Our houses are protected by the good Lord and a gun...

[Pard]

The other day I was listening to one of the two country channels that come in on the radio and this song "Way Out Here" by Josh Thompson came on. I like this song and the windows were down so I turned it up a little bit. My passenger didn't mind in the least as she likes country as much as the next person who likes country.

I don't think she had ever heard the song before due to her facial expressions. It got to the part about "good Lord" and she was all bright and smiling and then a moment later the "and a gun" played and she became very dark and cross. Well before I could even ask her why she had such a quick change in heart she changed the channel! (seriously who changes a man's radio?!?!?!?!:eeeekkk)

Next thing I know she is telling me how this is such a bad song and how it's anti-Christian and such. Now I'd seen the sentiment before (not with this song but you know) but I was surprised to see her share it.

After some more talk it ended up being that she didn't think a person ought to defend themselves they should just let the good Lord do what He will and if He doesn't make something fall on the attacker's head then you are just out of luck.

My grandmother has this same opinion. As do a couple other people I know in real life and I've picked up that some on here feel this way too.

Now my dad may not have taught me all the much in the way of being Christian but one thing he likes to say has always stuck with me. It's a little story...

This guy used to pray to God ever day. He would always make sure to include a prayer to God asking for Him to let him win the lottery. The man never won the lottery. When he died and went to Heaven he asked God "Didn't you hear me? I just wanted to win the lottery once!" And to this God replied "How can I help you win the lottery if you never even buy a ticket!"

(I get it gambling... ick! I feel the same way. But the point is still the same...)

God helps people who help themselves. I don't know how many people shoot guns but when you are awoken in the middle of the night by breaking glass your adrenaline will surge (and ask anyone who has ever been in combat even when trained it can be very hard to shoot properly with adrenaline running through your system). Add to that you are tired and it's dark in the house and you are dead nervous. Unless you have a shotgun and you are shooting down a narrow hallway it would pretty much take an act of divine intervention for you to even hit the jamook who is skulking around in your house!

So I just don't get this whole mentality some Christians have that it is better to let someone roll right on over you than to stand up and defend yourself. You are supposed to defend your faith right? How can you do that if you can't even defend your life and the lives of your family?

 

[Classik]

Do me a favour and go through these verses.


Psalm 23 NKJV
3 He restores my soul; He leads me in the paths of righteousness For His name’s sake.
4 Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil; For You are with me; Your rod and Your staff, they comfort me.
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The verses should really help you.

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Psalm 127:1

Unless the LORD builds the house, They labor in vain who build it; Unless the LORD guards the city, The watchman stays awake in vain.
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Why worry then? Must you carry a gun?
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Mathew 26

51 And suddenly, one of those who were with Jesus stretched out his hand and drew his sword, struck the servant of the high priest, and cut off his ear.
52 But Jesus said to him, “Put your sword in its place, for all who take the sword will perish by the sword.
53 Or do you think that I cannot now pray to My Father, and He will provide Me with more than twelve legions of angels?
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JESUS' response is an Interesting one!
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Mathew 6:24

24 “No one can serve two masters; for either he will hate the one and love the other, or else he will be loyal to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and mammon.
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Is God compatible with weapons?
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Ephesians 6
12 For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places.

13 Therefore take up the whole armor of God, that you may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.

Psalm 37:23
23 The steps of a good man are ordered by the LORD, And He delights in his way.
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You can't fight for Him.
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Psalm 91

1 He who dwells in the secret place of the Most High Shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty.
2 I will say of the LORD, “ He is my refuge and my fortress; My God, in Him I will trust.â€
3 Surely He shall deliver you from the snare of thefowler And from the perilous pestilence.
4 He shall cover you with His feathers, And under His wings you shall take refuge; His truth shall be your shield and buckler.
5 You shall not be afraid of the terror by night, Nor of the arrow that flies by day,
6 Nor of the pestilence that walks in darkness,Nor of the destruction that lays waste at noonday.
7 A thousand may fall at your side, And ten thousand at your right hand; But it shall not come near you.
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You can't fight for Him. He is your refuge. That weapon does not save you but Him.

 

[Nacho]

Who is to say that Jesus won't use a weapon to save you?

If anyone thinks it is wrong for a Christian to own a gun then they are thinking wrong.

I don't sleep with one under my pillow, because I don't worry because no weapon formed against me shall prosper. But I own guns......and if the situation happened that I had to use one to protect my family then I would.

I don't own guns for protection, I own them for sport. But I would use them for protection if I had to.

 

[Pard]

I see no problems with your scripture references. I do find it naive to assume that people with guns don't trust God simply because they have a "boom-boom stick". As I illustrated for you before. To make a shot in the dark with you adrenaline pumping pretty much requires an act of divine intervention. It would be naive of me (in turn) to think that because I own guns I do not need God to protect me. I'm a sound sleeper if I were to wake up to glass breaking surely it is God's doing.

