Bible Study Old Testament

[Squeaky]

ABOUT THE OLD TESTAMENT

FROM THE NEW TESTAMENT

Heb 8:13

13In that He says, "A new covenant," He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.

2 Cor 3:14-15

14But their minds were blinded. For until this day the same veil remains unlifted in the reading of the Old Testament, because the veil is taken away in Christ.

15But even to this day, when Moses is read, a veil lies on their heart.

Gal 2:21

21"I do not set aside the grace of God; for if righteousness comes through the law, then Christ died in vain."

Gal 4:4-5

4But when the fullness of the time had come, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the law,

5to redeem those who were under the law, that we might receive the adoption as sons.

John 10:8-9

8"All who ever came before Me are thieves and robbers, but the sheep did not hear them.

9"I am the door. If anyone enters by Me, he will be saved, and will go in and out and find pasture.

1 Cor 10:1-12

1Moreover, brethren, I do not want you to be unaware that all our fathers were under the cloud, all passed through the sea,

2all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea,

3all ate the same spiritual food,

4and all drank the same spiritual drink. For they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them, and that Rock was Christ.

5But with most of them God was not well pleased, for their bodies were scattered in the wilderness.

6Now these things became our examples, to the intent that we should not lust after evil things as they also lusted.

7And do not become idolaters as were some of them. As it is written, "The people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to play."

8Nor let us commit sexual immorality, as some of them did, and in one day twenty-three thousand fell;

9nor let us tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed by serpents;

10nor complain, as some of them also complained, and were destroyed by the destroyer.

11Now all these things happened to them as examples, and they were written for our admonition, on whom the ends of the ages have come.

12Therefore let him who thinks he stands take heed lest he fall.

Rom 13:8

8Owe no one anything except to love one another, for he who loves another has fulfilled the law.

John 6:63

63"It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life.

John 4:23-24

23"But the hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for the Father is seeking such to worship Him.

24"God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth."

John 17:17

17"Sanctify them by Your truth. Your word is truth.

John 3:34

34"For He whom God has sent speaks the words of God, for God does not give the Spirit by measure.

John 3:33

33"He who has received His testimony has certified that God is true.

John 3:35-36

35"The Father loves the Son, and has given all things into His hand.

36"He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him."

Rom 8:1-2

1There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit.

2For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death.

Rom 8:3-8

3For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh,

4that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.

5For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit.

6For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.

7Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be.

8So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

John 14:26

26"But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you.

Gal 2:19-21

19"For I through the law died to the law that I might live to God.

20"I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me.

21"I do not set aside the grace of God; for if righteousness comes through the law, then Christ died in vain."

Gal 3:24-25

24Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

25But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.

Gal 5:1-5

1Stand fast therefore in the liberty by which Christ has made us free, and do not be entangled again with a yoke of bondage.

2Indeed I, Paul, say to you that if you become circumcised, Christ will profit you nothing.

3And I testify again to every man who becomes circumcised that he is a debtor to keep the whole law.

4You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.

5For we through the Spirit eagerly wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.

Gal 4:21

21Tell me, you who desire to be under the law, do you not hear the law?

Rom 7:4-6

4Therefore, my brethren, you also have become dead to the law through the body of Christ, that you may be married to another-- to Him who was raised from the dead, that we should bear fruit to God.

5For when we were in the flesh, the sinful passions which were aroused by the law were at work in our members to bear fruit to death.

6But now we have been delivered from the law, having died to what we were held by, so that we should serve in the newness of the Spirit and not in the oldness of the letter.

Rom 13:10

10Love does no harm to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.

1 Pet 2:19-21

19For this is commendable, if because of conscience toward God one endures grief, suffering wrongfully.

20For what credit is it if, when you are beaten for your faults, you take it patiently? But when you do good and suffer, if you take it patiently, this is commendable before God.

21For to this you were called, because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that you should follow His steps:

II Jn 1:9-11

9Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son.

10If anyone comes to you and does not bring this doctrine, do not receive him into your house nor greet him;

11for he who greets him shares in his evil deeds.

John 1:17

17For the law was given through Moses, but grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.

