Paul getting rejected by all in Asia.

[JLB]

JLB ,
Before I'm banned / ousted from here, can I request you to answer my following question in ONE LINE only. As you know world over now tests have multiple choice ONE LINER answer models. Because it has been written " where there are many words sin is not absent " ( Proverbs 10:19)
Question is very straightforward:
How did the Savior " Forget " to teach the most crucial aspect of Salvation doctrine the Churches teach (borrowed from Paul Ephesians 2:8-9) ........GRACE, before crucifixion, after resurrection or or in future times (Revelation)? GRACE or Saved by Grace is conspicuous by it's absence in the salvation doctrine of Christ
One line answer please. Many thanks

I will be glad to answer any question you have, as soon as you provide and answer my questions I have asked you several times, which you only dodge. You have attempted to explain your opinion about what you think Paul did, but I asked for scripture whereby Jesus or His Apostles condemned Paul as a false teacher and false apostle.

• Here are three different passages that bear witness to Paul being converted and commissioned by Jesus Christ, and sent out by the Holy Spirit as an apostle, as well as validated by Peter.

Words of Christ in red —


“While thus occupied, as I journeyed to Damascus with authority and commission from the chief priests, at midday, O king, along the road I saw a light from heaven, brighter than the sun, shining around me and those who journeyed with me. And when we all had fallen to the ground, I heard a voice speaking to me and saying in the Hebrew language, ‘Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting Me? It is hard for you to kick against the goads.’ So I said, ‘Who are You, Lord?’ And He said, ‘I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting.
But rise and stand on your feet; for I have appeared to you for this purpose, to make you a minister and a witness both of the things which you have seen and of the things which I will yet reveal to you. I will deliver you from the Jewish people, as well as from the Gentiles, to whom I now send you, to open their eyes, in order to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who are sanctified by faith in Me.’ “Therefore, King Agrippa, I was not disobedient to the heavenly vision, but declared first to those in Damascus and in Jerusalem, and throughout all the region of Judea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent, turn to God, and do works befitting repentance. Acts 16:12-20


Question: Do you believe the book of Acts is inspired scripture by the Holy Spirit; a simple yes or no.


again


Now in the church that was at Antioch there were certain prophets and teachers: Barnabas, Simeon who was called Niger, Lucius of Cyrene, Manaen who had been brought up with Herod the tetrarch, and Saul. As they ministered to the Lord and fasted, the Holy Spirit said, “Now separate to Me Barnabas and Saul for the work to which I have called them.” Then, having fasted and prayed, and laid hands on them, they sent them away. So, being sent out by the Holy Spirit, they went down to Seleucia, and from there they sailed to Cyprus.
Acts 13:1-4

• The Holy Spirit sent out Paul through the leadership and validation of the Church; do you believe Luke wrote these words under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit?

The book of 2 Peter as recorded by Peter —


Therefore, beloved, looking forward to these things, be diligent to be found by Him in peace, without spot and blameless; and consider that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation—as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given to him, has written to you, as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which untaught and unstable people twist to their own destruction, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures. 2 Peter 3:14-16

• Peter describes Paul as “our beloved brother”. Does that validation describe a person considered to be a “false teacher”?

• Peter goes on to correlate Pauls writings with the “rest of the scriptures”.

Out of the mouth of two or three witnesses, let every word be established.


Please take the time to read these scriptures and answer the questions truthfully.





JLB

 

[JLB]

How did the Savior " Forget " to teach the most crucial aspect of Salvation doctrine the Churches teach (borrowed from Paul Ephesians 2:8-9) ........GRACE, before crucifixion, after resurrection or or in future times (Revelation)? GRACE or Saved by Grace is conspicuous by it's absence in the salvation doctrine of Christ
One line answer please. Many thanks

Answer:

Jesus didn’t forget to teach grace, as grace and truth came through Him; the Spirit of Grace.


Most agree that Paul was the author of the book of Hebrews.

Anyone who has rejected Moses’ law dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace?
Hebrews 10:28-29


For the law was given through Moses, but grace and truth came through Jesus Christ. John 1:17



Grace is the God given ability, the power to walk in dominion over sin and obey Jesus Christ: Grace is the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of grace, which Jesus poured out on the day of Pentecost.


