Heidi said:
Then why do Muslims follow Mohammed who admitted he murdered, Mushen? Are you saying he was wrong and contradicted the Koran? Which is it? Jesus NEVER killed. His actions agreed with his words. So which are you supposed to follow? Mohammeds actions or his words?
Muhsen said:
This are lies, Give me that verse evidence that Muhammad (PBUH) has admitted that he murder.
Muhammad and the torture and murder of Kinana
ABSTRACT
Muhammad aggressively attacked several groups of people around him. One of these groups were the Jews of Khaibar. Muhammad believed Allah led him to attack Khaibar. After Khaibar was conquered, the Jews were either enslaved, executed, or allowed to live there provided they gave the Muslims one half of all they produced. One of Muhammad's most brutal acts involved a prisoner named Kinana. Kinana was one of the leaders of Khaibar. Muhammad wanted him to reveal where some buried treasure was hidden. Kinana refused. Muhammad had him tortured to the point of death, then had him beheaded.
INTRODUCTION
When Muhammad started out on his mission, he proclaimed that he was only a "warner" for the people. As Sura 88:21 says:
"Therefore give warning, your duty is only to give warning: you are not their keeper."
At the time Muhammad spoke this verse his followers were few and weak in strength. They were disliked, and Muhammad was mocked and persecuted. He proclaimed that Allah had told him that he was only a warner to the people.
However, years later, Muhammad and his following had grown in strength. He led a strong, dedicated army. Muhammad had a degree of power. Now the rules of the game had changed. When he was weak he implored the Meccans to turn from paganism and worship only Allah. Now that he had a degree of military strength he was aggressively bearing the sword of Islam.
On page 515 of "The Life of Muhammad", which is basically a translation of Ibn Ishaq's "Sirat Rasul Allah", (The Life of the Prophet of Allah), the events of the conquest of Khaibar are detailed. This event occurred about 3 years before Muhammad's death due to poisoning. Khaibar was a large Jewish settlement about 95 miles north of Medina. The Jews there were primarily farmers. Khaibar was known to have some of the best date palms in the region. The Jews there were well to do because they had worked hard and earned it.
Prior to Muhammad's conquest of Khaibar, he had just been stopped by the Meccans from performing a pilgrimage to Mecca. Outside of Mecca, he also signed a humiliating treaty with the Meccans - a treaty that a number of his leading followers didn't like. To placate them Muhammad claimed to have a "revelation" that Allah would give them the possessions of the Jews of Khaibar. Six weeks later he marched on Khaibar with the intent to conquer and plunder.
SOURCES
The oldest extant biography of Muhammad is called the "Sirat Rasulallah"  "Life of the Prophet of Allah". This book was written by Ibn Ishaq, a devout Muslim scholar, and later revised by Ibn Hisham. It was written before any of the major works of Hadith. It is considered the most authentic biography of Muhammad. It was translated into English by A. Guillaume as "The Life of Muhammad".
Page 515 reads:
"Kinana al-Rabi, who had the custody of the treasure of Banu Nadir, was brought to the apostle who asked him about it. He denied that he knew where it was. A Jew came (Tabari says "was brought"), to the apostle and said that he had seen Kinana going round a certain ruin every morning early. When the apostle said to Kinana, "Do you know that if we find you have it I shall kill you?" He said "Yes". The apostle gave orders that the ruin was to be excavated and some of the treasure was found. When he asked him about the rest he refused to produce it, so the apostle gave orders to al-Zubayr Al-Awwam, "Torture him until you extract what he has."
So he kindled a fire with flint and steel on his chest until he was nearly dead. Then the apostle delivered him to Muhammad b. Maslama and he struck off his head, in revenge for his brother Mahmud."
DISCUSSION
I find Muhammad's orders to torture Kinana to obtain "buried treasure" similar to what criminals do to obtain people's money or possessions. I picture organized crime figures beating someone or torturing them to make them talk. "Talk!, tell us where the money is!, or we'll make your pain even worse!".
Here, Muhammad has a man tortured to force him to "Talk". Finally, when he is near death, Muhammad has his head cut off.
I don't recall Moses ever torturing people during their travels and conquest of Canaan. Certainly Jesus never taught His disciples it was okay to torture people. Yet, even after plundering Khaibar, a well to do city, Muhammad wasn't satisfied he wanted more.
QUESTIONS
Think about Muhammad's statement, "Torture him until you extract what he has". This is the prophet of Islam in action when he now has the power of the sword. What kind of a man is the prophet of Islam? How would you feel if you were watching the news and learned about this happening in your neighborhood?
Muslims complain about what the Serbs have done to the Muslims in Bosnia, and I agree with the Muslims. But if anyone were to study this act of Muhammad they would see that Muhammad also did some of the same brutal things to people. If today's Muslims feel they have the right to complain about the Serbs in Bosnia don't they feel that Muhammad's actions should also be condemned?
How much plunder was enough? Muhammad had already gained the possessions of Khaibar. No doubt he had already obtained great wealth. Was it necessary for Muhammad to do this to Kinana?
With Muhammad setting this example of pillage, enslavement, torture, and murder, is it little wonder that similar events are occurring in the Muslim world today? We all are familiar with the events occurring in Algeria, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Egypt, Mali, and Mauritania. These brutalities are not carried out by "drug gangs, or organized crime figures, or even political revolutionaries, but by devout Muslims. These Muslims want to establish their brand or Islam, similar to what Muhammad practiced. Therefore they believe they have the right to do what Muhammad did. Remember, Muslims are obligated to follow Muhammad's lifestyle, or "Sunnah". If Muhammad were allowed to torture and execute a man, just to obtain money, then Muslims today can do likewise. Is that what Muslims really want to build a society upon?
Muslims who choose to follow Muhammad choose to justify and support his evil deeds. Why put your eternity, heaven or hell, in the hands of a man like Muhammad? Is this the man you are willing to risk your eternity on?
CONCLUSION
Muhammad's action here was one of the flesh. It was sinful. It was driven by greed and hatred. These actions were not the actions of a true prophet of God, they were the actions of a man determined on doing his own will, and accomplishing his own desires.
The New Testament in 1 Tim. 6:10 says: "For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil..."
Muhammad's greed drove him to doing evil; torturing and then murdering a man, just for obtaining money.
Jesus taught a better way: "Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy and where thieves break in and steal. But store up for yourselves treasures in heaven where moth and rust do not destroy and where thieves do not break in and steal. For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also." Matthew 6:91-21
I would ask all Muslims to consider the true Jesus. Put your faith and trust in Him.
http://www.geocities.com/gary_bee_za/mu ... kinana.htm
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