OSAS winning Christ? OSNAS just hanging on?

[Cygnus]

Where is salvation located? If you leave salvation how do you still have it?

You can't leave salvation.
You don't even belong to yourself. You belong to Jesus. A price was paid for to obtain you. You just don't up and leave salvation.

 

[Cygnus]

That's an argument that has no bearing on the topic. You have life right now right? If you turn from that life, kill yourself, do you still have life?

The location of salvation is in God alone, through Christ alone. If you leave you leave salvation.

If I wer to die today my father would still be my father. Either that or biology is wrong.

 

[Nathan]

OK, so now you ripped that verse out of context.

Jde 1:3-7
Beloved, although I was very eager to write to you about our common salvation, I found it necessary to write appealing to you to contend for the faith that was once for all delivered to the saints. For certain people have crept in unnoticed who long ago were designated for this condemnation, ungodly people, who pervert the grace of our God into sensuality and deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ.

Now I want to remind you, although you once fully knew it, that Jesus, who saved a people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed those who did not believe. And the angels who did not stay within their own position of authority, but left their proper dwelling, he has kept in eternal chains under gloomy darkness until the judgment of the great day—just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding cities, which likewise indulged in sexual immorality and pursued unnatural desire, serve as an example by undergoing a punishment of eternal fire.

Better? Angels also rebelled against God, they wont be saved either.

There are 'certain' people who are around that deny Jesus Christ. I am only countering those people.

 

[Nathan]

You can't leave salvation.
You don't even belong to yourself. You belong to Jesus. A price was paid for to obtain you. You just don't up and leave salvation.

Is God salvation? Was the writer of Hebrews mistaken that people could leave the living God?

You do not belong to yourself, which is precisely why you should not live for yourself and think God 'owes' you something based on what you said or did at one time in your life.

No, you don't just up and leave salvation - God will not let you leave without a lot of discipline, but He does not force you to stay. Don't be hardened by that discipline which will then lead you away.

 

[Nathan]

If I wer to die today my father would still be my father. Either that or biology is wrong.

Mat 3:9
And do not presume to say to yourselves, ‘We have Abraham as our father,' for I tell you, God is able from these stones to raise up children for Abraham.

Heb 3:5
Now Moses was faithful in all God’s house as a servant, to testify to the things that were to be spoken later, but Christ is faithful over God’s house as a son. And we are his house if indeed we hold fast our confidence and our boasting in our hope

Don't be too prideful. We have clear examples of how true children of God are, and we have clear examples of who those are who think they are children of God. A child of God has faith in God. If you have no faith, you are not a child of God.

 

[Cygnus]

Jde 1:3-7
Beloved, although I was very eager to write to you about our common salvation, I found it necessary to write appealing to you to contend for the faith that was once for all delivered to the saints. For certain people have crept in unnoticed who long ago were designated for this condemnation, ungodly people, who pervert the grace of our God into sensuality and deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ.

Now I want to remind you, although you once fully knew it, that Jesus, who saved a people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed those who did not believe. And the angels who did not stay within their own position of authority, but left their proper dwelling, he has kept in eternal chains under gloomy darkness until the judgment of the great day—just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding cities, which likewise indulged in sexual immorality and pursued unnatural desire, serve as an example by undergoing a punishment of eternal fire.

Better? Angels also rebelled against God, they wont be saved either.

There are 'certain' people who are around that deny Jesus Christ. I am only countering those people.

As I said earlier...you are ripping your text out of context. This verse isn't about losing your salvation.

 

[Cygnus]

Is God salvation? Was the writer of Hebrews mistaken that people could leave the living God?

You do not belong to yourself, which is precisely why you should not live for yourself and think God 'owes' you something based on what you said or did at one time in your life.

No, you don't just up and leave salvation - God will not let you leave without a lot of discipline, but He does not force you to stay. Don't be hardened by that discipline which will then lead you away.

You can't just up and leave salvation if you already have it.

What I do ask is that you apply proper scripture when presenting your case.

 

[markathome]

This is not true.

John 5:24 speaks of WHEN one HAS, as in POSSESSION OF, eternal life. WHEN one believes: “Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life.

This is present tense believing.

Maybe this will help?

John 5:24
Verily, verily, I say unto you, (The Truth that Jesus said unto whom?)
He that heareth my word, (The Words in Red in the New Testament)
and believeth on him that sent me, (Belief on Theos/God that sent Jesus)
hath everlasting life, (Unless you're a JW's who believe that humans don't have eternal life?)
and shall not come into condemnation; (Judgement Day because we have the Super Lawyer aka Jesus!)
but is passed from death (again the JW concept)
unto life.(Death to Life to Eternal Life which everybody has already rather they reside in Hell or Heaven unless we pushing the JW's concept?)

The concept of Eternal Life is important to those who don't believe in a life after death.
When you die you just are dead, asleep, etc & will remain that way for all eternity.
So speaking to those who are that way you would use that concept in John 5:24 to preach to them. Baby Steps!

God Bless

 

[Cygnus]

If you have no faith, you are not a child of God.

I don't disagree. Of course this message is for the unsaved. Once you become a child of God, nothing can snatch you away or seperate you from His love....not even yourself.

