For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. Colossians 2:9
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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
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https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
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Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
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Depending upon the Holy Spirit for all you do?
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How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
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Our salvation is in Mary
- Thread starter donadams
- Start date
For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. Colossians 2:9
This is the dangers of following a religion of man and not Christ.
What you stated is blasphemy.
For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus,
1 Timothy 2:5
One mediator. Not two.
Mary has nothing to do with our salvation.
Just Jesus Christ.
Dyonisius the Areopagite
Member
Yes, it is a rejection of the special place for women, in the Lord. One would think that the verse which states that women can be "saved through childbirth" would make them stop and think.
Dyonisius the Areopagite
Member
Well put!
This quote does not come close to your explanation.
“Mary is called "The Gate of Heaven" because no one can enter Heaven but through her means.”
- because no one can enter Heaven but through her means.
This is blasphemy.
You need to be spending your effort correcting this person for their misguided statements.
Mary gave birth to the flesh and blood Man Jesus Christ.
That’s it.
She has no more role in our salvation than do her parents who gave birth to her.
There is much false teaching in the religion called Catholicism.
We who follow Jesus Christ give heed to His doctrine, not the dogmas of Catholicism.
Amen.
Jesus went to the cross for our salvation, Mary had nothing to do with that, anymore than Mary’s parents did.
I will agree that Mary is blessed.
Here is what Jesus said.
And it happened, as He spoke these things, that a certain woman from the crowd raised her voice and said to Him, “Blessed is the womb that bore You, and the breasts which nursed You!”
But He said, “More than that, blessed are those who hear the word of God and keep it!” Luke 11:27-28
If you want to be blessed even more than Mary then follow and obey what Jesus taught.
Amen.
That flesh and blood crucified on the cross is the propitiation of His sacrifice that obtains our forgiveness, mercy, grace, & salvation!
Mother of divine mercy!
Mother of divine grace!
Mother of our salvation!
Every grace granted to man in this life has three successive steps: from God it comes to Christ, from Christ to the Virgin, and from the Virgin it descends to us.
(St. Bernardine of Siena)
All graces that have ever been bestowed on men, all of them came through Mary.
(St. Anthony)
Every grace and blessing possessed by the Church, all the treasures of light, holiness, and glory that abide in her, on earth as well as in Heaven, all are due to the intercession of the Blessed Virgin Mary . . . Let us acknowledge, then, that her heart is the origin of everything noble, rich, and precious in all the holy souls who form the universal Church in Heaven and on earth. It is the source of salvation.
(St. John Eudes)
The Lord has placed in Mary the plenitude of all good, so that if any hope, or grace, or salvation is in us, we know that we derive it all from Mary.
(St. Bernard)
Among the precious objects of the Old Testament there was one thing closely associated with the Ark of the Covenant and symbolizing Our Lady in a special way.
It was a golden crown surmounting the Ark and sheltered by the wings of two adoring Cherubs. It was called the Propitiatory or the Throne of Mercy, for the glory of God appeared over it whenever He heard the prayers of His people or blessed them.
That is what Mary is in the New Law. The words of the Archangel: “The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee and the power of the Most High shall overshadow thee,” is a perfect description of what used to take place when the majesty of God descended over the Propitiatory from time to time.
But whereas the Propitiatory of the Old Law only received the passing glory of God on rare occasions, this new Propitiatory bodily enshrined the fullness of the Divinity for nine months and possessed Him spiritually at all times and in a manner surpassing the presence of God in Heaven itself.
When Solomon had installed the Propitiatory in the Temple he had built, he declared that thenceforward all who wished for graces shall go to it and no one should approach it in vain.
But God granted many graces even apart from it. But in the New Law this Propitiatory is the only and universal means of grace.
So that the most natural thing for any one to do who wishes to receive graces from God is to approach this Divine Throne of Grace.
And that was precisely what the ignorant folk of the neighbourhood and the Wise Men from far off did when not the majesty of God but His very substance appeared first on earth. Lk 2:10-16
But Mary is infinitely more than the Propitiatory. For she is not merely the throne from which God administers His mercy and grace, but she is under God the very Queen and Mistress of the whole economy of grace.
Her central position between God and creatures and her extraordinary relations with all of them demand that the whole order of grace be somehow centred round her.
St. Bernard calls her the very centre of the universe, because, he says, “to her as to the centre, as to the Altar of God, as to the cause of things, and as to the economy of the ages do they look who are in heaven and those in hell, and those who have gone before us, and those who are now, and who shall follow!”