Here is just one of the many things Paul taught about grace —


For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men, teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly in the present age, looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ, who gave Himself for us, that He might redeem us from every lawless deed and purify for Himself His own special people, zealous for good works. Titus 2:11-14

• denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly in the present age

The Apostle Paul


Paul taught us that the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of grace gives us the power to walk in obedience to Jesus Christ and Hs commandments rather than the sinful desires of our flesh.





JLB

 

[stovebolts]

Do not threaten me JLB. Ban me and show on whose side you are. I'm ready for the day of judgement. You too be so brother. I'm so looking forward to the last day . One of us in grace error. Let Christ now judge between us . Carry out your threat

You will not be banned for your belief, but don't expect a warm hug and open arms when you oppose an Apostle and challenge our Holy Scriptures or anything else in our Statement of Faith.
We do not force our Statement of Faith on anyone and it is not a requirement to be a member. What will get anyone banned is a violation of our TOS.

Instead of butting heads, why not try to do what Jesus teaches us to do?

Mat 5:23 Therefore if thou bring thy gift to the altar, and there rememberest that thy brother hath ought against thee;
Mat 5:24 Leave there thy gift before the altar, and go thy way; first be reconciled to thy brother, and then come and offer thy gift.
Mat 5:25 Agree with thine adversary quickly, whiles thou art in the way with him; lest at any time the adversary deliver thee to the judge, and the judge deliver thee to the officer, and thou be cast into prison.
Mat 5:26 Verily I say unto thee, Thou shalt by no means come out thence, till thou hast paid the uttermost farthing.

Hear's the deal Raj, you come in here with what you know will cause strife and is clearly against our Statement of faith. What are you expecting? Do you think "Proving" you're right will win any hearts? No, it will only cause a deeper division among us.

What can you do to make peace?
Jesus says,
Mat 7:1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.
Mat 7:2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
Do we offer mercy to the one we oppose, or do we lack mercy? If we lack mercy, then when our judgment day comes, God will hold us to the same rule that we held others to. Honestly, it all circles back to treating others the way God wants us to treat others, and he gave us his Son, Jesus as an example.

You don't like Paul. I get that. Actually, I think everyone gets that. Why, I don't especially know but maybe that's what we should talk about because from what I've read from you, Paul doesn't seem to be the issue as far as I can tell. If I were a betting man, I would say that those who abuse and twist Paul's teachings (which you believe are right teachings on Paul for which our community would label as those who twist the teachings of Paul) are the ones that you disagree with, and not so much Paul himself.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

I suppose when someone starts out with, “this is not an attack on xyz” and then proceeds to attack from rear xyz, one needs to see that there is likely a character problem and dialogue with such will be fruitless.

 

[stovebolts]

I suppose when someone starts out with, “this is not an attack on xyz” and then proceeds to attack from rear xyz, one needs to see that there is likely a character problem and dialogue with such will be fruitless.

Not to mention the original poster started this thread in 2009. Raj revived it in 2020 and then again in 2022.

 

[Rajesh Sahu]

Answer:

Jesus didn’t forget to teach grace, as grace and truth came through Him; the Spirit of Grace.


Most agree that Paul was the author of the book of Hebrews.

Anyone who has rejected Moses’ law dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace?
Hebrews 10:28-29


For the law was given through Moses, but grace and truth came through Jesus Christ. John 1:17



Grace is the God given ability, the power to walk in dominion over sin and obey Jesus Christ: Grace is the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of grace, which Jesus poured out on the day of Pentecost.


Here is just one of the many things Paul taught about grace —


For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men, teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly in the present age, looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ, who gave Himself for us, that He might redeem us from every lawless deed and purify for Himself His own special people, zealous for good works. Titus 2:11-14

• denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly in the present age

The Apostle Paul


Paul taught us that the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of grace gives us the power to walk in obedience to Jesus Christ and Hs commandments rather than the sinful desires of our flesh.





JLB

JLB! you've again written paragraph after paragraph!
Please provide a single line answer . Think you're sitting in one of the professional exams where you have the liberty to provide one liner only. Once you provide it I'll reply. Desist from the temptation to write more n more in yr zeal I know we both love the Lord. Bit one of our doctrines is in deathly error with potentially eternal consequence. And yet we are contending for His sake only. So please ...

 

[stovebolts]

Bit one of our doctrines is in deathly error with potentially eternal consequence.

Are you saying that on Judgment Day, God will give us a litmus test and only those with the right answer will be saved?
I'm more of the camp that Jesus will look what we did.. and how we treated each other.

Even the demons can tell you the right answer.

