ONE EDUCATED PERSPECTIVE ON "WHO IS SATAN?"

[Free]

Unclean attitudes.

How, exactly, is an "unclean attitude" the same as a mental illness?

Is the Holy Spirit just a Holy Attitude? Why or why not? Is the Spirit of God the Attitude of God? Why or why not? In Matt 4:1, was Jesus "led up by the Attitude into the wilderness to be tempted by the devil"? Why or why not? In Matt 5:3, was Jesus actually saying, "Blessed are the poor in attitude, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven"? Why or why not? Also, if it was a poor attitude that shows a person is blessed and that "theirs is the kingdom of heaven," then why would Jesus cast out unclean attitudes?

The first thing Jesus did when ministering to someone with a mental disease was to subdue their mind/attitude with a "Be silent" or "Shut up!"

He did some of the time, not all of the time. But the question is: Why?

So what kind of shackles? Don't think too highly. Maybe they were not the shackles we can make today. So he was strong.

Be careful that you don't fallaciously appeal to chronological snobbery. Chains have been made since at least 225 BC. No one would be strong enough to break chains, which is why they were used to bind prisoners.

A great deal of people knew who Jesus was. His fame spread far abroad. Everyone was talking about this Jesus.

They knew the name Jesus, but they didn't actually know who he was. That is the point. Again, why would he tell those possessed with unclean "attitudes" to be quiet if everyone knew who he was? How do people with unclean "attitudes" know things that no one else knows?

That was the man's name.
There were two of them but in his mind which was warped he had delusions of grandeur.

Mar 5:7 And crying out with a loud voice, he said, “What have you to do with me, Jesus, Son of the Most High God? I adjure you by God, do not torment me.”
Mar 5:8 For he was saying to him, “Come out of the man, you unclean spirit!”
Mar 5:9 And Jesus asked him, “What is your name?” He replied, “My name is Legion, for we are many.” (ESV)

The context strongly suggests something else.

When Jesus changed the man's attitude the pigs were spooked just as if you'd walk into a room and sense an oppressive "spirit" (attitude.)

The "pigs were spooked"? Not according to the context:

Mar 5:9 And Jesus asked him, “What is your name?” He replied, “My name is Legion, for we are many.”
Mar 5:10 And he begged him earnestly not to send them out of the country.
Mar 5:11 Now a great herd of pigs was feeding there on the hillside,
Mar 5:12 and they begged him, saying, “Send us to the pigs; let us enter them.”
Mar 5:13 So he gave them permission. And the unclean spirits came out and entered the pigs; and the herd, numbering about two thousand, rushed down the steep bank into the sea and drowned in the sea. (ESV)

If the man simply had "delusions of grandeur," then how is it that his legion of unclean attitudes "came out and entered the pigs"? How do attitudes come out of a person and enter pigs? And, again, how do they come out of a person and then return, bringing seven worse attitudes with it?

Well, science today discounts the spiritual aspect to man and look to find something that would explain such mental disease. What was it in the past? Shock treatment. Ah, but we've improved our science but still discount God in anything having to do with man.

Just as you are discounting the spiritual aspect to man and looking to find something that would explain such as mental disease.

My point still stands: It would not only be strange that a mental illness would be called an "unclean spirit," it would be factually incorrect. Are you correct or is the Bible correct?

The right to reveal Himself belongs to God and Christ. Let God do it in His time.

Exactly. So, if Jesus had not revealed himself, how did people with unclean attitudes know who he was while no one else did?

Jesus healed the body which is different from the mind of which is part of the soul which is immaterial, and you can't see it. But you can definitely feel it.

Chemical imbalances are physiological; they are part of the brain. The mind functions only as well as the brain functions. This is clearly proven by the fact the pharmaceuticals and other drugs help those with mental illness, even causing significant improvement.

 

[Free]

That's how they interpreted something they could not understand as a people with a religious background as opposed to doctors today who don't have a religious background, are secular, reject God in any of their science, and inject humanism into their social norms.

What you have just implied is that Jesus didn't know any better either. Jesus even tied that belief directly to Satan's kingdom, which, if divided, will not stand. Who is Satan in this account (Matt 12; Mark 3; Luke 11)?

Of course, it also misses the point that the Jews believed in demons, which you denied, and they believed there is even a prince of demons. What is a prince of unclean attitudes or mental illness? How is it that this prince of unclean attitudes has a name, Beelzebul? Your claim that demons are unclean attitudes simply cannot account for this.

Additionally:

Eph 2:2 in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience— (ESV)

Who is "the prince of the power of the air," an "[attitude] that is now at work in the sons of disobedience"? Can an attitude seriously be called "the prince of the power of the air"? Or would it make more sense that this prince is the same as the prince of demons, whose name is Beelzebul and Satan?

