OSAS winning Christ? OSNAS just hanging on?

[FreeGrace]

Yes, the one who is not in union with Christ will spend eternity apart from Him.

Jesus said those He gives eternal life will never perish in John 10:28. So your conclusion is in direct conflict with what Jesus said.

You will never find one passage that states eternal life is something you possess without being in union with Christ.

I wouldn't expect to.

Also, you will never find any passage that states that one who has been given eternal life will perish.

When a person leaves Christ, they leave the only eternal life there is.

The few verses about "leaving" or "severed" etc would be in direct conflict with what Jesus said, IF they meant loss of union with Christ.

Is that a position one would be comfortable with?

Not me.

 

[Nathan]

Jesus said those He gives eternal life will never perish in John 10:28. So your conclusion is in direct conflict with what Jesus said.

It's actually not in conflict, but rather in direct union with what Christ said.

Jesus was very specific in John 10 that it is He that gives life. So if you are not in union with Him, you will not receive life.

1 John 5 gives no room to understand this differently. So instead of trying to make the whole Bible agree with a misunderstanding of one verse in John 10, we should see how all the words of God agree to a complete message from Him.

John 6
53 So Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you.
54 Whoever feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.
55 For my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink.
56 Whoever feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood abides in me, and I in him.
57 As the living Father sent me, and I live because of the Father, so whoever feeds on me, he also will live because of me.

I would rather put my trust in all of what God says than to trust what I think He said in one verse which contradicts what He says everywhere else.

 

[billybalke]

I said this;
"I've found no verses that say anything about losing salvation. I'd be happy to entertain any verse that says that."

I've always provided an explanation of any verses used for "losss of salvation".

Hi Free Grace--Its my fault you misunderstood my post. I asked Cygnus if he wished to discuss our subject on the one-one-one. To date I have not had an answer. My post was to the effect that if he chose not to then perhaps you would discuss on the one-on-one. The offer is still open if he decides not---God bless.

 

[Cygnus]

Hi Free Grace--Its my fault you misunderstood my post. I asked Cygnus if he wished to discuss our subject on the one-one-one. To date I have not had an answer. My post was to the effect that if he chose not to then perhaps you would discuss on the one-on-one. The offer is still open if he decides not---God bless.

I must have missed that post or it may have been deleted.
So, what is the one-one-one question, topic you would like to discuss?

 

[billybalke]

I must have missed that post or it may have been deleted.
So, what is the one-one-one question, topic you would like to discuss?

Posts 153-155
God bless

 

[Cygnus]

Posts 153-155
God bless

I'll stick with my previous reply....What you are saying is that the free gift of salvation...if you've received it is now dependent on what you do.

So much for the free gift.

 

[billybalke]

I'll stick with my previous reply....What you are saying is that the free gift of salvation...if you've received it is now dependent on what you do.

So much for the free gift.

My question was will you discuss the matter on the one-on-one?

 

[Cygnus]

What you are saying is that the free gift of salvation...if you've received it is now dependent on what you do.

So much for the free gift.

My question was will you discuss the matter on the one-on-one?

Sure.

You'l need to start it...set it up.

 

[billybalke]

Sure.

You'l need to start it...set it up.

If you will I prefer you start as I'm new at this. It will be necessary to mutual agreement on a proposition etc.

God bless, Billy

 

[Chopper]

Actually, it's always been through faith. Belief in God based on what He tells us/them. Hebrews is written for believers in Christ.

I don't believe righteousness before God ever came from works.

Romans 3:20 (ESV)
For by works of the law no human being will be justified in his sight, since through the law comes knowledge of sin.

It's always been faith, before Christ looking forward to salvation, after Christ looking back on it. In all times looking to God who forgives.

I understand what you're saying. The Jew thought that righteousness came from a close adherence to the Law of Moses. In other words, a works based system. I have found that as a Nation, Israel had a problem with faith. One day they had faith in Moses' leadership, and the next day they were grumbling and accusing him of letting them die in the wilderness. They, IMO, doubted God more than having faith in Him....Just my thoughts.

 

[Cygnus]

If you will I prefer you start as I'm new at this. It will be necessary to mutual agreement on a proposition etc.

God bless, Billy

I've never did a one on one before. So, I'm just as new as you are when it come to doing that.
Secondly, I don't even know exactly what you want to debate. I believe I have an idea about why you want to discuss in a one-on one, but I need you to present your position first.

 

[Cygnus]

I understand what you're saying. The Jew thought that righteousness came from a close adherence to the Law of Moses. In other words, a works based system. I have found that as a Nation, Israel had a problem with faith. One day they had faith in Moses' leadership, and the next day they were grumbling and accusing him of letting them die in the wilderness. They, IMO, doubted God more than having faith in Him....Just my thoughts.

