What you should be doing is wrapping that in a bundle of faith that somehow, man is not getting things tight. I already mentioned one possibility, that the past was not the same as today and basic forces and laws worked differently. there were all sorts of little creatures and bacteria like things etc etc that probably made a far more efficient recycling and disposal system for dead bodies. We could not figure that out by looking at todays laws and forces and today's creatures etc. So why would God not have had thing more perfect in the beginning for the cycle of life and rapid disposal of remains? Maybe in the beginning it was perfect and then after the fall, it was still closer to perfection than it is today! Maybe at first, after the fall, a few small creatures started to be able to leave remains. Later as time went by, more and more kinds of creatures started to be able to leave fossil remains. So if man was not able to leave any remain at all that would be there and fossilized when the dinos were also there and able to leave remains enough to be fossilized, so what? That does not mean all kinds were not here. It just means all kinds did not leave remains. Then, after the flood and my guess is about the time of the tower of Babel, our current nature and laws came into place. Since then I would deduce that the fossil record was accurate. Not before. Now the flood was probably 70 million imaginary years ago or some 4500 actual real years ago. The reason for that, once again, is that science uses only this present nature and laws to determine all dates.

God really was right all along
Look at what your answers are.........
"Probably MOST life could not leave fossil remains at all back in the pre flood era".
"PROBABLY"!........You do not know? What is the proof?
The proof that nature was the same does not exist. It is all a matter of belief and choice of what to believe. Since God spelled out what happened, there is no excuse to chose wrong.
Then you said.........
"IF TRUE"!

If an opinion is true? It is your opinion my friend!

If nature was the same, and there was no creation THEN your beliefs could be considered. Until then they are based not of facts or actual science but merely faith based. I have my own faith, thanks.
 
Hi daddd
The days and years were counted already before the sun was created.
While it's only a matter of three days, years cannot be counted without the sun existing. Years are literally the time it takes the planet to orbit the sun. No sun... no orbit. Days, on the other hand are the length of time that it takes for a planet to make one full rotation on its axis. So days will begin to pass from the very moment that the earth was commanded to exist, so long as it was created spinning on its axis.
 
If it is 100% accurate, then why have there been NO dino skeletons found along beside human skeletons?
Personally, I think you have an incorrect understanding of what life on earth was like through the first thousand or so years of its existence. The face of the earth was not covered with people for quite some time and so just like lions living in Africa, many dinosaur species may have lived in specific areas of the earth that were not much inhabited by people. Even if you have some tribal group that moved into the area of the dinosaurs, it's not like there would be millions of people living alongside them. Further, the human body doesn't last thousands of years decomposing. So, there could well have been many humans that lived among the dinosaurs, but we don't have their bones to see them there because they have decomposed, as God says, from ashes to ashes and dust to dust.

I asked earlier if you lived in an area of deer. You said that you did. How many deer carcasses did you count lying in the grass on your way to work? Living organisms don't last long after death. The only reason that we have some dinosaur examples, which surely you must admit we don't have enough to think that we have a majority of their remains, is because of some special circumstance that led to the creature's remains being much slower to decompose. Many assign the special circumstance as being the flood. That the act of within a very, very short time after death a creature being covered with tons of mud and silt being what has preserved the few that we have.

So, I would just be thoughtful about making some claim that is based on some sketchy understanding that you have of what life was like during the first several hundred years of its existence. Today bones last a bit longer because we put them in sealed caskets where the water doesn't get to them to break them down. 5,000 years ago people were just buried in shallow dirt graves or somewhere out of the 'camp'. These bodies, within a matter of a couple of years, would have broken down and disappeared as far as any evidence of the body having lain someplace after death. That's why you don't see dead deer carcasses all over the earth, despite the fact that we know that millions upon millions have died on the earth. So, expecting some proof to be that two dead carcasses are still laying around in close proximity after 4,000 years, is not likely to be found today. And, I believe, a highly questionable position as to factual accuracy.
 
There is NO indication that days changed when the sun came along, before or after.
I absolutely agree! And as far as I'm aware, that's not a position that I've mentioned as holding. All I'm saying is that realistically, without the sun, years don't pass. Because years are determined by the completion of an orbit around said sun. But the passing of years has absolutely nothing to do with the passage of time that equates a day.
What does it matter?
Because if that premise is true, then we know that the fall into sin came before any of them were born. Which means that it would have had to have been within the first 80-100 years of the earth's existence, or less. Remember all I said was that the Scriptures do give us some clues as to a period of time that we can know that the fall must have happened. I'm not trying to pinpoint a day or even week, month or year. I'm just saying that according to the time evidence found in the Scriptures, the fall had to happen before Cain and Abel were born. We know that they were born before Seth was born and that they were surely adult men when Cain killed Abel. Understanding that it takes a newborn child, which Cain and Abel would have been, some 20 years or so to grow to be adults, then the latest that the fall could have occurred would have been within that first hundred years of the existence of life upon the earth.

