OSAS winning Christ? OSNAS just hanging on?

[FreeGrace]

1 John 1:9 "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness."

The purpose of confession is to "forgive us our sins" and to "cleanse us from all unrighteousness" which is salvation.

Please read ALL of 1 John 1. And count the number of times John used the word "fellowship". That is the subject of that chapter; not salvation.

 

[for_his_glory]

Matt 10 and 24 aren't about enduring for eternal soul salvation. Note the context around the verses. It's about the Great 7 year Tribulation.

But how about this for insight into the issue of eternal security:
John 5:24 - “Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life.

So, we know that those who have heard and believe HAVE eternal life. This means they have it the MOMENT when they first believed.

Now, John 10:28 - I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand.

Now we know how people HAVE eternal life. Jesus gives it to them.

And Jesus said, as a result of giving them eternal life, they SHALL NEVER PERISH.

Crystal clear. Jesus taught eternal security.

Our eternal security is Christ Jesus as He delivered us from our sin and only gave the promised of our welfare as being saved when we physically die or until we are caught up to meet Him in the air. Notice what is says in Matthew 10:22; 24:13; Rev 2:10 about enduring. It's not God, but we who need to endure (keep faith in Christ) during all the trials and tribulations we face, not just the great tribulation of Gods wrath in the end of days for God will keep us from His wrath plus Satan's wrath he tries to put upon us by others he uses to try and separate us from God on a daily basis.

 

[Cygnus]

Also, if confession of sin is for salvation, then Jesus Christ died for nothing. Zero.

I wouldn't take it that far. Confession of sins for the saved...those who are in Christ, born again....the confession for sin isn't about salvation but rather for fellowship and our own personal edification.

1 John 1:9 is quite clear; the whole issue of ch 1 is about fellowship. A believer needs to confess their sins for fellowship AND cleansing from their sin.

The sin I will commit next week...has already been forgiven and imputed to Christ at the cross.

 

[Cygnus]

Repentance means to make a change, to turn from doing unrighteousness to doing righteousness. Revelation 2:5


For the CHristian, an impenitent Christian will not be forgiven, not have all sins cleansed away by the blood of Christ (1 John 1:7), and die lost in his sins.

Repentance has several nuances associated with it.

For the CHristian, an impenitent Christian will not be forgiven

If your a Christian...by definition your forgiven.

 

[Cygnus]

1 John 1:9 "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness."

The purpose of confession is to "forgive us our sins" and to "cleanse us from all unrighteousness" which is salvation. Christ died and shed His blood that sins may be cleansed away and that cleansing from unrighteousness takes place when one confesses. Forgiveness, cleansing of sins, salvation being conditional (verse begins with the conditional word "IF") upon confession. No cheap grace where one can be impenitent of his sins, not confess them but forgiven and cleansed anyway unconditionally.

Seabass, for your sake I sure hope you have no unconfessed sin....or your eternal destiny is in serious jeopardy.

 

[Nathan]

Please read ALL of 1 John 1. And count the number of times John used the word "fellowship". That is the subject of that chapter; not salvation.

1Jo 1:1-10
That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we looked upon and have touched with our hands, concerning the word of life—the life was made manifest, and we have seen it, and testify to it and proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and was made manifest to us—that which we have seen and heard we proclaim also to you, so that you too may have fellowship with us; and indeed our fellowship is with the Father and with his Son Jesus Christ. And we are writing these things so that our joy may be complete.

This is the message we have heard from him and proclaim to you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all. If we say we have fellowship with him while we walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth. But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus his Son cleanses us from all sin. If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

"Fellowship" - κοινωνία koinōnía, koy-nohn-ee'-ah; from G2844; partnership, i.e. (literally) participation, or (social) intercourse, or (pecuniary) benefaction:—(to) communicate(-ation), communion, (contri-)distribution, fellowship.

Mat 12:30-32
Whoever is not with me is against me, and whoever does not gather with me scatters. Therefore I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven people, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. And whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.

Fellowship is being with Jesus. If you are not with Jesus you are against Him. You cannot be against Jesus and have His Salvation or eternal life.

Jer 5:21-23
“Hear this, O foolish and senseless people,
who have eyes, but see not,
who have ears, but hear not.
Do you not fear me? declares the LORD.
Do you not tremble before me?
I placed the sand as the boundary for the sea,
a perpetual barrier that it cannot pass;
though the waves toss, they cannot prevail;
though they roar, they cannot pass over it.
But this people has a stubborn and rebellious heart;
they have turned aside and gone away.

 

[FreeGrace]

Our eternal security is Christ Jesus as He delivered us from our sin and only gave the promised of our welfare as being saved when we physically die or until we are caught up to meet Him in the air. Notice what is says in Matthew 10:22; 24:13; Rev 2:10 about enduring. It's not God, but we who need to endure (keep faith in Christ) during all the trials and tribulations we face, not just the great tribulation of Gods wrath in the end of days for God will keep us from His wrath plus Satan's wrath he tries to put upon us by others he uses to try and separate us from God on a daily basis.

Again, the context for "enduring to the end to be saved" IS the Great Tribulation.

'Nuff said.

 

[Cygnus]

Fellowship is being with Jesus. If you are not with Jesus you are against Him. You cannot be against Jesus and have His Salvation or eternal life.

Every time you sin you are against Jesus.

You should rethink your theology.

 

[Seabass]

Please read ALL of 1 John 1. And count the number of times John used the word "fellowship". That is the subject of that chapter; not salvation.

