Paul getting rejected by all in Asia.

[JLB]

Where does John the apostle once say " We are saved by Grace" ?
In fact he issues a stark warning in John 3:36 ( NASB) we are sunk if we do not obey.
He issues another warning in 1 John 4:8 "Learn to Love or Prepare to Perish!" Why don't you quote these warnings also ? Why cherry-pick verses to drive home what we feel?
What you are saying , your explanation, will be held to be Speculation by any Court.check my post to dafydd . It will likely help you understand how we were deceived.
Also please keep in mind the word Grace (Charis in Greek) has more than 100 synonyms

Do you believe we can be saved apart from the Holy Spirit?

 

[Rajesh Sahu]

I was responding to your assertion that Jesus never uttered the word "grace" and showing that even though He didn't use the word, He didn't have to because He was/is grace perfected. Now you attack me for it. Too bad.

Please specify exactly WHERE did I attack you ?

 

[JLB]

Where does John the apostle once say " We are saved by Grace" ?
In fact he issues a stark warning in John 3:36 ( NASB) we are sunk if we do not obey.
He issues another warning in 1 John 4:8 "Learn to Love or Prepare to Perish!" Why don't you quote these warnings also ? Why cherry-pick verses to drive home what we feel?
What you are saying , your explanation, will be held to be Speculation by any Court.check my post to dafydd . It will likely help you understand how we were deceived.
Also please keep in mind the word Grace (Charis in Greek) has more than 100 synonyms

Do you believe we are saved apart from the Holy Spirit?

 

[Rajesh Sahu]

Paul doesn’t have the authority to abolish the law of Moses.

Paul taught what Jesus Christ our Lord did Himself.


For He Himself is our peace, who has made both one, and has broken down the middle wall of separation, having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace, and that He might reconcile them both to God in one body through the cross, thereby putting to death the enmity.
Ephesians 2:14-16


Again, I asked a simple question to you —


Do you believe we as the Church are required to sacrifice animals for our sins?





JLB

You are a master of the art of digression brother JLB But I'm not lettin you of the . Not yet at least until the whole world knows what Paul taught
Paul clearly says Jesus ABOLISHED God's Law in Ephesians 2:15
In Colossians 2:14 Paul crucified God's handwritten Law.
Why are you calling God's Law, Moses' law when God says I WROTE IT n gave it to Moses (Deuteronomy 9:10) . It is THIS Law that Paul abolished and crucified.
At least 99.99999999999% churches believed Paul and taught their congregations OT law is dead n obsolete BASED ON PAUL DOCTRINE . Further they taught We are under "grace" a word Jesus never uttered from His mouth in the Bible.
Question, and please no digression!
Do you think these 99.99% churches were right in declaring God's eternal handwritten Law is dead?
Please keep your answer in less than 4 sentences
Thank you in advance

 

[JLB]

In fact he issues a stark warning in John 3:36 ( NASB) we are sunk if we do not obey.

He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.” John 3:36 NASB


And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him,
Hebrews 5:9



How does what Paul writes in Hebrews different that what Jesus teaches?




JLB

 

[Rajesh Sahu]

He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.” John 3:36 NASB


And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him,
Hebrews 5:9



How does what Paul writes in Hebrews different that what Jesus teaches?




JLB

Can I please have the answer on How is God's eternal Law dead in my previous post .what you say about obedience is bang on target

 

[Randy]

You are a master of the art of digression brother JLB But I'm not lettin you of the hook. Not yet at least until the whole world knows what Paul taught
Paul clearly says Jesus ABOLISHED God's Law in Ephesians 2:15
In Colossians 2:14 Paul crucified Gods handwritten Law.
Why are you calling God's Law, Moses' law when God says I WROTE IT n gave it to Moses. It is THIS Law that Paul abolished. 99.99999999999% churches believed Paul and taught their congregations OT law is dead n obsolete. We are under "grace"

Question n please no digression!
Do you think these 99.99% churches were right in declaring God's eternal handwritten Law is dead?
Please keep your answer in less than 4 sentences
Thank you

Jesus didn't teach works of the law lead to eternal life.

Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. The one who believes in me will live, even though they die;

When Jesus saw their faith, he said to the paralyzed man, “Son, your sins are forgiven.

Grace
The scribes and the Pharisees brought a woman who had been caught in adultery; and making her stand before all of them, 4 they said to him, “Teacher, this woman was caught in the very act of committing adultery. 5 Now in the law Moses commanded us to stone such women. Now what do you say?

Jesus straightened up and said to her, “Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?” 11 She said, “No one, sir.”And Jesus said, “Neither do I condemn you. Go your way, and from now on do not sin again

Commandments of importance - we are not free to sin
Just then a man came up to Jesus and asked, “Teacher, what good thing must I do to get eternal life?”

17 “Why do you ask me about what is good?” Jesus replied. “There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, keep the commandments.”

18 “Which ones?” he inquired.

Jesus replied, “‘You shall not murder, you shall not commit adultery, you shall not steal, you shall not give false testimony, 19 honor your father and mother,’ and ‘love your neighbor as yourself.’

Just as Jesus taught Paul did to. Life not by works of the law but though Lord Jesus.
Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.

 

[Randy]

Since the law had punishments per transgression salvation by faith in Jesus can only be seen as "by the grace of God not the law that stood opposed to us".

 

[Rajesh Sahu]

Since the law had punishments per transgression salvation by faith in Jesus can only be seen as "by the grace of God not the law that stood opposed to us".

Please quote Christ Randy . He's the savior Also, Jesus had warned in John 13:16 to never place anyone else's ( Save God's ) words OVER His. I do think we have seriously ignored that warning

 

[JLB]

Can I please have the answer on How is God's eternal Law dead in my previous post .what you say about obedience is bang on target

I still have several unanswered questions that you have chosen to ignore.

Are you willing to answer my questions and have some healthy dialog?


The law of Moses is not God's eternal law.

The law of Moses, always being temporary has been fulfilled and therefore has been nailed to to the cross. taken out of the way and therefore abolished.

This means we don't have to become physically circumcised, sacrifice animals or stone people to death for picking up sticks on the Sabbath.


This does not mean it's acceptable to murder, lie, steal, dishonor our parents commit adultery, worship idols and the like.


For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome.
1 John 5:3


He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
1 John 2:4


His Commandments are written on our heart and mind, in which the Holy Spirit empowers us to obey Him, and His Commandments.



The law and the prophets were until John. Since that time the kingdom of God has been preached, and everyone is pressing into it. Luke 16:16


“Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled. Matthew 5:17-18


Jesus said He came to fulfill the law. Do you believe He fulfilled the law?

I for one, do happen to believe He did.

By saying "until" the Holy Spirit is indicating that the law of Moses was temporary.







JLB

 

[christian1724]

@Rajesh Sahu
I, for one, appreciate your discourse (at least for now). I hope you don't get banned from discussion either on this topic or on this site. I think I recognize the difference between proselytizing, antagonizing and concern for the path that your fellow man is on. I love one mans concern for his brother(s) (I despise proselytizing disguised as concern).

I think it's OK to question Paul. I think it's OK to have any of our beliefs questioned. After all, it's how our foundation is strengthened and, when necessary, corrected.

If belief is defined as those things that you hold to be Truth then acting on those beliefs is the actual concept of Faith. (Faith is NOT belief! It might be better described as the manifesting of a belief, or action based upon a held belief. If I could pass on thing along to a brother that didn't yet understand that, I think it would be that.)

We can have faith in God's Word or we can have faith in 'other than' His Word. (Faith in 'other than' His Word is essentially the concept of vanity, right?) Faith in the Word of God is the only way to obtain His favor (grace) that I am aware of.