Eph 6:11 Put on the whole armor of God, that you may be able to stand against the schemes of the devil.
Eph 6:12 For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the cosmic powers over this present darkness, against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly places.
...
Eph 6:16 In all circumstances take up the shield of faith, with which you can extinguish all the flaming darts of the evil one; (ESV)

Is Paul speaking of unclean attitudes here? If so, how can they be called "the rulers . . . the authorities . . . the cosmic powers over this present darkness"? How could it be that unclean attitudes can be called "forces of evil in the heavenly places"? Why does Paul link that to "the schemes of the devil"? Who is "the devil" and "the evil one"?

Col 2:15 He disarmed the rulers and authorities and put them to open shame, by triumphing over them in him. (ESV)

What rulers and authorities were disarmed by Christ?

1Pe 5:8 Be sober-minded; be watchful. Your adversary the devil prowls around like a roaring lion, seeking someone to devour. (ESV)

Who is this speaking of?

Ever backslide? First you are clean and then you revert to the sin and flesh when you fail to make your salvation sure.

How is that such a thing could relate to salvation? Aren't we filled with the Holy Spirit at the moment of justification? How is then that an unclean attitude would return and find a person "empty"? And, again, how is it that an unclean attitude "passes through waterless places"? How does an unclean attitude seek rest? How does an unclean attitude talk, and talk to itself? How does an unclean attitude decide to return to a person? How is it that an unclean attitude bring "with it seven other [attitudes] more evil than itself"?

Again, your position cannot account for these things.

PCP can do that.

From unclean attitudes to PCP? Where are drugs mentioned in the text?

The angels that sinned are locked up.

You keep saying that, but have yet to show how it is the case

Find another interpretation and understanding for these "demons" and "devils" and "evil spirits."

There is no need to "find another interpretation and understanding." There are 52 verses which mention "demons" and "unclean spirits," around another 32 which mention Satan, and 32 that mention the devil. We also see:

Rev 20:1 Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, holding in his hand the key to the bottomless pit and a great chain.
Rev 20:2 And he seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years,
Rev 20:3 and threw him into the pit, and shut it and sealed it over him, so that he might not deceive the nations any longer, until the thousand years were ended. After that he must be released for a little while.
Rev 20:4 Then I saw thrones, and seated on them were those to whom the authority to judge was committed. Also I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for the testimony of Jesus and for the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. (ESV)

Do you think we're living in this time? If so, when did the mark come out? If not, then does it not stand to reason that "the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil and Satan," is not currently bound?

You can't make an adjective into a noun and hope to be grammatically correct, let alone biblically sound.

What adjectives, what nouns? Be specific.

 

[Randy]

You agree the angels that sinned are locked up (restricted) then you say the one that sows the tares is "Satan."
What is he? On parole?

You keep interpreting "devil" as "Satan" (as Lucifer?). If the angels that sinned are locked up (restricted) then you'll have to come to another understanding of "devil" "demons" and "Satan." You keep trying to personalize an adjective.

Then their kingdom is divided.
Unbelievers can drive out evil attitudes. This is what they did as Jesus reveals their conduct.
It says THE MAN jumped on them.

I know the angels that were in the rebellion were cast to the earth with their leader.(Satan) As we read.
I never used the name Lucifer only what was found in the testimony given.

I don't know Peters source of the angels he speaks of. The book of Enoch? Angels who abandoned, not cast out, of their place in heaven and who came into the daughters of men?? Can't know without asking Peter which I can't do. But its not relevant as I can read the testimony of the angels involved in the rebellion who were cast down to the earth with their leader. Along with the testimony of the casting out of demons and satan tempting Jesus. Those fallen angels weren't locked in chains in tartarus.

 

[Free]

It says the angels that sinned are locked up. Nowhere does it say some angels that sinned are locked up.

And, yet, the NT is clear that evil spiritual beings, known as demons and unclean spirits, exist, and have a leader or prince known as the devil and Satan. Since there are numerous verses stating such, it stands to reason that your interpretation and understanding of the two verses you're appealing to, are not correct. They are unclear and there is disagreement among scholars. But there is likely very little disagreement about the existence of demons and Satan, apart from progressive, liberal theologians.

Yes, transgression which is used with regard to the Law.
Iniquity. Sin. It has to do with the context by which a certain word is used but it all means the same thing. Falling short. And for that the judgment is death.

Sin comes from sinner. Adam and the woman sinned. They were not holy or righteous or sinless. These are the nature and attributes of God and He gives no one His glory.

Sin comes from a decision to do something wrong against God. Adam and Eve were made sinless but made the decision to disobey God, bringing sin into the world and into the nature of humans.

