Paul And The Final Gospel

[Nathan]

The spirit is not alive?....you have scripture to support that, right?.....like when does it become alive?....who it becomes alive in and under what circumstances/conditions?....

When Paul states when we were dead in our sins Christ died for us, does he speak of physical?

 

[Free]

The repentance scriptures you quote are for believers, not sinners, you're mixing scripture.
We have a difference of interpretation , no need to attack.

Act 17:30 The times of ignorance God overlooked, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent, (ESV)

Paul speaking to he Athenians at the Areopagus; most certainly not believers.

Act 26:19 "Therefore, O King Agrippa, I was not disobedient to the heavenly vision,
Act 26:20 but declared first to those in Damascus, then in Jerusalem and throughout all the region of Judea, and also to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, performing deeds in keeping with their repentance. (ESV)

Again, this is Paul, clearly speaking to non-believers.

There has only ever been one Gospel and both Peter and Paul preached it, along with the rest of the Apostles and early church. And that is consistent with what Jesus taught.

 

[Free]

I don't know that I would go that far but what I did say and thought I had worded it precisely is that they did not have the books to study one another's writings. I don't understand why you would attempt to add to what I said though.

edit: Reading back I see I did not record all I was thinking. But I find nowhere that God was inspiring their writings or that they were writing before His death and Paul and Luke certainly were not.

Again, it sounds like you're saying that the writings of the NT are not inspired. Is that what you're saying?

 

[civilwarbuff]

Thanks, but maybe I didn't word my question clearly? Maybe I can ask in a different way.

Why does Jesus differentiate between sinners and righteous if they are one in the same?

Luke 18
19 And Jesus said unto him, Why call me good? none is good, except one, that is, God.
We can't even meet the low standard of good let alone righteous......
Romans 3
10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
11 There is none that understands, there is none that seeks after God.
12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that does good, no, not one.
Ecclesiastes 7
20 For there is not a just man upon earth, that does good, and sins not.
Jesus is telling people if they think they are righteous and have nothing to repent of then they don't need Him; He is after those that acknowledge they are sinners. But as scripture shows there is none righteous. I thought that would have been apparent......
Luke 5
27 And after these things he went forth, and saw a tax collector, named Levi, sitting at the tax office: and he said unto him, Follow me.
28 And he left all, rose up, and followed him.
29 And Levi made himself a great feast in his own house: and there was a great company of tax collectors and of others that sat down with them.
30 But their scribes and Pharisees murmured against his disciples, saying, Why do you eat and drink with tax collectors and sinners?
31 And Jesus answering said unto them, They that are whole need not a physician; but they that are sick.
32 I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.
Again, the scribes and Pharisees, who think of themselves righteous demonstrate that none are righteous and, in fact, are sinners. All KJ2000

 

[Nathan]

Two views. Our view and Gods view.

I, for one, am grateful God does not look at me as I see myself.

Repentance is the dividing line. We have to see repentance how God does. Too often we view it as we want it to be.

 

[civilwarbuff]

When Paul states when we were dead in our sins Christ died for us, does he speak of physical?

If the soul is not alive there should be no fear of God as you cannot punish something that is dead. Not everything written in scripture is taken as litteral........To have a dead soul is meant to be separated from God which was all mankind until the resurrection.

 

[Soul man]

repentance is for everyone sinner and saint alike.....there is no difference.....we are all sinners.....Romans 3:23

Not the born again, they sin and repent but it's a mind thing now not spirit.
Sinners are sinners by nature, born again no longer have a sin nature.
Time and time again we are urged to renew our mind, why? Because that is where it's all at now. We are perfect in spirit,
1 Cor. 6:17
17 he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit.

Col. 2:10
10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power.

1John 3:8-9
8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

 

[th1b.taylor]

Again, it sounds like you're saying that the writings of the NT are not inspired. Is that what you're saying?

Free, I answered you that you are readinng into my statement what is not there so why are you inserting what is not there? In simple terms, no!

 

[Soul man]

Act 17:30 The times of ignorance God overlooked, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent, (ESV)

Paul speaking to he Athenians at the Areopagus; most certainly not believers.

Act 26:19 "Therefore, O King Agrippa, I was not disobedient to the heavenly vision,
Act 26:20 but declared first to those in Damascus, then in Jerusalem and throughout all the region of Judea, and also to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, performing deeds in keeping with their repentance. (ESV)

Again, this is Paul, clearly speaking to non-believers.

There has only ever been one Gospel and both Peter and Paul preached it, along with the rest of the Apostles and early church. And that is consistent with what Jesus taught.

When I talk about Pauls revelation, I'm not talking about his conversion.
Gal. 1:11-12
11 But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.

12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.

