Our houses are protected by the good Lord and a gun...
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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
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Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
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Haha! Hehe! Ho ho!
God once did. Moses broke it
I do not totally disagree with self defence.
My problem with us is that People today so much put ther trust in weapons.
Are we paranoids today? (I do not mean you).
God commanded them to do that.
The problem today is that many get unnecessarily frightened by mere 'shadows'. At the end they see all is 'mirage'.
In those days when I was a 'sophormore' (I think) something Happened. Students were studying in different blocks. That was around 10 pm. A female stood up and screamed and began running towards the door. Someone clattered downstairs the instant she screamed.
Instantly the whole students inside that particular building shivered with fear and raced towards the door.
The other blocks responded. A crazy chain activity. It was a crazy network of I-run-for-my-dear-life.
The entire university and community probably have gone aflame.
What has Happened?
Who is pursuing who? Who is(are) the bad guy(s)?
The security could not any. Later afterwards the school calmed down.
Security: 'You screamed and fled. What Happened?' she was asked
female: 'I-I-I am- am s-sorry.'
Security: 'Ok. Now tell us. What Happened? You screamed.'
With a gesture of her finger, she said:
female: 'He-he came and took my candy and began walking away. I looked and ther none left for me. So I stood and screamed and began racing after him.'
:D
:biglol :toofunny That is our mindset today - running when no one pursues you.
The watchman is needed, but
These verses are for People who completely rely upon their own abilities.
Patiently!
All I mean to say is 'some People are too conscious of their weapons'. They do not worry about calling upon God for direction. Give God His place and He will direct your way.
Proverbs 3 NKJV
5 Trust in the LORD with all your heart, And lean not on your own understanding;
6 In all your ways acknowledge Him, And He shall direct your paths.
Ephesians 6: 12a and 23
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i am somewhat familiar with spain. running with the bulls isnt well passive is it? kinda violent eh. would jesus espouse needless torture of the bull before its death?My Catalans are not trained for that.
no, he wouldnt. ok that came from the roman gladitatioral days when animals and men were killed for sport.
in war often men who arent saved now the day the die or when it comes but that doesnt tell you when. there are times when you dont know. god doesnt go heres the baddy and he has a gun. sometimes but not all the times.
the sense of danger that pard will know about is common to all men. i has nothing to do with god but what he equipped us with.
next, i am well versed in mma and other arts. though not a chump i am not a professional but i do train alot.one can with a punching angry guy walk away.
if said guy had a knife and i can run what then?just die?
how is it different with feeding myself and others its not. prayer isnt magical do nothing. its asking for guidance and doing what you feel after consultation with the word and the spirit telling you.
for instance the job i have for the city didnt come by one day or by night but by mistakes and realising that this job wasnt it. god orchestrated and placed me where i am.
several weeks ago i was on my way to the paper route and saw a female girl by the gas station and gave her a ride to her house. no imagine this i see here lying on the ground and a man brandishing a knife over here heart.
i have no gun, dont carry, i can only call the cops. i can scare him but if he decides to take me on its not looking good for me.
now then change that with if i carry. i can call the cops and draw and do a citizens arrest and shoot if need be. most men dont want to die and will run or do as i say. if not they die.
trust in man and weapons, theres a reason i said what i said about doctors.
hey i feel depressed and down, lets go to the shrink and see what chemical imbalence i have. rather then God i dont feel happy can you heal me and then if you are lead then see the doctor. i was TOLD BY god i had ptsd , no doctor told me and when god revealed that he said i will heal thee.
hey i feel depressed and down, lets go to the shrink and see what chemical imbalence i have. rather then God i dont feel happy can you heal me and then if you are lead then see the doctor. i was TOLD BY god i had ptsd , no doctor told me and when god revealed that he said i will heal thee.
can you tell me why then the lord told peter to buy a sword?
luke 22:36
so the lord is insane and tells them buy a sword then says its a sin to use it? its when pete was to use it that was wrong.
its like this. go and get a girl and get her naked but dont have sex with her. that isnt what the the lord does, the lord doesnt tempt and yet your pov implies just that. go and buy one but dont use it.
So your problem is self defense in general? Then I'd be very pleased if you would respond to my second post which contains some scriptures. I am fairly certain that God not only allows but requires us to defend ourselves. After all this life we each have is a gift from God and it shouldn't be something you hand over without a fight.
Also I can't stress enough... we are not talking about people who rely on their own abilities. We call them pagans. My topic is clearly aimed at Christians defending themselves. A Christian (by definition) relies on God so this premise that people do not rely on God needs to go out the window unless you are actually saying that no person who has/does/or will defend themselves relies on God and in this case you have some serious scripture to contest with and in fact you have need much more scriptural support than you have provided thus far.
Also I can't stress enough... we are not talking about people who rely on their own abilities. We call them pagans. My topic is clearly aimed at Christians defending themselves. A Christian (by definition) relies on God so this premise that people do not rely on God needs to go out the window unless you are actually saying that no person who has/does/or will defend themselves relies on God and in this case you have some serious scripture to contest with and in fact you have need much more scriptural support than you have provided thus far.
I believe Jesus was referencing the incident described in Exodus 32:27. Ramban has much to say on this which is right up Jesus Alley. There were three types of people who were in front of the Golden Calf ya know...
Pard said:
Exactly, and the key word you used is "Accordingly". If we look at that verse, it is permissible to kill somebody who breaks into your house at night. However, it isn't permissible to kill somebody who breaks into your house during the day. Why is this?