Jas 1:13 Let no one say when he is tempted, “I am being tempted by God,” for God cannot be tempted with evil, and he himself tempts no one.
...
Jas 1:17 Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of lights, with whom there is no variation or shadow due to change. (ESV)

If God "tempts no one," then how much less would he have created humans sinful. If "every good gift and perfect gift" is from God, then how much more the initial creation of those beings in his image would have been good and perfect.

God created humans to be in relationship with him, not to sin against him. That would make God the author of evil and to suggest that is blasphemy; it would mean that God went against his nature. How can you justify a perfectly holy God creating people in his image who are less than perfect?

There is only ONE God. God did not reduplicate or copy or mimic any part of His Deific attributes and nature in His creation. If Adam possessed any ONE Deific attribute or nature of God he would by necessity HAVE TO POSSESS ALL the deific attributes and nature of God or he would still fall short.

Your conclusion doesn't follow. If "God did not reduplicate or copy or mimic any part of His Deific attributes and nature in His creation," and since he is spirit and doesn't have a body, then in what ways are male and female made in his image? Doesn't that mean that it is the immaterial parts of us that are made in his image?

Only ONE PERSON can stand before a Holy and Righteous God blameless and that is a Holy Son, the second Adam. He was holy, He was righteous. He did no sin.

Exactly. Jesus was the second Adam--he lived how Adam was created to live, being created morally perfect.

Adam was not holy. Adam was not righteous. He sinned because sin comes from sinner.

He was made in the image of a holy God, reflecting God's holiness and chose to disobey God, bringing sin into the world and human nature. Since then, yes, all sin. Even being made righteous as believers, we still make the choice to sin.

13 As saith the proverb of the ancients, Wickedness proceedeth from the wicked:
1 Sam. 24:13.

Yes, once people became wicked.

It sure does not come from holy.

No, it doesn't, but it initially came from those who were created morally perfect but had the freedom to choose to rebel against God, and so mar that image.

The plan of God for man and His elect was arranged before God created heaven earth and man. All God is doing is following that plan.

8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. Rev. 13:7–8.

20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you, 1 Peter 1:19–20.

4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: Eph. 1:3–4.

24 Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world. Jn. 17:24.

34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
Mt. 25:34.

24 For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us: 25 Nor yet that he should offer himself often, as the high priest entereth into the holy place every year with blood of others;
26 For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself. Heb. 9:24–26.

It all ties in.

I don't spiritualize every verse I read like someone I know. I take the Scripture literally as written FIRST and then seek out the spiritual lesson since the Law is spiritual and holy.

What you seem to be doing is reinterpreting those verses that are clear in light of those that are not. But that is to put the cart before the horse. This has led you into conjecture and opinion--that Jesus cast out mental illness; that mental illness has personality and a prince with a kingdom; that "unclean spirit" actually means "unclean attitude;" that unclean attitudes can be cast into pigs; that unclean attitudes give supernatural knowledge and superhuman strength; that Jesus didn't know what he was talking about, that he couldn't tell mental illness from demonic possession (either that or he willfully mislead people); Gap Theory;

Mar 3:29 but whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is guilty of an eternal sin”—
Mar 3:30 for they were saying, “He has an unclean spirit.” (ESV)

Interestingly, I read very recently that there are two things Satan wants for Christians--to either have an overly healthy fascination with demons and himself, or to deny their existence altogether.

 

[Free]

For the fact that it says in Genesis 1:1 God created the heaven and the earth. Finished. Done. Complete.
So, what happened to it to render it empty, without form, and darkness upon the face of the deep? Some kind of cataclysmic event happened. God turned the world upside down in His fierce anger when "there was no man" (no "Adam.")

Not at all. The most plain reading is that Gen 1:1 is the start of creation, the bare bones of the universe, so to speak.

Gen 1:1 In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth.
Gen 1:2 The earth was without form and void, and darkness was over the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters.
Gen 1:3 And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light.
Gen 1:4 And God saw that the light was good. And God separated the light from the darkness. (ESV)

God first creates "the heavens and the earth," but it is not at all complete. The rest of the narrative shows how God finishes creation, culminating in the seventh day:

Gen 2:1 Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.
Gen 2:2 And on the seventh day God finished his work that he had done, and he rested on the seventh day from all his work that he had done.
Gen 2:3 So God blessed the seventh day and made it holy, because on it God rested from all his work that he had done in creation. (ESV)

It's only complete after the six days of creation; that is the whole basis of the Sabbath.

Behold, the LORD maketh the earth empty, and maketh it waste,
And turneth it upside down, and scattereth abroad the inhabitants thereof.
Isaiah 24:1.

What is the context? What is said in the chapter preceding chapter 24? And what follows in chapter 25? You have taken chapter 24 out of context to fit your theology, instead of letting it speak for itself in context. The chapters before are oracles concerning coming judgement to existing nations and chapter 25 speaks of restoration.