But personally, I believe the fall happened pretty soon after the creation event. Satan, the serpent, would have been keen on turning Adam and Eve away from their loyalty to their Creator pretty much as soon as they were created. So, and yes this is without any factual evidence, I believe that the fall likely happened within the first year or two of Adam's life. They were then banished from the garden and began having children as they were commanded to do.
 
So days will begin to pass from the very moment that the earth was commanded to exist, so long as it was created spinning on its axis.
In its earliest days, Earth was a hot, chaotic, and molten mass, surrounded by gas and dust that blocked sunlight. Over time, as the planet cooled and the atmosphere developed, light could finally reach the surface, transforming it into the bright world we see today.

As you say, you can not have a first day with no light.

The First Day

3And God said, “Let there be light,”a and there was light. 4And God saw that the light was good, and He separated the light from the darkness. 5God called the light “day,” and the darkness He called “night.”

And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day.b
 
Personally, I think you have an incorrect understanding of what life on earth was like through the first thousand or so years of its existence. The face of the earth was not covered with people for quite some time and so just like lions living in Africa, many dinosaur species may have lived in specific areas of the earth that were not much inhabited by people. Even if you have some tribal group that moved into the area of the dinosaurs, it's not like there would be millions of people living alongside them. Further, the human body doesn't last thousands of years decomposing. So, there could well have been many humans that lived among the dinosaurs, but we don't have their bones to see them there because they have decomposed, as God says, from ashes to ashes and dust to dust.

I asked earlier if you lived in an area of deer. You said that you did. How many deer carcasses did you count lying in the grass on your way to work? Living organisms don't last long after death. The only reason that we have some dinosaur examples, which surely you must admit we don't have enough to think that we have a majority of their remains, is because of some special circumstance that led to the creature's remains being much slower to decompose. Many assign the special circumstance as being the flood. That the act of within a very, very short time after death a creature being covered with tons of mud and silt being what has preserved the few that we have.

So, I would just be thoughtful about making some claim that is based on some sketchy understanding that you have of what life was like during the first several hundred years of its existence. Today bones last a bit longer because we put them in sealed caskets where the water doesn't get to them to break them down. 5,000 years ago people were just buried in shallow dirt graves or somewhere out of the 'camp'. These bodies, within a matter of a couple of years, would have broken down and disappeared as far as any evidence of the body having lain someplace after death. That's why you don't see dead deer carcasses all over the earth, despite the fact that we know that millions upon millions have died on the earth. So, expecting some proof to be that two dead carcasses are still laying around in close proximity after 4,000 years, is not likely to be found today. And, I believe, a highly questionable position as to factual accuracy.
God bless you my brother. Your thinking and opinions are very flawed!

Not just a little, but a lot!
 
No one knows. What you should be doing is wrapping that in a bundle of faith that somehow, man is not getting things tight. I already mentioned one possibility, that the past was not the same as today and basic forces and laws worked differently. there were all sorts of little creatures and bacteria like things etc etc that probably made a far more efficient recycling and disposal system for dead bodies. We could not figure that out by looking at todays laws and forces and today's creatures etc. So why would God not have had thing more perfect in the beginning for the cycle of life and rapid disposal of remains? Maybe in the beginning it was perfect and then after the fall, it was still closer to perfection than it is today! Maybe at first, after the fall, a few small creatures started to be able to leave remains. Later as time went by, more and more kinds of creatures started to be able to leave fossil remains. So if man was not able to leave any remain at all that would be there and fossilized when the dinos were also there and able to leave remains enough to be fossilized, so what? That does not mean all kinds were not here. It just means all kinds did not leave remains. Then, after the flood and my guess is about the time of the tower of Babel, our current nature and laws came into place. Since then I would deduce that the fossil record was accurate. Not before. Now the flood was probably 70 million imaginary years ago or some 4500 actual real years ago. The reason for that, once again, is that science uses only this present nature and laws to determine all dates.