Exodus 22:2-3 tells us "If the thief is found breaking in, and he is struck so that he dies, there shall be no guilt for his bloodshed. If the sun has risen on him, there shall be guilt for his bloodshed. He should make full restitution; if he has nothing, then he shall be sold for his theft."

If your life is in danger then God has given us permission to act accordingly.

In Proverbs 25:26 we read that "A righteous man who falters before the wicked is like a murky spring and a polluted well.

Waking around unarmed and without any means of defending oneself is dangerous in God's eyes. It takes a wicked man to seek out and kill. A goodly man would be in the wrong if he were to end up defenseless before such a wicked man for he would be spoiling the gift of Life that God so lovingly gave unto him.

It's easy in our civilized society to equate the good citizen with a doormat an the evil one with a boot. But it is not so!

"God is our refuge and strength, an ever-present help in trouble." Psalm 46:1

In the same book it is then written that it is God "Who trains my hands for war and my fingers for battle". There is no conflict in the eyes of the writer and if all scripture is from God (as it truly is) then there is no conflict in God's eyes between trusting our lives unto Him and at the same time being ready to defend ourselves.

I have more but I'll wait as I have no doubt someone will fire a few key verses my way and the remainder of what I have will surely dispute the interpretations they will undoubtedly have to take.

 

[Artie]

51 And suddenly, one of those who were with Jesus stretched out his hand and drew his sword, struck the servant of the high priest, and cut off his ear.
52 But Jesus said to him, “Put your sword in its place, for all who take the sword will perish by the sword.
53 Or do you think that I cannot now pray to My Father, and He will provide Me with more than twelve legions of angels?
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JESUS' response is an Interesting one!

Indeed. What exactly would these twelve legions do and how would they be armed? Sounds like Gods mercenaries.

Actually, I was just wondering if anyone knows of any verified occasion where God or angels or whatever have actually prevented or intercepted a violent altercation in favor of a person asking or praying for help? I don't mean something that with a ton of good will might be interpreted as help but something like an angel taking a bullet for someone with several witnesses. With all the wars there must have been ample opportunity.

 

[reba]

One nite about 1978 masked guys kicked in our front door 3 at the door 3 more around their car. it was about 10 20 one summer evening.. Very pleased John did not kill anyone. When johns empty gun was jabbed under the bad guys chin it caused him to stumble backwards, The shotgun went off in the ceiling.! they took off The shotgun break in guys finely got it when some one shot them first they killed & raped folks

When these guys were out side knocking on the door i did not let them in i said i dont know you they replied o but you will that is not something a girl forgets...

I have always trusted the Lord yet i put on a coat when it is cold. I wear the dumb seatbelt. IMO we are to protect our selfs and each situation may be different.IMO God would not expect a man to stand back and allow his family to be ravaged

IMO this verse is one that covers the situation

1Ti 5:8 But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel.

 

[Classik]

If anyone thinks it is wrong for a Christian to own a gun then they are thinking wrong.

I don't sleep with one under my pillow, because I don't worry because no weapon formed against me shall prosper. But I own guns......and if the situation happened that I had to use one to protect my family then I would.

.

Sounds kind of self-contradictory.
Can't that same God prevent evil from Coming your way?

 

[Classik]

Christ never used weapons. The disciples never used weapons.
Why do we need weapons? Are the People of today more violent?
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or do we mean manslaughter?

 

[Classik]

I have more but I'll wait as I have no doubt someone will fire a few key verses my way and the remainder of what I have will surely dispute the interpretations they will undoubtedly have to take.

Very funny!

 

[Nacho]

Sounds kind of self-contradictory.
Can't that same God prevent evil from Coming your way?

Sure he can.....he is God.

Does evil come our ways sometimes though? Sure does.

Do Christians sometimes get killed by evil??? Sure do.

I trust God to protect me, but who is to say that God won't give me strength and wisdom to protect my family instead of say having an Angel step in?

 

[jasoncran]

Christ never used weapons. The disciples never used weapons.
Why do we need weapons? Are the People of today more violent?
--
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or do we mean manslaughter?

what pretell does god judge man with?

a bunny rabbit.seriously, if you dont want to own a gun then dont but dont judge another who like me and a pard are willing to die so that you dont have worry about the bad guys.

would you stand by and let your family scream in agony while being killed.

you really belive that god will find away?

test your self then im hungry god feed me and dont go to that fridge or look for that job to pay for that food?its one thing if you have exhausted your options and et all

i have prayed when i have locked and loaded and asked god keep me from dying but i didnt clear the weapon. i kept it. funny thing i never shot the thing in war save to test it and at a range.

yet with medicine dare not pray and ask and believe god for that healing. dare not trust god for that situation let the govt do it. odd.

some of you may not believe that above line so take with a grain of salt. for the record i hate violence and i dont watch gore and i do mma for fun.if confronted with a chance to run i will take it.

so let me ask you this, when the cops come to save you and you are about to be killed with a knife slinger will you beg the cop not to kill him?

once the baddies try to harm my wife , my family or slay that baby in my avatar they will die if have can ensure that it happens. i will try to escape but again when seconds count cops are minutes away. i have called the cops in less then 5 miles from the station and it took longer then that for them to arrive.

imigane if was being stabbed and i was using the cell phone.