23 I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void;
And the heavens, and they had no light.
24 I beheld the mountains, and, lo, they trembled,
And all the hills moved lightly.
25 I beheld, and, lo, there was no man, (adam)
And all the birds of the heavens were fled.
26 I beheld, and, lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness,
And all the cities thereof were broken down
At the presence of the LORD, and by his fierce anger.
Jer. 4:23–26.

Again, context. What comes in the verses prior to these? God calls Israel to return to him, but then says he is bringing his wrath against them. Jeremiah is then in anguish over the coming destruction, as he clearly states in 4:19. This is a prophecy of coming destruction over Judah and Jerusalem; nothing more, nothing less.

I know there is no being called "Satan."

There certainly is a being called Satan; there is not one called Lucifer. You say you read Scripture literally, so read it literally.

The angels that sinned.

But I asked, how many. All the angels that sinned? Some of them? What sin?

If there's no consistency in Scripture, there can be no consistency in doctrine.

But, I asked: Where, exactly, are those words used as adjectives? What about the times they are used as nouns? You made the claim, so please provide the evidence.

 

[Mr. G Lee]

You agree the angels that sinned are locked up (restricted) then you say the one that sows the tares is "Satan."
What is he? On parole?

A person can run into all kinds of ideas when they try to use what some call mysteriously created army beings (no record) before Genesis 1.

Satan has no form and neither can he create it, As the false teaching master he works in false prophets humans as messengers

The Greek word angelos translated is messenger . how beautiful are the feet of the true apostles shod with the gospel not the mistranslation angel a fake word coined by those who serve the doctrine of familiar spirit gods

Like that of Rachel who hid the family idol image from her Father or Saul who sought after the legion of gods as Satan . he was cut off from hearing the living word .

The father of lies needs to create things that are not there ( disembodied workers as spirit gods today officially (3500 and rising patron saints)

Angel = messenger sent ones. Not venerable ones, Apostles sends them out two by two .Two is the one witness God has spoke. . The law "Let there be" .. .and "it was God alone good"

 

[Mr. G Lee]

What you seem to be doing is reinterpreting those verses that are clear in light of those that are not. But that is to put the cart before the horse. This has led you into conjecture and opinion--that Jesus cast out mental illness; that mental illness has personality and a prince with a kingdom; that "unclean spirit" actually means "unclean attitude;" that unclean attitudes can be cast into pigs; that unclean attitudes give supernatural knowledge and superhuman strength; that Jesus didn't know what he was talking about, that he couldn't tell mental illness from demonic possession (either that or he willfully mislead people); Gap Theory;

Unclean spirit? More of the unseen spirit called legion the one spirit of lies that works in many false prophets, false apostles .the bible call them "antichrists" = meaning another teaching master other than Christ the Holy Spirit of God.

Casting legion into pigs represents natural unconverted mankind they must be redeemed with a lamb if not. . . . off the cliff.breaking necks . . God's judgement

 

[jeremiah1five]

How, exactly, is an "unclean attitude" the same as a mental illness?

That's what a mental attitude is. An unclean spirit. That's what it was called in the first century. There were no doctors that knew about the mind and the diseases that affect it. But it wasn't fallen angels. They were locked up.

Is the Holy Spirit just a Holy Attitude? Why or why not? Is the Spirit of God the Attitude of God? Why or why not? In Matt 4:1, was Jesus "led up by the Attitude into the wilderness to be tempted by the devil"? Why or why not? In Matt 5:3, was Jesus actually saying, "Blessed are the poor in attitude, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven"? Why or why not? Also, if it was a poor attitude that shows a person is blessed and that "theirs is the kingdom of heaven," then why would Jesus cast out unclean attitudes?

He was led in to the desert by the Holy Spirit to be tested by a "liar." And that's what the Holy Spirit called the human nature until it was proven otherwise. Yes, I know God knew that the totality of Jesus Christ was Holy, but God also knew that Adam and the woman would sin which is why there was a command of "thou shalt not" which showed them the knowledge they were sinful before they sinned for sin comes from sinner.
Scripture in many places describe the Holy Spirit a Person. And when it comes time to judge man, you're going to see God deal with sin with an attitude of righteousness and extreme prejudice.

He did some of the time, not all of the time. But the question is: Why?

To get their attention. There needs to be an understanding of what Jesus was to do. The lawyer called Jesus "good," and Jesus told him, "No one is good but God."
Jesus communicated with the people He ministered to. It was intimate. Mutual.

Be careful that you don't fallaciously appeal to chronological snobbery. Chains have been made since at least 225 BC. No one would be strong enough to break chains, which is why they were used to bind prisoners.

