Paul And The Final Gospel

[Jim Parker]

I might be wrong, but last time I brought it up not many thought that way.

Maybe they've all gotten their GEDs since then.

 

[Nathan]

Maybe they've all gotten their GEDs since then.

So most of the people you talk with do believe the same thing?

 

[Jim Parker]

So most of the people you talk with do believe the same thing?

I have yet to meet a Christian who thought it might be a good idea to repent from believing in Jesus or from doing good to starrt doing evil.
Have you?

 

[Nathan]

I have yet to meet a Christian who thought it might be a good idea to repent from believing in Jesus or from doing good to starrt doing evil.
Have you?

Loaded question. Maybe a miscommunication on my part.

Simply put, I've met many people, who call themselves, or are called Christians, who believe repentance is for believers.

 

[th1b.taylor]

Loaded question. Maybe a miscommunication on my part.

Simply put, I've met many people, who call themselves, or are called Christians, who believe repentance is for believers.

Romans 3:10 and 23 Nathan, you're right. Try as I do I still find myself repenting, daily. To establish your point sometime in the future you might find a metaphor I hijacked from Pastor Owen Dry of Houston, Texas.

In some states of the Roman Empire, if a murder was apprehended before the dead man was buried they bound the dead man to his back as the punishment. As the dead flesh rotted it infected the living and killed him for his crime. In the same fashion the Christian still carries the Old Man around and that dead, decaying mass still wants to enjoy it's sins of the past and fight it as hard as we may, on occasion we are caught off guard and we slip, momentarily, even if only in thought, into sin.

Today we have the Holiness movement, straight from Hell, charging into the Church Body and I once met a Hot Shot Driver that assurred me he had not sinned for better than four years I believe he claimed. When I explained to him that before I was strapped to a desk I was both a Truck Driver and a Cabbie and that I knew that at night the trip he had made from that plant to our warehouse took 30 minutes more than the time he had just consumed in the pick up and the delivery and that he had to have been speeding/sinning, he assured me that for the Saved Man, that was not a sin.

It gets really tricky our here in the world of Man's Christiandom.

 

[Jim Parker]

Simply put, I've met many people, who call themselves, or are called Christians, who believe repentance is for believers.

I've met people who believe that the earth was seeded with human life by space aliens.

 

[Nathan]

Taylor,

Actually, I don't have a point in this. In all honesty, I do not believe repentance is for believers.

Now, there is a mighty big hole that can be fallen into with my previous statement. Most of the time it comes down to a definition of repentance. I do believe that believers should ALLWAYS turn from sin. However, a understanding of what repentance is takes things to a higher level.

A foundational understanding of sin is crucial, and along with that is the understanding of what we are called to turn away from. It really boils down to the fact we sin because we are sinners, not we are sinners because we sin.

I just had not heard someone say the things Mr. Parker said in a long time. I don't know the details of his belief on the subject, he seems guarded, but it was interesting to read what he wrote nonetheless.

 

[Soul man]

It doesn't matter where Paul does and does not say something. If we don't know when he had his revelation, your case falls apart.

We know that he did teach repentance as part of the gospel and we have no reason to believe that he stopped.


It is not a different Gospel that Paul is writing about, it is the different groups to which he and Peter were called to. This is what verse 8 is about, explaining what he meant in verse 7.


I don't understand what you're asking.

You are not reasoning the scriptures, we know Paul had a revelation after his conversion.
When do you suppose he had his revelation of Christ in him?
By reading the scriptures you can see how all the Apostles grew in grace and knowledge. They are just as you and I, human, they were not some form of idols to be worshipped.
Some Christians treat them as gods, they were not, simply men God chose and used to spread the gospel. They were inspired I believe, all of Gods word is inspired.
Even though all of Gods word is inspired, it's not all to you. It's all for you as far as life application and so on, but as one big 66 book message, no, absolutely not. It has to be rightly divided.
The born again have specific message that came through at a specific time and Apostle. Just as God chose Noah or Abraham
or Moses for their specific time, He chose Paul to bring grace in "as a message."

Peter and Paul preached a different message, the scriptures can't be any clearer. I believe it was just for a time, and I believe Peter did come to revelation based on his Epistles.
When Paul had his revelation he went into the desert for a time.
When he went to the big penecost church in Jerusalem, for their conference, he preached Grace as a message. They agreed to disagree, nothing wrong with that. They did not know anything about God going to Place apart of Himself in believers as their only life. That is what was hidden in God.
Paul would go on to rebuke Peter, he withstood him to his face, because he was to be blamed
It's all written in Gal. chapters 1-2, if believers learn to study their bible as it is written and quit making assumptions, it gives the HolySpirit something to work with.

 

[th1b.taylor]

You are not reasoning the scriptures, we know Paul had a revelation after his conversion.
When do suppose he had his revelation of Christ in him?
By reading the scriptures you can see how all the Apostles grew in grace and knowledge. They are just as you and I, human, they were not some form of idols to be worshipped.
Some Christians treat them as gods, they were not, simply men God chose and used to spread the gospel. They were inspired I believe, all of Gods word is inspired.
Even though all of Gods word is inspired, it's not all to you. It's all for you as far as life application and so on, but as one big 66 book message, no, absolutely not. It has to be rightly divided.
The born again have specific message that came through at a specific time and Apostle. Just as God chose Noah or Abraham
or Moses for their specific time, He chose Paul to bring grace in "as a message."