 

[reba]

So some folks dont like the whole idea of guns.
Would you support any form of self defense?
To you think self defense is a sin?

 

[handy]

I certainly think that Christians are free to use guns for self and family protection.

Sometimes I think that we can test God with the attitude that He is supposed to do everything for us.

Now, I do believe that God can and will divinely intervene at times...but usually what happens in life is that things follow their course. If a bad guy targets a Christian and the Christian puts up no defense...the Christian can "go home" a lot sooner and sometimes after some very ugly torture and horribleness. Or, Christian can pull out a gun and bad guy can back away very slowly.

Now for the real shocker of this whole story:

She changed the channel in the middle of the song!!!
Move her along, Pard! :D

 

[reba]

Christ never used weapons. The disciples never used weapons.
Why do we need weapons? Are the People of today more violet?
--
--
or do we mean manslaughter?

Pete did

Joh 18:10 Then Simon Peter having a sword drew it, and smote the high priest's servant, and cut off his right ear. The servant's name was Malchus.
Joh 18:11 Then said Jesus unto Peter, Put up thy sword into the sheath: the cup which my Father hath given me, shall I not drink it?

Jesus didn't tell him to get rid of the sword.

This i believe is one of those topics that is choice. If joe has faith the not use anything for protection good for joe. but joe need not judge sam for feeling the need of protection..



I agree move her along...

 

[reba]

Sheesh Classik what would a ball game be with out defense? :p

 

[jasoncran]

cough, all sports were originally to train the armies of ancients culture or combat orginally.

judo in part and mma were such things and greco roman wrestling and boxing.

and most of the olympic sports.

 

[Pard]

Do me a favour and go through these verses.

It occurred to me that I did not respond directly to your scripture and I do apologize for that one! Let's see what I can do. Shall we?

Psalm 23 NKJV
3 He restores my soul; He leads me in the paths of righteousness For His name’s sake.
4 Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil; For You are with me; Your rod and Your staff, they comfort me.
------------------------------------------------------------
The verses should really help you.

Owning and using a gun doesn't some how factor God out of the equation. You seem to think that God dispatches all evils and all threats with angels and a blinding light that descends from Heaven (Well I don't propose you think this but it sure comes out to seem that way). God works through the our own hands and the hands of others. Case and point: the Bible. Did God write the Bible with His own two hands? No. He wrote them through the hands of His people. We even know who some of these hands belonged to (Matthew David Moses ect.).

God works through many means not just the "miraculous" ones. Who is to say that an arrow or a blade set forth by a Jew long ago in the time of the Old Testament wasn't divinely guided by the Hands of God? In fact I'd suggest and I think you'd agree that those weapons were indeed guided by our Lord. Why would it be any different today? Have we some how become more civilized in God's eyes? I surely think not as He doesn't lot us up based on national boundaries but He views us as a whole and we (as a whole) are no more civilized today than in the times of David.

Psalm 127:1

Unless the LORD builds the house, They labor in vain who build it; Unless the LORD guards the city, The watchman stays awake in vain.
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Why worry then? Must you carry a gun?

Verse here actually helps disprove your case. You are right in that the Lord does guard us! By it clearly says that the watchman (who defends the city) would do so in vain if it were not for God's own guarding of the city. It doesn't say that the watchman isn't needed it simply says that the watchman is useless without God's guiding hand and protective embrace! This is something I feel and I am sure any gun-tottin' Christian would agree with.

Mathew 26

51 And suddenly, one of those who were with Jesus stretched out his hand and drew his sword, struck the servant of the high priest, and cut off his ear.
52 But Jesus said to him, “Put your sword in its place, for all who take the sword will perish by the sword.
53 Or do you think that I cannot now pray to My Father, and He will provide Me with more than twelve legions of angels?
------------------------------------------------------------
JESUS' response is an Interesting one!

I don't pretend to know this verse enough to interpret it however I can apply it to real life. If this were always true (as you knowingly or not have asserted) then no Christian would ever be senselessly slain by the hands of an attacker for Jesus would send down legions of angels to defend that Christian body. Since this doesn't exactly happen on a daily basis it is not a proper assertions.

