[_ Old Earth _] Pangea ?

[Barbarian]

Explain to us how those continents were moved in a century or two, from where the energy came, and how it was absorbed by the crust without boiling the seas. Calculation for the force and thermal energy produced when the continents were moved and then stopped. It doesn't add up.

 

[Lewis]

Barbarian God can do anything] Psalms 104 is the great clue. After or during the flood God pushed up earth and pulled down earth' to create water runoff, that is why you can find aquatic fossils on the top of mostly all high mountains' buried by rapid pressure from sedimentation and and the weight of water. No fossils are created today. Now God with his devine intervention caused the separation of the land. If you put to much science ito this you are going to come up with all kinds of stuff like the boiling of the seas that you keep talking about. If God greated it' He can move it. And if God wanted the land separated He make it happen without killing His earth. He knows what He is doing. I have some more good reading for you in the bottom link.
http://www.frederick.com/Evidence_of_Continental_Drift_in_the_Bible-a-811.html

 

[Barbarian]

Barbarian God can do anything] Psalms 104 is the great clue.

If you can call in non-scriptural miracles whenever you like, then all stories are equally likely. Not a sound practice for science or theology.

After or during the flood God pushed up earth and pulled down earth' to create water runoff, that is why you can find aquatic fossils on the top of mostly all high mountains' buried by rapid pressure from sedimentation and and the weight of water.

In fact, we know that this happened over tens of millions of years; the process is still going on, and we can observe and measure its rate.

No fossils are created today.

We can observe such things happening today. Fossilization is under way in many different places. Would you like to learn about them?

Now God with his devine intervention caused the separation of the land. If you put to much science ito this you are going to come up with all kinds of stuff like the boiling of the seas that you keep talking about.

As I said, all stories are equally likely if you call up miracles every time there's a problem.

And if God wanted the land separated He make it happen without killing His earth.

He did. It's just that you aren't satisfied with the way He did it.

 

[Lewis]

So Babarian' you don't believe about in the days of Peleg the earth was divided ? And you also said [calling up miracles] God sometimes uses divine intervention' He is the one who gave the earth a Make Over' so man can just bust their brains out over how He did it. But the thing is He did it, and it did not take millions of years. And there are no fossils being created today.

Barbarian wrote
He did. It's just that you aren't satisfied with the way He did it.

Yes I am' I just not satisfied by the way you said that He did it.

 

[Barbarian]

So Babarian' you don't believe about in the days of Peleg the earth was divided ?

Not unless the days of Peleg have lasted a few hundred million years. The division is still going on. Africa, for example, is being divided right now; the string of lakes along the Great Rift show the process moving along. Likewise, there is another such in the Red Sea, slowly separating Africa and Asia. And of course, the separation of North America and Africa continues at a few centimeters a year. GPS allows us to measure it.

And you also said [calling up miracles] God sometimes uses divine intervention' He is the one who gave the earth a Make Over' so man can just bust their brains out over how He did it.

Comes down to evidence. He left a lot of clues for us to learn about it.

But the thing is He did it, and it did not take millions of years.

Hundreds of millions of years.

And there are no fossils being created today.

You can go to Ireland and see it in process. In bogs, decaying plant material is slowly turning to peat. After being buried for a long, long time, peat becomes bituminous coal. After more time and burial, it becomes anthracite coal. And yes, with fossils of the plants that made it up.

There are polystrate tree fossils forming in a lake that was flooded years ago. The trees are being slowly buried by sediment, and will eventually be fossilized, if the process continues.

Diatoms continue to build up limestone in shallow seas, and animals that die and fall to the bottom are often entrapped and fossilized.

Just a few of the ongoing processes.

 

[turnorburn]

Say Lewis grab a copy of this video "Cataclysm From Space 2800 BC" and you'll soon see why Barbarian and those of the same opinion won't watch it, It completely destroys the doctrine of evolution and would shatter that false religion to smithereens..

http://realityzone.com/catfromspac.html

tob

 

[Barbarian]

Say Lewis grab a copy of this video "Cataclysm From Space 2800 BC" and you'll soon see why Barbarian and those of the same opinion won't watch it, It completely destroys the doctrine of evolution and would shatter that false religion to smithereens..

You're telling us that it's a half-hour of something that will shatter science, but apparently, there's not one thing in it that can be presented here.

So, I'm guessing that it's the usual propaganda. If I'm wrong, perhaps you could show us some facts from the video that would make it worth a half an hour of time.

