OSAS winning Christ? OSNAS just hanging on?

[Cygnus]

I believe (I won't speak for anyone else who claims OSAS) that salvation is obtained the MOMENT one believes in Christ for salvation (Acts 16:31).

And from that MOMENT, since we also know it is Christ who gives eternal life when one believes (John 5:24), we know that those who have received eternal life from Him WILL NEVER PERISH (Jn 10:28).

I also believe that repenting is an on-going issue, but NOT to maintain one's salvation. Rather, to restore fellowship with Him.

Well put.

 

[Cygnus]

Does the OSAS 'side believe in repenting over our natural life time or only at the time of Salvation ?

Is both as an answer allowed?
I believe the act of repentance towards salvation is turning from disbelief to belief.
1 John 3:23 And this is his commandment, that we believe in the name of his Son Jesus Christ and love one another, just as he has commanded us.
John 6:298 Jesus replied, "This is the work of God: to believe in the One He has sent."

As we continue in a christian life repentance has a different nuance. There repenting over our natural life time as you put it ad lines up more with the sanctification process.

 

[billybalke]

That helps a lot. My view is that you are incorrect....as you probably already know. Salvation can't be lost.

Thank you. I've attempted to reach Wip so guess we wait.

 

[billybalke]

You have yet to supply one verse which says one repents into Christ. I do not deny for a moment the necessity of repentance for Jesus said "except you repent ye shall all likewise perish" Lk.13:3. Obey the gospel? Of course! But the question is at WHAT point (if I may use the term) in obeying the gospel is one "in" Christ, a "branch" Jn.15:2 "in" Christ?? All spiritual blessing are "in" Christ, teaches Eph.1:3, but how does one get "into" Christ to enjoy such splendid "blessings"??

God bless, Billy

JLB--would you care to reply to this post? God bless, Billly

 

[Cygnus]

Thank you. I've attempted to reach Wip so guess we wait.

One thing....don't open with 16 pages like this guy did.

 

[JLB]

I'm always happy to explain what passages mean.

No thanks.

I can read what these words plainly say.

• just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.
Galatians 5:19-21


This was stated to people who probably had much less education that you or I, and Paul expressed this in a way these people could understand.

I understand perfectly what is being said, as it couldn't be any clearer.

• just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

I know exactly what Paul means by practicing the works of the flesh, because he described what the works of the flesh are:

Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like;

These Gentiles came from a background and culture that accepted these types of practices as the norm, much like what our society in America has degraded into today.

In obeying the Gospel, we are called to repent from practicing these sinful works.

Going back to these works, if not stopped and repented of, could indeed result in a Christian brother or sister, not inheriting God;s kingdom on the Day of Judgment.


For you to claim that people who do not practice these works, because they have chosen and learned to walk according to the desires of the Spirit, in doing good, rather than walking according to the desires of the flesh, and doing evil, are Pharisee's, who practice a Pharisee religion, seems to violate what the whole of the New Testament teaches us about walking in love, and loving God, by loving our neighbor.


JLB

 

[JLB]

Jesus said those He gives eternal life will never perish in John 10:28. So your conclusion is in direct conflict with what Jesus said.

You would have to actually quote what John 10:28 says, to show us the words that say what you claim they say.


JLB

 

[JLB]

And from that MOMENT, since we also know it is Christ who gives eternal life when one believes (John 5:24), we know that those who have received eternal life from Him WILL NEVER PERISH (Jn 10:28).

You have said that John 5 and John 10 refer to the original 12 disciples and not all believers, now you are making another reference to them.


The condition remains for eternal life which is to believe.

As long as a person believes, then they have eternal life, which is being "in Christ".


JLB

 

[JLB]

I believe (I won't speak for anyone else who claims OSAS) that salvation is obtained the MOMENT one believes in Christ for salvation (Acts 16:31).

And from that MOMENT, since we also know it is Christ who gives eternal life when one believes (John 5:24), we know that those who have received eternal life from Him WILL NEVER PERISH (Jn 10:28).

I also believe that repenting is an on-going issue, but NOT to maintain one's salvation. Rather, to restore fellowship with Him.

No scripture, only opinion.

 

[Chopper]

Chopper, my friend, I'm concerned about this statement, so I'm kindly asking for clarification. What believer escapes the flesh to the point that they can return to sin? To me, that seems to imply that they were at one point free from sin.

