Paradigm Shifts, Science, and Revisionist History

[coffeeelover]

can you elaborate for me on this "reflections on the waters of the firmanet" I have never heard of this. And from where to get the knowledge of some giant ice crystal the size of the pacific? Im not talking down to you when I ask this, I honestly want to know.

As far the earth being the ceter of the universe - I think the catholic church still holds this view too, and I think they have offered a monetary reward for anyone who can prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that the earth is not the center - i may be wrong though.

I also saw a show on this where a astral-physisyst said that mathmaticly it is possible to say the earth is at the center, however it is widly beleived by the scientific community that it is not - based on einsteins theories of realativity and that our sun has a stronger gravitational pull than the earth - therefore the earth would be caught up by the sun rather than vice versa.

You are indeed wrong about the Catholic Church still preaching that the earth is the center of the universe. No one actually believes that anymore. Especially since we have sent space probes out that proves the Sun is the center of the solar system and our solar system is not the center of our galaxy.

 

[Pard]

MA,

I am curious about crystals that make with the reflecting also.

As for the center thing, I'd say we are center of the universe to at least some degree. We are the center of God's universe, right? We are His creation, created in His likeness. A child is the center of a parent's world, I figure it would be the same way for God and His children.

 

[Strangelove]

can you elaborate for me on this "reflections on the waters of the firmanet" I have never heard of this.

I'd love to Mujahid my friend. It's a fascinating study>>>

Waters "Above" the Firmament

Genesis
1:6 And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters,
and let it divide the waters from the waters.
1:7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were
under the firmament from the waters which were above the
firmament: and it was so.

Ok. So…..call me old fashioned but….I like to take God at His word. If He says there are waters above the firmament then who am I to argue with Him? There is water up there. Seeing as “above the firmament” can only mean in every direction…..then that tells me that He is talking about a 360 degree layering of water all the way around the shell that comprises our celestial sphere containing the known universe.

Now…..we know that water can exist in 3 forms. Liquid, solid, vapour. When we talk about solid….there are differing levels of solidity. Snow…slush….ice….etc…..and also CRYSTAL. When I imagine water up there in space, I happen to see it up there in crystal form because it is the most likely form that I think water can exist up there. It just seems the most logical. For me it’s just common sense. I mean….water is water is water. It can be in crystal form and still fit the Biblical model so I’m going with that.

Above::::Example of an enhydros crystal.

Add to that the fact that the reflections are always constant every time you look up there. Liquid water is always moving so doesn’t fit the model. Solid crystal structures make much more sense because they would give constant and unchanging reflections.

So we have a layer of water, probably in crystal form….literally attached to the shell like dome that encompasses the universe. One can ascribe whatever size one wants to these crystals….maybe they are tiny and numerous. Maybe they are huge and few. Who knows? I like to think of them as big because it fits the effects that we actually see with regard to reflections better.

So imagine we are looking through a massive telescope….like Hubble….at some lights in the sky. I put it to you that this would be like looking through a microscope at a tiny point of light EXCEPT the bottom of the Petri dish is lined with a layer of HIGHLY reflective water crystals. The potential for reflection is not only likely but INESCAPABLE. You would expect nothing less than millions of rays of reflective light given off in numerous directions!

So when NASA are done touching up, compositing and adding colours to shots like like this::::::

You need to think to yourself….how many of these points of light are ACTUALLY real stars…and how many are simply reflections of stars shooting back off the waters above. NASA and modern theoretical "Science falsely so called" say these are real suns / planets /nubulas / galaxies etc etc. I say they are reflections off the giant water crystals that God hammered into the underside of the dome which encapsulates our universe.

Just my take of course.

:::::::::::: Doc.

 

[Strangelove]

......we have sent space probes out that proves the Sun is the center of the solar system and our solar system is not the center of our galaxy.

Coffee. That is simply not true. Space pobes have proved nothing of the sort. Can I remind you that we have yet to send any kind of probe out of our solar system LET ALONE out of our galaxy so how could we possibly know what is the centre?

You leave yourself open to deception if you believe anything that comes out of NASA. What happens when they send back images of little green men waving at you from Mars? Are you going to believe them?........Coffee?

Hey look! Heres one of the latest "Mars Probe" photos. They've found trees on Mars!

Look at this "photo" and tell me it doesnt look like a 9 year old knocked it up on Windows Paint...in his lunchbreak.

And yes.....the moon landings were faked. People have known about this for decades.

