OSAS is biblical truth.

[chessman]

So then you are non-OSAS, which says those who persevere in their faith are the ones that are saved.

I've been called worse names
Not quite sure how you can take the P out of TULIP and call it non-OSAS, but we are a far field of Eph 2:8-9 already.

 

[JLB]

"3 Therefore, holy brothers and sisters, who share in the heavenly calling, fix your thoughts on Jesus... 6 ...we are his house, if indeed we hold firmly to our confidence and the hope in which we glory." (Hebrews 3:3,6 NIV) Holy people, who presently share in the heavenly calling, who are of the household of Christ,

I think you quoted verses v1 then v6 from chapter 3, not verse three. (I don’t know why the biblegateway or other sites doesn’t put in “1†for the first verse. I’ve been caught by that too.
But to your point, here it is in the ESV:

3:1 Therefore, holy brothers, you who share in a heavenly calling, consider Jesus, the apostle and high priest of our confession… 6 but Christ is faithful over God's house as a son. And we are his house if indeed we hold fast our confidence and our boasting in our hope.
​

It seems obvious that the author recognized that not every person reading this letter/Scripture was/is in fact someone who “share in a heavenly calling†or “his houseâ€. So this Scripture is merely defining only those that “hold fast†are of his type. It doesn’t say that they were of that type then slipped out of it. That’s read into the text. We know this (at least in this particular passage) because he clarifies that by saying what he did in verse 12 (also addressed to a bipartisan crowd).

12 Take care, brothers, lest there be in any of you an evil, unbelieving heart, leading you to fall away from the living God.
​

12 Take care, brothers, lest there be in any of you an evil, unbelieving heart, leading you to fall away from the living God.

What in this scripture leads you to the conclusion that the people that Were being addressed were "bi-partisan".

This was written to believers, not some saved and some not saved.


JLB

 

[George Muller]

I don't do any of them ever.

enmities, strife, jealousies, wraths, factions, divisions, parties,
21 envyings, drunkenness, revellings, and such like;

1Co 3:3 for ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you jealousy and strife, are ye not carnal, and do ye not walk after the manner of men?

To walk in the flesh, is to walk in the natural condition of man, anyone who claims they "never" walk in the flesh, is not honest and does not understand this biblical term.

 

[JLB]

I don't do any of them ever.

enmities, strife, jealousies, wraths, factions, divisions, parties,
21 envyings, drunkenness, revellings, and such like;

1Co 3:3 for ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you jealousy and strife, are ye not carnal, and do ye not walk after the manner of men?

To walk in the flesh, is to walk in the natural condition of man, anyone who claims they "never" walk in the flesh, is not honest and does not understand this biblical term.

I don't practice those things that Paul listed.

I don't do them.

If I do something to grieve the Holy Spirit, He lets me know, and I repent.


The bottom line here is: you have been shown by several people here the scriptures that refute OSAS as an unscriptural doctrine.

You should turn away from teaching this to people and giving them a false sense of security.

The full counsel of God as led by the Holy Spirit is what is productive for making fruitful Christians.


JLB

 

[JLB]

Paul called a whole Church "carnal" in the flesh, he did not "unsave" any of them

Whether they are saved or not will be determined at the end of their faith, when their life is over and they give an account of their life at the judgment.

In the mean time, why don't you visit this site called Ex Christian. net, specifically this thread - What killed your faith for good - http://www.ex-christian.net/topic/53160-what-killed-your-faith-for-good

You can tell them them that all their blaspheming of God and their "new" beliefs are all OK, since they were saved at one time they will always be saved.


JLB

 

[George Muller]

The thread title is called What killed your faith for good?

EDITED no need to call out a brother like that. reba. I do not need it and the scriptures describe in clear terms what it means to turn from faith and that is to turn to the law of Moses, "for the law is not of faith"
and no doubt it was the hypocrites and legalist in the church that overturned the faith of many, but it will be better for these poor people on judgment Day, than for those who caused them to stumble and lose their confidence in the Grace of Christ (if in fact they had this grace?) through the teaching of false doctrine and displays of religious hypocricy. For some to turn from mans religion, that some call "Christianity" means nothing. I have never known anyone to turn From Christ, but many have been led to believe they could not trust in His Grace by people such as these. I pray these hypocrites reap that which they have sown.
Jas 2:13 For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy; and mercy rejoiceth against judgment.