 

[Rajesh Sahu]

You will not be banned for your belief, but don't expect a warm hug and open arms when you oppose an Apostle and challenge our Holy Scriptures or anything else in our Statement of Faith.
We do not force our Statement of Faith on anyone and it is not a requirement to be a member. What will get anyone banned is a violation of our TOS.

Instead of butting heads, why not try to do what Jesus teaches us to do?

Mat 5:23 Therefore if thou bring thy gift to the altar, and there rememberest that thy brother hath ought against thee;
Mat 5:24 Leave there thy gift before the altar, and go thy way; first be reconciled to thy brother, and then come and offer thy gift.
Mat 5:25 Agree with thine adversary quickly, whiles thou art in the way with him; lest at any time the adversary deliver thee to the judge, and the judge deliver thee to the officer, and thou be cast into prison.
Mat 5:26 Verily I say unto thee, Thou shalt by no means come out thence, till thou hast paid the uttermost farthing.

Hear's the deal Raj, you come in here with what you know will cause strife and is clearly against our Statement of faith. What are you expecting? Do you think "Proving" you're right will win any hearts? No, it will only cause a deeper division among us.

What can you do to make peace?
Jesus says,
Mat 7:1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.
Mat 7:2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
Do we offer mercy to the one we oppose, or do we lack mercy? If we lack mercy, then when our judgment day comes, God will hold us to the same rule that we held others to. Honestly, it all circles back to treating others the way God wants us to treat others, and he gave us his Son, Jesus as an example.

You don't like Paul. I get that. Actually, I think everyone gets that. Why, I don't especially know but maybe that's what we should talk about because from what I've read from you, Paul doesn't seem to be the issue as far as I can tell. If I were a betting man, I would say that those who abuse and twist Paul's teachings (which you believe are right teachings on Paul for which our community would label as those who twist the teachings of Paul) are the ones that you disagree with, and not so much Paul himself.

Have patience Stove . This is coming to a good closure . I'm not here , like Christ, to get warm hugs. But HIS truth to be taught. If Christ was there to tickle ears He would have not been crucified. He spoke Truth so plainly and without diplomacy /0 mincing that many on the terribly night of crucifixion wanted His blood. He chose TRUTH over Life . I'm made on those lines brother. Jesus is my witness. Pray to Him Stove. Ask Him about me . If He does not testify for me ( that I'm from Him) THEN I am a liar and a deceiver as Paul said about himself 2 Corinthians 12:16

 

[Rajesh Sahu]

Are you saying that on Judgment Day, God will give us a litmus test and only those with the right answer will be saved?
I'm more of the camp that Jesus will look what we did.. and how we treated each other.

Even the demons can tell you the right answer.

I'll come back to you soon. That's a promise. But let me respectfully discuss with JLB first. Why didn't Jesus teach or even utter the WORD GRACE in His entire ministry/ NT .Before and after resurrection . If you want to reply to that you're welcome sir.

 

[stovebolts]

He spoke Truth so plainly and without diplomacy

Only when confronted by those who opposed him. You will have to show me where Jesus came in cracking the whip on what people "thought". Jesus cracked the whip for those taking physical advantage of the worshipers for their own gain.
We did not confront you, you came and confronted us, not for what we "do", but what we "think".

If you want to charge us with a crime, then show us how what we think is sin and let us discuss that.

Do not let your zeal over this matter consume you.

Jesus says,
Mat 7:1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.
Mat 7:2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.

 

[stovebolts]

I'll come back to you soon. That's a promise. But let me respectfully discuss with JLB first. Why didn't Jesus teach or even utter the WORD GRACE in His entire ministry/ NT .Before and after resurrection . If you want to reply to that you're welcome sir.

Describe what Grace is... This way I can better understand what that word means to you. If you could, would you also give me an example of what grace looks like when implemented?
James says faith without works is dead. In the same way, we not only need to know what grace means, but we also need to know how to put it in action in our own lives. In other words, we need to live that out.

 

[Rajesh Sahu]

Describe what Grace is... This way I can better understand what that word means to you. If you could, would you also give me an example of what grace looks like when implemented?
James says faith without works is dead. In the same way, we not only need to know what grace means, but we also need to know how to put it in action in our own lives. In other words, we need to live that out.

You're asking a QUESTION of a person who asked you a question. That's not an answer. My question is simple : If one is saved by GRACE alone ( through Faith) as Paul and churches have taught, WHY did Jesus never teach or utter the word of paramount importance to human Salvation.....GRACE? WHAT prevented him from teaching it. I reckon it was just the done thing ( in case it was what he wanted to convey ) But He didn't......