One does not have fellowship with God or other Christians if one does not walk in the light and confess sins. And the purpose John gives for walking in the light is so all sins can be cleansed away by the blood of Christ (which is salvation) and one confesses to have sins forgiven and to be cleansed (which is salvation). John ties fellowship to salvation (cleansing away and forgiveness of sins).

John begins a few verses here with the conditional word "IF" making salvation (cleansing and forgiveness of sins) conditional upon the Christian walking in the light and confessing. Will we now have to add conditional clauses to the list of things OSASers ignore?

 

[Nathan]

Every time you sin you are against Jesus.

You should rethink your theology.

That is not true. My theology is based on Scripture, what is your statement based on? Where do we learn that every time we sin we are against Jesus?

1Jo 2:2
He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world.

Heb 7:25
Consequently, he is able to save to the uttermost those who draw near to God through him, since he always lives to make intercession for them.

 

[Seabass]

Repentance has several nuances associated with it.



If your a Christian...by definition your forgiven.

Not when it comes to salvation, men must conditionally repent of sins if they want forgiveness from God. No verse says God forgives the impenitent.

 

[Seabass]

None of us are perfect, but are being perfected daily and will fall short at times and while in our sin God is not going to hear us until we repent of it and reestablish our fellowship with Him again. This is what Adam had to do is reestablish that fellowship. We are still in this carnal body that is a hostile enemy of God and this is why we crucify this flesh daily for when we are in the flesh we are not pleasing God.

John 9:31 Now we know that God heareth not sinners: but if any man be a worshipper of God, and doeth his will, him he heareth.

Romans 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. 8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

You posted "and will fall short at times and while in our sin God is not going to hear us until we repent of it and reestablish our fellowship with Him again." This is why salvation is CONDITIONAL upon repentance and NOT UNCONDITIONAL.
OSAS falsely claims the Christian can remain impenitent of his sins yet still unconditionally be saved anyway. Like some here on this forum saying the Christian can cast away his faith yet still be saved. If one can be saved faithless, then repentance means nothing.

 

[Cygnus]

That is not true. My theology is based on Scripture, what is your statement based on? Where do we learn that every time we sin we are against Jesus?

To be honest, I can't believe you're actually saying sinning isn't an act against God.

 

[for_his_glory]

You posted "and will fall short at times and while in our sin God is not going to hear us until we repent of it and reestablish our fellowship with Him again." This is why salvation is CONDITIONAL upon repentance and NOT UNCONDITIONAL.
OSAS falsely claims the Christian can remain impenitent of his sins yet still unconditionally be saved anyway. Like some here on this forum saying the Christian can cast away his faith yet still be saved. If one can be saved faithless, then repentance means nothing.

I agree as Gods love is unconditional as all can come to Him, but keeping salvation comes with an impenitent heart that we remain in fellowship with Him.

 

[billybalke]

One does not have fellowship with God or other Christians if one does not walk in the light and confess sins. And the purpose John gives for walking in the light is so all sins can be cleansed away by the blood of Christ (which is salvation) and one confesses to have sins forgiven and to be cleansed (which is salvation). John ties fellowship to salvation (cleansing away and forgiveness of sins).

John begins a few verses here with the conditional word "IF" making salvation (cleansing and forgiveness of sins) conditional upon the Christian walking in the light and confessing. Will we now have to add conditional clauses to the list of things OSASers ignore?

Amen!

 

[for_his_glory]

That is not true. My theology is based on Scripture, what is your statement based on? Where do we learn that every time we sin we are against Jesus?

1Jo 2:2
He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world.

Heb 7:25
Consequently, he is able to save to the uttermost those who draw near to God through him, since he always lives to make intercession for them.

Nathan, when we willingly sin who are we serving, God or Satan!

Romans 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace. 15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid. 16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness? 17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. 18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

Hebrews 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, 27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

Zephaniah 1:18 Neither their silver nor their gold shall be able to deliver them in the day of the LORD'S wrath; but the whole land shall be devoured by the fire of his jealousy: for he shall make even a speedy riddance of all them that dwell in the land.

 

[Nathan]

To be honest, I can't believe you're actually saying sinning isn't an act against God.

Do you know what sin is? It is 'missing the mark'.

There are intentional and unintentional sins. Can a person in Christ intentionally continue to sin?

You still did not answer my question - where do you find that when we sin we are against Jesus?

 

[Nathan]

Nathan, when we willingly sin who are we serving, God or Satan!

Romans 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace. 15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid. 16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness? 17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. 18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

Hebrews 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, 27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

Zephaniah 1:18 Neither their silver nor their gold shall be able to deliver them in the day of the LORD'S wrath; but the whole land shall be devoured by the fire of his jealousy: for he shall make even a speedy riddance of all them that dwell in the land.

Can someone serve two masters at one time?

There is a difference between being a slave of something and doing something.

Has someone ever asked you to do something and then you did it? Were you their slave?

 

[Cygnus]

There are intentional and unintentional sins. Can a person in Christ intentionally continue to sin?

That answer is an overwhelming yes. It's not recommended that we sin against Jesus.

You still did not answer my question - where do you find that when we sin we are against Jesus?

I did. When we sin we sin against God....are you saying Jesus isn't God?

 

[Nathan]

That answer is an overwhelming yes. It's not recommended that we sin against Jesus.


I did. When we sin we sin against God....are you saying Jesus isn't God?

I am not sure if you have ever read this, but it may help you understand things better.

1Jo 3:9
No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God’s seed abides in him, and he cannot keep on sinning because he has been born of God.