(NKJ)



xxx Jesus wants everyone who is going to be a christian to understand that the new covenant(testament) is just that new. That you cant go back and keep any part of the old testament that Jesus hasnt brought over to the new testament. Jesus new what to bring over man doesnt. But the old testament has to be obsolete to you in order for you to get the fullness of the new testament. 1John 1-9 is very specific if you dont abide(live) in the new testament you dont have the real God. There IS a veil over the old testament that remains to THIS day.

If Jesus were in the old testament this verse could only be meant for God and the angels. But Jesus wasnt in the old testament.



John 10:8-9

8"All who ever came before Me are thieves and robbers, but the sheep did not hear them.

9"I am the door. If anyone enters by Me, he will be saved, and will go in and out and find pasture.



xxx Jesus nailed the old testament to the cross. If you have nailed the old testament to your cross, you are in Christianity. Jesus brought over to the new testament somethings that were good. But what He didnt bring over and you keep it can condemn you.



Col 2:13-14

13And you, being dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He has made alive together with Him, having forgiven you all trespasses,

14having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.

(NKJ)



Acts 15:10

10"Now therefore, why do you test God by putting a yoke on the neck of the disciples which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?

(NKJ)



Acts 15:24-29

24Since we have heard that some who went out from us have troubled you with words, unsettling your souls, saying, 'You must be circumcised and keep the law'-- to whom we gave no such commandment--

25it seemed good to us, being assembled with one accord, to send chosen men to you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul,

26men who have risked their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ.

27We have therefore sent Judas and Silas, who will also report the same things by word of mouth.

28For it seemed good to the Holy Spirit, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things:

29that you abstain from things offered to idols, from blood, from things strangled, and from sexual immorality. If you keep yourselves from these, you will do well. Farewell.

(NKJ)

 

[Squeaky]

Rom 2:1-29



1Therefore you are inexcusable, O man, whoever you are who judge, for in whatever you judge another you condemn yourself; for you who judge practice the same things.

2But we know that the judgment of God is according to truth against those who practice such things.

3And do you think this, O man, you who judge those practicing such things, and doing the same, that you will escape the judgment of God?

4Or do you despise the riches of His goodness, forbearance, and longsuffering, not knowing that the goodness of God leads you to repentance?

5But in accordance with your hardness and your impenitent heart you are treasuring up for yourself wrath in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God,

6who "will render to each one according to his deeds":

7eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality;

8but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness-- indignation and wrath,

9tribulation and anguish, on every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek;

10but glory, honor, and peace to everyone who works what is good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.

11For there is no partiality with God.

12For as many as have sinned without law will also perish without law, and as many as have sinned in the law will be judged by the law

13(for not the hearers of the law are just in the sight of God, but the doers of the law will be justified;

14for when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do the things in the law, these, although not having the law, are a law to themselves,

15who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them)

16in the day when God will judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ, according to my gospel.

17Indeed you are called a Jew, and rest on the law, and make your boast in God,

18and know His will, and approve the things that are excellent, being instructed out of the law,

19and are confident that you yourself are a guide to the blind, a light to those who are in darkness,

20an instructor of the foolish, a teacher of babes, having the form of knowledge and truth in the law.

21You, therefore, who teach another, do you not teach yourself? You who preach that a man should not steal, do you steal?

22You who say, "Do not commit adultery," do you commit adultery? You who abhor idols, do you rob temples?

23You who make your boast in the law, do you dishonor God through breaking the law?

24For "The name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles because of you," as it is written.

25For circumcision is indeed profitable if you keep the law; but if you are a breaker of the law, your circumcision has become uncircumcision.

26Therefore, if an uncircumcised man keeps the righteous requirements of the law, will not his uncircumcision be counted as circumcision?

27And will not the physically uncircumcised, if he fulfills the law, judge you who, even with your written code and circumcision, are a transgressor of the law?

28For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh;

29but he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the Spirit, not in the letter; whose praise is not from men but from God.

(NKJ)





Heb 8:7

7For if that first covenant had been faultless, then no place would have been sought for a second.

(NKJ)



Heb 10:1



1For the law, having a shadow of the good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with these same sacrifices, which they offer continually year by year, make those who approach perfect.

(NKJ)





Col 2:11-14

11In Him you were also circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of the sins of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ,

12buried with Him in baptism, in which you also were raised with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead.