Her all-round mediatory function is thus explained by Him: “Mary is made for all…That out of her fullness all may receive: the captive, liberation; the infirm, health; the sad, consolation; the sinner, pardon; the just, grace; the angel, joy; finally the whole Trinity, glory; and the person of the Son, human flesh: so that there is none who escapes the warmth of her rays.”
Mary’s super-effluence of grace is another unmistakable indication of her high destiny as Mediatrix of Grace.
“She is full of grace already, and how is it that she still finds grace?” asks St. Bernard, and he answers: “Indeed she deserves to find more grace, because her own grace is not sufficient for her, nor can she be satisfied with her own good….
The Holy Ghost, the Angel said, shall come upon thee and that precious ointment shall flow into thee in such copiousness and fullness that it may abundantly overflow in all directions….
With our whole heart and with all earnestness let us venerate Mary, because such is the will of Him who has decreed that we receive everything through Mary.”
But Mary’s divine Maternity has positively made her the fountain-head of grace in its entirety.
For she presented to the world the Author of Grace, Christ, and to Him the instrument of grace, His Sacred Humanity.
If, as Bossuet argues from St. Paul, “The gifts of God are without regret”, Rom 9:29 we may safely conclude that he who started the whole work of grace through Mary will not continue or complete it without her.
This is how that celebrated preacher and theologian sums up the Catholic tradition: “God willed to give us Jesus Christ through the Blessed Virgin Mary, and since God is faithful in His gifts, this order does not change. It is and always will be true that having received the universal principle of grace through her charity, we now receive, through her mediation, its various applications in all the different states of Christian life.
Having in her maternal charity contributed to our salvation through the mystery of the Incarnation, which is the universal principle of grace, Mary will contribute eternally in all other operations of grace which are necessarily dependent upon it.”
“He that spared not even His own Son, but delivered Him up for us all, how hath He not also, with Him, given us all things,” asks St. Paul.
Rom 8:32
A very compelling argument. If God gave us His Son, He cannot refuse us anything. And Saints have formulated another argument on similar lines: If God has given us His Son only through Mary, How can He give us anything else without her? If the greatest of His gifts came through her, how can His lesser gifts, which are only fruits of the first, follow another course? This simple logic of propriety alone urges us to assume that Mary is the mediatrix of all graces.
“Why is it that the mystery of the Incarnation is not realised without Mary’s consent?” asks St. Ireneus, and he answers: “Because God willed her to be the source of all graces.” Lk 1:38
St. Bernardine of Siena presented the argument in a most striking perspective when he wrote: “Since it appears that the whole divine nature, that is, His will, power, knowledge, His whole being and existence, is enclosed in the Virgin’s womb, I do not fear to say that this Virgin had a certain jurisdiction over the outflow of all graces, for from her womb, as from an ocean of divinity, flowed streams and rivers of graces….And because the Mother of the Son of God, who produced the Holy Ghost, is so exalted…all gifts, virtues, and graces of the same Holy Ghost are administered by her hands to whomsoever she desires, when, in what manner, and in what degree she wishes.”
This title of Mediatrix of Graces which belongs to Mary by reason of her central position and above all her Divine maternity, is still further enriched by her intimate co-operation in the work of Redemption as Second Eve.
For, if as Mother of God she became the general and remote source of all graces, as Second Eve she co-operated in every individual act of the Saviour so that with Him she too merited for us every item of redemptive grace. “The community of power and activity between Christ and Mary is so close and all-embracing,” wrote Scheeben, “that nowhere on earth can a perfect likeness of it be found in the co-operation of any two persons. It can be understood and valued aright only by the supernatural prototype which it has in the community of action between the Holy Ghost and the Logos, between the humanity and the divinity of Christ, as well as by the wonderful community of life between Christ and Mary before His birth. In the natural order, the co-operation and mutual influence on each other of head and heart provide the only fitting analogue. Or rather, the dynamic and mutual relation of acting and suffering existing between the head and the heart finds here its most perfect realisation in the dynamic relation of both person.”
Hence St. Germanus says to her: “There is none who is saved but through thee, O most holy One; there is none who is freed from evil but through thee, O purest One; there is none who receives a gift but through thee, O most chaste Virgin; there is no one who receives the grace of mercy but through thee, O most righteous One!”
Thks
Mary the all powerful advocate!
The Help of Christian’s!
