"Once Saved Always Saved" DOES NOT MEAN SIN IS OKAY

[JoJo]

Reposting this from another thread which has strayed off-topic:

It bothers me deeply when people have preconceived notions about churches that teach "once saved, always saved" and think they are condoning sin. They are not! I will adamantly defend them until somebody somewhere finally realizes that "once saved, always saved" does not mean it is okay to sin.

And just to be clear: IT IS NOT OKAY TO SIN.

I grew up in a Baptist church (obviously) with Nazarene relatives outside of my own parents. I don't know how many arguments and debates went on between my family members, but most of the confusion came from some relatives thinking that "once saved, always saved" meant that it is okay to sin. Meanwhile, in our Baptist church, my family would hear countless sermons on the dangers of sin.

Note: This thread is NOT intended to become a debate on whether "once saved, always saved" is correct or not. This thread IS intended to point out the errors (or defend the stance) of preconceived notions about churches that teach eternal security.

 

[jasoncran]

Reposting this from another thread which has strayed off-topic:

It bothers me deeply when people have preconceived notions about churches that teach "once saved, always saved" and think they are condoning sin. They are not! I will adamantly defend them until somebody somewhere finally realizes that "once saved, always saved" does not mean it is okay to sin.

And just to be clear: IT IS NOT OKAY TO SIN.

I grew up in a Baptist church (obviously) with Nazarene relatives outside of my own parents. I don't know how many arguments and debates went on between my family members, but most of the confusion came from some relatives thinking that "once saved, always saved" meant that it is okay to sin. Meanwhile, in our Baptist church, my family would hear countless sermons on the dangers of sin.

Note: This thread is NOT intended to become a debate on whether "once saved, always saved" is correct or not. This thread IS intended to point out the errors (or defend the stance) of preconceived notions about churches that teach eternal security.

i listen to adrian rogers of love worth finding and my church has osas doctrine, both state that it is not ok to sin and there are reprucussions in the flesh and it strains the relationship with the lord.

however, for the record, i dont beleive in osas. and i will defend that later.

 

[JoJo]

i listen to adrian rogers of love worth finding and my church has osas doctrine, both state that it is not ok to sin and there are reprucussions in the flesh and it strains the relationship with the lord.

however, for the record, i dont beleive in osas. and i will defend that later.

Thanks, Jason. But please not here in this thread.

 

[jasoncran]

i listen to adrian rogers of love worth finding and my church has osas doctrine, both state that it is not ok to sin and there are reprucussions in the flesh and it strains the relationship with the lord.

however, for the record, i dont beleive in osas. and i will defend that later.

Thanks, Jason. But please not here in this thread.

of course in another thread.

 

[samuel]

You know OSAS does not teach its ok to sin, and I know that. But the way some teach it, it leaves a grey area, in which there is room for sin. And too many people perceive the doctrine this way, just because you do not doesn't! mean everyone else sees it the same way.

Basically it is a slight perversion of the doctrine of "Perseverance Of The Saints", which is just a little stiff for today's liberal Christianity.

 

[jasoncran]

You know OSAS does not teach its ok to sin, and I know that. But the way some teach it, it leaves a grey area, in which there is room for sin. And too many people perceive the doctrine this way, just because you do not doesn't! mean everyone else sees it the same way.

Basically it is a slight perversion of the doctrine of "Perseverance Of The Saints", which is just a little stiff for today's liberal Christianity.

you are refering to the verse he that endureth the same shall be saved, i assume

 

[samuel]

No, "Perseverance Of The Saints" is based on the doctrine of election, OSAS is based on the doctrine of free will (Arminianism).

 

[RyanT]

I'm new in my faith, so my stance may be wrong, but I feel the need to ask this...

A "saved" man is stealing money from the company he works for. He has asked for forgiveness for this many times but he keeps on stealing the money because he has become used to the lifestyle it affords him. On the way home one night he is killed in a car crash. Does he goto hell or not?

In my heart I feel that he would be damned because he has not stopped sinning by stealing. It just doesn't ring true to me any other way. Of course it would be much easier in my faith and everyone else's I would expect if he did get to goto heaven anyway, but my heart just doesn't see it that way. Now I can't back this up with scripture for one way or the other, I'm just going off how I feel.

What do you think?

 

[jasoncran]

I'm new in my faith, so my stance may be wrong, but I feel the need to ask this...

A "saved" man is stealing money from the company he works for. He has asked for forgiveness for this many times but he keeps on stealing the money because he has become used to the lifestyle it affords him. On the way home one night he is killed in a car crash. Does he goto hell or not?

In my heart I feel that he would be damned because he has not stopped sinning by stealing. It just doesn't ring true to me any other way. Of course it would be much easier in my faith and everyone else's I would expect if he did get to goto heaven anyway, but my heart just doesn't see it that way. Now I can't back this up with scripture for one way or the other, I'm just going off how I feel.

What do you think?

some sins are hard to overcome for some ie drugs and homosexaulity, and others. we can only break free if the lord frees and we ask him. sometimes it is a struggle, if we ask ourselves if we have sin, we lie if we dont say yes and need to repent, we can never so pure that we can become sinless.
this idea doesnt support all out rebellion and holding of sin, there must be an attempt to want to stop the sin.

 

[RyanT]

I'm new in my faith, so my stance may be wrong, but I feel the need to ask this...