NASA and the entire theoretical science establishment have been trying to play us like fiddles for AGES!!! Isn't it obvious!

....somehow this thing passed through The VAN ALLEN BELT without being fried!

IT LOOKS LIKE A PILE OF JUNK!!

This is meant to be a shot of it flying over the moons surface. no flames, no propulsion. this shot was supposedly taken ON THE MOON. Duh!! ..what do they take us for honestly? Well....maybe in the 60's...Lolz.

..the thing is in the Smithsonian (i think that's where it is). though people aren't allowed to approach it, folks have made scale models of it and found that a freemason...um....i mean astronaut in full gear can't fit through the hatch!

 

[Pard]

I agree MA, I'd rather be wrong and not offend God, than be wrong and offend Him. I mean if you offend Him He will still love you, but... well it's best if He is happy (flashes to a picture of Sodom...)!

I tend to agree that the earth is the center of the universe, as I said before. I know of the firmament, but that makes it a bit more clear. I'm curious how far away it is... But I do think the moon landing did happen, I have participated in shooting a laser at the moon and having it bounce back down, reflecting off the mirror that they left on it.

 

[coffeeelover]

I agree MA, I'd rather be wrong and not offend God, than be wrong and offend Him. I mean if you offend Him He will still love you, but... well it's best if He is happy (flashes to a picture of Sodom...)!

I tend to agree that the earth is the center of the universe, as I said before. I know of the firmament, but that makes it a bit more clear. I'm curious how far away it is... But I do think the moon landing did happen, I have participated in shooting a laser at the moon and having it bounce back down, reflecting off the mirror that they left on it.

God won't be mad cause acknowledge the obvious truth. If he is then he is a mean evil spirit and I won't be afraid to tell it so.

 

[jasoncran]

pard, you do err, that darwin was a christian at the time he wrote the origin of the species, in his OWN diary he stated he doubted the idea of the biblical god before he went to the galapgos.


yes, i can and have the seen the anti-christian bia in history books for yrs. ironically the the jw's and the school system that had older less hostile books enabled me to see it even more now.

the jws acknowledge the christian influence the founding fathers(they dont call them christians though)

 

[Strangelove]

ok. Well none of that makes any sense to me but you gotta beleive what you gotta believe.

Um....I went to some effort to explain the theory at your specific request. You dismiss it in one sentence with no explanation? You can at least give me the common courtesy of saying WHY it doesnt make any sense>>>>


Doc.

 

[Strangelove]

But I do think the moon landing did happen, I have participated in shooting a laser at the moon and having it bounce back down, reflecting off the mirror that they left on it.

Plz Pard....Brother.....if I may::::

The only thing that proves is that man is capable of programming computer software to give a spike on a graph.

Pard,,,,we have Hubble that can see "galaxies" billions of light years away. We have sattelites that can read a number plate of a car from space. Plz show me a picture of the mirrors on the moon. Maybe the USA flag?

 

[jasoncran]

light does reflect of of any object and we have laser range finders in the army that are acurate.
we all know that light reflects of of anything, some things better then others.

 

[jasoncran]

look, i know that earth moves and isnt still by this. i have guide arty pieces onto objects and watch them blow up! those calculations take in account the movement of the earth on its axis.

strangelove, where do you get that from? i am yec'r and do believe the idea of of orbital planes and also the movement of planets and stars.

 

[Strangelove]

look, i know that earth moves and isnt still by this. i have guide arty pieces onto objects and watch them blow up! those calculations take in account the movement of the earth on its axis.

strangelove, where do you get that from? i am yec'r and do believe the idea of of orbital planes and also the movement of planets and stars.

Hi Jason, Nice to meet you dude.

I think there may have been a couple of typo's in your post but if I understand you correctly your talking about the Coreolis effect and the fact you have to take this into account if you are directing military ordinance onto its target? Is that right?

The Heliocentric explanation is that its the Earth spinning on its axis that causes the effect.

The Geocentric explanation is that the movement of the Heavens and planets / stars around our Earth causes the effect. This is provable by experiment by the way.

Its the same thing that explains away Foucaults Pendulum.

Regards


:::::::::: Doc.

 

[jasoncran]

ok, but then how does geocentrism deal with the idea of lunar cycles influences.

and then theres jupiter which is far bigger and the sun that have massive gravitiational pulls.

the earth is small compared to these and yet it somehow causes them to orbit itself.

even in heliocentricity the sun rotates on its axis and also the sun moves within the milkway as is affected by other stars. we found the the planet uranus by observing the wobble of jupiter.

the moon has 1/6 gravitional pull of the earth, yet some how it orbits the earth, but with the more massive sun and planets in outer sol system they too must orbit the earth?