But I doubt if that will happen. (Barbarian checks)

Ah, a reworking of Immanuel Velekovski's old story of "Worlds in Collision". Here's an endorsement by a catastrophe buff from Amazon.com:

This video presents evidence that, less than 5000 years ago, a stray planet from deep space, along with its tiny moon of ice, nearly collided with Earth. An analysis is made of the gravitational forces that would have flexed the Earth’s crust, creating volcanic ruptures, mountain ranges and driving oceanic tides to such heights as to cover almost all of the Earth’s land surface.
Human survivors, indeed, would have been few, and countless species of magnificent "prehistoric" animals would have perished, not due to failure to adapt, as is commonly claimed, but simply because they failed to find high ground.

It would be difficult to enter into an informed discussion on such topics as Earth History, the Biblical Flood, Evolution, or Creation itself without knowledge of the facts and theories presented in this program.

 

[Lewis]

Turnorburn wrote
Say Lewis grab a copy of this video "Cataclysm From Space 2800 BC" and you'll soon see why Barbarian and those of the same opinion won't watch it, It completely destroys the doctrine of evolution and would shatter that false religion to smithereens..

http://realityzone.com/catfromspac.html

I need to check that out, because I just love it when evolutionist are made to shut up after picking their jaw up off of the floor.

 

[turnorburn]

That teacher looked at me shook his head then said he'd love to show it to his classroom but was afraid he'd lose his job. Everyone else said it was like a breath of fresh air, not once in all the years of sharing it get a negative review from those that saw it..

tob

 

[turnorburn]

I'd say your being willfully ignorant Barbarian but its probably against the tos..

tob

 

[Barbarian]

I did some research on the story. It's a recycling of Immanuel Velikovsky's "Worlds in Collision" scam, with a few Bible verses tossed in to make it seem "Christian."

Check this out:

Velikovsky arrived at these proposals using a methodology which would today be called comparative mythology - he looked for concordances in myths and written history of unconnected cultures across the world, following a literal reading of their accounts of the exploits of planetary deities. In this book, he argues on the basis of ancient cosmological myths from places as disparate as India and China, Greece and Rome, Assyria and Sumer. For example, ancient Greek mythology asserts that the goddess Athena sprang from the head of Zeus. Velikovsky identifies Zeus (whose Roman counterpart was the god Jupiter) with the planet Jupiter. Velikovsky identifies Athena (the Roman Minerva) with the planet Venus. This myth, along with others from ancient Egypt, Israel, Mexico, etc. are used to support the claim that "Venus was expelled as a comet and then changed to a planet after contact with a number of members of our solar system" (Velikovsky 1972:182). –...The fundamental criticism against this book from the astronomy community was that its celestial mechanics were irreconcilable with Newtonian celestial mechanics, requiring planetary orbits which could not be made to conform to the laws of conservation of energy and conservation of angular momentum (Bauer 1984:70). Velikovsky conceded that the behavior of the planets in his theories is not consistent with Newton's laws of motion and universal gravitation. He proposed that electromagnetic forces could be the cause of the movement of the planets, although such forces between astronomical bodies are essentially zero (Friedlander 1995:11-12).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Worlds_in_Collision

This is why no one will present any of the ideas in the video here. They want to you spend an hour (not a half hour) watching it. The last thing they want is an open discussion of the claims of the video. So you won't be seeing those until I have an hour to waste, listing them.

 

[Barbarian]

I've done some research. This is Velikovsky's old "World in Collisions" story, with some Bible verses tossed in to make it look Christian.

In the book's preface, Velikovsky summarized his arguments:

Worlds in Collision is a book of wars in the celestial sphere that took place in historical times. In these wars the planet Earth participated too. [...] The historical-cosmological story of this book is based in the evidence of historical texts of many people around the globe, on classical literature, on epics of the northern races, on sacred books of the peoples of the Orient and Occident, on traditions and folklore of primitive peoples, on old astronomical inscriptions and charts, on archaeological finds, and also on geological and paleontological material.

The book proposed that around the 15th century BCE, Venus was ejected from Jupiter as a comet or comet-like object, passed near Earth (an actual collision is not mentioned). The object changed Earth's orbit and axial inclination, causing innumerable catastrophes which were mentioned in early mythologies and religions around the world. Fifty-two years later, it passed close by again, stopping the Earth's rotation for a while and causing more catastrophes. Then, in the 8th and 7th centuries BCE, Mars (itself displaced by Venus) made close approaches to the Earth; this incident caused a new round of disturbances and disasters. After that, the current "celestial order" was established. The courses of the planets stabilized over the centuries and Venus gradually became a "normal" planet...The fundamental criticism against this book from the astronomy community was that its celestial mechanics were irreconcilable with Newtonian celestial mechanics, requiring planetary orbits which could not be made to conform to the laws of conservation of energy and conservation of angular momentum (Bauer 1984:70).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Worlds_in_Collision
What if there was a connection between The Great Flood and the Ice Age? Geographer-turned-minister, Donald W. Patten, came to believe that was the case and presents his hypothesis in detail. Like Velikovsky and the Electric Universe group, Patten believes that earth changes occur rapidly and dramatically.
http://www.scribd.com/doc/15782993/The-Biblical-Flood-and-the-Ice-Epoch

