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Our Father Angry

If God placed all of creation under a Curse that results in being held captive by the Devil to do his will, why would the Lord be angry with us for doing what our Spiritual Father has compelled us to do?

Further:

Romans 11:7-8 NLT - "So this is the situation: Most of the people of Israel have not found the favor of God they are looking for so earnestly. A few have--the ones God has chosen--but the hearts of the rest were hardened. As the Scriptures say, "God has put them into a deep sleep. To this day he has shut their eyes so they do not see, and closed their ears so they do not hear."

I am assuming that from other forums, you have seen me present this Scripture over and over again. Therefore, I am sure that you're aware of verses 7 and 8 above. I'm just curious of how you reconcile this massive issue. :)
 
2nd Timothy Group said:
If God placed all of creation under a Curse that results in being held captive by the Devil to do his will, why would the Lord be angry with us for doing what our Spiritual Father has compelled us to do?

Further:

Romans 11:7-8 NLT - "So this is the situation: Most of the people of Israel have not found the favor of God they are looking for so earnestly. A few have--the ones God has chosen--but the hearts of the rest were hardened. As the Scriptures say, "God has put them into a deep sleep. To this day he has shut their eyes so they do not see, and closed their ears so they do not hear."

I am assuming that from other forums, you have seen me present this Scripture over and over again. Therefore, I am sure that you're aware of verses 7 and 8 above. I'm just curious of how you reconcile this massive issue. :)
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If you continue with Romans 11: 9-24, especially vs 11 God provokes Israel to jealousy as He breaks many off the branches and starts graphing in the Gentiles who believe by faith in Christ.
 
Jesus was angry many times with people like when he cleared the Temple of the moneychangers and animal sellers as they disregarded God's holiness and worship, Matthew 21:12,13, Mark 11:15-18; John 2:13-22.

Mark 3:1-5 Jesus was angry at the Pharisees for their stubborn hearts in the synagogue of Capernaum where he healed a man on the Sabbath.

Ephesians 4:26 Be ye angry, and sin not: let not the sun go down upon your wrath:

We are instructed to not avoid anger, but to deal with our anger in a timely manner so that we do not sin against God. Anytime Jesus was angry he always gave explanation why in showing others the way of God.

Our anger towards others has to have proper motivation at not being angry at the person as we keep control of ourself, but at the sinful behavior and true injustice they cause. Anger has to have proper supplement, Mark 3:5, as by grief over those who lack faith as we need to show love by praying for them and forgiving their actions for they know not what they do.
 
2nd Timothy Group said:
If God placed all of creation under a Curse that results in being held captive by the Devil to do his will, why would the Lord be angry with us for doing what our Spiritual Father has compelled us to do?
Click to expand...
God hasn't placed all mankind under a curse. Only those who use the law to condemn others are under a curse,

condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned Lk.6:37

But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith. Gal.3:11

We live by, meaning conduct ourselves, by faith in what Jesus taught, which is that that God does not want to destroy sinners, but will forgive the repentant.
Our sweet Savior demonstrated this by not killing those who attacked him.
2nd Timothy Group said:
Further:

Romans 11:7-8 NLT - "So this is the situation: Most of the people of Israel have not found the favor of God they are looking for so earnestly. A few have--the ones God has chosen--but the hearts of the rest were hardened. As the Scriptures say, "God has put them into a deep sleep. To this day he has shut their eyes so they do not see, and closed their ears so they do not hear."

I am assuming that from other forums, you have seen me present this Scripture over and over again. Therefore, I am sure that you're aware of verses 7 and 8 above. I'm just curious of how you reconcile this massive issue. :)
Click to expand...
It's simple. "God has chosen" those who live by faith. This is why Rom.10:6-8
quotes Deu.30.11-14 as a veiled reference to Jesus.
It doesn't take long want the mercy of God, when the law is pointed at self. The mercy of God is that he didn't, even from the cross, point the law at those who sinned against him.
 
journeyman said:
God hasn't placed all mankind under a curse. Only those who use the law to condemn others are under a curse
Click to expand...

Well, knowing this, I don't know of what else I can tell you. Romans chapter 5 is pretty clear that "all men" are under this Curse. After all, if we're not under at least a two-part Curse, then what do we need a Redeemer for?

Romans chapter five is critical for understanding the Gospel.

Romans 5:12, 18 NKJV - "Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned-- .".. 18 "Therefore, as through one man's offense judgment came to all men, resulting in condemnation, even so through one Man's righteous act the free gift came to all men, resulting in justification of life."

If we don't agree on the Curse being our problem, we probably won't agree on much of anything.

Best of luck,

David
 
journeyman said:
Our Fathers' anger is shown in the OT. The NT makes it clear why, as any father, whose son was brutally mistreated, would understand our Fathers' anger.
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He wasn’t angry at personal loss. Jesus was angry too, by the way. They are angry at injustice. He cares how we treat each other, not just how we treat Jesus.
 
journeyman said:
God hasn't placed all mankind under a curse. Only those who use the law to condemn others are under a curse,

condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned Lk.6:37

But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith. Gal.3:11

We live by, meaning conduct ourselves, by faith in what Jesus taught, which is that that God does not want to destroy sinners, but will forgive the repentant.
Our sweet Savior demonstrated this by not killing those who attacked him.

