OSAS is biblical truth.

[JLB]

For I am convinced that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor any other created thing, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord. (Romans 8:38-39)

Amen, nothing can separate us from God's Love. Not even if you go to hell, for He will still love you.

Once God imputes us with His righteousness and then His eternal life . . . then not even He can take back what He has graciously given.

We are to BECOME the righteousness of God...

21 For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him. 2 Corinthians 5:21


JLB

 

[Eugene]

and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the Book of Life, from the holy city, and FROM the things which are written in this book. Revelation 22:19

Ya got me brother. :chokedup Do you figure a child of God is being spoke of in Rev 22:19? In other words, if in Revelation 3:5 He will not blot an over-comer out of the book of life, could we suppose He is talking of believers there, and false prophets or unbelievers in Rev 22:19? What do you suppose the book of life is for? Any idea what it takes to be an over-comer?

Have you noticed I made the word "FROM" blue font to bring attention to the fact a word was added to the text of Revelation 22:19 in your quote above. Who'll take the hit on that one?

 

[Elijah674]

If all the verses that are used for conditional security are truly showing Christians that God will toss believers in the lake of Fire. Then will conditional security adherents please disprove all the eternally secure verses?

Lets start with Eph 2:8 for starters. John 5:24 is the dogmatic verse that Jesus spoke on this earth that pertained to the doctrine of eternal security in His word.

John 5:24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My Word, and believes Him Who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.â€

Pay careful attention, this is NOT a salvation verse. This is a dogmatic statement of eternal security for the believer.

NoticeThe first two words . When the Lord says, “Truly, truly†in the Greek, this is known as a sentential participle, which emphasizes an important point of doctrine. These two words actually mean, for certain, without a doubt, or indeed. Whenever the Lord Jesus Christ says, “Amen, amen†or “Truly, trulyâ€, it introduces a point of doctrine, a very vital truth of tremendous importance. The Lord Jesus Christ knew exactly what doctrinal principles Satan would attack, and “Truly, truly†is a warning that what was about to be said would inevitably be under attack by the kingdom of darkness. Each time the phrase is used, it introduces a truth that is of the greatest importance, i.e., something we need to pay particular attention to.

Eph 2:8~~For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;



"you have been saved" should read in our English as," you being saved in the past you continue on being saved now and you are saved forever and ever." It is a dogmatic and unquestionable truth from the words perspective.

It is what is called a periphrastic perfect in the Koine Greek and is one of the most powerful and forceful phrases in the Koine Greek. It is when the writer cannot get all the details and the importance of the details in one verbal form so the writer uses 2 verbal forms to get the importance of the statement across to the readers. It offers NO loopholes for the reader.

"saved" is the Intensive perfect/passive/participle of sozo in the Greek. the intensive perfect says, "the Action(saved) is a completed action and continues on forever and forever."

"you have been" is present/active/indicative of eimi. and the present tense says that ," the Action(saved) continues on in the present.

If conditional security is true. Show the readers that John 5:24 and Eph 2:8 do not prove eternal security.

No, no truth seen here!
--Elijah

 

[Jethro Bodine]

And the Law came in that the transgression might increase; but where sin increased, grace abounded all the more, that, as sin reigned in death, even so grace might reign through righteousness to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. (Romans 5:20-21)

“Let us do evil that good may come� Their condemnation is just. (Romans 3:8 NASB)

You cannot do evil (because of willful unbelief) and think grace abounds to cover it. No way. Paul says your condemnation is deserved.

 

[JLB]

and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the Book of Life, from the holy city, and FROM the things which are written in this book. Revelation 22:19

Ya got me brother. :chokedup Do you figure a child of God is being spoke of in Rev 22:19? In other words, if in Revelation 3:5 He will not blot an over-comer out of the book of life, could we suppose He is talking of believers there, and false prophets or unbelievers in Rev 22:19? What do you suppose the book of life is for? Any idea what it takes to be an over-comer?

Have you noticed I made the word "FROM" blue font to bring attention to the fact a word was added to the text of Revelation 22:19 in your quote above. Who'll take the hit on that one?

19 and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the Book of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book. Revelation 22:19

I highlighted the part of this scripture that pertains to your question.

This is how it reads in the New King James.

I copy and past the entire text just as it reads.

I get the meaning of what is being said in these verse's.

If you feel a word is not right in the verse, then feel free to scratch it out. :dunno


JLB

 

[Eugene]

19 and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the Book of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book. Revelation 22:19

I highlighted the part of this scripture that pertains to your question.

This is how it reads in the New King James.