If you want to read the story, you can find it at the last link, although you have to pay to see it. You can get the same effect by finding an old copy of Velikovsky's "Worlds in Collision" and tossing in a random Bible verse every page or so.

 

[Lewis]

Worlds in Collision: Immanuel Velikovsky

 

[Barbarian]

 

[turnorburn]

Your researching everything but the book Cataclysm From Space 2800 BC

Neat cuckoo clock icon you got there now stop acting like one and read the book..

tob


*edit: i mean watch the video

 

[Barbarian]

Sorry, it's just Velikovsky's ideas with a few random Bible verses tossed in. Nothing to see. Of course, if you disagree, feel free to show us.

 

[Barbarian]

Sorry, it's just Velikovsky's fantasies, with a few random Bible verses tossed in. If you disagree, feel free to show us anything else that's in the video.

 

[turnorburn]

Not a good enough "fantasy" not hardly.. watch the video and then make these statements..:yes

tob

 

[Barbarian]

Sorry. Already read these stories. And I have to admit that they seemed pretty solid to me, back then.

But I was eleven years old at the time.

Not long ago, Venus emerged from Jupiter, like Athena from the brow of Zeus—literally! It then assumed the form and orbit of a comet. In 1500 B.C., at the time of the Jewish exodus from Egypt, the earth passed twice through Venus's tail, bringing both blessing and chaos; manna from heaven (or rather from hydrocarbons of a cometary tail) and the bloody rivers of the Mosaic plagues (iron from the same tail). Continuing its erratic course, Venus collided with (or nearly brushed) Mars, lost its tail, and hurtled to its present orbit. Mars then left its regular position and almost collided with the earth in about 700 B.C. So great were the terrors of these times, and so ardent our collective desire to forget them, that they have been erased from our conscious minds. Yet they lurk in our inherited and unconscious memory, causing fear, neurosis, aggression, and their social manifestations as war.


This may sound like a script of a very poor, late-late movie on TV; nonetheless, it represents the serious theory of Immanuel Velikovsky's Worlds in Collision. And Velikovsky is neither crank nor charlatan—although to state my opinion and to quote one of my colleagues, he is at least gloriously wrong...Secondly, Velikovsky is well aware that the laws of Newton's universe, where forces of gravitation rule the motion of large objects, will not allow planets to wander. Thus, he proposes a fundamentally new physics of electromagnetic forces for large bodies. In short, Velikovsky would rebuild the science of celestial mechanics to save the literal accuracy of ancient legends.
Stephen Jay Gould, Velikovsky in Collision

 

[Freezer]

The evolution position

If the evolutionary view is correct, it raises some interesting questions. How did people get here (North America, Australia, Japan, Samoa, the Caribbean, Hawaii, etc) if they evolved after the split? People did not evolve until 2 million years ago (I have heard several estimates, none later than that). No one suggests that we all evolved separately and simultaneously since that idea would be extreme even to an evolutionist. They didn’t sail to those places. The explanation I had always been taught was that they walked to those places. How did they walk if oceans and seas surround the continents? People supposedly crossed the Bering Straight land bridge 15,000 years ago. The water there is a minimum of 50 feet deep. They say the ice age caused the ocean levels to drop since the water was frozen and on top of the continents, thus exposing dry land for people and animals to walk across. Sounds logical enough until you examine the details more closely (something we don’t often do). Doing the math yielded some interesting results. A 50 foot drop in the oceans would fill 1117 Lake Michigans! That would equal 1,318,248 cubic miles of water. The volume would increase by 8.7% when it is frozen resulting in 1,432,935 cubic miles of ice. That much ice would cover all dry land on earth with 130 feet of ice! Since the ice age was a northern hemisphere phenomenon, there would be about 200 feet of ice covering our world here in Wisconsin. I find that hard to believe. What natural phenomenon would cause that much ice to cover everything? The July sun would never allow it.

Just to adress this, here in Norway we had glaciers that covered the country up to 10.000 feet thick. Not saying it was like that everywhere, but I certainly wouldn't find the amount of ice implausible. Even today, our country grows several millmeters a year because of the ice age.