OSAS winning Christ? OSNAS just hanging on?

[reba]

by your own words above show a verse that says once saved always saved.... .. we both know there is not one..

Here is John 10:28 - I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand.
Would you agree that the "them" that He gives eternal life to are saved people, or unsaved people?

If you agree that they are saved, then what He is saying is that saved people will never perish. From the moment He gives them eternal life.

Now, is there a verse that indicates that eternal life is given, not at the moment of faith in Christ, but sometime after that? I'm not aware of any. In fact, John 5:24 says those who believe HAVE eternal life.

"“Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life."

So we can confidently conclude that He gives the gift of eternal life WHEN one believes. And from that MOMENT of WHEN one believes, He says they shall never perish.

How is that NOT eternal security?

Therefore, WHEN a person believes, and is saved, they shall never perish. All from John 10:28

No where do i read once saved always saved in those verses.. You and others read into the verses what is not there .. Something 'both sides' do..

 

[Chopper]

Because they stop receiving the eternal life that only God has. If you walk away from Christ you leave His life.

1Jo 5:12
Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life.

Honestly Nathan, do you personally know of someone who has turned their back on Christ Jesus and His indwelling Holy Spirit? I don't in the 50 years of serving my Master Jesus Christ. If a true Believer strays from Jesus' Commands, this will happen....

James 5:19 Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him;
5:20 Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.

I have been involved in this procedure of, with the work of the Holy Spirit, the Hound of Heaven, to confront an erring Believer, and had them repent and return to Jesus and His Commands. Have you?

 

[reba]

Honestly Nathan, do you personally know of someone who has turned their back on Christ Jesus and His indwelling Holy Spirit? I don't in the 50 years of serving my Master Jesus Christ. If a true Believer strays from Jesus' Commands, this will happen....

James 5:19 Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him;
5:20 Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.

I have been involved in this procedure of, with the work of the Holy Spirit, the Hound of Heaven, to confront an erring Believer, and had them repent and return to Jesus and His Commands. Have you?

Uncle Mark cursed God on his death bed.

 

[Cygnus]

Actually, people completely overlook the fact that God can only 'have' eternal life. Eternal, by its very definition, means not having a beginning or an end. So a person cannot 'begin' to have eternal life - they can simply partake of that eternal life. We "have" eternal life only because Christ lives in us through faith. Leave the faith, leave eternal life.

Satan fooled Adam and Eve with this. Its best we not get ahead of ourselves and realize we are simply dust - only God is eternal.

You can't leave eternal life and still call it eternal life. You're going to have to come up with a new name for this life that doesn't contain eternal.

 

[markathome]

What about who spend eternity in hell?

 

[Cygnus]

The OSNAS seems to say I can stumble and blemish myself....and in doing so lose my "eternal" life.

Jude 24 Now to Him who is able to keep you from stumbling and to present you unblemished in His glorious presence, with great joy.

 

[FreeGrace]

Eternal does mean eternal. The bible doesn't say the potential for eternal life.

I cannot undertand why that isn't clear to everyone. Having been given eternal life, Jesus says they will never perish. Meaning eternal life is eternal. It cannot die, and the one who has received it cannot perish.

Yet, some continue to disagree with what Jesus promised in John 10:28.

I've asked what Jesus was promising and teaching in that verse, but no explanation has been forthcoming.

Some seem to know what it doesn't teach, but don't seem to know what it teaches. Interesting.

How can one know what is not being taught, if they don't know what is being taught?

Questions, questions, questions. lol

 

[Cygnus]

Romans 8: 37 No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us. 38 For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons,k neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, 39 neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

 

[FreeGrace]

No where do i read once saved always saved in those verses.. You and others read into the verses what is not there .. Something 'both sides' do..

So then, what was Jesus promising to those He gives eternal life to?

 

[markathome]

OSAS is using verses from the future(Prophecy) and OSNAS is using verses in the present to apply to Real People in Real Life.

 

[FreeGrace]

Romans 8: 37 No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us. 38 For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons,k neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, 39 neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

v.38 is very informative. Paul included not only "the present, but the future" in what cannot separate us from the love of Christ.

The future would include anything and everything that may happen to a believer, such as the second soil in Luke 8:13.

Which perfectly aligns with what Jesus said about those He gives eternal life; they shall never perish in John 10:28.

 

[Cygnus]

I cannot undertand why that isn't clear to everyone. Having been given eternal life, Jesus says they will never perish. Meaning eternal life is eternal. It cannot die, and the one who has received it cannot perish.