Having said that, I think that if a man acts on what he has honestly come to understand to be God's Word, even if he is in error, is never the less Faithing to his best ability and will receive God's merciful attention. It may not be His joyous attention but it will almost assuredly be merciful (Job's "words without knowledge" come to mind).

 

[Rajesh Sahu]

I still have several unanswered questions that you have chosen to ignore.

Are you willing to answer my questions and have some healthy dialog?


The law of Moses is not God's eternal law.

The law of Moses, always being temporary has been fulfilled and therefore has been nailed to to the cross. taken out of the way and therefore abolished.

This means we don't have to become physically circumcised, sacrifice animals or stone people to death for picking up sticks on the Sabbath.


This does not mean it's acceptable to murder, lie, steal, dishonor our parents commit adultery, worship idols and the like.


For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome.
1 John 5:3


He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
1 John 2:4


His Commandments are written on our heart and mind, in which the Holy Spirit empowers us to obey Him, and His Commandments.



The law and the prophets were until John. Since that time the kingdom of God has been preached, and everyone is pressing into it. Luke 16:16


“Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled. Matthew 5:17-18


Jesus said He came to fulfill the law. Do you believe He fulfilled the law?

I for one, do happen to believe He did.

By saying "until" the Holy Spirit is indicating that the law of Moses was temporary.







JLB

I'll reply tomorrow. I'm in India which is about the same time as Los Angeles except it's pm here ( 11.19 pm) while it's around 11 am there at this time . Ready to sleep
May God bless all with His love and wisdom

 

[WIP]

Please specify exactly WHERE did I attack you ?

Maybe attacked wasn't a very accurate assessment. What I don't understand is why your reply to me was completely off course from the post I presented, which was a reply to your assertion.

 

[Randy]

Please quote Christ Randy . He's the savior Also, Jesus had warned in John 13:16 to never place anyone else's ( Save God's ) words OVER His. I do think we have seriously ignored that warning

As I already did.
Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. The one who believes in me will live, even though they die;

The only way one can escape the punishments of the law is by Gods grace in reconciling us to Himself through the blood of Christ which He provided to those who were in the sins. Its GRACE.

You think Paul is being deceitful in this?
and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross.

It is not for man to choose how to forgive sin. Jesus is how God chose to forgive sin. There is no other name or way.

 

[JLB]

I'll reply tomorrow. I'm in India which is about the same time as Los Angeles except it's pm here ( 11.19 pm) while it's around 11 am there at this time . Ready to sleep
May God bless all with His love and wisdom

Be safe.


God bless you.




JLB

 

[zeke55]

Well there is only one Father that flesh children have, the other fact is children do have only one but its not same one father so it being a copy of Spirit One Father is a difficult grasp if you think only flesh sons become fathers of behaving from a to z, now is that doubtful with Spirit is your responsibility if Christ be awake in you called both sons man then God being where? Outside you is classic flesh Greatness but still least to least in heaven in Christ in you that born it, where was is spiritual Father, Lord, Gods kingdom where is like One Father of you and you is flesh battling Spirit Paul understood what goes on him a little more awake than outside Jews or savages neither inherit till?

 

[zeke55]

That's my last post so odious to clubs.

 

[Rajesh Sahu]

I still have several unanswered questions that you have chosen to ignore.

Are you willing to answer my questions and have some healthy dialog?


The law of Moses is not God's eternal law.

The law of Moses, always being temporary has been fulfilled and therefore has been nailed to to the cross. taken out of the way and therefore abolished.

This means we don't have to become physically circumcised, sacrifice animals or stone people to death for picking up sticks on the Sabbath.


This does not mean it's acceptable to murder, lie, steal, dishonor our parents commit adultery, worship idols and the like.


For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome.
1 John 5:3


He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
1 John 2:4


His Commandments are written on our heart and mind, in which the Holy Spirit empowers us to obey Him, and His Commandments.



[
Jesus said He came to fulfill the law. Do you believe He fulfilled the law?