Once again, if you're a true believer and fall away....deception had a major role in your turning from God. Fortunately, you remain saved.

 

[WIP]

How can one stop receiving eternal life? As pointed out numerous times....eternal means eternal.
If you're givin eternal life....you have that life eternally.

It would seem then that the argument is not about being able to lose salvation but rather when does one receive t

Nathan, now you're playing with words.
If you're saved...you will always be saved. That's what the bible teaches and that's what a lot of peopl here have been telling you.

There is not a single verse that say we can freely walk away from God and lose our salvation.

On this note, when is one saved?

 

[Cygnus]

On this note, when is one saved?

In a linear fashion....when one believes.

 

[markathome]

On this note, when is one saved?

(unbelieve/not saved/NS)
to
(believe/saved/OSNAS)
to
(born again with Holy Spirit into the Family/OSAS)

 

[FreeGrace]

Yes, you can leave it and it is still called eternal because God is eternal. Your choice does not make it any less eternal.

What I haven't seen yet is any verse that says we have the choice to leave salvation.

If you leave you no longer have life. Don't fall for the lie of satan that says you can be like God. Only God is eternal, you are dust.

Which text says we can leave eternal life? Without any text, it's just an opinion. Please support claims with Scripture.

 

[FreeGrace]

Do you think Christ died for all the sins of mankind? If so, then why would God then require them to be punished for them?

To the first question, yes, absolutely He did. The phrase "once for all" occurs about 5 times in Hebrews in regard to His sacrifice.

Now, do you believe that He died for all sins?

To the second, God doesn't require anyone to be punished for their sins. Rev 20:11-15 shows that man is cast into the lake of fire for not having their name in the book of life. Why would their name not be in the book of life? Because they never received the gift of eternal life is why not. Jesus said He gives eternal life to His sheep (John 10:28), which by definition are those who have believed (John 5:24).

So, after this life, there is eternity. And only 2 places of residence:
1. with God because we have God's life, eternal life, or
2. apart from God in the lake of fire, because that's the only other place of existence in eternity.

Everyone will exist in eternity, for eternity. Those with God have eternal life, and those apart from God have eternal death, also called the second death in Revelation.

NOTHING will separate us from the love of God. God loves the WHOLE WORLD.

The first sentence doesn't applly to unbelievers. The second sentence applies to everyone.

[QOUTE]We absolutely cannot be snatched, taken, forced, or any other such action by another from the hands of God. This says nothing of us leaving on our own free will because we choose sin over Christ.[/QUOTE]
Actually, the Bible says nothing about anyone being able to "leave (salvation) on our own free will".

Please support your opinion with Scripture that says what is being claimed.

Heb 3:12
Take care, brothers, lest there be in any of you an evil, unbelieving heart, leading you to fall away from the living God.

OK, now show conclusively that "fall away" literally means to leave one's salvation.

Instead, it refers to leaving the faith, not leaving salvationn.

This is so because Jesus said that those He gives eternal life will never perish. Jn 10:28

 

[FreeGrace]

I'm not playing with words.

If you are in Christ you will be saved. That is what the Bible teaches.

However, which text or texts teaches that one can can unseal themselves? Or which text(s) teaches that one can leave union with Christ, which means lose the Holy Spirit? If there are any, they would contradict Eph 1:13,14.

 

[FreeGrace]

Here is something simple.

If I am sitting at a table with a banquet of food on it, then I "turn away" from it, withdrawing myself from it - I no longer have the food in front of me to eat. I have left the place where there is food.

God alone has salvation, and He freely gives it to those who believe. If we turn from God, we turn from what He gives.

What is missed is the fact that salvation has already been given to those who believe. it's already ours. AND...Jesus said He gives eternal life to believers, saved people. And the result is: they will never perish. Jn 10:28

Can't get around what Jesus said. The result of RECEIVING eternal life is to never perish.

No verse contradicts this FACT that Jesus said.

 

[FreeGrace]

Where does the bible say....if we turn from God we forfeit our salvation?

I have read where the bible doesn't recommend turning from God...but have never seen where it flat out says we lose our salvation if we do.

The Bible provides very good reasons for not turning from God; facing His discipline, which Heb 12:11 says is painful. And Paul listed the progression of HOW God disciplines: weakness, sickness and physical death, in 1 Cor 11:30.

 

[FreeGrace]

I can turn away from my father....but my father will always be my father. I may not act as if my dad is my dad...but despite my feelings my dad will always be my dad.

Excellent point! We see the same principle in the prodigal son. The son remained the son, even when the son was willing to be demoted to servant, and the father remained the father.

 

[FreeGrace]

Where is salvation located? If you leave salvation how do you still have it?

Salvation isn't in a "location", as insinuated. And please, please provide evidence from Scripture that one can leave salvation, since this idea continues to be an opinion unless evidence is provided.

 

[FreeGrace]

That's an argument that has no bearing on the topic. You have life right now right? If you turn from that life, kill yourself, do you still have life?

Poor example. One cannot kill ETERNAL life. There's the rub.

The location of salvation is in God alone, through Christ alone. If you leave you leave salvation.

Please provide evidence from Scripture that one who has been marked IN HIM with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit who is a guarantee of our inheritance for the day of salvation (Eph 1:13,14) can become unsealed, which is what is being insinuated.