Yet, some continue to disagree with what Jesus promised in John 10:28.

I've asked what Jesus was promising and teaching in that verse, but no explanation has been forthcoming.

Some seem to know what it doesn't teach, but don't seem to know what it teaches. Interesting.

How can one know what is not being taught, if they don't know what is being taught?

Questions, questions, questions. lol

I would imagine they think you are given this "eternal" life after you die when God goes over His "IF" list and see's if you qualify.

 

[FreeGrace]

OSAS is using verses from the future(Prophecy) and OSNAS is using verses in the present to apply to Real People in Real Life.

This is not true.

John 5:24 speaks of WHEN one HAS, as in POSSESSION OF, eternal life. WHEN one believes: “Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life.

This is present tense believing.

 

[FreeGrace]

I would imagine they think you are given this "eternal" life after you die when God goes over His "IF" list and see's if you qualify.

Well, that may be true. If so, they have totally sidestepped what Jesus said about WHEN one HAS eternal life in John 5:24 - “Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life.

 

[Cygnus]

OSAS is using verses from the future(Prophecy) and OSNAS is using verses in the present to apply to Real People in Real Life.

Do you have an example?

 

[Eugene]

kinda lost me Eugene , do you believe you ,need, should, etc repent ....

Of course; is it to keep me saved?
Lord, I just messed up all day; let’s see, let me count the ways. Oops, it went past the 70 x 7 times, is that alright? How far do you need go before you may think you don’t really love the Lord, and would belief in any way be connected to that?

Yeah, I hear people say they believe in God and try to justify sin, and yet he told a woman in Joh 8:11 . . . go and sin no more. How can that be? If you get lost on this, just leave it.

What do you think about not doing certain things for conscience sake? Is it possible we do things like speeding we know is wrong, and think we’re free from punitive action because we confess our sin? What if we forget to repent of one time we sped, are we going to hell?

Who do you think John was explaining the following scripture to?
1Jn 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
If you be of another mind, what is the significance of 1Jn 1:5 This then is the message which WE (
Who is we?) have heard of him, and declare unto you. . (Who is you?)

Long story short, are you still saved today? How do you know? Is it because you believed on the Lord Jesus and remain in Him because He will never let you go?

 

[Cygnus]

Well, that may be true. If so, they have totally sidestepped what Jesus said about WHEN one HAS eternal life in John 5:24 - “Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life.

There has to be a lot of sidestepping.

 

[Nathan]

Honestly Nathan, do you personally know of someone who has turned their back on Christ Jesus and His indwelling Holy Spirit? I don't in the 50 years of serving my Master Jesus Christ. If a true Believer strays from Jesus' Commands, this will happen....

James 5:19 Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him;
5:20 Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.

I have been involved in this procedure of, with the work of the Holy Spirit, the Hound of Heaven, to confront an erring Believer, and had them repent and return to Jesus and His Commands. Have you?

I am involved in confronting error every single day Chopper - every single day. Do I know anyone personally? I cannot say I do for sure. There is no way to know what a persons heart is.

The verse you posted is exactly why I do what I do. I know that as the time gets shorter and shorter, more and more people will fall away - it is prophesied to happen, and I believe God did not tell us just so we would sit back and watch it happen.

 

[Nathan]

You can't leave eternal life and still call it eternal life. You're going to have to come up with a new name for this life that doesn't contain eternal.

Yes, you can leave it and it is still called eternal because God is eternal. Your choice does not make it any less eternal.

By the very definition of the word - eternal - the life has no beginning and no end. This is God - not man. The eternal life dwells in us and gives us life. If the eternal life is not in us, we have no life.

1Jo 5:12
Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life.

If you leave you no longer have life. Don't fall for the lie of satan that says you can be like God. Only God is eternal, you are dust.

 

[Chopper]

Hi folks Eternal security? It all depends on whether or not Jesus commits Himself to the person who believes in Him. Text? John Chapter two....

John 2:23 Now when he was in Jerusalem at the passover, in the feast day, many believed in his name, when they saw the miracles which he did.
2:24 But Jesus did not commit himself unto them, because he knew all men,
2:25 And needed not that any should testify of man: for he knew what was in man.

Why weren't these "believers" biblically saved? Because they "saw the miracles Jesus did". They desired a miracle, not Jesus.

Also be careful in your understanding of God's "Seed"....1John 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

Anyone who is "born of God" with His Seed REMAINING in him cannot loose what Almighty God has accomplished. Remember, there is no failure with Elohim, failure comes only in man, not God (Trinity, Elohim).