I'd also have to suggest that perhaps the context this scripture is currently being used in is not the right one. But I'd have to go do some more snooping. Allow me to get back to you on this one?

I do feel that I should add that I am fully aware that I may very well die by the proverbial sword. I am in college currently so that I may one day become a police officer. Further it is my intent (and I feel it is God's will) to enlist in the army this up coming May (when I get my degree). Both occupations (soldier and officer) come with the ever real threat of being killed. I'd rather not die until I am really old and have plenty of children and grandchildren to heckle and annoy but if I have to die before that than I'd be more than willing to die by the proverbial sword because at least I'd be sparing another from such a fate and then they can go heckle all their offspring for me!

Mathew 6:24

24 “No one can serve two masters; for either he will hate the one and love the other, or else he will be loyal to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and mammon.
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Is God compatible with weapons?

I don't get the point here. Are you saying all gun owners serve two masters because their guns take up such an extraordinary part of their lives? Isn't this something that can be applied to anyone who does anything in excess or who worships anything beyond God Himself? Since this does seem to be the case it isn't one expressly related to the act of defending oneself before an attacker and so I don't see why I ought to address this any further.

Sorry if that isn't sufficient. If it isn't I think I'll need more than five words in explanation of you justified use of the above scripture.

Ephesians 6
12 For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places.

13 Therefore take up the whole armor of God, that you may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.

Psalm 37:23
23 The steps of a good man are ordered by the LORD, And He delights in his way.
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You can't fight for Him.

Again I don't see it. Could you explain this further?

Psalm 91

1 He who dwells in the secret place of the Most High Shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty.
2 I will say of the LORD, “ He is my refuge and my fortress; My God, in Him I will trust.”
3 Surely He shall deliver you from the snare of thefowler And from the perilous pestilence.
4 He shall cover you with His feathers, And under His wings you shall take refuge; His truth shall be your shield and buckler.
5 You shall not be afraid of the terror by night, Nor of the arrow that flies by day,
6 Nor of the pestilence that walks in darkness,Nor of the destruction that lays waste at noonday.
7 A thousand may fall at your side, And ten thousand at your right hand; But it shall not come near you.
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You can't fight for Him. He is your refuge. That weapon does not save you but Him.

Again. No one is saying that guns are any form of replacement for God. That's just a silly idea! And when someone breaks into my house and threatens the lives of my family I will trust in the Lord that He deliver my bullets true.

 

[Pard]

So some folks dont like the whole idea of guns.
Would you support any form of self defense?
To you think self defense is a sin?

I think Reba is right. If the concept of guns is clouding a the ability to reason on the idea of defending oneself than let's remove that from the equation.

Also I don't think people are any more violet or violent today. But you must be aware that the gospel only follows Jesus. During His time the Jews still abided by the rules dictated by Moses from God. These rules included defending oneself against an attacker and in fact slaying the attacker if one's life was in danger or if the attacker came in the night (for at night you cannot tell a thief from a murderer!)

 

[Classik]

would you stand by and let your family scream in agony while being killed.

you really belive that god will find away?

I am not God's favourite child. We all are His favourite children.
Does God not reveal things to us to warn us of dangers ahead? This is my stand. He does. And when He does you take the right action. He tells you what to do.

test your self then im hungry god feed me and dont go to that fridge or look for that job to pay for that food?its one thing if you have exhausted your options and et all

A completely different issue

yet with medicine dare not pray and ask and believe god for that healing. dare not trust god for that situation let the govt do it. odd.

A Different issue

so let me ask you this, when the cops come to save you and you are about to be killed with a knife slinger will you beg the cop not to kill him?

And he did not succeed.
The cops have a book for such People. I do not think I have up to a 42 percent vote to have him killed.
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What you mean is that you would have him killed. A'igh'!

Jasoncran enters a community and quarrels with a man. The man goes crazy and begins fighting. You give him a profesional blow; he falls. This man screams and 70 People ( men and women and teenagers) hear him and run towards you. They are all his relatives.

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They overwhelm you and tie you unto a tree and were about to kill you.
A vehicle approaches - 12 armed cops. And they surrounded these People. Would you let the cops kill them?

once the baddies try to harm my wife , my family or slay that baby in my avatar they will die if have can ensure that it happens. i will try to escape but again when seconds count cops are minutes away. i have called the cops in less then 5 miles from the station and it took longer then that for them to arrive.

imigane if was being stabbed and i was using the cell phone.

manslaughter? Take cover?

The first is usually an involuntary action. There is injustice here.
The second is okay

won't the good Lord you serve not warn you about the future?

 

[Classik]

So some folks dont like the whole idea of guns.
Would you support any form of self defense?
To you think self defense is a sin?

He warns you of whatever...
Reba does not look like one who :twopistols