If it says these men broke their chains, then they broke their chains. These were not prisoners. Imagine being shackled and placed in a cave. How inhumane is that? But at least if there was a mental condition those that shackled them would know at least there was something else going on than criminality.

They knew the name Jesus, but they didn't actually know who he was. That is the point. Again, why would he tell those possessed with unclean "attitudes" to be quiet if everyone knew who he was? How do people with unclean "attitudes" know things that no one else knows?

The news of Jesus went abroad Jerusalem into Samaria and beyond. Everyone was talking about Jesus. Maybe someone went to these men and told them Jesus heals and wanted these men to go to Him, but it appears they didn't. Jesus went to them.

35 And the same day, when the even was come, he saith unto them, Let us pass over unto the other side. Mk 4:35–36.

Mar 5:7 And crying out with a loud voice, he said, “What have you to do with me, Jesus, Son of the Most High God? I adjure you by God, do not torment me.”
Mar 5:8 For he was saying to him, “Come out of the man, you unclean spirit!”
Mar 5:9 And Jesus asked him, “What is your name?” He replied, “My name is Legion, for we are many.” (ESV)
The context strongly suggests something else.

The Scripture is as written. It's the interpretation that has problems.

The "pigs were spooked"? Not according to the context:
Mar 5:9 And Jesus asked him, “What is your name?” He replied, “My name is Legion, for we are many.”

Dude was sick. Napoleon complex. Maybe Roman centurion complex. Sick in the mind.

Mar 5:10 And he begged him earnestly not to send them out of the country.

They thought Jesus was going to force them to move. Maybe someone looked after them, brought them food, clothes, and other things. If they were forced out, they would certainly lose what they have and be a stranger in some unfamiliar place having to fend for themselves. They knew at least that much.

Mar 5:11 Now a great herd of pigs was feeding there on the hillside,
Mar 5:12 and they begged him, saying, “Send us to the pigs; let us enter them.”
Mar 5:13 So he gave them permission. And the unclean spirits came out and entered the pigs; and the herd, numbering about two thousand, rushed down the steep bank into the sea and drowned in the sea. (ESV)

Spooked.

If the man simply had "delusions of grandeur," then how is it that his legion of unclean attitudes "came out and entered the pigs"? How do attitudes come out of a person and enter pigs? And, again, how do they come out of a person and then return, bringing seven worse attitudes with it?

Before you were saved do you think you had a righteous and clean mind? What were your favorite sins? Who have you hurt? Were you in your right mind? And when you were born again you had an attitude adjustment compliments of the HOLY Spirit.

Just as you are discounting the spiritual aspect to man and looking to find something that would explain such as mental disease.

Thoughts are spiritual. You can't see them, but you can feel them.

My point still stands: It would not only be strange that a mental illness would be called an "unclean spirit," it would be factually incorrect. Are you correct or is the Bible correct?

You're thinking as a 21st century man with knowledge of mental illness of today. But that wasn't the case back then. It was not understood.

Exactly. So, if Jesus had not revealed himself, how did people with unclean attitudes know who he was while no one else did?

Word of mouth. The marketplace. The Temple. The synagogues. Street corners.

Chemical imbalances are physiological; they are part of the brain. The mind functions only as well as the brain functions. This is clearly proven by the fact the pharmaceuticals and other drugs help those with mental illness, even causing significant improvement.

But do they cure?

 

[Mr. G Lee]

That's what a mental attitude is. An unclean spirit. That's what it was called in the first century. There were no doctors that knew about the mind and the diseases that affect it. But it wasn't fallen angels. They were locked up.

Unclean the spirit of lies its called unbelief no faith that could please God. . the unredeemed

It has nothing to do with the earthly wisdom of doctor. God does not heal by human hands as a will. the prescription is spiritual not seen the cure. . believe God not seen who give the power to understand the gospel ,.

 

[jeremiah1five]

What you have just implied is that Jesus didn't know any better either. Jesus even tied that belief directly to Satan's kingdom, which, if divided, will not stand. Who is Satan in this account (Matt 12; Mark 3; Luke 11)?

If the angels that sinned are locked up who is now God's adersary but man. Even saved men.

Of course, it also misses the point that the Jews believed in demons, which you denied, and they believed there is even a prince of demons. What is a prince of unclean attitudes or mental illness? How is it that this prince of unclean attitudes has a name, Beelzebul? Your claim that demons are unclean attitudes simply cannot account for this.

The Jews did not believe in "demons" the way the Gentile Church does today. It is an enormous departure from what's revealed in the OT.

Additionally:
Eph 2:2 in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience— (ESV)

Fallen men. The "spirit" of antichrist.