Peter and Paul preached a different message, the scriptures can't be any clearer. I believe it was just for a time, and I believe Peter did come to revelation based on his Epistles.
When Paul had his revelation he went into the desert for a time.
When he went to the big penecost church in Jerusalem, for their conference.
He preached Grace as a message, they agreed to disagree, nothing wrong with that. They did not know anything about God going to Place apart of Himself in believers as their only life. That is what was hidden in God.
Paul would go on to rebuke Peter, he withstood him to his face, because he was to be blamed
It's all written in Gal. chapters 1-2, if believers learn to study their bible as it is written and quit making assumptions, it gives the HolySpirit something to work with.

Which portions of the Bible do you suggest we rip from out Bibles?

 

[Free]

You are not reasoning the scriptures

I am very much reasoning from the Scriptures. Sure I am. That is how I am able to give Scripture to back up what I am saying.

we know Paul had a revelation after his conversion.
When do you suppose he had his revelation of Christ in him?

That particular revelation? Probably very soon after his conversion, before he started preaching among the Gentiles:

Gal 1:15 But when he who had set me apart before I was born, and who called me by his grace,
Gal 1:16 was pleased to reveal his Son to me, in order that I might preach him among the Gentiles, I did not immediately consult with anyone; (ESV)

How could he preach something that he did not know? And this in no way whatsoever means that none of the other Apostles did not know this. In fact, the other Apostles, having been followers of Christ, having been his disciples, would have known this already:

Joh 14:18 "I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you.
Joh 14:19 Yet a little while and the world will see me no more, but you will see me. Because I live, you also will live.
Joh 14:20 In that day you will know that I am in my Father, and you in me, and I in you.
Joh 14:21 Whoever has my commandments and keeps them, he it is who loves me. And he who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I will love him and manifest myself to him." (ESV)

Joh 15:4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit by itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in me.
Joh 15:5 I am the vine; you are the branches. Whoever abides in me and I in him, he it is that bears much fruit, for apart from me you can do nothing. (ESV)

Joh 17:20 "I do not ask for these only, but also for those who will believe in me through their word,
Joh 17:21 that they may all be one, just as you, Father, are in me, and I in you, that they also may be in us, so that the world may believe that you have sent me.
Joh 17:22 The glory that you have given me I have given to them, that they may be one even as we are one,
Joh 17:23 I in them and you in me, that they may become perfectly one, so that the world may know that you sent me and loved them even as you loved me.
Joh 17:24 Father, I desire that they also, whom you have given me, may be with me where I am, to see my glory that you have given me because you loved me before the foundation of the world.
Joh 17:25 O righteous Father, even though the world does not know you, I know you, and these know that you have sent me.
Joh 17:26 I made known to them your name, and I will continue to make it known, that the love with which you have loved me may be in them, and I in them." (ESV)

The born again have specific message that came through at a specific time and Apostle. Just as God chose Noah or Abraham
or Moses for their specific time, He chose Paul to bring grace in "as a message."

That message is exactly the same to Jews and Gentiles.

Peter and Paul preached a different message, the scriptures can't be any clearer.

They preached the same message. There was and is only one gospel, as you have been shown.

Gal 1:6 I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting him who called you in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel—
Gal 1:7 not that there is another one, but there are some who trouble you and want to distort the gospel of Christ.
Gal 1:8 But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed.
Gal 1:9 As we have said before, so now I say again: If anyone is preaching to you a gospel contrary to the one you received, let him be accursed. (ESV)

This is the main reason Paul wrote this book. Are you willing to admit then that Paul was saying all the other Apostles, including Peter, were accursed? Or can you admit that Paul is very clear that there is no other gospel?

Jesus very clearly taught one gospel and taught this gospel to the disciples. But he also said that that gospel was to go into all the world, to all nations.

Mat 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be proclaimed throughout the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come. (ESV)

Mat 26:13 Truly, I say to you, wherever this gospel is proclaimed in the whole world, what she has done will also be told in memory of her." (ESV)

Mar 13:10 And the gospel must first be proclaimed to all nations. (ESV)

It was not a different gospel that was to go to all the other nations while the Jews had a different gospel for themselves.

I believe it was just for a time, and I believe Peter did come to revelation based on his Epistles.

That is your opinion and is not based on reasoning from the Scriptures.

When Paul had his revelation he went into the desert for a time.
When he went to the big penecost church in Jerusalem, for their conference, he preached Grace as a message. They agreed to disagree, nothing wrong with that. They did not know anything about God going to Place apart of Himself in believers as their only life. That is what was hidden in God.

You are mixing up a lot of things into one lump here. Please use Scripture to show that what you are saying is true.

Paul would go on to rebuke Peter, he withstood him to his face, because he was to be blamed

Why did Paul rebuke Peter?

It's all written in Gal. chapters 1-2, if believers learn to study their bible as it is written and quit making assumptions, it gives the HolySpirit something to work with.

So far you seem to be the one making assumptions.

 

[Jim Parker]

Simply put, I've met many people, who call themselves, or are called Christians, who believe repentance is for believers.

Then you have met many people who are confused.
Mark 1:14-15 (NKJV) Now after John was put in prison, Jesus came to Galilee, preaching the Gospel of the Kingdom of God and saying "The time is fulfilled and the kingdom of God is at hand. Repent and believe the Gospel."
Was Jesus telling believers to repent and believe the Gospel or people who were hearing the Gospel for the first time?

 

[Nathan]

Then you have met many people who are confused.
Mark 1:14-15 (NKJV) Now after John was put in prison, Jesus came to Galilee, preaching the Gospel of the Kingdom of God and saying "The time is fulfilled and the kingdom of God is at hand. Repent and believe the Gospel."
Was Jesus telling believers to repent and believe the Gospel or people who were hearing the Gospel for the first time?

I got this, I like easy questions.

Jesus was telling those who did not believe(obviously because He said "believe") to repent. Cha Ching!

 

[Jim Parker]

I got this, I like easy questions.

HAH!
Me too!