Jas 3:14 But if ye have bitter jealousy and faction in your heart, glory not and lie not against the truth.
15 This wisdom is not a wisdom that cometh down from above, but is earthly, sensual, devilish.

Ro 2:1 ¶ Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things.

 

[George Muller]

Whether they are saved or not will be determined at the end of their faith, when their life is over and they give an account of their life at the judgment.

Well if they do not turn to the law, and abide in grace they cannot be lost. "for the law is not of faith" And Paul had no doubts about the salvation of these believers.

1Co 3:21 Wherefore let no one glory in men. For all things are yours;
22 whether Paul, or Apollos, or Cephas, or the world, or life, or death, or things present, or things to come; all are yours;
23 and ye are Christ's; and Christ is God's.

EDITED

 

[George Muller]

I don't practice those things that Paul listed.

You said you don't do any of them "ever" now you say "practice" which is it?

 

[George Muller]

The bottom line here is: you have been shown by several people here the scriptures that refute OSAS as an unscriptural doctrine.

You should turn away from teaching this to people and giving them a false sense of security.

The full counsel of God as led by the Holy Spirit is what is productive for making fruitful Christians.

I have not seen any evidence that my doctrine can be challenge in any way, for my doctrine is the Grace of Christ, and it cannot fail to save, the ONLY warniongs of scripture that in any way could relate to the loss of salvation, is a direct result of the rejection of grace and a attempt to justify oneself by the law of Moses. Lets look at what Paul calls the "full counsel" of God? Do you even know the scriptures? You use terms that you seem to have no understanding of?


Ac 20:24 But I hold not my life of any account as dear unto myself, so that I may accomplish my course, and the ministry which I received from the Lord Jesus, to testify the gospel of the grace of God.
25 And now, behold, I know that ye all, among whom I went about preaching the kingdom, shall see my face no more.
26 Wherefore I testify unto you this day, that I am pure from the blood of all men.
27 For I shrank not from declaring unto you the whole counsel of God.
28 Take heed unto yourselves, and to all the flock, in which the Holy Spirit hath made you bishops, to feed the church of the Lord which he purchased with his own blood.
29 I know that after my departing grievous wolves shall enter in among you, not sparing the flock;
30 and from among your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away the disciples after them.
31 Wherefore watch ye, remembering that by the space of three years I ceased not to admonish every one night and day with tears.
32 And now I commend you to God, and to the word of his grace, which is able to build you up, and to give you the inheritance among all them that are sanctified.

Grace is the whole counsel, and as Paul warned in every epistle "the law is not of faith"

 

[JLB]

The thread title is called What killed your faith for good?

EDITED no need to call out a brother like that. reba. I do not need it and the scriptures describe in clear terms what it means to turn from faith and that is to turn to the law of Moses, "for the law is not of faith"
and no doubt it was the hypocrites and legalist in the church that overturned the faith of many, but it will be better for these poor people on judgment Day, than for those who caused them to stumble and lose their confidence in the Grace of Christ (if in fact they had this grace?) through the teaching of false doctrine and displays of religious hypocricy. For some to turn from mans religion, that some call "Christianity" means nothing. I have never known anyone to turn From Christ, but many have been led to believe they could not trust in His Grace by people such as these. I pray these hypocrites reap that which they have sown.
Jas 2:13 For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy; and mercy rejoiceth against judgment.

Jas 3:14 But if ye have bitter jealousy and faction in your heart, glory not and lie not against the truth.
15 This wisdom is not a wisdom that cometh down from above, but is earthly, sensual, devilish.

Ro 2:1 ¶ Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things.

George, this is a site of Ex Christians.

If you are truly interested in knowing the truth about what has caused them to turn away from the faith, then please at least go there and look around and pray for them.

JLB

 

[JLB]

The bottom line here is: you have been shown by several people here the scriptures that refute OSAS as an unscriptural doctrine.