Who is "the prince of the power of the air," an "[attitude] that is now at work in the sons of disobedience"? Can an attitude seriously be called "the prince of the power of the air"? Or would it make more sense that this prince is the same as the prince of demons, whose name is Beelzebul and Satan?

When it is from man and a mindset.

Eph 6:11 Put on the whole armor of God, that you may be able to stand against the schemes of the devil.
Eph 6:12 For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the cosmic powers over this present darkness, against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly places.
Eph 6:16 In all circumstances take up the shield of faith, with which you can extinguish all the flaming darts of the evil one; (ESV)

Your translation changes the words "of this world (age.)"

Is Paul speaking of unclean attitudes here? If so, how can they be called "the rulers . . . the authorities . . . the cosmic powers over this present darkness"? How could it be that unclean attitudes can be called "forces of evil in the heavenly places"? Why does Paul link that to "the schemes of the devil"? Who is "the devil" and "the evil one"?

People in positions of power can be. Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Give a man authority and you'll see his character revealed. Abe Lincoln said that.

Col 2:15 He disarmed the rulers and authorities and put them to open shame, by triumphing over them in him. (ESV)
What rulers and authorities were disarmed by Christ?
1Pe 5:8 Be sober-minded; be watchful. Your adversary the devil prowls around like a roaring lion, seeking someone to devour. (ESV)
Who is this speaking of?

Man.

How is that such a thing could relate to salvation? Aren't we filled with the Holy Spirit at the moment of justification? How is then that an unclean attitude would return and find a person "empty"? And, again, how is it that an unclean attitude "passes through waterless places"? How does an unclean attitude seek rest? How does an unclean attitude talk, and talk to itself? How does an unclean attitude decide to return to a person? How is it that an unclean attitude bring "with it seven other [attitudes] more evil than itself"?
Again, your position cannot account for these things.

You forget your were a son of disobedience carried away by these 'dumb idols,' but you are washed....

From unclean attitudes to PCP? Where are drugs mentioned in the text?
You keep saying that, but have yet to show how it is the case
There is no need to "find another interpretation and understanding." There are 52 verses which mention "demons" and "unclean spirits," around another 32 which mention Satan, and 32 that mention the devil. We also see:

What the Gentile Church believes today about these things are not what's in the OT.

Rev 20:1 Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, holding in his hand the key to the bottomless pit and a great chain.
Rev 20:2 And he seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years,
Rev 20:3 and threw him into the pit, and shut it and sealed it over him, so that he might not deceive the nations any longer, until the thousand years were ended. After that he must be released for a little while.
Rev 20:4 Then I saw thrones, and seated on them were those to whom the authority to judge was committed. Also I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for the testimony of Jesus and for the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. (ESV)

But you will have unredeemed men roaming the planet. Even if Satan is bound (chains of darkness as Peter says) there will still be people saying it's Satan and the prince of the power of the air and demons and devils and evil spirits that are the cause of evil among the unconverted, the ones when Satan is loosed will gather in the final battle.

Do you think we're living in this time? If so, when did the mark come out? If not, then does it not stand to reason that "the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil and Satan," is not currently bound?
What adjectives, what nouns? Be specific.

Then Peter, Isaiah, and Jude are liars.

 

[jeremiah1five]

I know the angels that were in the rebellion were cast to the earth with their leader.(Satan) As we read.
I never used the name Lucifer only what was found in the testimony given.

I don't know Peters source of the angels he speaks of. The book of Enoch? Angels who abandoned, not cast out, of their place in heaven and who came into the daughters of men?? Can't know without asking Peter which I can't do. But its not relevant as I can read the testimony of the angels involved in the rebellion who were cast down to the earth with their leader. Along with the testimony of the casting out of demons and satan tempting Jesus. Those fallen angels weren't locked in chains in tartarus.

How about Jesus after He resurrected.

 

[jeremiah1five]

A person can run into all kinds of ideas when they try to use what some call mysteriously created army beings (no record) before Genesis 1.

Satan has no form and neither can he create it, As the false teaching master he works in false prophets humans as messengers

The Greek word angelos translated is messenger . how beautiful are the feet of the true apostles shod with the gospel not the mistranslation angel a fake word coined by those who serve the doctrine of familiar spirit gods

Like that of Rachel who hid the family idol image from her Father or Saul who sought after the legion of gods as Satan . he was cut off from hearing the living word .

The father of lies needs to create things that are not there ( disembodied workers as spirit gods today officially (3500 and rising patron saints)

Angel = messenger sent ones. Not venerable ones, Apostles sends them out two by two .Two is the one witness God has spoke. . The law "Let there be" .. .and "it was God alone good"

4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;
2 Pe 2:4.

6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.
Jude 6.