It's simple. "God has chosen" those who live by faith. This is why Rom.10:6-8
quotes Deu.30.11-14 as a veiled reference to Jesus.
It doesn't take long want the mercy of God, when the law is pointed at self. The mercy of God is that he didn't, even from the cross, point the law at those who sinned against him.
Click to expand...
Deuteronomy has a long list of curses that happen to people depending upon their choices, curses and blessings. Jesus continued this line in the Beatitudes where blessings are listed depending solely upon our behaviour. It’s also called reaping what you sow.
 
2nd Timothy Group said:
Well, knowing this, I don't know of what else I can tell you. Romans chapter 5 is pretty clear that "all men" are under this Curse. After all, if we're not under at least a two-part Curse, then what do we need a Redeemer for?

Romans chapter five is critical for understanding the Gospel.

Romans 5:12, 18 NKJV - "Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned-- .".. 18 "Therefore, as through one man's offense judgment came to all men, resulting in condemnation, even so through one Man's righteous act the free gift came to all men, resulting in justification of life."

If we don't agree on the Curse being our problem, we probably won't agree on much of anything.

Best of luck,

David
Click to expand...
By "all men" being under a curse, Paul means people who have consciousness of sin, whether Jews by direct commandment, or gentiles by conscience. He doesn't mean everyone is born automatically cursed,

Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, vs.14 (That is, by direct command.)

For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law. vs.13 (It's not regarded as an offence against God, even though it is.),

For when the Gentiles, which have not the law,do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: Rom.2:14
 
journeyman said:
Our Fathers' anger is shown in the OT.
Click to expand...
As is also his great love for those who obey him.
God character is not that of vengeful anger, but that of a Holy, Righteous, Just and Merciful God.
Yes God hates sin, yes he will judge all who have not repented, but in All he does he is Just.
 
Dorothy Mae said:
He wasn’t angry at personal loss. Jesus was angry too, by the way. They are angry at injustice. He cares how we treat each other, not just how we treat Jesus.
Click to expand...
Yes, but since he made all,

The one who oppresses the poor insults his Creator, but whoever shows favor to the needy honors him. Pro.14:31

Injustice against what belongs to God is injustice against God.
 
Dorothy Mae said:
Deuteronomy has a long list of curses that happen to people depending upon their choices, curses and blessings. Jesus continued this line in the Beatitudes where blessings are listed depending solely upon our behaviour. It’s also called reaping what you sow.
Click to expand...
In the Beattitudes, Jesus taught that not only actions, but even entertaining evil thoughts is sin.
 
Who Me said:
As is also his great love for those who obey him.
God character is not that of vengeful anger, but that of a Holy, Righteous, Just and Merciful God.
Yes God hates sin, yes he will judge all who have not repented, but in All he does he is Just.
Click to expand...
I agree. My point was that even though God is displeased, he is very patient before his judgment falls on the unrepentant.
 
journeyman said:
By "all men" being under a curse, Paul means people who have consciousness of sin, whether Jews by direct commandment, or gentiles by conscience. He doesn't mean everyone is born automatically cursed,

Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, vs.14 (That is, by direct command.)

For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law. vs.13 (It's not regarded as an offence against God, even though it is.),

For when the Gentiles, which have not the law,do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: Rom.2:14
Click to expand...
Okie doke.
 
journeyman said:
Yes, but since he made all,

The one who oppresses the poor insults his Creator, but whoever shows favor to the needy honors him. Pro.14:31

Injustice against what belongs to God is injustice against God.
Click to expand...
Yes, but this makes him out to be a being that only cares about his own. There are lots of people like this out there and he is not one of them. There are those who are angry if their son is insulted but not if other boys are. The reason is because they care only about their own. They do not care about injustice per se, just if it touches them. God is not like that.

God hates injustice because it is wrong, not because it touches his own. There are beings in an other kingdom who do not belong to him. There are men who consider themselves and likely are, belonging to the kingdom of darkness. They do not belong to him by choice. God still hates it when they suffer injustice. God hates it because it is wrong, not because it touches that which belongs to him. See the difference?
 
journeyman said:
In the Beattitudes, Jesus taught that not only actions, but even entertaining evil thoughts is sin.
Click to expand...
If you are referring to the intention to commit adultery, what he was describing is best known today as pornography. That is, after all, an act. But yes, otherwise enjoying evil thoughts is the doorway to sin and therefore sin.
 
ilovejcsog said:
Wasn't it Gods plan that his son would die to save us from our sins?
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Absolutely there is a Plan. And why is it Mysterious? This is the hidden layer of the Gospel that few seem to understand.

Ephesians 3:9-11 NLT - "I was chosen to explain to everyone this mysterious plan that God, the Creator of all things, had kept secret from the beginning. 10 God's purpose in all this was to use the church to display his wisdom in its rich variety to all the unseen rulers and authorities in the heavenly places. 11 This was his eternal plan, which he carried out through Christ Jesus our Lord."

:biggrin
 
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