I can't help but turn to Romans 7:15-20 and take these verses that Paul had never been saved. I know with certainty that you're not saying that, so I'm asking for more from you. (O the Apostle Paul was saved, without question)

The hope in me is the confidence that He will finish the good work He started in me. If backsliding and sinning indicates that I was never saved, what hope can I have? (To revert back to the practice of sin, I would question the validity of truly born again)

I do believe people can lose their salvation when they come to reject Christ and receive it anew if they return to Him, but rejecting Him is far different from sinning.

Thanks, Chop!

Thank you favored friend Mike for your concern for purity of thought and doctrine. As you probably know from past threads and posts, I'm "old school". I tend to take the narrow road in my reply's to questions. The following Scripture is my position on sin....

1John 3:1 "See how great a love the Father has bestowed on us, that we would be called children of God; and such we are. For this reason the world does not know us, because it did not know Him.
3:2 Beloved, now we are children of God, and it has not appeared as yet what we will be. We know that when He appears, we will be like Him, because we will see Him just as He is.
3:3 And everyone who has this hope fixed on Him purifies himself, just as He is pure.
3:4 Everyone who practices sin also practices lawlessness; and sin is lawlessness.
3:5 You know that He appeared in order to take away sins; and in Him there is no sin.
3:6 No one who abides in Him sins; no one who sins has seen Him or knows Him.
3:7 Little children, make sure no one deceives you; the one who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous; (because of the Seed)
3:8 the one who practices sin is of the devil; for the devil has sinned from the beginning. The Son of God appeared for this purpose, to destroy the works of the devil.
3:9 No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
3:10 By this the children of God and the children of the devil are obvious: anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor the one who does not love his brother."

This is the statement that you have questioned...."If you stop turning from sin, and jump back into it, you weren't saved to begin with."
Also, this is the reason for that statement....

billybalke said: ↑
I believe scripture teaches "if you stop turning from sin---you lose your salvation"
If you stop turning from sin, and jump back into it, you weren't saved to begin with. The parable of the seeds sown is a good example. Three were not biblically saved, only one.

Now we go back to 1 John 3:1 - 10 The critical verse is....3:9 "No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God." So, lets look at this very carefully, especially "His Seed". If I'm not mistaken Mike, you have been taught by some giants of the faith. Somewhere, Pastor Copeland must have taught on the Seed.

When I think of the "Seed" I think of the Virgin Mary. In Luke chapter one it says....
Luke 1:34 "Mary said to the angel, "How can this be, since I am a virgin?"
1:35 The angel answered and said to her, "The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; and for that reason the holy Child shall be called the Son of God." (just look at what that holy "Seed" produced) (the holy sinless Son of God)

Mike, That was a divine "Seed" that was implanted in Mary's womb, and in the same way, a divine Seed is implanted by the same Holy Spirit in every true Child of God. That holy Seed is what keeps a child of God from living in sin any more. Now back to my statement in question. If a person claims to be born from above, jumps back and forth from a Christian walk, and then goes back into sin for a period of time, I don't believe that person was saved to begin with because God's "Seed" prevents that fall into sin....Back sliding is a different system of failure. For many reasons, folk become disillusioned with the Lord Jesus. Unanswered prayer is a big one. In time, if biblically saved, the Hound of Heaven (Holy Spirit) brings them back into the Fold.

The Church of Jesus Christ, as a rule, is not taught on the importance of the Seed of God that is implanted into every true Child of God. If they were, there would be much less flirting with sin.

Does this help to explain what I said?

Love You,
Chopper

 

[Chopper]

I also heard the Jews thought they were "in" because they were related to Abraham.

You are right friend, that was a big boast of theirs.

 

[Chopper]

I agree chopper. They simply did not understand who God is and what He wants.

One thing about it, through their stupidity we see the grace of God to all mankind.

O Nathan, bravo! I still can't believe that the Jews rejected their Messiah. I'm glad, as you have noted, their rejection produced Jesus turning to the Gentiles. Praise His Name, I'm saved, Blood bought, and Spirit filled & Baptized. SINS FORGIVEN!!