13And you, being dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He has made alive together with Him, having forgiven you all trespasses,

14having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.

(NKJ)





Heb 10:9

9then He said, "Behold, I have come to do Your will, O God." He takes away the first that He may establish the second.

(NKJ)





Gal 5:1-4



1Stand fast therefore in the liberty by which Christ has made us free, and do not be entangled again with a yoke of bondage.

2Indeed I, Paul, say to you that if you become circumcised, Christ will profit you nothing.

3And I testify again to every man who becomes circumcised that he is a debtor to keep the whole law.

4You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.

(NKJ)

Luke 16:13

13"No servant can serve two masters; for either he will hate the one and love the other, or else he will be loyal to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and mammon."





Gal 3:10

10For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse; for it is written, "Cursed is everyone who does not continue in all things which are written in the book of the law, to do them."

(NKJ)





Rom 7:1-4

1Or do you not know, brethren (for I speak to those who know the law), that the law has dominion over a man as long as he lives?

2For the woman who has a husband is bound by the law to her husband as long as he lives. But if the husband dies, she is released from the law of her husband.

3So then if, while her husband lives, she marries another man, she will be called an adulteress; but if her husband dies, she is free from that law, so that she is no adulteress, though she has married another man.

4Therefore, my brethren, you also have become dead to the law through the body of Christ, that you may be married to another-- to Him who was raised from the dead, that we should bear fruit to God.

(NKJ)



Rom 11:28

28Concerning the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but concerning the election they are beloved for the sake of the fathers.

(NKJ)



Gal 5:11

11And I, brethren, if I still preach circumcision, why do I still suffer persecution? Then the offense of the cross has ceased.

(NKJ)



Acts 21:20-21

20And when they heard it, they glorified the Lord. And they said to him, "You see, brother, how many myriads of Jews there are who have believed, and they are all zealous for the law;

21"but they have been informed about you that you teach all the Jews who are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, saying that they ought not to circumcise their children nor to walk according to the customs.

(NKJ)







xxx Jesus nailed the old testament to the cross. If you have nailed the old testament to your cross, you are in Christianity.





Jesus changed the priesthood,He changed the Law, He annulled the commandments, and He made the covenant obsolete.



Heb 7:11-12

11Therefore, if perfection were through the Levitical priesthood (for under it the people received the law), what further need was there that another priest should rise according to the order of Melchizedek, and not be called according to the order of Aaron?

12For the priesthood being changed, of necessity there is also a change of the law.

(NKJ)



Heb 7:18

18For on the one hand there is an annulling of the former commandment because of its weakness and unprofitableness,

(NKJ)



Heb 8:13

13In that He says, "A new covenant," He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.

(NKJ)

 

[Pegasus]

What about the OT prophecies yet to be fulfilled?

Why did Jesus tell His disciples the following:

Luke 24: NKJV

44 Then He said to them, “These are the words which I spoke to you while I was still with you, that all things must be fulfilled which were written in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms concerning Me.” 45 And He opened their understanding, that they might comprehend the Scriptures.

46 Then He said to them, “Thus it is written, and thus it was necessary for the Christ to suffer and to rise from the dead the third day, 47 and that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in His name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. 48 And you are witnesses of these things. 49 Behold, I send the Promise of My Father upon you; but tarry in the city of Jerusalem[i] until you are endued with power from on high.”


Why did the NT writers extensively quote and allude to the OT to establish truth claims?

Link here showing how many times the NT writers said it is written:

https://www.blueletterbible.org/search/search.cfm?Criteria=It+is+written&t=KJV#s=s_primary_0_1

https://www.blueletterbible.org/search/search.cfm?Criteria=It+is+written&t=KJV#s=s_primary_0_2

NT references to the Scriptures:

https://www.blueletterbible.org/search/search.cfm?Criteria=It+is+written&t=KJV#s=s_primary_0_2

There are 855 quotes and or allusions to the OT in the NT.

https://www.blueletterbible.org/study/misc/quotes.cfm

 

[Pegasus]

More:

http://www.kalvesmaki.com/LXX/NTChart.htm

 

[Squeaky]

What about the OT prophecies yet to be fulfilled?

