Our Old Man - Our Young Child.

[follower of Christ]

Also, why is this strange to most Christians.

Why are not more Christians foccussing on their old man being crucified and why are they not focussing on Christ in them, the hope of glory. Seeing that the man child teaching is about Christ and Him IN US and maturing in His people, WHY is this such a sore point to Christians ? Why can't Christ mature in His people ? Just because we have no faith that that is possible, we shoot it down when somebody DOES have faith for it. Plus the Bible is 100% behind that teaching that Christ is INDEED maturing and not just maturing, He Himself taught that He will manifest one day in the Body of Christ ! Why do Christians stand against this? Would it be so terrible to see Him come to maturity in us?

MY sore point isnt maturing...MY sore point is bad doctrine and MISuse of Gods word...as Ive seen from WW already on this forum.

We should look at our motives.

C

OUR motivation is not allowing someone to create UNscriptural doctrine and pass it off as Gods word.
Some here have alreadly shown a real knack for twisting and distorting the scriptures...something that the church has to be an guard for.

 

[Rick W]

OK, let's get back on topic and see where it goes.

 

[Cornelius]

OUR motivation is not allowing someone to create UNscriptural doctrine and pass it off as Gods word.
Some here have alreadly shown a real knack for twisting and distorting the scriptures...something that the church has to be an guard for.

Goodness, if this is so, then you will have your hands full on this forum, because I can tell you there is very little true and pure doctrine taught here.
I suggest, that we use Scripture to interpret scripture. As I have already done, in showing that it is indeed God who is using the image of a child in the Bible when speaking about believers. He also uses "milk" and "weaned" when speaking about the same matter. And as such, we can in fact rely on that image to be true in the rest of Scripture too. If that was not so, God would leave us with no means at all to stay secure in the truth.

 

[follower of Christ]

OK, let's get back on topic and see where it goes.

 

[Cornelius]

[quote="Rick W":jvzeprnf]OK, let's get back on topic and see where it goes.

[/quote:jvzeprnf]

totopic

 

[Cornelius]

So can anybody commend on the "Old man" versus the New man in us. This is after all the main theme in our salvation. Taking up our crosses , does not mean "Come and carry something heavy" or "carry your burdens" it surely is an instrument of death and it is for that reason that Jesus mentions it before He even went to His cross.
What does this mean in your life..........to be dead and crucified.

 

[whirlwind]

I like this Ephesians passages..especially the underlined part....

[quote="follower of Christ":34h8ge4t]Now why does this look to me like just one more topic where WW is going to teach us yunguns things that scripture doesnt actually SAY that "god" is supposedly telling WW ?

No personal attack meant, but this is getting sort of old...kwim ?
Any one of us here can pick up a bible and read it and understand it. We dont need to be spood fed by anyone who is trying to insert anything into the scriptures that isnt actually there.

The attack is not taken personally. :D

• 11 Thessalonians 3:1-2 Finally, brethren, pray for us, that the word of the Lord may have free course, and be glorified, even as it is with you: And that we may be delivered from unreasonable and wicked men: for all men have not faith.
  
  3:4-6 And we have confidence in the Lord touching you, that ye both do and will do the things which we command you. And the Lord direct your hearts into the love of God, and into the patient waiting for Christ. Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us.
  
  3:10-11 For even when we were with you, this we commanded you, that if any would not work, neither should he eat. For we hear that there are some which walk among you disorderly, working not at all, but are busybodies. Now them that are such we command and exhort by our Lord Jesus Christ, that with quietness they work, and eat their own bread.
  
  3:15 Yet count him not as an enemy, but admonish him as a brother.

huh....so when someone ADDS to the precepts what were recieved, we should withdraw from them apparently.
Great chapter... [/quote:34h8ge4t]

Am I being "disorderly?" I certainly don't mean to be disorderly but I do realize that a little dust must fly.

• Luke 12:49 I am come to send fire on the earth and what will I, if it be already kindled? (51) Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay: but rather division:

As you have stated...we can all read the words for ourselves. If that was all there was then why are we here? Why not just read? There is more than what we see on the surface. He opens that understanding and when He does we are not to keep it hidden. Because it is something you have not known, heard of, been taught or understood...does that make it wrong?