I also heard the Jews thought they were "in" because they were related to Abraham.

 

[billybalke]

I've never did a one on one before. So, I'm just as new as you are when it come to doing that.
Secondly, I don't even know exactly what you want to debate. I believe I have an idea about why you want to discuss in a one-on one, but I need you to present your position first.

I believe a child of God, a Christian, one in Christ, one who has had remission of sins etc. can be lost. Does that help? Also, how can we make preparation for this apart from this thread so as not to interfere with others?

 

[Nathan]

I understand what you're saying. The Jew thought that righteousness came from a close adherence to the Law of Moses. In other words, a works based system. I have found that as a Nation, Israel had a problem with faith. One day they had faith in Moses' leadership, and the next day they were grumbling and accusing him of letting them die in the wilderness. They, IMO, doubted God more than having faith in Him....Just my thoughts.

I agree chopper. They simply did not understand who God is and what He wants.

One thing about it, through their stupidity we see the grace of God to all mankind.

 

[Not_Now.Soon]

I believe a child of God, a Christian, one in Christ, one who has had remission of sins etc. can be lost. Does that help? Also, how can we make preparation for this apart from this thread so as not to interfere with others?

Contact a moderator to help set it up. WIP, Mike, and JohnDB are the moderators in the theology section. So I'd suggest sending one of them a PM to help get it set up. When you enter the theology section they are listed at the top before you scroll down to the threads and discussions in the theology section.

 

[Cygnus]

I believe a child of God, a Christian, one in Christ, one who has had remission of sins etc. can be lost. Does that help? Also, how can we make preparation for this apart from this thread so as not to interfere with others?

That helps a lot. My view is that you are incorrect....as you probably already know. Salvation can't be lost.

 

[reba]

Scriptures tell us we are all sinners ..
Rom_3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
1Jn_1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
Scriptures tell us to repent
Mar_1:15 And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.
Mar_6:12 And they went out, and preached that men should repent.

IMO nosas believe repenting is a on going state .. We mess up tell a lie we repent.. we are forgiven..

Does the OSAS 'side believe in repenting over our natural life time or only at the time of Salvation ?

 

[Not_Now.Soon]

I believe a child of God, a Christian, one in Christ, one who has had remission of sins etc. can be lost. Does that help? Also, how can we make preparation for this apart from this thread so as not to interfere with others?

That helps a lot. My view is that you are incorrect....as you probably already know. Salvation can't be lost.

Being one on one might help. As a word of caution though, I've seen several OSAS/OSNAS threads get heated and then get closed or deleted. So please remember that you two are both brothers in faith, and so treat eachother with respect and hopefully a bit of kindness.

 

[FreeGrace]

I said this:
"Jesus said those He gives eternal life will never perish in John 10:28. So your conclusion is in direct conflict with what Jesus said."

It's actually not in conflict, but rather in direct union with what Christ said.

Everything Christ said is in union. But your conclusion is in direct conflict with what He said. I'm just sad that you're not seeing it.

Here's the deal: everyone He gives eternal life will never perish. That's what John 10:28 means.

Jesus was very specific in John 10 that it is He that gives life. So if you are not in union with Him, you will not receive life.

I am baffled as to why this continuing insistence that one who has been marked IN HIM with a guanteed seal can become un-sealed.

This is simply fallacious and are no verses that teach that notion. And IF there were, then those verses would be in direct conflict with what Jesus said.

1 John 5 gives no room to understand this differently. So instead of trying to make the whole Bible agree with a misunderstanding of one verse in John 10

I've NOT misunderstood John 10:28. It is clear as day. He gives eternal life and those will never perish.

So all to whom He gives eternal life will never perish. This is eternal security.

 

[FreeGrace]

Scriptures tell us we are all sinners ..
Rom_3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
1Jn_1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
Scriptures tell us to repent
Mar_1:15 And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.
Mar_6:12 And they went out, and preached that men should repent.

IMO nosas believe repenting is a on going state .. We mess up tell a lie we repent.. we are forgiven..

Does the OSAS 'side believe in repenting over our natural life time or only at the time of Salvation ?

I believe (I won't speak for anyone else who claims OSAS) that salvation is obtained the MOMENT one believes in Christ for salvation (Acts 16:31).

And from that MOMENT, since we also know it is Christ who gives eternal life when one believes (John 5:24), we know that those who have received eternal life from Him WILL NEVER PERISH (Jn 10:28).

I also believe that repenting is an on-going issue, but NOT to maintain one's salvation. Rather, to restore fellowship with Him.