God really was right all along

The proof that nature was the same does not exist. It is all a matter of belief and choice of what to believe. Since God spelled out what happened, there is no excuse to chose wrong.


If nature was the same, and there was no creation THEN your beliefs could be considered. Until then they are based not of facts or actual science but merely faith based. I have my own faith, thanks.
I appreciate your opinion but in the end, that is all it is.

There has been NO human bones found with dinosaur skeletons simply because dinosaurs did not coexist with humans.

Adam and Eve and no one else lived along side of dinos in Genesis.

The last of the dinosaurs perished approximately 66 million years ago during the Cretaceous-Paleogene extinction event. This leaves a vast gulf of time separating these two groups of creatures.....dinos and humans.

The geological time scale is a system of chronological measurement that relates stratigraphy to time. It’s developed through the study of rock layers (strata) and the fossils they contain. The placement of dinosaur fossils in Mesozoic Era rocks (Triassic, Jurassic, and Cretaceous periods) and human fossils in Cenozoic Era rocks (Paleogene, Neogene, and Quaternary periods) clearly demonstrates the separation. No credible fossil evidence exists to support the idea of human and non-avian dinosaur coexistence.
Source: https://enviroliteracy.org/animals/did-any-humans-live-with-dinosaurs/
 
The atmosphere was a lot different back then—pink instead of Blue today. They have ice core samples with air bubbles, so they know how much more humid it was. The only reptiles to survive are turtles and alligators. They both require very wet conditions. There were primates and mammals, but they were different from today.

Just like the age we live in now began when there was a change in the atmosphere and the ice melted. Today they like to call that global warming or the greenhouse effect. The ocean level is still going up. Miami changed their codes and you have to build three feet higher now. Of course New Orleans is already under sea level.
There has never been any human remains found with dino's remains because they were separated by 65 million years.

According to meteorologist Tom Skilling, it was actually much the same, at least back in dinosaur times.

Dinosaurs lived from 245 million to 65 million years ago, and the same kinds of cumulus clouds that you observe in our present-day summer sky assuredly populated the dinosaurs’ sky as well. The laws of atmospheric physics are immutable. Even assuming the gaseous composition of the Earth's atmosphere was somewhat different during the age of the dinosaurs, the nature of water vapor and the atmospheric processes that produce cumulus clouds have not changed with time.
Source: https://ask.metafilter.com/194137/What-color-was-the-sky-millions-or-billions-of-years-ago
 
Can you explain how ANY opinion would have a flaw ?
I think that you would agree that discussions/arguments are attempts to persuade others by providing reasons in support of a particular claim or conclusion which are almost always tainted with a bias or an agenda.

When reasoning is effected by our bias on a subject, it always leads to incorrect conclusions and affects decision-making on the topic at hand.

Opinions are useful to persuade, but upon careful reading, or listening, most people will notice and demand evidence to back them up.
 
Hi daddd

While it's only a matter of three days, years cannot be counted without the sun existing. Years are literally the time it takes the planet to orbit the sun. No sun... no orbit. Days, on the other hand are the length of time that it takes for a planet to make one full rotation on its axis. So days will begin to pass from the very moment that the earth was commanded to exist, so long as it was created spinning on its axis.
Right, there was no time to count a year yet on day three or four. I suppose they could have counted it a something like 1/200th of a year. The sun is not needed for days. It was put here to help us mark them and heat etc etc. Neither will it be needed in the new world
 
I absolutely agree! And as far as I'm aware, that's not a position that I've mentioned as holding. All I'm saying is that realistically, without the sun, years don't pass. Because years are determined by the completion of an orbit around said sun. But the passing of years has absolutely nothing to do with the passage of time that equates a day.

Because if that premise is true, then we know that the fall into sin came before any of them were born. Which means that it would have had to have been within the first 80-100 years of the earth's existence, or less. Remember all I said was that the Scriptures do give us some clues as to a period of time that we can know that the fall must have happened. I'm not trying to pinpoint a day or even week, month or year. I'm just saying that according to the time evidence found in the Scriptures, the fall had to happen before Cain and Abel were born. We know that they were born before Seth was born and that they were surely adult men when Cain killed Abel. Understanding that it takes a newborn child, which Cain and Abel would have been, some 20 years or so to grow to be adults, then the latest that the fall could have occurred would have been within that first hundred years of the existence of life upon the earth.
Gen 5:3 And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness, and after his image; and called his name Seth

That sounds about right. Seth was post fall. So it could not have been more than 130 years.