A "saved" man is stealing money from the company he works for. He has asked for forgiveness for this many times but he keeps on stealing the money because he has become used to the lifestyle it affords him. On the way home one night he is killed in a car crash. Does he goto hell or not?

In my heart I feel that he would be damned because he has not stopped sinning by stealing. It just doesn't ring true to me any other way. Of course it would be much easier in my faith and everyone else's I would expect if he did get to goto heaven anyway, but my heart just doesn't see it that way. Now I can't back this up with scripture for one way or the other, I'm just going off how I feel.

What do you think?

some sins are hard to overcome for some ie drugs and homosexaulity, and others. we can only break free if the lord frees and we ask him. sometimes it is a struggle, if we ask ourselves if we have sin, we lie if we dont say yes and need to repent, we can never so pure that we can become sinless.
this idea doesnt support all out rebellion and holding of sin, there must be an attempt to want to stop the sin.

I know we could never become sinless, but I think it breaks down to intent. This is such a iffy area that I really am not sure.

 

[jasoncran]

welcome to the club, best always to repent when convicted. and dont think that i have been set free from all the habitual sins either. i do struggle.

 

[samuel]

but my heart just doesn't see it that way.

I think its probably best you follow your Heart. These verses do not mean that if you Sin, all is lost. I really don't think we ever commit any sin, we are not aware of. But it does mean there is no further forgiveness! for a lifestyle filled purposely with Sin.

Heb. 10:26, For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
27, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
28, He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
29, Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

 

[RyanT]

I think its probably best you follow your Heart. These verses do not mean that if you Sin, all is lost. I really don't think we ever commit any sin, we are not aware of. But it does mean there is no further forgiveness! for a lifestyle filled purposely with Sin.

I hope that you are right. I know I have run the full gambit of sin in my life, but I try as I might ( and fail much)to abstain now. That's why I talked of intent. I think it all comes down to a matter of the heart, whether you detest your sin and are trying to change it or love and defend your sin.


Also, sorry JoJo for straying off topic, this just blew me away as it's the first I've ever heard of it. I wasn't raised Baptist.

 

[jasoncran]

I think its probably best you follow your Heart. These verses do not mean that if you Sin, all is lost. I really don't think we ever commit any sin, we are not aware of. But it does mean there is no further forgiveness! for a lifestyle filled purposely with Sin.

I hope that you are right. I know I have run the full gambit of sin in my life, but I try as I might ( and fail much)to abstain now. That's why I talked of intent. I think it all comes down to a matter of the heart, whether you detest your sin and are trying to change it or love and defend your sin.


Also, sorry JoJo for straying off topic, this just blew me away as it's the first I've ever heard of it. I wasn't raised Baptist.

you are but a babe in christ and need to grow and change slowly, give it to the lord and trust him to take care of it, i was there as well,

after my repentence of the bisexaul lifestyle i still had many bad habits, ie i still conned, and i asked the lord to set me free of this, it took a year but i broke free.( the lord relased me). i had a 'friend" who could manipulate me into that sin and had control over me, i struggled to break free on my own and could never shake him. i should put that story in the praise and testimony forums.

 

[RyanT]

You know it is amazing how many church services I have attended and not listened to. Yeah, I am new in really trying to live as Christ would want, but trying to learn. This one got me though, I will put much thought and prayer into it. Anyway, my straying off topic on this one is over, now I'll just sit back and watch you guys argue. It does get interesting...

 

[jasoncran]

ironically what we have discussed does relate. when i joined the guard in 96 there was a christians sgt that would discuss the bible with me and i would teach him and vice versa, and the sinners called it the bible wars. i was a babe in christ and he was a ten yr christian. so you may have more say, besides read and verify what each of us says, and if you dont understand ask or pray and go the pastor of your chruch and dont think that i know it all either.

i used to hardly comment here or in the end times forums, that changed recently.

 

[RyanT]

ironically what we have discussed does relate. when i joined the guard in 96 there was a christians sgt that would discuss the bible with me and i would teach him and vice versa, and the sinners called it the bible wars. i was a babe in christ and he was a ten yr christian. so you may have more say, besides read and verify what each of us says, and if you dont understand ask or pray and go the pastor of your chruch and dont think that i know it all either.

i used to hardly comment here or in the end times forums, that changed recently.

ironically...what you mean ironically, cleatus? j/k

There was only 1 man who knows it all and He died long ago. I question every statement on here, that's why I had to post, but frankly I don't know enough yet to be of further use to this thread. Unless you want to talk guns,weight training, or expensive fast cars I'm out of the loop.

 

[jasoncran]

that's the point you dont know but the lord inside you does, and you ask him and he will show you and if you feel the need the to post do so you might be surprised.

i have operated in the gifts of the holy ghost as a babe in christ, but that is another topic and alltogether. i have shown others where it says in the bible when i was but a babe, i used to read the bible and go to sunday school and the teachers would teach what i was reading and i would add to it.

not all do this, some are shown more other are less, seek the lord and he will add to your faith.

 

[samuel]

There was only 1 man who knows it all and He died long ago.

NO NO, That is our joy and assurance in Christ. He LIVES!, he did not die, and because he did not die neither shall we die.

 

[RyanT]

Thank you and I will.

I can kind of feel JoJo glaring at me through my monitor, so I was trying to bow out gracefully...not that it worked...