Gal. 1:15-16
15 But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace,

16 To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood:

Scriptures you quote are before his revelation. After Pauls revelation you will not find where he tells the sinner to repent. I'm not preaching against it most of us come to God based on repenting and being baptized, I know I did.
Paul came to a point where he would not baptize anyone.
I'm saying it is not scriptural in the age of pure grace now.
To me that is why Paul is so important to the born again, we get sound doctrine.

Eph. 3:1-9

3 For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles,

2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:

3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,

4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)

5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;

6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:

7 Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power.

8 Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ;

9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:

 

[Nathan]

If the soul is not alive there should be no fear of God as you cannot punish something that is dead. Not everything written in scripture is taken as litteral........To have a dead soul is meant to be separated from God which was all mankind until the resurrection.

I will not argue interpretation of words. That always leads to more confusion.

I agree that many things written down are not literal. But dead is dead. I highly doubt, with the expansive Greek language, that they could not explain separation vs something not living.

If you choose to interpret something other than what it says, where does that stop? I believe its a slippery slope that has lead us to the point we are at today.

 

[JLB]

Some believers get upset when I speak of the final Gospel. In fact many, upon a casual look, are sure the term final Gospel has something to do with prophecy and John's end time revelation. This is far from the truth. The final gospel is concerned very little or none at all with prophecy. Almost all Bible prophecy is primarily concerned with Israel. John's revelation deals with the things that are predicted in the Old Testament and are spoken by Jesus of Nazareth, and simply fulfilled and completed in the book of Revelation.

There is no new gospel to be found there. The final Gospel has one important purpose, and that is to tell the message and story of what happens to the people who are saved by the death of Christ on the cross. This is a new group of people, with a new purpose and a new message centered in God's eternal plan. Well most of the Bible deals with people who serve God under the law, the final gospel deals with people saved by grace. This is a new group of people who have been treated differently from any people God had ever dealt with.

They are a people God had in his mind before he created the world. They are special for several reasons.

1) these people, as God's own offspring, we're destined to become the people who would fill the Father's house. His house was greatly depleted by the ouster of Lucifer and the many angels that went with him when God had to put them out because of his disobedience.

2) from that time onward, God saw that the only one who pleased him was his only begotten Son, Jesus Christ, and if God was to have a family in His house they would all have to have the Christ life. It was this idea that the whole plan of God would hinge upon, Ephesians 1:4.
According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

A time would come when he would take the already created people and bring them to see their need of having to do something to change their miserable lives. They had done the same things that Lucifer had done, after 4000 years of God trying to change them from things that had displeased Him sent His Son to the earth to help them. The earthly people rejected his Son and God knew that to get humanity to a point where they were "like Jesus" was not going to be possible.

3) it was at this point that God knew humans would never live and be like His Son Jesus. His alternative at this point was that supreme act of God. He would have to take the already created humans and rebirth them himself. At the moment of greatest need in their life, when they could not save themselves, he would place his own sperm-seed in them and create a new life for them, not a life just like Jesus, but as Jesus.

4) these new creation people would have no earthly link, they would have no earthly father anymore. They would be those who would live in His house and love and serve Him faithfully because they were His bonafide offspring. These people are special to God and have a special gospel dealing with their life on earth. This is the final gospel, a gospel that is recorded in the Bible only by the apostle Paul.

Sounds like Calvinism repackaged to me.


Could you post the scripture for this final Gospel.

• Here is the Gospel that Jesus preached:

Now after John was put in prison, Jesus came to Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God, and saying, “The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand. Repent, and believe in the gospel.” Mark 1:14-15

• Here Peter is also preaching what he was taught by Jesus.

Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. Acts 2:38

• Repent is the command of the Gospel.
• Repent means to turn to God.

If you are called to turn to God, then by default you are called to turn from Satan as your lord.

The way that your express this obedience of faith, concerning the Gospel is to confess Jesus as Lord.

This is what grants the believer/obeyer of the Gospel, the forgiveness of sins.


Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. Acts 2:38

• This is plainly what the Lord Jesus Christ taught to and commissioned Paul to do.

15 So I said, ‘Who are You, Lord?’ And He said, ‘I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting. 16 But rise and stand on your feet; for I have appeared to you for this purpose, to make you a minister and a witness both of the things which you have seen and of the things which I will yet reveal to you. 17 I will deliver you from the Jewish people, as well as from the Gentiles, to whom I now send you, 18 to open their eyes, in order to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who are sanctified by faith in Me.’ Acts 26:15-18
Repent is about being transferred from the kingdom of darkness to the kingdom of God.

It's about changing who you serve, as your Lord.

The Gospel of the kingdom is about changing the kingdom your are in, by changing the lord you serve; by exchanging Satan as your lord, for Jesus Christ as your Lord.



JLB

 

[Nathan]

I think I figured out what the confusion is. I differentiate between Soul and Spirit. It seems you may not? I know others who do not differentiate between them, as in they are the same just different words used.