 

[Strangelove]

ok, but then how does geocentrism deal with the idea of lunar cycles influences.

The moon orbits the Earth in Geocentric model same as it does in Heliocentric. It deals with the idea of lunar cycles same as Helio model does. No difference.

and then theres jupiter which is far bigger and the sun that have massive gravitiational pulls.

the earth is small compared to these and yet it somehow causes them to orbit itself.

the moon has 1/6 gravitional pull of the earth, yet some how it orbits the earth, but with the more massive sun and planets in outer sol system they too must orbit the earth?

Ok....when you talk about gravity you need to realise something. Gravity is just a word that describes heavyness. Thats all. It's got nothing to do with describing orbits. Nothing at all. The apple didnt fall off the tree and revolve around Newtons head>>>>it just fell straight down. In a straight line.

Newtons laws of planetary motion is simply musings. Its totally theoretical. He himself admitted that all his ideas were nothing more than that as you can see by the quotes I posted earlier in this thread.

If gravity had anything to do with real life orbits then why doesnt the Earth just fall straight into the Sun>?

There is a force at work in our universe that is infinately more powerful than gravity...and that is.....(**drumroll**)........GOD! No.....joke.....It's ELECTROMAGNETISM. This is the force that holds planets and stars in the set paths that God gave them.

Doc >>>> Out.....

 

[jasoncran]

ok, em energy has nothing to do with gravity as if that was the case we should have a serious effects from jupiter as its magnetic field hits the earth, yet the tides arent affected

orbits can be held by a planet and or object if sufficent energy is maintained, ie the shuttle falls toward the earth, yet never hits because of the curvature of the earth.eventually without the engines to fire a corrective thrust the shuttle orbit decays, even satelites decay eventually when they run out of power to correct their orbits.

the moon has no magnetic field, btw nor does mars. only planets with iron cores posses magnetic fields.

and you also forget one thing, motion in space causes gravity.

when the shuttle is in motion theres some small amount of gravity.

 

[jasoncran]

electromagentism is made by when the coil of wire is coiled or when its placed over a iron core. the car starter uses these. the older one used magnets to make the field necessary for the commutator to spin, wheres the newer ones used electromagnets to make the field, the arent magnets when theres no power to them. they become magnets when power is supplied to them.

name on electromagnet that is a real natural occuring one.

and we get power from the reverse of using a commuter to move in a magnetic field to generate an electric current, (eddy current).

 

[jasoncran]

gravity itself is theoritical then. as the its call the theory of gravity last time i looked.


the same can be said of the cells(cell theory), germs(germ theory)
and also a host of other things. such has electricity itself
the theory of ELECTROMAGNETISCM is the theory for the movement of electrons.
and no they dont go from positive to negative in a car, but negative to positive, but they can go the the other way.

welders can do that, and so does the ac current.

 

[Strangelove]

Sorry.....are you relating these things to proving a moving Earth Jason?

If so.....how?

Doc :::::::::

 

[Pard]

Just an observation, I truly have no view on this topic at the current time.

It is impossible to claim that the earth is not the center of the universe as no one knows the boundaries of the universe. Just because the sun is the center of our solar system does not mean the earth can not be the center of the universe. Such a claim is thrown out with the hope that the other person will back down, but it is ridiculous means of proving anything about the center of the universe.

If you allow that earth cannot be spinning, I think it is still possible to have to make corrections for spin. We may perceive the world as spinning, but it could very well just be the atmosphere around us is spinning.

Why couldn't the earth be spinning, even if it is the center of the universe? It seems to me that the spinning of earth has nothing to do with where God located it within the universe.

And SL, You aim a very powerful laser at a mirror on the moon and the laser will come back to you after a little time. It is used to measure the distances from the earth to the moon. You can do it at home if you have the right rig, and my next door neighbor happened to have just the right rig to do so.

 

[Strangelove]

Why couldn't the earth be spinning, even if it is the center of the universe?

If the Earth was spinning::::

1) We would be able to fly directly up in a helicopter, wait an hour, then descend in a straight line and we would be 1000 miles away from where we took off.

2) There could be no life on Earth cos of the unimaginable G forces.

3) It would contradict the Bible.