By Her prayers and intercession!
Mary ever virgin, mother of God, is all powerful in her prayers!
Mary’s prayers are all powerful not cos she is God but because her son is God!
and on becoming man He (Jesus) obeyed his own commandments
you might check out the one that says “honor Thy father and mother”
“My hour has not come”
Jn 2
The time set by almighty God for the public ministry of Christ had not come, Jesus Christ still performed the miracle cos his mother interceded, thus a higher law, “honor thy father and mother” if ANYONE else asked it would NOT have been done! The answer was no! But He honored His mother!
and cos of her intercession the disciples believed in Him!
Jn 2:11
There is another point that Jesus is making when he says: what does it have to do with you and me? My hour hath not yet come. Indicating that when “His hour” does come Mary will have a prominent role to play. See Lk 2:35
False. Mary is not a Mediatrix.
There is one mediator and that is Jesus Christ.
For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus, 1 Timothy 2:5
Abraham.
By faith Abraham obeyed when he was called to go out to the place which he would receive as an inheritance. And he went out, not knowing where he was going. By faith he dwelt in the land of promise as in a foreign country, dwelling in tents with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise; for he waited for the city which has foundations, whose builder and maker is God. Hebrews 11:8-10
Noah.
By faith Noah, being divinely warned of things not yet seen, moved with godly fear, prepared an ark for the saving of his household, by which he condemned the world and became heir of the righteousness which is according to faith. Hebrews 11:7
Is Mary mentioned in the Hebrews hall of faith?
Everyone loves and honors Mary.
However, those who hear and do the word of God are more blessed.
And it happened, as He spoke these things, that a certain woman from the crowd raised her voice and said to Him, “Blessed is the womb that bore You, and the breasts which nursed You!”
But He said, “More than that, blessed are those who hear the word of God and keep it!” Luke 11:27-28
Dyonisius the Areopagite
Member
I am more interested in Protestants such as yourself understanding the true teaching about the Blessed Theotokos. I can agree that the terminology of the saint can be misconstrued by those without understanding. That is why I explained, in Orthodox terms, what the saint meant. What he said is not blasphemy because he does not mean that Mary is the AUTHOR of our salvation.
I am sorry, but you have no AUTHORITY to pronounce what is and is not Christian Dogma; and your above attempt is not only an usurpation of authority, but also wrong.
Mary bore the BOTH the humanity and Deity of the Second Person of the Holy Trinity, because, the Second Person of the Holy Trinity TOOK ON FLESH. He melded His Divinity with humanity and He did so in MARY'S WOMB. The Two Natures of Christ CANNOT BE SEPARATED.
That is Apostolic Dogma. You can believe whatever you want, but you have no spiritual, or moral right to claim it as Apostolic. In fact, when you do, YOU blaspheme.
See above!
There is much false teaching passing for Apostolic Doctrine in the Protestant Churches.
See above! You give heed to your own imaginary Ex Cathedra.
No offense.
You have been using strong language. I hope you can take it handed back to you.
May the Lord be with you.
I’m not a Protestant.
I have nothing to protest.
I was bought with a price, not with silver or gold but with the precious blood of Jesus.
I am a son of God, through faith in Jesus Christ.
I have all authority to call out the unfruitful works of darkness.
And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather expose them. Ephesians 5:11
The King of kings dwells in me so because of that I certainly have authority.
His people, those who are called by His name (Christian) are kings and priests.
To Him who loved us and washed us from our sins in His own blood, and has made us kings and priests to His God and Father, to Him be glory and dominion forever and ever. Amen. Revelation 1:5-6
The devils I cast out of people certainly understand and know this authority because they obey and leave.
Try it sometime and whether or not you have any authority.
JLB
Dyonisius the Areopagite
Member
Dyonisius the Areopagite
Member
All believers are Priests. That includes ME, just as well as YOU. Thus, my authority in that regard cancels out YOUR authority in that regard. Your pronouncements about what is an is not heresy have no binding authority on me, or the Church.
Apparently, you forgot the Holy Scripture which states that even non-Christians can cast out demons in the Name of the Lord.
That is unimportant though. What IS important is that you are not the definer of the Faith.
You need to realize this.
What is involved in worship? The ten commandments says not to bow before man made objects.
You yourselves have admitted in the above quote, that you Worship an object depicting Jesus.
I'm sure icons and statues started as an attempt to help people worship, but an aid to worship beco es the object of worship.