• Luke 12:47 And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes. But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. for unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.
  
  Matthew 25:14 For the kingdom of heaven is as a man travelling into a far country, who called his own servants, and delivered unto them his goods. (19) After a long time the lord of those servants cometh, and reckoneth with them.

To those that took "his goods" and sowed them he said..."Well done, thou good and faithful servant" but unto the servant that did not share what they were taught he said, "'Thou wicked and slothful servant."

• 25:29-30 For unto every one that hath shall be given, and he shall have abundance: but from him that hath not shall be taken away even that which he hath. And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.'

 

[Ret]

Reading too much into something is as bad as reading too little.
Did you know God hates trees?
It's true. The green movement is not biblical.

Deu 16:21 Thou shalt not plant thee a grove of any trees near unto the altar of the LORD thy God
Jer 6:6 For thus hath the LORD of hosts said, Hew ye down trees, and cast a mount against Jerusalem: this is the city to be visited; she is wholly oppression in the midst of her.
Jer 7:20 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, mine anger and my fury shall be poured out upon this place, upon man, and upon beast, and upon the trees of the field, and upon the fruit of the ground; and it shall burn, and shall not be quenched.
Exo 34:13 But ye shall destroy their altars, break their images, and cut down their groves:
Deu 7:5 But thus shall ye deal with them; ye shall destroy their altars, and break down their images, and cut down their groves, and burn their graven images with fire.
2Ki 18:4 He removed the high places, and brake the images, and cut down the groves, and brake in pieces the brasen serpent that Moses had made: for unto those days the children of Israel did burn incense to it: and he called it Nehushtan.
2Ch 14:3 For he took away the altars of the strange gods, and the high places, and brake down the images, and cut down the groves:

Rick...I agree...God hates trees....His hatred depends on the tree(s) and the purpose for which they were being used. In the above verses - trees (groves) were in connection with idolatrous worship, and yes, God cut them down and burned them - a lesson against idolatrous worship.

Also note that God calls trees... 'Trees of Righteousness'.

• Isaiah 61:3 To appoint unto them that mourn in Zion, to give unto them beauty for ashes, the oil of joy for mourning, the garment of praise for the spirit of heaviness; that they might be called trees of righteousness, the planting of the LORD, that he might be glorified. KJV

 

[Free]

I have yet to see any evidence of a "man child" teaching in the Bible. Certainly the OP just misuses Scripture to make a point. And I must admit, I have no idea what the point of the man child teaching is because there certainly doesn't seem to be one.

 

[Cornelius]

I have yet to see any evidence of a "man child" teaching in the Bible. Certainly the OP just misuses Scripture to make a point. And I must admit, I have no idea what the point of the man child teaching is because there certainly doesn't seem to be one.

Are you open to at least look at Scripture about it. Also are you familiar with the term "types and shadows"
and are you in agreement that God uses these types and shadows to teach us ?


1Co 10:11 Now these things happened unto them by way of example; and they were written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the ages are come.
Are you familiar and in agreement with this scripture? In other words can you see that it says, that some things are not just "in the open" and that it takes searching out?

Pro 25:2 It is the glory of God to conceal a thing; But the glory of kings is to search out a matter.

Also , is your understanding the same as mine regarding this scripture verse that basically confirms Pro 25:2 that certain things are hidden? We know that manna means Word (Jesus tells us that) so when God speaks of manna being hidden, would you agree that we can take that to mean "hidden word" ?

Rev 2:17 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith to the churches. To him that overcometh, to him will I give of the hidden manna, and I will give him a white stone, and upon the stone a new name written, which no one knoweth but he that receiveth it.

If you do, then I will put in the effort and share with you what I know

blessings
Cornelius

 

[whirlwind]

Cornelius....I hoped you would reply to Free's post.

Free....I hope you will take C up on his offer.

 

[Free]

I have yet to see any evidence of a "man child" teaching in the Bible. Certainly the OP just misuses Scripture to make a point. And I must admit, I have no idea what the point of the man child teaching is because there certainly doesn't seem to be one.