Why did Jesus tell His disciples the following:

Luke 24: NKJV

44 Then He said to them, “These are the words which I spoke to you while I was still with you, that all things must be fulfilled which were written in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms concerning Me.” 45 And He opened their understanding, that they might comprehend the Scriptures.

46 Then He said to them, “Thus it is written, and thus it was necessary for the Christ to suffer and to rise from the dead the third day, 47 and that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in His name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. 48 And you are witnesses of these things. 49 Behold, I send the Promise of My Father upon you; but tarry in the city of Jerusalem[i] until you are endued with power from on high.”


Why did the NT writers extensively quote and allude to the OT to establish truth claims?

Link here showing how many times the NT writers said it is written:

https://www.blueletterbible.org/search/search.cfm?Criteria=It+is+written&t=KJV#s=s_primary_0_1

https://www.blueletterbible.org/search/search.cfm?Criteria=It+is+written&t=KJV#s=s_primary_0_2

NT references to the Scriptures:

https://www.blueletterbible.org/search/search.cfm?Criteria=It+is+written&t=KJV#s=s_primary_0_2

There are 855 quotes and or allusions to the OT in the NT.

https://www.blueletterbible.org/study/misc/quotes.cfm

I said
Keep it simple. If it is in the new testament Jesus brought it over. We are not to bring anything over on our own. If we keep any part of the old testament that Jesus hasn't brought over we will fall from grace.

[Gal 5:1-4
1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty by which Christ has made us free, and do not be entangled again with a yoke of bondage.
2 Indeed I, Paul, say to you that if you become circumcised, Christ will profit you nothing.
3 And I testify again to every man who becomes circumcised that he is a debtor to keep the whole law.
4 You have become estranged from Christ, you who [attempt to] be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.

 

[for_his_glory]

I have no idea how to interact in a Bible study that has no structure to discuss. No one is going to read page after page of scriptures. What I gather from the small amount of dialect is that you believe we no longer need the OT nor the laws that God gave. Even the Apostles taught from the OT as it is a shadow of things to come found in the NT, even to the return of Christ. You would do better to not use so much scripture and get to the point of what you are trying to teach.

Jesus never did away with the OT laws, but came to fulfill the sacrificial laws of the Temple. The moral laws still stand today as the day God gave them.

Matthew 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. 18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. 19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

 

[Squeaky]

I have no idea how to interact in a Bible study that has no structure to discuss. No one is going to read page after page of scriptures. What I gather from the small amount of dialect is that you believe we no longer need the OT nor the laws that God gave. Even the Apostles taught from the OT as it is a shadow of things to come found in the NT, even to the return of Christ. You would do better to not use so much scripture and get to the point of what you are trying to teach.

Jesus never did away with the OT laws, but came to fulfill the sacrificial laws of the Temple. The moral laws still stand today as the day God gave them.

Matthew 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. 18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. 19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

I said
Well maybe that is the difference. I have no idea of how to interact in a bible study without proving what I say with scripture. I haven't met so many people that claim to discuss the scriptures without using the scriptures to prove what they say.
[Mat 12:33-37
33 "Either make the tree good and its fruit good, or else make the tree bad and its fruit bad; for a tree is known by [its] fruit.
34 "Brood of vipers! How can you, being evil, speak good things? For out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks.
35 "A good man out of the good treasure of his heart brings forth good things, and an evil man out of the evil treasure brings forth evil things.
36 "But I say to you that for every idle word men may speak, they will give account of it in the day of judgment.
37 "For by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned."

 

[for_his_glory]

You said nothing. You are not giving any proof of anything as you are not teaching anything to be proved. There is no structure or subject matter we can discuss. By reading all these scriptures you seem to be presenting we no longer need the OT and should just throw it away. If that is what you are trying to present, as I have no clue, that is a dangerous teaching and not of God.

 

[Squeaky]

You said nothing. You are not giving any proof of anything as you are not teaching anything to be proved. There is no structure or subject matter we can discuss. By reading all these scriptures you seem to be presenting we no longer need the OT and should just throw it away. If that is what you are trying to present, as I have no clue, that is a dangerous teaching and not of God.

I said
Your getting it. What did Jesus say?