I for one, do happen to believe He did.

By saying "until" the Holy Spirit is indicating that the law of Moses was temporary.

JLB

JLB and all brothers and sisters and staff here , I most respectfully wish to ask you a question here.
This question the Lord God gave me to ask us ( you and I )
He wants us to take a stand on it , a position and our commitment.

Paul accused Jesus of ABOLISHING the ETERNAL (Psalm 19:7-11) Law of God in Ephesians 2:15
" BY ABOLISHING IN HIS FLESH THE LAW OF COMMANDMENTS AND DECREES. Christ DID THIS to create in Himself one new man out of the two, thus making peace."

AND

Paul again accused "JESUS BLOTTED OUT THE HANDWRITING OF ORDINANCES THAT WAS AGAINST US , and took it out of the way, nailing it to HIS cross" (Colossians 2:14)

From the above two verses it is evident that Paul ACCUSED CHRIST of ABOLISHING THE ETERNAL LAW OF GOD ( Ephesians 2:15) , and BLOTTING OUT THE HANDWRITTEN Law of God (Deuteronomy 9:10) claiming it was AGAINST US even though David in Psalm repeatedly called it Just, Pure, Holy, Eternal , Forever and Ever , Delightful, Wonderful, Life giving, a Honey comb, and more valuable than pure gold ( Psalm 19:7-11, Psalm 111:7-8, Psalm 119)

Question to you JLB and everyone really ( since I wish not to put JLB on a spot no more ) is DO YOU ACCEPT THESE ACCUSATIONS OF PAUL AGAINST Christ... YES or NO?

Before you answer take time to mull over it. This involves the Law of the one and only supreme authority in the Universe, and as OT informs, very sensitive about His Law and it's Obedience. In this case the Whole Law was wiped out clean ! His eternal Law . And Jesus His only begotten Son was accused of it as is abundantly evident from above two fanning verses of Paul .....who else but Paul....

Also if you believe indeed the handwritten Law of God was wiped out clean ,( Ephesians 2:15) and crucified ( Colossians 2:14)you're NOT ALONE. Almost every Church throughout the world for the past 500 years not only believed and accepted it, but also TAUGHT it passionately to billions across the world. Even TODAY they teach it....

Prayer : Please keep your replies brief, succinct, and Biblical. Thank you in advance

For ready reference the question to all those who love Jesus is :
DO YOU ACCEPT THESE ACCUSATIONS OF PAUL AGAINST Christ?

Look forward to hearing from you . A lot of evil has occurred and charges are deadly serious here

 

[Rajesh Sahu]

Be safe.


God bless you.




JLB

Thank you

 

[JLB]

JLB and all brothers and sisters and staff here , I most respectfully wish to ask you a question here.
This question the Lord God gave me to ask us ( you and I )
He wants us to take a stand on it , a position and our commitment.

Paul accused Jesus of ABOLISHING the ETERNAL (Psalm 19:7-11) Law of God in Ephesians 2:15
" BY ABOLISHING IN HIS FLESH THE LAW OF COMMANDMENTS AND DECREES. Christ DID THIS to create in Himself one new man out of the two, thus making peace."

AND

Paul again accused "JESUS BLOTTED OUT THE HANDWRITING OF ORDINANCES THAT WAS AGAINST US , and took it out of the way, nailing it to HIS cross" (Colossians 2:14)

From the above two verses it is evident that Paul ACCUSED CHRIST of ABOLISHING THE ETERNAL LAW OF GOD ( Ephesians 2:15) , and BLOTTING OUT THE HANDWRITTEN Law of God (Deuteronomy 9:10) claiming it was AGAINST US even though David in Psalm repeatedly called it Just, Pure, Holy, Eternal , Forever and Ever , Delightful, Wonderful, Life giving, a Honey comb, and more valuable than pure gold ( Psalm 19:7-11, Psalm 111:7-8, Psalm 119)

Question to you JLB and everyone really ( since I wish not to put JLB on a spot no more ) is DO YOU ACCEPT THESE ACCUSATIONS OF PAUL AGAINST Christ... YES or NO?