You should turn away from teaching this to people and giving them a false sense of security.

The full counsel of God as led by the Holy Spirit is what is productive for making fruitful Christians.

I have not seen any evidence that my doctrine can be challenge in any way, for my doctrine is the Grace of Christ, and it cannot fail to save, the ONLY warniongs of scripture that in any way could relate to the loss of salvation, is a direct result of the rejection of grace and a attempt to justify oneself by the law of Moses. Lets look at what Paul calls the "full counsel" of God? Do you even know the scriptures? You use terms that you have no understanding of?


Ac 20:24 But I hold not my life of any account as dear unto myself, so that I may accomplish my course, and the ministry which I received from the Lord Jesus, to testify the gospel of the grace of God.
25 And now, behold, I know that ye all, among whom I went about preaching the kingdom, shall see my face no more.
26 Wherefore I testify unto you this day, that I am pure from the blood of all men.
27 For I shrank not from declaring unto you the whole counsel of God.
28 Take heed unto yourselves, and to all the flock, in which the Holy Spirit hath made you bishops, to feed the church of the Lord which he purchased with his own blood.
29 I know that after my departing grievous wolves shall enter in among you, not sparing the flock;
30 and from among your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away the disciples after them.
31 Wherefore watch ye, remembering that by the space of three years I ceased not to admonish every one night and day with tears.
32 And now I commend you to God, and to the word of his grace, which is able to build you up, and to give you the inheritance among all them that are sanctified.

Grace is the whole counsel, and as Paul warned in every epistle "the law is not of faith"

Your doctrine has in fact been challenged, and weighed by the balance of scripture and been found extremely wanting.

Once saved always saved has no root in the scripture, only in the doctrines of man.

Especially in light of a phrase like; I will blot you out of my book!

It just doesn't get anymore real than that.



JLB

 

[George Muller]

all their blaspheming of God and their "new" beliefs are all OK, since they were saved at one time they will always be saved.

Ro 2:21 thou therefore that teachest another, teachest thou not thyself? thou that preachest a man should not steal, dost thou steal?
22 thou that sayest a man should not commit adultery, dost thou commit adultery? thou that abhorrest idols, dost thou rob temples?
23 thou who gloriest in the law, through thy transgression of the law dishonorest thou God?
24 For the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles because of you, even as it is written.

It is the hypocricy of the legalist that cause the name of God to be balsphemed

 

[George Muller]

Your doctrine has in fact been challenged,

Not in any way and the only recourse you have to attempt to silence the wisdom of God that I have, is to attempt some personal conflict, in hopes to silence the truth. Your idea of balance and what is "wanting" means nothing, for those things I have declared cannot be challenged. It is the legalist alone that is in danger of being removed from the book of life.


Ga 5:4 You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.

 

[George Muller]

Oh no? my post are being tampered with! although I do not see the same standard being applied to other post? I wonder why?:toofunny

 

[George Muller]

I see now why you have to defend a false doctrine so vehemently.

You own personal hypocrisy must find away around the truth of scripture.

George, your going to have to learn to get free from sin just like everyone else.

Here is a "personal attack" where is the edit? Where is the standard?:dunno

 

[JLB]

I see now why you have to defend a false doctrine so vehemently.

You own personal hypocrisy must find away around the truth of scripture.

George, your going to have to learn to get free from sin just like everyone else.

Here is a "personal attack" where is the edit? Where is the standard?:dunno

George,

This is an observation that I made about you, when you chose to open this kind of dialog with you initial comment to me.

Let's just stick to the scriptures and our personal testimonies of how God has brought us out of the bondage of the flesh, and taught us how to have victory by sowing to the spirit, and living from our new nature.


JLB

 

[JLB]

I see now why you have to defend a false doctrine so vehemently.

You own personal hypocrisy must find away around the truth of scripture.

George, your going to have to learn to get free from sin just like everyone else.

Here is a "personal attack" where is the edit? Where is the standard?:dunno

She couldn't delete it, because I had already deleted it, George.:naughty


JLB

 

[chessman]

Whether they are saved or not will be determined at the end of their faith, when their life is over and they give an account of their life at the judgment.