I copy and past the entire text just as it reads.

I get the meaning of what is being said in these verse's.

If you feel a word is not right in the verse, then feel free to scratch it out.

The meaning of my question is that if there is added words to scripture and you copied them; are you also removed from the book of life? In other words, what do you restrict or excuse that scripture to mean and to who was it spoken to?

 

[JLB]

19 and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the Book of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book. Revelation 22:19

I highlighted the part of this scripture that pertains to your question.

This is how it reads in the New King James.

I copy and past the entire text just as it reads.

I get the meaning of what is being said in these verse's.

If you feel a word is not right in the verse, then feel free to scratch it out.

The meaning of my question is that if there is added words to scripture and you copied them; are you also removed from the book of life? In other words, what do you restrict or excuse that scripture to mean and to who was it spoken to?

I know what you mean, and I believe my post reflects that.

I believe what this scripture says.

As far as your opinion about what word was added or not, is irrelevant.


JLB

 

[Brother Mike]

EDITED

Ya got me brother. Do you figure a child of God is being spoke of in Rev 22:19? In other words, if in Revelation 3:5 He will not blot an over-comer out of the book of life, could we suppose He is talking of believers there, and false prophets or unbelievers in Rev 22:19? What do you suppose the book of life is for? Any idea what it takes to be an over-comer?

Rev_3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

He that overcomes will also keep their name in the book. This is not tribulation period, this letter was sent to the churches in Asia Minor in Johns day. It still applies today. You can't make Jesus your lord, get dunked in Water then choose to live your own life the way you want. If you do, then Jesus is not Lord of your life, but your Lord over your own life.

Rev_13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

From the very start of the World a record has been kept. Names in, names out.

Luk_11:50 That the blood of all the prophets, which was shed from the foundation of the world, may be required of this generation;

From the foundation of the World the word of the prophets could be followed or ignored.

We can choose today to do our own thing and not make Jesus Lord.

Col_3:23 And whatsoever ye do, do it heartily, as to the Lord, and not unto men;

We must be conscience of everything we do, everything we say, how we respond, how we react. If We believe we have a Lord to follow and please at all times.

it's these doctrines of being some poor sinner saved by grace.......... and we are all human and worthless. It's those that make excuses, it's those that are in trouble. We are not some poor sinner saved by grace. We are far from powerless, but filled with the Might of the Holy Spirit and strong in the Lord. We are the righteousness of God in Christ Jesus. If you don't take your position and live by faith, then it may not go well for you.

Mike.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

For I am convinced that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor any other created thing, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord. (Romans 8:38-39)

Amen, nothing can separate us from God's Love. Not even if you go to hell, for He will still love you.

Once God imputes us with His righteousness and then His eternal life . . . then not even He can take back what He has graciously given.

We are to BECOME the righteousness of God...

21 For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him. 2 Corinthians 5:21


JLB

"5 For through the Spirit we eagerly await by faith the righteousness for which we hope." (Galatians 5:5 NIV)

For now we have the down payment of that promised righteousness--the Holy Spirit--credited to our account.


"...by faith." "...through the Spirit..." But some say you do not have to persevere in faith to realize the hope of righteousness that faith secures for you.

 

[Elijah674]

For I am convinced that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor any other created thing, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord. (Romans 8:38-39)

Amen, nothing can separate us from God's Love. Not even if you go to hell, for He will still love you.

Once God imputes us with His righteousness and then His eternal life . . . then not even He can take back what He has graciously given.

We are to BECOME the righteousness of God...

21 For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him. 2 Corinthians 5:21


JLB

"5 For through the Spirit we eagerly await by faith the righteousness for which we hope." (Galatians 5:5 NIV)

For now we have the down payment of that promised righteousness--the Holy Spirit--credited to our account.


"...by faith." "...through the Spirit..." But some say you do not have to persevere in faith to realize the hope of righteousness that faith secures for you.

With that being so, they are 'promising liberty' as 2 Peter 2:19-22 on documents! That is what OSAS is in BOTTOM/LINE!

--Elijah

 

[Eugene]

He that overcomes will also keep their name in the book.

I think you are saying that it is Christ keeping us in the book of life as the One that overcame the world, though I'm not sure how you're applying our walk as to overcoming. I was referring to 1 John 5:4-5 that applies to all who have received Christ as their Savior. 4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith. 5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God? Our walk in Christ pertains to our reward, not our salvation kept by Jesus to whom we are all given.