Are you open to at least look at Scripture about it.

I am always open to the truth in Scripture.

Also are you familiar with the term "types and shadows" and are you in agreement that God uses these types and shadows to teach us ?

1Co 10:11 Now these things happened unto them by way of example; and they were written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the ages are come.

Yes, I am familiar and in agreement.

Are you familiar and in agreement with this scripture? In other words can you see that it says, that some things are not just "in the open" and that it takes searching out?

Pro 25:2 It is the glory of God to conceal a thing; But the glory of kings is to search out a matter.

Yes and yes.

Also , is your understanding the same as mine regarding this scripture verse that basically confirms Pro 25:2 that certain things are hidden? We know that manna means Word (Jesus tells us that) so when God speaks of manna being hidden, would you agree that we can take that to mean "hidden word" ?

Rev 2:17 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith to the churches. To him that overcometh, to him will I give of the hidden manna, and I will give him a white stone, and upon the stone a new name written, which no one knoweth but he that receiveth it.

No, I don't think we have the same understanding of this verse.


Why so cryptic? My point was simple: the OP makes a connection that clearly isn't there.

 

[Sinthesis]

I have yet to see any evidence of a "man child" teaching in the Bible. Certainly the OP just misuses Scripture to make a point. And I must admit, I have no idea what the point of the man child teaching is because there certainly doesn't seem to be one.

The views expressed in this link are those of some other guy, and do not necessarily reflect the official policy, position, or opinions of Sinthesis.

http://www.bibleanswerstand.org/manchild.htm

 

[Cornelius]

I have yet to see any evidence of a "man child" teaching in the Bible. Certainly the OP just misuses Scripture to make a point. And I must admit, I have no idea what the point of the man child teaching is because there certainly doesn't seem to be one.

Are you open to at least look at Scripture about it.

I am always open to the truth in Scripture.

Also are you familiar with the term "types and shadows" and are you in agreement that God uses these types and shadows to teach us ?

1Co 10:11 Now these things happened unto them by way of example; and they were written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the ages are come.

Yes, I am familiar and in agreement.

Are you familiar and in agreement with this scripture? In other words can you see that it says, that some things are not just "in the open" and that it takes searching out?

Pro 25:2 It is the glory of God to conceal a thing; But the glory of kings is to search out a matter.

Yes and yes.

Also , is your understanding the same as mine regarding this scripture verse that basically confirms Pro 25:2 that certain things are hidden? We know that manna means Word (Jesus tells us that) so when God speaks of manna being hidden, would you agree that we can take that to mean "hidden word" ?

Rev 2:17 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith to the churches. To him that overcometh, to him will I give of the hidden manna, and I will give him a white stone, and upon the stone a new name written, which no one knoweth but he that receiveth it.

No, I don't think we have the same understanding of this verse.


Why so cryptic? My point was simple: the OP makes a connection that clearly isn't there.

Well, could you tell me the meaning of the verse please.

 

[Free]

Firstly, since it is speaking of those who overcome, it is speaking of the life after this and not speaking of a hidden manna or hidden word that we will receive in this life. Secondly, it is error to assume that any instance of the mention of manna in the NT, or OT, is a reference to Jesus. In this verse it could simply be spiritual nourishment of some sort for those who have entered into God's presence.

Just like the OP, there are too many assumptions being made and too many connections between passages which just aren't there.

 

[Cornelius]

Firstly, since it is speaking of those who overcome, it is speaking of the life after this and not speaking of a hidden manna or hidden word that we will receive in this life. Secondly, it is error to assume that any instance of the mention of manna in the NT, or OT, is a reference to Jesus. In this verse it could simply be spiritual nourishment of some sort for those who have entered into God's presence.

Just like the OP, there are too many assumptions being made and too many connections between passages which just aren't there.

You are not giving me anything Scriptural;

1) You are also trying to tell me that overcoming is not possible in this life. (that is not the Gospel)

1Jn 5:4 For whatsoever is begotten of God overcometh the world: (not in heaven) and this is the victory that hath overcome the world, even our faith.