Your statement contradicts Eph 2:8-9 's message.

Eph 2:8~~For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;



"you have been saved" should read in our English as," you being saved in the past you continue on being saved now and you are saved forever and ever." It is a dogmatic and unquestionable truth from the words perspective.

It is what is called a periphrastic perfect in the Koine Greek and is one of the most powerful and forceful phrases in the Koine Greek. It is when the writer cannot get all the details and the importance of the details in one verbal form so the writer uses 2 verbal forms to get the importance of the statement across to the readers. It offers NO loopholes for the reader.

"saved" is the Intensive perfect/passive/participle of sozo in the Greek. the intensive perfect says, "the Action(saved) is a completed action and continues on forever and forever."

"you have been" is present/active/indicative of eimi. and the present tense says that ," the Action(saved) continues on in the present.

If conditional security is true. Show the readers that John 5:24 and Eph 2:8 do not prove eternal security.

 

[chessman]

Deleted duplicate post

 

[JLB]

Whether they are saved or not will be determined at the end of their faith, when their life is over and they give an account of their life at the judgment.

Your statement contradicts Eph 2:8-9 's message.

Eph 2:8~~For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;



"you have been saved" should read in our English as," you being saved in the past you continue on being saved now and you are saved forever and ever." It is a dogmatic and unquestionable truth from the words perspective.

It is what is called a periphrastic perfect in the Koine Greek and is one of the most powerful and forceful phrases in the Koine Greek. It is when the writer cannot get all the details and the importance of the details in one verbal form so the writer uses 2 verbal forms to get the importance of the statement across to the readers. It offers NO loopholes for the reader.

"saved" is the Intensive perfect/passive/participle of sozo in the Greek. the intensive perfect says, "the Action(saved) is a completed action and continues on forever and forever."

"you have been" is present/active/indicative of eimi. and the present tense says that ," the Action(saved) continues on in the present.

If conditional security is true. Show the readers that John 5:24 and Eph 2:8 do not prove eternal security.

8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast. Ephesians 2:8-9


If you believe the Gospel and repent, then you are saved. The question is, will your faith continue to the end or will you deny Him.

If we endure, We shall also reign with Him. If we deny Him, He also will deny us. 2 Timothy 2:12

and again -

But whoever denies Me before men, him I will also deny before My Father who is in heaven. Matthew 10:33

You must continue in the faith and endure to the end to be saved.

The end of your faith is the salvation of your soul, not the beginning of you faith.


20 But he who received the seed on stony places, this is he who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy; 21 yet he has no root in himself, but endures only for a while. For when tribulation or persecution arises because of the word, immediately he stumbles.

12 For whoever has, to him more will be given, and he will have abundance; but whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken away from him. Matthew 13:12


and again -

6 but Christ as a Son over His own house, whose house we are if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm to the end. Hebrews 3:6

and again -

12 Beware, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God; 13 but exhort one another daily, while it is called "Today," lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. 14 For we have become partakers of Christ if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end. Hebrews 3:12-14


lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God;

...if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end.


If a person employs their free will to depart from the faith and are moved away from the hope of the Gospel message, then they no longer have a faith that will ensure their salvation.

1 Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons, 2 speaking lies in hypocrisy, having their own conscience seared with a hot iron, 1 Timothy 4:1-2


and again -


3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition... 2 Thessalonians 2:3

and again -


4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame. 7 For the earth which drinks in the rain that often comes upon it, and bears herbs useful for those by whom it is cultivated, receives blessing from God; 8 but if it bears thorns and briars, it is rejected and near to being cursed, whose end is to be burned. Hebrews 6:4-8


Ephesians 2:8 teaches us that it is by grace through faith you have been saved, not of works.

The main point is that you must employ your faith to be saved.

If you decided to employ your faith towards other religions or the law, or even choose not to employ your faith any longer, then in the end if you have not repented, then it is certainly possible for a person to lose what they once had.

Now it is up to you to explain why all these scriptures don't mean what they say.

Stating Ephesians 2:8, one scripture taken out of context just won't do it.



JLB