[Jhn 10:1, 8
1 "Most assuredly, I say to you, he who does not enter the sheepfold by the door, but climbs up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber. ...
8 "All who [ever] came before Me are thieves and robbers, but the sheep did not hear them.

Look again, if you keep any part of the old testament that Jesus hasn't brought over to the new testament. You will fall from grace.

[Gal 5:1-4
1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty by which Christ has made us free, and do not be entangled again with a yoke of bondage.
2 Indeed I, Paul, say to you that if you become circumcised, Christ will profit you nothing.
3 And I testify again to every man who becomes circumcised that he is a debtor to keep the whole law.
4 You have become estranged from Christ, you who [attempt to] be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.

 

[for_his_glory]

Sorry, but Jesus was before the foundation of the world and has always been the word of God in the OT and the word of God in the NT come in the flesh to walk among man teaching that of the old covenant and that of a better covenant of Gods grace, John 1:1-14; John 12:49, 50. Nothing has ever changed in the Levtical laws other than the Temple sacrifice as Jesus fulfilled that law, Matthew 5:17-20, but yet the rest exist until all things are fulfilled when He returns on the last day, John 6:40. All of scripture is Gods love for those who believe in Him and are obedient to His commandments. We either receive His blessings or His cursing, Deuteronomy Chapter 27, 28.

There are laws (commandments) that were especially written just for the Hebrews pertaining to the rituals of the Temple, sacrifices, festivals, Torah, Kohanim and Levites, the King and the Nazarite and then there are the existing moral laws (commandments) for all of us to still follow as in prayers and blessings, love and brotherhood, the poor and unfortunate, treatment of the Gentiles, Marriage, divorce and family, forbidden sexual relations, business practices, employees and servants, vows, oaths, swearing, Court and Judicial procedures, injuries and damages, property and property rights, Criminal laws, prophecy, idolatry and all its practices as the moral laws (commandments) keep us in line with the will of God that we present ourselves a vessel of honor that God delights in as we allow the light of Christ shine in us and through us as a testimony of Gods grace and mercy as it is not ourselves that do any good thing, but Gods Spirit working in us and through us as we surrender our will to that of Gods will to be done.

Matthew 22:
35 Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting him, and saying,
36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38 This is the first and great commandment.
39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

 

[Squeaky]

Sorry but Jesus never was the Word of God. In the old testament God told you that He would raise up a prophet(Jesus) and put His Word in Him.

[Deu 18:18-19

18 'I will raise up for them a Prophet like you from among their brethren, and will put My words in His mouth, and He shall speak to them all that I command Him.

19 'And it shall be [that] whoever will not hear My words, which He speaks in My name, I will require [it] of him.


And in the new testament Jesus told you.

[Jhn 12:48-50
48 "He who rejects Me, and does not receive My words, has that which judges him--the word that I have spoken will judge him in the last day.
49 "For I have not spoken on My own [authority]; but the Father who sent Me gave Me a command, what I should say and what I should speak.
50 "And I know that His command is everlasting life. Therefore, whatever I speak, just as the Father has told Me, so I speak."

 

[for_his_glory]

So you do not think that John 1:1-14 is speaking about Jesus?

There are many scriptures where Jesus speaks about himself being before the foundation of the world as He is the word and life that is God. God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit. It's all God's Spirit. God did not create Jesus as He has always been. This is deity. Jesus is Yahweh which is the Hebrew name for God in the OT. It's translated LORD in many English Bibles and is used over 5,300 times in the OT.

These are but a few scriptures that explain Jesus from before the foundation of the world.

Isaiah 9:6; 44:6-8; John 1:1-14; 8:56-58; 1 John 1:1, 2; 1 Corinthians 10:1-4; Colossians 1:14-17; 1 Timothy 3:16; Revelation 1:17, 18; 22:12, 13

 

[ezra]

I have no idea how to interact in a Bible study that has no structure to discuss. No one is going to read page after page of scriptures. What I gather from the small amount of dialect is that you believe we no longer need the OT nor the laws that God gave. Even the Apostles taught from the OT as it is a shadow of things to come found in the NT, even to the return of Christ. You would do better to not use so much scripture and get to the point of what you are trying to teach.