Joh 6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me (We did); and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. (Affirmed in Rev 3:5).
Joh 6:38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.
Joh 6:39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. Is Jesus up to the task of keeping us? Oh but some say; I can jump out of Jesus' hand. Yeah, he fell away huh, he didn't keep all the law, or he didn't allow Jesus to take full control in their life at all times; just one of those backsliders. I will add that that dirty person got a speeding ticket when they knew they were told to obey the law; just sinning that grace may abound huh? They'll get their comeuppance.

 

[Brother Mike]

and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith. 5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God? Our walk in Christ pertains to our reward, not our salvation kept by Jesus to whom we are all given.

yes, we must walk by faith, and there are rewards for those that did as they were called to do. It would seem that certain scriptures get mixed up in Walking by faith, pleasing God, and scriptures that may pertain to actually not being saved anymore and roasting away in Hell.

Let's all walk by faith, staying on the path God has declared for us, doing all we were called and anointed to do. This way we avoid having to even have these discussions.

Blessings Brother!!!

Mike.

 

[JLB]

For I am convinced that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor any other created thing, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord. (Romans 8:38-39)

Amen, nothing can separate us from God's Love. Not even if you go to hell, for He will still love you.

Once God imputes us with His righteousness and then His eternal life . . . then not even He can take back what He has graciously given.

We are to BECOME the righteousness of God...

21 For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him. 2 Corinthians 5:21


JLB

"5 For through the Spirit we eagerly await by faith the righteousness for which we hope." (Galatians 5:5 NIV)

For now we have the down payment of that promised righteousness--the Holy Spirit--credited to our account.


"...by faith." "...through the Spirit..." But some say you do not have to persevere in faith to realize the hope of righteousness that faith secures for you.

Very insightful and well worded post, Brother.


JLB

 

[JLB]

and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith. 5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God? Our walk in Christ pertains to our reward, not our salvation kept by Jesus to whom we are all given.

yes, we must walk by faith, and there are rewards for those that did as they were called to do. It would seem that certain scriptures get mixed up in Walking by faith, pleasing God, and scriptures that may pertain to actually not being saved anymore and roasting away in Hell.

Let's all walk by faith, staying on the path God has declared for us, doing all we were called and anointed to do. This way we avoid having to even have these discussions.

Blessings Brother!!!

Mike.

Yes sir. :help

Good advice!!


JLB

 

[JLB]

Joh 6:39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

Yes, I agree it is the Father's will that none should perish, but that all may come to repentance.


JLB

 

[Elijah674]

OK: What are the way's that we will know that we are saved then, if it is by 'working faith alone'?
James 2: 20 + 1 John 2:4-8

--Elijah

 

[Eugene]

Originally Posted by Eugene
Joh 6:39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
Yes, I agree it is the Father's will that none should perish, but that all may come to repentance.

Dear brother, wouldn't you agree that it is Jesus doing the keeping, it is Jesus that isn't going to fail accomplishing our Father's will by losing even one of us, and it is Jesus that will in no wise cast us out?

 

[Eugene]

OK: What are the way's that we will know that we are saved then, if it is by 'working faith alone'?
James 2: 20 + 1 John 2:4-8

These are taking of our man's knowledge. We can be in Christ and no longer even have faith to pray, but God sees us in Christ. Man's thinking will produce that which Jesus tells the disciples in Mat 7:20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them; in other words you'll know them by their works.

 

[Elijah674]

Originally Posted by Eugene
Joh 6:39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
Yes, I agree it is the Father's will that none should perish, but that all may come to repentance.

Dear brother, wouldn't you agree that it is Jesus doing the keeping, it is Jesus that isn't going to fail accomplishing our Father's will by losing even one of us, and it is Jesus that will in no wise cast us out?

But that is the point! God the Farther knows who are his that Christ did die to save, but we know ONLY by working faith. Heb. 11:1-2 And these all died 'IN' FAITH! ibid Heb. 11:13

And any other teaching? There is another thread about it being satans teaching when it does not agree with his facts! Yet, we find that it is not biblical truth at all!

--Elijah

 

[JLB]

Originally Posted by Eugene
Joh 6:39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
Yes, I agree it is the Father's will that none should perish, but that all may come to repentance.

Dear brother, wouldn't you agree that it is Jesus doing the keeping, it is Jesus that isn't going to fail accomplishing our Father's will by losing even one of us, and it is Jesus that will in no wise cast us out?

Didn't Judas choose to obey the sinful desire for money, rather than God, even though it was God's will that Jesus would not lose any?

What was it that kept Peter from being sifted as wheat? What did Jesus specifically pray for Peter, so that He did not go the way of Judas.

... That his faith would not fail.


JLB