Before you answer take time to mull over it. This involves the Law of the one and only supreme authority in the Universe, and as OT informs, very sensitive about His Law and it's Obedience. In this case the Whole Law was wiped out clean ! His eternal Law . And Jesus His only begotten Son was accused of it as is abundantly evident from above two fanning verses of Paul .....who else but Paul....

Also if you believe indeed the handwritten Law of God was wiped out clean ,( Ephesians 2:15) and crucified ( Colossians 2:14)you're NOT ALONE. Almost every Church throughout the world for the past 500 years not only believed and accepted it, but also TAUGHT it passionately to billions across the world. Even TODAY they teach it....

Prayer : Please keep your replies brief, succinct, and Biblical. Thank you in advance

For ready reference the question to all those who love Jesus is :
DO YOU ACCEPT THESE ACCUSATIONS OF PAUL AGAINST Christ?

Look forward to hearing from you . A lot of evil has occurred and charges are deadly serious here

You have asked several questions and I have answered you.

You said yesterday you would answer my questions, today.


Do you believe we as the Church are to sacrifice animals for our sins according to the law of Moses?


Do you believe a person must become physically circumcised according law of Moses, in order to be in covenant with God?


Do you believe we as the Church are to observe the Sabbath requirements according to the law of Moses, as the following passages describe —

Then he said to them, “This is what the Lord has said: ‘Tomorrow is a Sabbath rest, a holy Sabbath to the Lord. Bake what you will bake today, and boil what you will boil; and lay up for yourselves all that remains, to be kept until morning.’ ” So they laid it up till morning, as Moses commanded; and it did not stink, nor were there any worms in it. Then Moses said, “Eat that today, for today is a Sabbath to the Lord; today you will not find it in the field. Six days you shall gather it, but on the seventh day, the Sabbath, there will be none.”
Now it happened that some of the people went out on the seventh day to gather, but they found none. And the Lord said to Moses, “How long do you refuse to keep My commandments and My laws? See! For the Lord has given you the Sabbath; therefore He gives you on the sixth day bread for two days. Let every man remain in his place; let no man go out of his place on the seventh day.” So the people rested on the seventh day. Exodus 16:23-30





And the Lord spoke to Moses, saying, “Speak also to the children of Israel, saying: Surely My Sabbaths you shall keep, for it is a sign between Me and you throughout your generations, that you may know that I am the Lord who sanctifies you. You shall keep the Sabbath, therefore, for it is holy to you. Everyone who profanes it shall surely be put to death; for whoever does any work on it, that person shall be cut off from among his people. Work shall be done for six days, but the seventh is the Sabbath of rest, holy to the Lord. Whoever does any work on the Sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.
Exodus 31:12-15




Then Moses gathered all the congregation of the children of Israel together, and said to them, “These are the words which the Lord has commanded you to do: Work shall be done for six days, but the seventh day shall be a holy day for you, a Sabbath of rest to the Lord. Whoever does any work on it shall be put to death. You shall kindle no fire throughout your dwellings on the Sabbath day.”Exodus 35:1-3



Now while the children of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man gathering sticks on the Sabbath day. And those who found him gathering sticks brought him to Moses and Aaron, and to all the congregation. They put him under guard, because it had not been explained what should be done to him.
Then the Lord said to Moses, “The man must surely be put to death; all the congregation shall stone him with stones outside the camp.” So, as the Lord commanded Moses, all the congregation brought him outside the camp and stoned him with stones, and he died. Numbers 15:32-36



‘And on the Sabbath day two lambs in their first year, without blemish, and two-tenths of an ephah of fine flour as a grain offering, mixed with oil, with its drink offering— this is the burnt offering for every Sabbath, besides the regular burnt offering with its drink offering. Numbers 28:9-10

JLB