Jesus never did away with the OT laws, but came to fulfill the sacrificial laws of the Temple. The moral laws still stand today as the day God gave them.

Matthew 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. 18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. 19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

the old backs the new we need the o.t help have better understanding of the new

 

[ezra]

Sorry but Jesus never was the Word of God. In the old testament God told you that He would raise up a prophet(Jesus) and put His Word in Him.

[Deu 18:18-19

18 'I will raise up for them a Prophet like you from among their brethren, and will put My words in His mouth, and He shall speak to them all that I command Him.

19 'And it shall be [that] whoever will not hear My words, which He speaks in My name, I will require [it] of him.


And in the new testament Jesus told you.

[Jhn 12:48-50
48 "He who rejects Me, and does not receive My words, has that which judges him--the word that I have spoken will judge him in the last day.
49 "For I have not spoken on My own [authority]; but the Father who sent Me gave Me a command, what I should say and what I should speak.
50 "And I know that His command is everlasting life. Therefore, whatever I speak, just as the Father has told Me, so I speak."

left field theology

 

[Squeaky]

So you do not think that John 1:1-14 is speaking about Jesus?

There are many scriptures where Jesus speaks about himself being before the foundation of the world as He is the word and life that is God. God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit. It's all God's Spirit. God did not create Jesus as He has always been. This is deity. Jesus is Yahweh which is the Hebrew name for God in the OT. It's translated LORD in many English Bibles and is used over 5,300 times in the OT.

These are but a few scriptures that explain Jesus from before the foundation of the world.

Isaiah 9:6; 44:6-8; John 1:1-14; 8:56-58; 1 John 1:1, 2; 1 Corinthians 10:1-4; Colossians 1:14-17; 1 Timothy 3:16; Revelation 1:17, 18; 22:12, 13

I said
I just showed you that Jesus was not the Word. Your getting off into your imagination. The bible does NOT SAY God the Son, or God the Holy Spirit. Jesus wasn't even in the old testament. I agree He was in the beginning. But He didn't make an appearance until the new testament. Your getting outside the rules of believing. Don't think beyond what is written, and don't add one thing to the verses or take one thing away from the verses.

[1Co 4:6
6 Now these things, brethren, I have figuratively transferred to myself and Apollos for your sakes, that you may learn in us not to think beyond what is written, that none of you may be puffed up on behalf of one against the other.

[Rev 22:18-19
18 For I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book;
19 and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the Book of Life, from the holy city, and [from] the things which are written in this book.

 

[JLB]

Rom 2:1-29



1Therefore you are inexcusable, O man, whoever you are who judge, for in whatever you judge another you condemn yourself; for you who judge practice the same things.

2But we know that the judgment of God is according to truth against those who practice such things.

3And do you think this, O man, you who judge those practicing such things, and doing the same, that you will escape the judgment of God?

4Or do you despise the riches of His goodness, forbearance, and longsuffering, not knowing that the goodness of God leads you to repentance?

5But in accordance with your hardness and your impenitent heart you are treasuring up for yourself wrath in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God,

6who "will render to each one according to his deeds":

7eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality;

8but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness-- indignation and wrath,

9tribulation and anguish, on every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek;

10but glory, honor, and peace to everyone who works what is good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.

11For there is no partiality with God.

12For as many as have sinned without law will also perish without law, and as many as have sinned in the law will be judged by the law

13(for not the hearers of the law are just in the sight of God, but the doers of the law will be justified;

14for when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do the things in the law, these, although not having the law, are a law to themselves,

15who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them)

16in the day when God will judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ, according to my gospel.

17Indeed you are called a Jew, and rest on the law, and make your boast in God,

18and know His will, and approve the things that are excellent, being instructed out of the law,

19and are confident that you yourself are a guide to the blind, a light to those who are in darkness,

20an instructor of the foolish, a teacher of babes, having the form of knowledge and truth in the law.

21You, therefore, who teach another, do you not teach yourself? You who preach that a man should not steal, do you steal?

22You who say, "Do not commit adultery," do you commit adultery? You who abhor idols, do you rob temples?

23You who make your boast in the law, do you dishonor God through breaking the law?

24For "The name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles because of you," as it is written.