The Soul, the part of us which repents, is what is seperated from God. The Spirit - it is plain dead. lol

 

[Nathan]

Sounds like Calvinism repackaged to me.

Bingo :yes

 

[JLB]

The Soul, the part of us which repents, is what is seperated from God. The Spirit - it is plain dead. lol

Good analogy.



JLB

 

[Free]

When I talk about Pauls revelation, I'm not talking about his conversion.
Gal. 1:11-12
11 But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.

12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.

Gal. 1:15-16
15 But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace,

16 To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood:

Scriptures you quote are before his revelation. After Pauls revelation you will not find where he tells the sinner to repent.

First things first. When do you think Paul received his revelation? And what specifically is this revelation?

 

[Free]

Again, it sounds like you're saying that the writings of the NT are not inspired. Is that what you're saying?

Free, I answered you that you are readinng into my statement what is not there so why are you inserting what is not there? In simple terms, no!

You may have said that I am reading into what you have said but how else am I supposed to understand this statement of yours: "But I find nowhere that God was inspiring their writings"?

 

[civilwarbuff]

Not the born again, they sin and repent but it's a mind thing now not spirit.

scripture for that please.....

 

[civilwarbuff]

I think I figured out what the confusion is. I differentiate between Soul and Spirit. It seems you may not? I know others who do not differentiate between them, as in they are the same just different words used.

The Soul, the part of us which repents, is what is seperated from God. The Spirit - it is plain dead. lol

Where does scripture say they are different?

 

[Nathan]

Where does scripture say they are different?

Where does it say they are the same?

However, to answer directly - 1 Thessalonians 5:23

 

[civilwarbuff]

Where does it say they are the same?

However, to answer directly - 1 Thessalonians 5:23

Nope, not different.....at least as used in 1 Thess 5:23

Spirit (Thayer/Strong)
G4151
Original: πνεῦμα

Transliteration: pneuma

Phonetic: pnyoo'-mah

Thayer Definition:

1. the third person of the triune God, the Holy Spirit, coequal, coeternal with the Father and the Son
   1. sometimes referred to in a way which emphasises his personality and character (the Spirit)
   2. sometimes referred to in a way which emphasises his work and power (the Spirit of 1c) never referred to as a depersonalised force
2. the spirit, i.e. the vital principal by which the body is animated
   1. the rational spirit, the power by which the human being feels, thinks, decides
   2. the soul
3. a spirit, i.e. a simple essence, devoid of all or at least all grosser matter, and possessed of the power of knowing, desiring, deciding, and acting
   1. a life giving spirit
   2. a human soul that has left the body
   3. a spirit higher than man but lower than God, i.e. an angel
      1. used of demons, or evil spirits, who were conceived as inhabiting the bodies of men
      2. the spiritual nature of Christ, higher than the highest angels and equal to God, the divine nature of Christ
4. the disposition or influence which fills and governs the soul of any one
   1. the efficient source of any power, affection, emotion, desire, etc.
5. a movement of air (a gentle blast)
   1. of the wind, hence the wind itself
   2. breath of nostrils or mouth

Origin: from G4154

TDNT entry: 11:32,9

Part(s) of speech: Noun Neuter

Strong's Definition: From G4154; a current of air, that is, breath (blast) or a breeze ; by analogy or figuratively a spirit, that is, (human) the rational soul, (by implication) vital principle, mental disposition, etc., or (superhuman) an angel, daemon, or (divine) God, Christ's spirit, the Holy spirit : - ghost, life, spirit (-ual, -ually), mind. Compare G5590.

Soul (Thayer/Strong)
G5590
Original: ψυχή

Transliteration: psuchē

Phonetic: psoo-khay'

Thayer Definition:

1. breath
   1. the breath of life
      1. the vital force which animates the body and shows itself in breathing
         1. of animals
         2. of men
   2. life
   3. that in which there is life
      1. a living being, a living soul
2. the soul
   1. the seat of the feelings, desires, affections, aversions (our heart, soul etc.)
   2. the (human) soul in so far as it is constituted that by the right use of the aids offered it by God it can attain its highest end and secure eternal blessedness, the soul regarded as a moral being designed for everlasting life
   3. the soul as an essence which differs from the body and is not dissolved by death (distinguished from other parts of the body)

Origin: from G5594

TDNT entry: 19:08,1

Part(s) of speech: Noun Feminine

Strong's Definition: From G5594; breath, that is, (by implication) spirit, abstractly or concretely (the animal sentient principle only; thus distinguished on the one hand from G4151, which is the rational and immortal soul ; and on the other from G2222, which is mere vitality, even of plants: these terms thus exactly correspond respectively to the Hebrew [H5315], [H7307] and [H2416]: - heart (+ -ily), life, mind, soul, + us, + you.