But personally, I believe the fall happened pretty soon after the creation event. Satan, the serpent, would have been keen on turning Adam and Eve away from their loyalty to their Creator pretty much as soon as they were created.
He may have been keen, but it also may not have been easy and fast. He may have been working on it for awhile

Just like he was working on nations like Canada and the west for awhile before they got to the state they are in
 
I appreciate your opinion but in the end, that is all it is.
As is yours
There has been NO human bones found with dinosaur skeletons simply because dinosaurs did not coexist with humans.
Says you. That is false. Dinos were not created before man. In fact they possibly could have been adapted from kinds that already existed into a large form. (such as birds, reptiles etc) You don't get to make a statement that they did not coexist. I already explained that if the past was different, bones could not represent the full range of life. Period.
Adam and Eve and no one else lived along side of dinos in Genesis.
Unless dinos quickly evolved/adapted from other existing kinds, and it took some more than 9 centuries to do, then yes Adam and dinos were here together.
The last of the dinosaurs perished approximately 66 million years ago during the Cretaceous-Paleogene extinction event. This leaves a vast gulf of time separating these two groups of creatures.....dinos and humans.
Actual time is about 4500 years ago. Your dates are bad religion and cannot be supported and are only falsely thought of as science. Really
The geological time scale is a system of chronological measurement that relates stratigraphy to time.
Nonsense. It links to la la land imaginary time. It simply assigns belief based dates to existing strata.
It’s developed through the study of rock layers (strata) and the fossils they contain.
In other words based on the belief that all creatures died and had remains that acted the same. Ho hum. No possible proof for that. It is a faith based belief that the past was the same in basic nature and that this nature is responsible for all we see!

God was right all along
 
According to meteorologist Tom Skilling, it was actually much the same, at least back in dinosaur times.
During the time of the dinosaurs, Earth's atmosphere was quite different from today. Here are some key differences:

  • Higher Carbon Dioxide Levels: The atmosphere had five times more CO₂ than today, making the climate much warmer and more humid.
  • Higher Oxygen Levels: Some studies suggest that oxygen levels were around 35%, compared to today's 21%, which may have contributed to the large size of dinosaurs and other prehistoric creatures.
  • Volcanic Activity: Frequent volcanic eruptions released massive amounts of gases, shaping the climate and possibly affecting sky color and air composition.
  • Different Air Composition: The balance of gases was different, influencing plant growth and animal adaptations.
These atmospheric conditions created a world that was much hotter, with lush vegetation and giant creatures thriving in a very different environment!
 
In its earliest days, Earth was a hot, chaotic, and molten mass, surrounded by gas and dust that blocked sunlight.
No, in the earliest days the earth was exactly like it is now, but covered with water. Nothing blocked out the sunlight. That was the entire purpose of God's creating the atmosphere. That the sunlight would make all the vegetation grow and the rains would fall from the clouds of water above the earth. As I understand the Scriptures, when God first spoke the earth to exist from nothing, it was a ball of mass covered in water. And I believe it was spinning from the very first moment of God's speaking it to be.
As you say, you can not have a first day with no light.
And I never said that. There can be absolutely no light in the entirety of the universe, but if the planet that God created within it was spinning at the moment of its coming to exist, then as soon as it spun once upon its axis a day would have passed. It would have been a dark day.
 
God bless you my brother. Your thinking and opinions are very flawed!

Not just a little, but a lot!
Maybe, but they can be confirmed within the Scriptures. They just can't be confirmed through the scientific method.
There has never been any human remains found with dino's remains because they were separated by 65 million years.
As has been previously explained, that's not the only reason that we might not find any human remains alongside of dinosaurs. You can't present that with any evidence to prove its truth.
 
No, in the earliest days the earth was exactly like it is now,
What I posted was a direct quote from AI. That is fairly dependable as to what Science has to say. For me as a Theistic Evolutionist, I see no conflict between Science and the Bible. In fact, Science along with history gives us the best evidence we have in how accurage and true the Bible is.

It's fascinating how archaeology continues to provide insights that align with historical and biblical accounts. The story of Joshua and the Battle of Jericho is one of the most well-known biblical narratives, and the ruins of Jericho remain a subject of study. Some excavations suggest that parts of the ancient walls may still be visible.

The fact that ancient structures like Jericho’s walls have endured for thousands of years is remarkable, especially considering how often materials from old cities were repurposed. It speaks to the significance of the site and the lasting impact of its history.

If you're interested, we can share more about archaeological discoveries that have supported biblical narratives!
 
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