Cygnus
Member
I don't quite understand how that answered my post.
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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
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OSAS winning Christ? OSNAS just hanging on?
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I don't quite understand how that answered my post.
Believe, is how we come to be in Christ.
Believe carries the meaning of trust, commit and obey.
If you believe the Gospel, then you obey the Gospel command to repent, which means turn to God.
This is how we are granted the remission of sins.
- When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto [into] life. Acts 11:18 KJV
- When they heard these things they became silent; and they glorified God, saying, “Then God has also granted to the Gentiles repentance to life.” Acts 11:18 NKJV
unto - Strong's G1519 - eis
into, unto, to, towards, for, among
εἰς eis, ice; a primary preposition; to or into (indicating the point reached or entered), of place, time, or (figuratively) purpose (result, etc.); also in adverbial phrases:—(abundant-)ly, against, among, as, at, (back-)ward, before, by, concerning, + continual, + far more exceeding, for (intent, purpose), fore, + forth, in (among, at, unto, -so much that, -to), to the intent that, + of one mind, + never, of, (up-)on, + perish, + set at one again, (so) that, therefore(-unto), throughout, til, to (be, the end, -ward), (here-)until(-to), …ward, (where-)fore, with.
JLB
billybalke
Member
I evidently do not understand.
No scripture says that if we are in Christ, we have eternal life permanently.
That is what is being taught here in John 15. Jesus is warning His disciples that they must continue to remain in Him.
If a branch is thrown into the fire and burned, does it still have the life in it, it once had when joined to the vine? No
The life is conditional upon being "in" Christ", which is where eternal life.
There is no eternal life "outside" of Christ
If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. John 15:6
- If anyone does not abide in Me
"Anyone" is a reference to people who are in Christ.
"he" is a reference to a person in Christ.
"They" is a reference to people who are in Christ.
People who are in Christ, who do not remain in Christ, will be gathered up and thrown into the fire and burned.
JLB
It is bad news.
Those who don't obey the Gospel command "repent", which means turn to God, are those who return to serving their old "lord" Satan, from which they "turned" when they first believed, returning to their pollutions from which they were cleansed, they have turned from the truth and become as sinners, needing someone to turn them back, or their soul will be lost.
20 For if, after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the latter end is worse for them than the beginning. 21 For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered to them. 22 But it has happened to them according to the true proverb: “A dog returns to his own vomit,” and, “a sow, having washed, to her wallowing in the mire.” 2 Peter 2:20-22
and again
19 Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back, 20 let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins. James 5:19-20
JLB
billybalke
Member
Cygnus
Member
Shrug, oh well.
billybalke
Member
Hi JLB, I think something may be wrong with my computer. However, there is a vast difference between the words "into" and "unto" In Acts ll:18 the JKV reads "repentance unto life", not repentance into life. The NKJV reads "repentance to life", "to" is not "into". I may go to your house without going into your house.
billybalke
Member
billybalke
Member
Perhaps you would like to restate your comment that you hardly could not see how my post answered your post. I'll gladly try again.
So what? Anyone who reads v.27 and v.28 can see that the "them" and "they" in v.28 refer to "His sheep" in v.27. There's nothing to hide.
But the point remains; those to whom Jesus gives eternal life WILL NEVER PERISH. That' exactly what He said. No need to translate, or explain.
Very simply, recipients of eternal life will never perish. So GUARANTEES Jesus.
The condition for receiving eternal life is being His sheep. Period.
Yep. That's what I've been saying. Recipients of eternal life (His sheep) will never perish.
Yep. Tht's whta I've been saying. Recipients of eternal life (His sheep) will never perish.
Where did Jesus say any of this?
Here's the problem with trying to force following Jesus as a condition for never perishing. While v.27 says His sheep hear Him and follow Him, every sheep herder knows that since sheep are among the most stupid of animals, they don't always hear and follow.
In fact, the Bible even makes the point of sheep getting lost. How does a sheep get lost? By failing to hear the shepherd and failing to follow him.
Yet, Jesus uses "My sheep" as a metaphor for believers and then says what must have been most shocking to the agricultural Jews of His day. His sheep will never perish. Because He gives them eternal life. Any sheep herder would know that though a shepherd's sheep recognize his voice, they STILL fail to hear and follow and DO get lost and need to be recovered. Not "lost and saved" over and over.
The point is that everyone of Jesus' time knew that sheep, being stupid, don't always hear and follow. They get in trouble and need rescuing.
Yet, Jesus promises that His sheep will never perish.
So, when a person becomes one of His sheep, from THAT MOMENT on, they will never perish.
That is eternal security.
And Paul wrote that "having believed", one is sealed IN HIM with the Holy Spirit, who is a deposit that GUARANTEES OUR INHERITANCE for the day of redemption.
How is that not eternal security?
How can anyone think contrary to what Paul wrote, that those so sealed IN HIM, which is a guarantee for their inheritance, can become essentially un-sealed and LOSE "their inheritance", which has been GUARANTEED by God's Word????
It doesn't say it that specific way. But it does say it clearly.
Eph 1:13,14
13 And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit,
14 who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession—to the praise of his glory.
So, we see here that the Holy Spirit who seals the one "having believed", is a DEPOSIT GUARANTEEING what? Our inheritance.
When? Until the redemption of God's possession.
So, since we are "marked IN HIM with the Holy Spirit, that is what marks us as God's possession.
Please explain what a GUARANTEED DEPOSIT means, and then explain what "our inheritance" means.
When that is done, you'll see eternal security clearly.
For salvation? No. For fruit production.
John 15:2,5
2He cuts off every branch in me that bears no fruit, while every branch that does bear fruit he prunes so that it will be even more fruitful.
5 “I am the vine; you are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing.
Guaranteed to those who believe, and are in Christ, and remain in Christ.
Disconnected from Christ, there is no promise of eternal life.
“Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life. John 5:24
The condition is believe.
If you have a scripture that teaches us those who do not believe, who are not in Christ, have eternal life, then please present it for us to examine.
JLB
Read what the actual scripture says:
If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. John 15:6
Those who are in Christ, but do not remain in Christ, are cast into the fire and burned.
Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit He prunes, that it may bear more fruit.
John 15:2
The branch in Him, that does not produce fruit, is removed from Him.
Eternal life is only found in Christ Jesus.
For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. Romans 6:23
JLB
Cygnus
Member
I was asking a question about repentance...presented a few options..asked for others...and you replied with hearing the gospel or reading it.
Sorry, I mssed your point.
billybalke
Member
Hi Cygnus
Sorry I misunderstood your post # 93. I believe the answer is in your words that repentance is "turning from sin throughout one's lifetime. Jesus gave the perfect definition of repentance in Matt.21:28-31. Paul also said that "godly sorrow leads to repentance". It is a change of mind which leads to a change of life.
Sorry I misunderstood your post # 93. I believe the answer is in your words that repentance is "turning from sin throughout one's lifetime. Jesus gave the perfect definition of repentance in Matt.21:28-31. Paul also said that "godly sorrow leads to repentance". It is a change of mind which leads to a change of life.
Cygnus
Member
I see that as a definition. What if one stops from turning from sin? This forum seem to be producing two views. One, if you stop turning from sin...disbelieving in Jesus...you lose your salvation. The other, once saved always saved.