 

[jeremiah1five]

Unclean the spirit of lies its called unbelief no faith that could please God. . the unredeemed

It has nothing to do with the earthly wisdom of doctor. God does not heal by human hands as a will. the prescription is spiritual not seen the cure. . believe God not seen who give the power to understand the gospel ,.

The prescription is sometimes medication. God heals through doctors, too.

 

[gordon777]

4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;
2 Pe 2:4.

6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.
Jude 6.

The wicked ( evil spirits/spirit of error.) use their tongue like arrows, shooting out lies.

God, ( who is a Spirit) shoots at them, with His arrow. ( And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God. Ephesians 6:17.)



Psalm 64:2 Hide me from the secret counsel of the wicked; from the insurrection of the workers of iniquity:
3 Who whet their tongue like a sword, and bend their bows to shoot their arrows, even bitter words:
4 That they may shoot in secret at the perfect: suddenly do they shoot at him, and fear not.
5 They encourage themselves in an evil matter: they commune of laying snares privily; they say, Who shall see them?
6 They search out iniquities; they accomplish a diligent search: both the inward thought of every one of them, and the heart, is deep.
7 But God shall shoot at them with an arrow; suddenly shall they be wounded.
8 So they shall make their own tongue to fall upon themselves: all that see them shall flee away.




Temptation is from within, from an evil heart of unbelief, ( Hebrews 3:12.) from a hardened heart of pride, ( from the evil lying spirit. 1 Timothy 3:6.) which are in hell, and go down to death. ( For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies. Matthew 15:19.)




Proverbs 5:3 For the lips of a strange woman drop as an honeycomb, and her mouth is smoother than oil:
4 But her end is bitter as wormwood, sharp as a two-edged sword.
5 Her feet go down to death; her steps take hold on hell.
6 Lest thou shouldest ponder the path of life, her ways are moveable, that thou canst not know them.

Proverbs 7:21 With her much fair speech she caused him to yield, with the flattering of her lips she forced him.
22 He goeth after her straightway, as an ox goeth to the slaughter, or as a fool to the correction of the stocks;
23 Till a dart strike through his liver; as a bird hasteth to the snare, and knoweth not that it is for his life.

Proverbs 7:25 Let not thine heart decline to her ways, go not astray in her paths.
26 For she hath cast down many wounded: yea, many strong men have been slain by her.
27 Her house is the way to hell, going down to the chambers of death.




Jesus Christ casts Satan out of man, ( the evil lying spirit that has man down in death and hell, bound with them)



Luke 11:20 But if I with the finger of God cast out devils, no doubt the kingdom of God is come upon you.

Luke 13:16 And ought not this woman, being a daughter of Abraham, whom Satan hath bound, lo, these eighteen years, be loosed from this bond on the sabbath day?




Lust is in the heart, it is not in the heart of belief, that is why the High Priest becomes us, the heart that is not defiled, separate from sinners.

Men have lust when they are enticed, as scripture says plainly, Jesus Christ neither had lust nor enticement, the devil entices people, who do not have the Word to protect them. ( the Word expels all the fiery darts/arrows of the wicked)



Mark 4:15 And these are they by the way side, where the word is sown; but when they have heard, Satan cometh immediately, and taketh away the word that was sown in their hearts.

Matthew 15:18 But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man.

Romans 1:24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:

Ephesians 6:16 Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked.

Hebrews 4:15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.

Hebrews 7:26 For such an high priest became us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens;

James 1:14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.

 

[gordon777]

Satan is against Christ, from the beginning, speaking the opposite to God, being what darkness is, not what light is, being dishonesty, insincerity, injustice, crooked instead of straight, a false light instead of the true light now shining, 9 Jesus Christ.) it has no place when the wicked are removed from this world, the lying spirit goes with them, for now it flourishes, in a wicked world, divided, which has websites such as this forum, using the Christian name for debate, contention, dispute, instead of what will be in the new earth of righteousness, all one together, in peace, without divisions, without the reason the devil can be seen now, and has too many supporters, and not enough to reveal what he is.



Psalm 92:5 O Lord, how great are thy works! and thy thoughts are very deep.
6 A brutish man knoweth not; neither doth a fool understand this.
7 When the wicked spring as the grass, and when all the workers of iniquity do flourish; it is that they shall be destroyed for ever:
8 But thou, Lord, art most high for evermore.

Matthew 13:49 So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just,
50 And shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

2 Thessalonians 2:6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

 

[jeremiah1five]

The wicked ( evil spirits/spirit of error.) use their tongue like arrows, shooting out lies.

Let God be true and every MAN a liar.

