One True Church

[Cassian]

And all this time I thought It was God who does the saving. We were told to preach the Gospel and to testify as to what we have seen and heard. And I thought that all who are in Christ, and have Christ in them that are saved. But what do I know?

One possesses personal salvation upon entering into the Body of Christ by faith, repentance and baptism. But entering is just the beginning of one's salvation. If one endures the journey, then one will also inherit the promises at the end.

Respective of our personal salvation, God cannot do it alone. It is a mutual, synergistic, and cooperative work between God and man.

 

[smaller]

One possesses personal salvation upon entering into the Body of Christ by faith, repentance and baptism. But entering is just the beginning of one's salvation. If one endures the journey, then one will also inherit the promises at the end.

Respective of our personal salvation, God cannot do it alone. It is a mutual, synergistic, and cooperative work between God and man.

Jesus hated both the deeds and the doctrine of the Nicolatians.

Nicolaitans = "destruction of people"

It's readily apparent that the orthodox 'one true multiple churches' have fallen headlong into this doctrine and in their deeds as well.

s

 

[John 8:32]

One possesses personal salvation upon entering into the Body of Christ by faith, repentance and baptism. But entering is just the beginning of one's salvation. If one endures the journey, then one will also inherit the promises at the end.

Respective of our personal salvation, God cannot do it alone. It is a mutual, synergistic, and cooperative work between God and man.

Salvation comes at the resurrection...

2Ti 2:10 Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.

1Pe 1:5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

Rev 12:10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

If you will do a study on this, you will find that salvation is spoken of in the future tense. It is something that we are given at the resurrection, we are saved from death.

 

[Cassian]

Salvation comes at the resurrection...

2Ti 2:10 Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.

1Pe 1:5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

Rev 12:10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

If you will do a study on this, you will find that salvation is spoken of in the future tense. It is something that we are given at the resurrection, we are saved from death.

If you had actually read what I wrote, I specifically refered to our personal salvation.

Christ did save us from death, He saved everyone, the world from death. That is a completed work of Christ accomplished by His resurrection. It is also true that all men will not receive this salvation until the last day at the resurrection of the dead. But the fact is that because Christ reconciled the world back to God by His death and resurrection, individual man can now enter into a personal relationship with Him in this life, and if they are faithful, they will inherit eternal life with Him. Those that rejected Him or failed to endure will receive eternal life but will live apart from Him.

 

[dadof10]

And all this time I thought It was God who does the saving.

Everyone agrees with this. HOW God "does the saving" is the issue. I think He does it through the Church (singular) He founded.

We were told to preach the Gospel and to testify as to what we have seen and heard. And I thought that all who are in Christ, and have Christ in them that are saved. But what do I know?

Then what is the role of the Church, in your opinion? Scripturally, it is obviously more than a simple meeting place or a loose knit group of believers, don't you think?

 

[John 8:32]

If you had actually read what I wrote, I specifically refered to our personal salvation.

Christ did save us from death, He saved everyone, the world from death. That is a completed work of Christ accomplished by His resurrection. It is also true that all men will not receive this salvation until the last day at the resurrection of the dead. But the fact is that because Christ reconciled the world back to God by His death and resurrection, individual man can now enter into a personal relationship with Him in this life, and if they are faithful, they will inherit eternal life with Him. Those that rejected Him or failed to endure will receive eternal life but will live apart from Him.

I did actually read what you wrote.

 

[Cassian]

I did actually read what you wrote.

Then why the disagreement?

 

[TRUTH over TRADITION]

...... what is the role of the Church, in your opinion? Scripturally, it is obviously more than a simple meeting place or a loose knit group of believers, .......

The word "church" comes from a Greek phrase that means "the Lord's house, but then, it is important to find out who used that Greek term, and especially, which "lord" it actually pointed to. The word "church" is not a translation of the Greek noun ekklêsia which means 'assembly,' 'congregation,' or can even mean 'mob.'

It is my contention that all churches drastically miss the mark as they profess their particular brand of christianity. People who are members of churches would be better served by being members of one another's lives as they love and help each other to live in the manner Jesus instructed. Most of these institutions do a lot of good in their communities and in the lives of their members, but what I am saying is that the doctrines and structures they typically mandate are a far cry from what Jesus and 1st century saints would identify with. In addition, many members including me have been guilty of always wanting to label or pigeonhole others of differing faiths. We tend to use these labels as a way to slander those with whom we disagree or do not understand. Names like gnostic, pagan, fundementalist, preterist, and others are used as weapons to discredit people oftentimes without dealing with the issues those who have been given those labels ask to have addressed. It's a sad cop-out, really.