25For circumcision is indeed profitable if you keep the law; but if you are a breaker of the law, your circumcision has become uncircumcision.

26Therefore, if an uncircumcised man keeps the righteous requirements of the law, will not his uncircumcision be counted as circumcision?

27And will not the physically uncircumcised, if he fulfills the law, judge you who, even with your written code and circumcision, are a transgressor of the law?

28For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh;

29but he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the Spirit, not in the letter; whose praise is not from men but from God.

(NKJ)





Heb 8:7

7For if that first covenant had been faultless, then no place would have been sought for a second.

(NKJ)



Heb 10:1



1For the law, having a shadow of the good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with these same sacrifices, which they offer continually year by year, make those who approach perfect.

(NKJ)





Col 2:11-14

11In Him you were also circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of the sins of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ,

12buried with Him in baptism, in which you also were raised with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead.

13And you, being dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He has made alive together with Him, having forgiven you all trespasses,

14having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.

(NKJ)





Heb 10:9

9then He said, "Behold, I have come to do Your will, O God." He takes away the first that He may establish the second.

(NKJ)





Gal 5:1-4



1Stand fast therefore in the liberty by which Christ has made us free, and do not be entangled again with a yoke of bondage.

2Indeed I, Paul, say to you that if you become circumcised, Christ will profit you nothing.

3And I testify again to every man who becomes circumcised that he is a debtor to keep the whole law.

4You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.

(NKJ)

Luke 16:13

13"No servant can serve two masters; for either he will hate the one and love the other, or else he will be loyal to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and mammon."





Gal 3:10

10For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse; for it is written, "Cursed is everyone who does not continue in all things which are written in the book of the law, to do them."

(NKJ)





Rom 7:1-4

1Or do you not know, brethren (for I speak to those who know the law), that the law has dominion over a man as long as he lives?

2For the woman who has a husband is bound by the law to her husband as long as he lives. But if the husband dies, she is released from the law of her husband.

3So then if, while her husband lives, she marries another man, she will be called an adulteress; but if her husband dies, she is free from that law, so that she is no adulteress, though she has married another man.

4Therefore, my brethren, you also have become dead to the law through the body of Christ, that you may be married to another-- to Him who was raised from the dead, that we should bear fruit to God.

(NKJ)



Rom 11:28

28Concerning the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but concerning the election they are beloved for the sake of the fathers.

(NKJ)



Gal 5:11

11And I, brethren, if I still preach circumcision, why do I still suffer persecution? Then the offense of the cross has ceased.

(NKJ)



Acts 21:20-21

20And when they heard it, they glorified the Lord. And they said to him, "You see, brother, how many myriads of Jews there are who have believed, and they are all zealous for the law;

21"but they have been informed about you that you teach all the Jews who are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, saying that they ought not to circumcise their children nor to walk according to the customs.

(NKJ)







xxx Jesus nailed the old testament to the cross. If you have nailed the old testament to your cross, you are in Christianity.





Jesus changed the priesthood,He changed the Law, He annulled the commandments, and He made the covenant obsolete.



Heb 7:11-12

11Therefore, if perfection were through the Levitical priesthood (for under it the people received the law), what further need was there that another priest should rise according to the order of Melchizedek, and not be called according to the order of Aaron?

12For the priesthood being changed, of necessity there is also a change of the law.

(NKJ)



Heb 7:18

18For on the one hand there is an annulling of the former commandment because of its weakness and unprofitableness,

(NKJ)



Heb 8:13

13In that He says, "A new covenant," He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.

(NKJ)

What’s your point?

 

[for_his_glory]

If you do not believe the scriptures I gave and you think we need to do away with the OT as it is not important for our learning it's time for me to walk away. You have a good day.

 

[for_his_glory]

What’s your point?

JLB, all you are going to get is "I said" as there is not point or subject matter to discuss, just a bunch of random scriptures.

 

[JLB]

JLB, all you are going to get is "I said" as there is not point or subject matter to discuss, just a bunch of random scriptures.

Oh.

Ok. Thanks.

 

[for_his_glory]

the old backs the new we need the o.t help have better understanding of the new

Exactly, as how would we know Gods omnipotence, omniscience, and omnipresence.