God, ( who is a Spirit) shoots at them, with His arrow. ( And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God. Ephesians 6:17.)
Psalm 64:2 Hide me from the secret counsel of the wicked; from the insurrection of the workers of iniquity:
3 Who whet their tongue like a sword, and bend their bows to shoot their arrows, even bitter words:
4 That they may shoot in secret at the perfect: suddenly do they shoot at him, and fear not.
5 They encourage themselves in an evil matter: they commune of laying snares privily; they say, Who shall see them?
6 They search out iniquities; they accomplish a diligent search: both the inward thought of every one of them, and the heart, is deep.
7 But God shall shoot at them with an arrow; suddenly shall they be wounded.
8 So they shall make their own tongue to fall upon themselves: all that see them shall flee away.
Temptation is from within, from an evil heart of unbelief, ( Hebrews 3:12.) from a hardened heart of pride, ( from the evil lying spirit. 1 Timothy 3:6.) which are in hell, and go down to death. ( For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies. Matthew 15:19.)
Proverbs 5:3 For the lips of a strange woman drop as an honeycomb, and her mouth is smoother than oil:
4 But her end is bitter as wormwood, sharp as a two-edged sword.
5 Her feet go down to death; her steps take hold on hell.
6 Lest thou shouldest ponder the path of life, her ways are moveable, that thou canst not know them.
Proverbs 7:21 With her much fair speech she caused him to yield, with the flattering of her lips she forced him.
22 He goeth after her straightway, as an ox goeth to the slaughter, or as a fool to the correction of the stocks;
23 Till a dart strike through his liver; as a bird hasteth to the snare, and knoweth not that it is for his life.
Proverbs 7:25 Let not thine heart decline to her ways, go not astray in her paths.
26 For she hath cast down many wounded: yea, many strong men have been slain by her.
27 Her house is the way to hell, going down to the chambers of death.
Jesus Christ casts Satan out of man, ( the evil lying spirit that has man down in death and hell, bound with them)
Luke 11:20 But if I with the finger of God cast out devils, no doubt the kingdom of God is come upon you.
Luke 13:16 And ought not this woman, being a daughter of Abraham, whom Satan hath bound, lo, these eighteen years, be loosed from this bond on the sabbath day?
Lust is in the heart, it is not in the heart of belief, that is why the High Priest becomes us, the heart that is not defiled, separate from sinners.
Men have lust when they are enticed, as scripture says plainly, Jesus Christ neither had lust nor enticement, the devil entices people, who do not have the Word to protect them. ( the Word expels all the fiery darts/arrows of the wicked)
Mark 4:15 And these are they by the way side, where the word is sown; but when they have heard, Satan cometh immediately, and taketh away the word that was sown in their hearts.
Matthew 15:18 But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man.
Romans 1:24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
Ephesians 6:16 Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked.
Hebrews 4:15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.
Hebrews 7:26 For such an high priest became us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens;
James 1:14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.

 

[Randy]

How about Jesus after He resurrected.

Yes in regard to Rev 12. Those angels and their leader were cast to the earth.

 

[gordon777]

Let God be true and every MAN a liar.

1 Corinthians 6:17 But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit.


1 Corinthians 15:47 The first man is of the earth, earthy; the second man is the Lord from heaven.

 

[Mr. G Lee]

The prescription is sometimes medication. God heals through doctors, too.

Yes though the finger of God . (No human touch) God does not heal by human hands by a dying will .

The word worship (therapón) used one time. Its where we get the word "theopoetic "

Acts 17: 25 Neither is worshipped with men's hands, as though he needed any thing, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things;

 

[Mr. G Lee]

4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;
2 Pe 2:4.

6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.
Jude 6.

Again the Greek word Angelos translated in English is Messenger (not angel a fake word ) How beautiful are the feet of the apostles (messengers) shod with the gospel of peace.

The word angel is a fake word given to a imaginary creation of disembodied workers with a familiar spirit gods. it is needed to ad a female deity called the Queen of heaven it began with the old testament false apostles and was passed on three (trinity) was needed to complete thier trinity.

Two is the witness God has spoken the Father working in empowering the Son of man, Jesus.

Today called patron saints (3500) and rising officiated by the Pope

Passed down from a law of old testament fathers.

Two kinds of earthly fathers described in the bible.One as a hierarchy of dying mankind that lord it over the non venerable pew warmers and the other father gets under the hearing of God. . . sola scriptura.

It is necessary for them to have a idol image so a person can use their imagination.

The legion many gods always comes up as many . Saul who was cut off from all communication sought after the legion and a description was given to the witch so she could conjure up right the lying demon .

God sent him a strong delusion and he bowed down and worshiped dirt. Rachel hid her idol image Like caled patron saint Christopher one of the thousands .She hid from her fathers

The messengers ( Greek angelos) that did not keep thier first estate are false apostles sent with false prophecy They went out from us because they had no faith that could please God not seen.. . not little faith as power . . nothing nada. . . zip . . eopsoyo