 

[Nathan]

O Nathan, bravo! I still can't believe that the Jews rejected their Messiah. I'm glad, as you have noted, their rejection produced Jesus turning to the Gentiles. Praise His Name, I'm saved, Blood bought, and Spirit filled & Baptized. SINS FORGIVEN!!

 

[billybalke]

One thing....don't open with 16 pages like this guy did.

One step at a time.

One thing....don't open with 16 pages like this guy did.

Check the one on one I think we are on

 

[FreeGrace]

I said this:
"Jesus said those He gives eternal life will never perish in John 10:28. So your conclusion is in direct conflict with what Jesus said."

You would have to actually quote what John 10:28 says, to show us the words that say what you claim they say.

JLB

Don't words always "say what they say"?? Yes, of course they do.

John 10:
27 My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me.
28 I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand.

v.27 tells us who the "them" and "they" are in v.28 - His sheep
v.28 tells to whom Jesus gives.

v.28 tells us WHAT Jesus gives.

v.28 tells us the RESULT of what Jesus GIVES to WHOM.

Jesus gives to His sheep. These are believers.

Jesus gives eternal life to believers, who are recipients of eternal life.

Recipients of eternal life will never perish.

This isn't even close to arguable. Jesus spoke in plain language here. No metaphors, no figures of speech. Just straight talk about eternal security.

Now, there it is, all laid out nice and neat.

If the 2 verses don't say what I claim they say, please provide an explanation of what they do say.

 

[FreeGrace]

I said this:
"And from that MOMENT, since we also know it is Christ who gives eternal life when one believes (John 5:24), we know that those who have received eternal life from Him WILL NEVER PERISH (Jn 10:28)."

You have said that John 5 and John 10 refer to the original 12 disciples and not all believers, now you are making another reference to them.

Please notice carefully what I said above. Where did I say that John 5:and 10 refer to the original 12 disciples?

The condition remains for eternal life which is to believe.

Do you agree that the gift of eternal life is given WHEN one believes?

As long as a person believes, then they have eternal life, which is being "in Christ".

Where is this taught in Scripture? This is only an opinion, without ANY Scriptural support, which the TOS requires.

In fact, the phrase "as long as" occurs some 53 times in the KJV. But never in relation to believing for eternal life.

So, where does that idea come from?

 

[FreeGrace]

This is what I actually said:
"I believe (I won't speak for anyone else who claims OSAS) that salvation is obtained the MOMENT one believes in Christ for salvation (Acts 16:31).

And from that MOMENT, since we also know it is Christ who gives eternal life when one believes (John 5:24), we know that those who have received eternal life from Him WILL NEVER PERISH (Jn 10:28).

I also believe that repenting is an on-going issue, but NOT to maintain one's salvation. Rather, to restore fellowship with Him."

No scripture, only opinion.

One is forced to conclude from your post that Acts 16:31, John 5:24 and John 10:28 aren't Scripture in your opinion.

Why is that? But it does help me understand the reason one would believe that salvation can be lost, by not accepting these 3 verses as Scripture.

 

[Nathan]

Salvation can't be lost. It's simply believed in from Christ, or denied by a person.

Eternal life is the same. Those receiving it have it, those not receiving it do not have it.

Salvation and life is Gods alone. The person who tries to make them possessions of humans falls into the same temptation Adam and Eve did.

Genesis 3
4 But the serpent said to the woman, "You will not surely die.
5 For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil."

Somewhere along the line of temptation calling people forget they are dust.

 

[Chopper]

Yep, we're all dirt bags.

 

[JLB]

This is what I actually said:
"I believe (I won't speak for anyone else who claims OSAS) that salvation is obtained the MOMENT one believes in Christ for salvation (Acts 16:31).

And from that MOMENT, since we also know it is Christ who gives eternal life when one believes (John 5:24), we know that those who have received eternal life from Him WILL NEVER PERISH (Jn 10:28).

I also believe that repenting is an on-going issue, but NOT to maintain one's salvation. Rather, to restore fellowship with Him."

One is forced to conclude from your post that Acts 16:31, John 5:24 and John 10:28 aren't Scripture in your opinion.

Why is that? But it does help me understand the reason one would believe that salvation can be lost, by not accepting these 3 verses as Scripture.

Please write out the scripture with it's contents, for all to examine and discuss.



JLB