In my understanding of scripture, Jesus came to call out a people for salvation. He did not come to lead people to some corporate institution that acts as a go between between the individual and Him. People need to seek out a relationship with the Lord rather than a membership in a corporate church. There is no harm in going to the assembly services of a church, but what is wrong is to tell people that the way to God is through your church. Church should be used as a place to fellowship with people who you can help and that can help you.

 

[John 8:32]

In my understanding of scripture, Jesus came to call out a people for salvation. He did not come to lead people to some corporate institution that acts as a go between between the individual and Him. People need to seek out a relationship with the Lord rather than a membership in a corporate church. There is no harm in going to the assembly services of a church, but what is wrong is to tell people that the way to God is through your church. Church should be used as a place to fellowship with people who you can help and that can help you.

On this we are in lockstep.

 

[francisdesales]

...... what is the role of the Church, in your opinion? Scripturally, it is obviously more than a simple meeting place or a loose knit group of believers, .......

The word "church" comes from a Greek phrase that means "the Lord's house, but then, it is important to find out who used that Greek term, and especially, which "lord" it actually pointed to. The word "church" is not a translation of the Greek noun ekklêsia which as you stated means 'assembly,' 'congregation,' or can even mean 'mob.'

It is my contention that all churches drastically miss the mark as they profess their particular brand of christianity. People who are members of churches would be better served by being members of one another's lives as they love and help each other to live in the manner Jesus instructed. Most of these institutions do a lot of good in their communities and in the lives of their members, but what I am saying is that the doctrines and structures they typically mandate are a far cry from what Jesus and 1st century saints would identify with. In addition, many members including me have been guilty of always wanting to label or pigeonhole others of differing faiths. We tend to use these labels as a way to slander those with whom we disagree or do not understand. Names like gnostic, pagan, fundementalist, preterist, and others are used as weapons to discredit people oftentimes without dealing with the issues those who have been given those labels ask to have addressed. It's a sad cop-out, really.

In my understanding of scripture, Jesus came to call out a people for salvation. He did not come to lead people to some corporate institution that acts as a go between between the individual and Him. People need to seek out a relationship with the Lord rather than a membership in a corporate church. There is no harm in going to the assembly services of a church, but what is wrong is to tell people that the way to God is through your church. Church should be used as a place to fellowship with people who you can help and that can help you.

First, "ecclesia" does not mean "the Lord's house". It refers to people coming together for some purpose. In a religious context, it is the people who worship God together.

Secondly, the Bible says that the Church is the Body of Christ. It is the Temple of the Spirit. The pillar and foundation of the truth.

Please explain to me how one is not saved THROUGH the Body of Christ? Is there some other name by which we are saved than Jesus Christ?

How many people in the Bible baptized themselves???

 

[smaller]

Everyone agrees with this. HOW God "does the saving" is the issue. I think He does it through the Church (singular) He founded.

I presume you are speaking of all churches of whatever denomination?

 

[TRUTH over TRADITION]

First, "ecclesia" does not mean "the Lord's house". It refers to people coming together for some purpose. In a religious context, it is the people who worship God together.

Secondly, the Bible says that the Church is the Body of Christ. It is the Temple of the Spirit. The pillar and foundation of the truth.

Please explain to me how one is not saved THROUGH the Body of Christ? Is there some other name by which we are saved than Jesus Christ?

How many people in the Bible baptized themselves???

We are in agreement about the meaning of ecclesia, but it appears that we disagree that ecclesia and church are synonomous. In the NT it does in fact say that the Anointed One's Ecclesia/(called out ones) were each, individually dwelling places of God's Holy Breath/Spirit (1 Corithians 6:19-20). The elect individuals when looked at collectively made up the Body of the Anointed and were indeed His Ecclesia founded upon the Matthew 16:18 declaration we are all too familiar with that affirms Peter's assessment that Jesus was in fact not only the Anointed One, but also the Son of the living God. This collective body of individuals did not save anyone, it was the Christ that did the saving, not His Ecclesia. Were there those that were becoming saved added to the Ecclesia, YES, but again, the Ecclesia did not do the saving.

The people who were baptized were baptized by others who believed before them and had already been added to the called ones number. Phillip, the apostles, Apollos, and apparently many others of the faith did in fact baptize believers into Christ.

 

[Mike]

Folks, when we're on CFnet, "the one Church" refers to His worldwide body of believers regardless of where they worship. It does not and cannot refer to one of them being "the" Church. :naughty

If you are pushing that doctrine, you are in conflict with the ToS as it relates to discussions about the RCC. We all know them, so let's avoid the infighting that will ensue, the deleted posts, and a closed thread. Keep both feet and all ten toes on the right side of the line.

 

[Elijah674]

There are lots of them huh? Rev. 17:1-5 + all of these daughters.
And their doctrines place them where??

MATT. 6
[24] No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.

--Elijah