2)Secondly Jesus Himself likens Himself to the manna from heaven. He , unlike the first manna, actually brings life, whereas the first manna, could only sustain the body for a while;

Joh 6:49 Your fathers ate the manna in the wilderness, and they died.
Joh 6:50 This is the bread which cometh down out of heaven, that a man may eat thereof, and not die. (Still speaking of Manna, referring to Himself)
Joh 6:51 I am the living bread which came down out of heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: yea and the bread which I will give is my flesh, for the life of the world.

Also , seeing that He is the Word and Manna from heaven. That scripture indeed tells us that those who overcome this world through their faith in the Living Word Jesus, will receive "hidden manna" , meaning, God will open the truth in the Scriptures to them.
God does not open all truth to everybody. You have ASK and KNOCK before you will receive and before it will be opened unto you.

 

[Rick W]

God does not open all truth to everybody. You have ASK and KNOCK before you will receive and before it will be opened unto you.

I must disagree here.
I was saved without looking for God. I wasn't asking and I wasn't knocking. Fact is after that event I was discipled by two Christians who offered their time quite freely. Again, I didn't ask nor did I knock.

That doesn't mean to say asking and knocking doesn't get results. During my walk I've known it to happen.

 

[Cornelius]

God does not open all truth to everybody. You have ASK and KNOCK before you will receive and before it will be opened unto you.

I must disagree here.
I was saved without looking for God. I wasn't asking and I wasn't knocking. Fact is after that event I was discipled by two Christians who offered their time quite freely. Again, I didn't ask nor did I knock.

That doesn't mean to say asking and knocking doesn't get results. During my walk I've known it to happen.

At this point I am not talking about salvation, but about understanding the Word and the wisdom that was hidden.
Mat 13:35 that it might be fulfilled which was spoken through the prophet, saying, I will open my mouth in parables; I will utter things hidden from the foundation of the world.

1Co 2:6 We speak wisdom, however, among them that are fullgrown: yet a wisdom not of this world, nor of the rulers of this world, who are coming to nought:
1Co 2:7 but we speak God's wisdom in a mystery, even the wisdom that hath been hidden, which God foreordained before the worlds unto our glory:

Col 2:2 that their hearts may be comforted, they being knit together in love, and unto all riches of the full assurance of understanding, that they may know the mystery of God, even Christ,
Col 2:3 in whom are all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge hidden.


Let me rather add scriptures to my statement:
1) God does not open all truth to everybody.

Mat 13:11 And he answered and said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.
Remember at this time, Jesus was talking about the Covenant people of God unto which He came.Even to those, God chose to not show some things.

Now look at the disciples, who were the closest to Jesus and had the best Teacher for three and a half years:

Luk 24:45 Then opened he their mind, that they might understand the scriptures; This happened the minute before Jesus ascended into heaven. He had the power to do this from the beginning, but did not choose to do it, He waited until this moment.


2) You have ASK and KNOCK before you will receive and before it will be opened unto you.

(Talking about spiritual wisdom) Mat 7:6 Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast your pearls before the swine, lest haply they trample them under their feet, and turn and rend you.
Mat 7:7 Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:

 

[Rick W]

So you're saying because I didn't ask or knock I can't understand scripture as those who do or did?

I'm not buying that. Before I was saved the bible was just a bunch of contradictions and a crutch for those too weak to think for themselves. Afterward I could read with understanding and it was a whole new world opened to me. I was like a kid in a candy store. My hair was on fire for the Lord and I totally devoured the bible. I was getting a couple "Wow!"s a day. I didn't ask, I didn't knock. I'll admit the first few times through Hebrews was a bit challenging. :D

You can use prooftexting all you want but you're not going to convince me the only way to know the bible is by asking or knocking. People get a very genuine thirst for scripture, I've heard the testimonies time and time again. I know what that thirst feels like and I didn't have to ask or knock for it.

The problem with prooftexting is it can lead one to a works related belief.

 

[Cornelius]

You can use prooftexting all you want but you're not going to convince me the only way to know the bible is by asking or knocking. .

Well, thanks for the warning then I will now leave this matter as is.Please forget about asking the Lord for revelation, that scripture must mean something else.My bad.
blessings
C