To understand this, you have to understand the culture. People who broke in at night were known for killing the occupants of the house, especially if the home owner woke up while being robbed, while robbers during the day would break in when you were away, thus, their intent was only to steal, not murder...
I believe our modern laws are patterned out of this type of discernment because you can't shoot and kill somebody in a parking lot who's coming after you with a plastic butter knife...
My understanding was that it was written that way because you cannot tell a robber from a murderer in the night. That is interesting to know also Stove.
In comparison to modern day... burglary at night is a Class B and burglary at day is a Class C.
In comparison to modern day... burglary at night is a Class B and burglary at day is a Class C.
Christ used a whip and Peter cut off an ear...
Sorry, just saying ;)
But anyway, to try and use those two incidents to justify having a gun to protect yourself would be to completely miss the intent of what the scriptures where the whip and sword are mentioned... It's like me telling you that you can't use musical instruments in your worship because nowhere do you see Jesus or his disciples using them.. The best we have would be after the dinner when they went out and sung a song...
I think it best to always look at the main intent behind a passage, and then build from there.
wow, we both learned a bit more today
And people say our country isn't founded on biblical principals ;) :toofunny
A gun is a powerful symbol of some of the very things Jesus strove to overturn – the exertion of power of one person over another and the destruction of life that is precious to its Creator.
<O:p</O:pWhen we embrace guns, we are effectively saying “no” to the imperative to seek the <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com
The gun is kind of like the cross - they are both powerful symbols of the power to deal death. Ironically, and yet wonderfully, Jesus turned things around and uses the cross to defeat death. When we buy into a culture of having guns, we are, whether we realize it or not, denying the accomplishment of the cross.
When Jesus entered history, He challenged <st1:country-region w:st="on">Israel</st1:country-region> to abandon its ways of “being <st1:country-region w:st="on"><ST1:pIsrael</ST1:p</st1:country-region>”. Jews were taking one of three wrong paths – the path of withdrawal from the world, the path of compromise with the world, and the path of militant zealotry. By embracing guns as an acceptable element of our world, we are making the same error as the militant zealots – using the power system of the threat of the “sword” to achieve ends.
I fully understand that is an entirely separate question as to whether we can indeed keep guns out of the hands of criminals. But in that case, the best long term kingdom honouring answer is not to arm ourselves, but to figure out ways to get guns out of the hands of everybody.<O:p</O:p
If I am not mistaken, Jesus admonished Peter for his action.
And Jesus used the whip as a symbolic act of judgement against the temple. One cannot, I suggest, use this example to legitimate the use of weapons by the Christian.
Drew,
Respectfully, guns are not the problem... People are.
Why did Jesus over turn the tables in the Temple, and why did he bring out a whip? Drew, it's not wrong to stand up for what's right, and unfortunately sometimes you have to speak a language that others understand.
I'm sorry Drew, but if we all threw our guns away, the only ones who would have guns would be the criminals. It's just the way the world is, but it's a reality and you cannot escape that reality by going into some crystal theological palace.
Let's look back in history. How would you have prevented Hitlers assault?
When a ravaging wolf is running toward you, it's not the time to ask it about it's puppy hood.
Luke 22 NKJV
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36 Then He said to them, But now, he who has a money bag, let him take it, and likewise a knapsack; and he who has no sword, let him sell his garment and buy one.
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I know and understand what you are trying to say here. I do not believed Christ asked them to carry swords. Look at the next verse.
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37 For I say to you that this which is written must still be accomplished in Me: And He was numbered with the transgressors. For the things concerning Me have an end.
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I see 37 to mean: whether you decide to fight on my behalf or not (as He knew they would attempt doing)...you can't stop Me from fulfilling the work of the Cross. Whatever violent measures you could wish to apply...I'd certainly die.
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38 So they said, Lord, look, here are two swords. And He said to them, It is enough.
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'It is enough', to me understanding is: Do they think they need some swords to end it - and stop me from dying? I let them take it - and I will show them they do not need it. I won't upset them any more.
with reference to the 3 verses above (He must have known their mind)
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Mathew 26 NKJV
51 And suddenly, one of those who were with Jesus stretched out his hand and drew his sword, struck the servant of the high priest, and cut off his ear.
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They probably had brought those swords along.
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52 But Jesus said to him, Put your sword in its place, for all who take the sword will perish by the sword.
53 Or do you think that I cannot now pray to My Father, and He will provide Me with more than twelve legions of angels?
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Jesus' intent was made clear to them. I believe this clears the doubt in verses 36, 37, 38 of Luke 22.
If not then why would Christ 'publicly' frown :angry at His disciple's use of violence.
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54 Howthen could the Scriptures be fulfilled, that it must happen thus?
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No swords! Court!
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Truly I made a mistake with this topic. it should have always been solely focused on defending oneself. I ought to have taken the gun reference out of it entirely because people are getting so very hung up on the gun aspect and don't even address the main topic which is DEFENSE.
Yes he did Drew, and had you read the rest of that post, I clearly stated that it could not be used as an argument for or against weapons. Clearly, it was a refute to his assertion that neither Jesus nor his disciples used weapons, which clearly is not the case.Drew said:
I am surprised drew, you are usually a much more careful reader than that.
Drew said:
Psalms 69:8 I am become a stranger unto my brethren, and an alien unto my mother's children.
Jesus used the whip because his zeal consumed him... The only way to get them out of the temple, was to drive them out... It's what they understood, just like those who had to be driven out of Egypt...
I would assert that if somebody came into your house with a gun, much like what happened to Reba, they wouldn't care less about a theological statement... But they would understand a gun being pointed back at them.