 

[ezrider]

Zechariah 4:6-9
Then he answered and spake unto me, saying, This is the word of the LORD unto Zerubbabel, saying,
Not by might, nor by power, but by my spirit,
saith the LORD of hosts.
Who art thou, O great mountain? before Zerubbabel thou shalt become a plain:
and he shall bring forth the headstone thereof with shoutings, crying, Grace, grace unto it.
Moreover the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,
The hands of Zerubbabel have laid the foundation of this house;
his hands shall also finish it;
and thou shalt know that the LORD of hosts hath sent me unto you.




Somehow I've gotten the sense in this thread that there is an effort to undermine Grace, and Paul because of it. How can that be? Even Noah found Grace in the Lords eye. Moses pleaded for Grace before the Lord. And somehow Paul is false apostle for speaking about the Grace in Christ? I don't get it. Maybe Jesus didn't utter the word Grace, but what did the prophet say of Him?

 

[stovebolts]

You're asking a QUESTION of a person who asked you a question.

Yes, you are correct. But please understand this. I am new to this discussion and I don’t know how you define grace, let alone how you think that term is expressed through what we do. In summary, if our ideas and thoughts are just that, and they cannot be realized in what we do, then I don’t see any point in me personally discussing this issue with you. Why? Because for me, ideas are worthless if we can’t wrap some sort of action around it.

So, you can answer my question so I can better understand you, or you can leave me guessing and assuming. If you leave me guessing or assuming I may say something about what you’ve said in a way that you did not intend, and I simply don’t want to misrepresent you.

r. My question is simple : If one is saved by GRACE alone ( through Faith) as Paul and churches have taught, WHY did Jesus never teach or utter the word of paramount importance to human Salvation.....GRACE? WHAT prevented him from teaching it. I reckon it was just the done thing ( in case it was what he wanted to convey ) But He didn't......

See, now your bringing Paul into this, and I thought you asked a question about Jesus.

Listen, I can talk to you all day about Jesus without discussing Paul.

I would also add this, and you may find we actually hold some common ground. If you disagree with what some within Christianity have taught on salvation, which is to say that you disagree with TULIP then you’ll find yourself in good company with myself. Where you and I both disagree with Calvinism in that regard, for me, it’s because I believe many misunderstand Paul and twist his words to their own destruction.

But let’s save that for later and if you would be so kind to answer my question so I don’t misrepresent you, then it would be my pleasure to answer your first question about Jesus.

 

[Rajesh Sahu]

Yes, you are correct. But please understand this. I am new to this discussion and I don’t know how you define grace, let alone how you think that term is expressed through what we do. In summary, if our ideas and thoughts are just that, and they cannot be realized in what we do, then I don’t see any point in me personally discussing this issue with you. Why? Because for me, ideas are worthless if we can’t wrap some sort of action around it.

So, you can answer my question so I can better understand you, or you can leave me guessing and assuming. If you leave me guessing or assuming I may say something about what you’ve said in a way that you did not intend, and I simply don’t want to misrepresent you.

See, now your bringing Paul into this, and I thought you asked a question about Jesus.

Listen, I can talk to you all day about Jesus without discussing Paul.

I would also add this, and you may find we actually hold some common ground. If you disagree with what some within Christianity have taught on salvation, which is to say that you disagree with TULIP then you’ll find yourself in good company with myself. Where you and I both disagree with Calvinism in that regard, for me, it’s because I believe many misunderstand Paul and twist his words to their own destruction.

But let’s save that for later and if you would be so kind to answer my question so I don’t misrepresent you, then it would be my pleasure to answer your first question about Jesus.

Thank you for patiently considering what I wrote Stove. Bless the Lord , at least we have one common agreement Jesus did NOT teach or utter the word GRACE . This itself should alarm the Churches who have taught doctrine of saved by grace alone through faith alone past 500 years.
Regarding your question about What I ( Rajesh Sahu) think of what is Grace. That's of course one-man out of 8 billion ( earth population ) people's views .
Well if you scrutinize my posts Stove , almost 600 of them, my reliance is on WHAT Christ taught . Above all writers in NT. There is a good reason for that . Jesus . As always Jesus
Jesus warns us in John 13:16 that ( paraphrasing) Not one writer is greater than HIM. That includes Paul with His multiple books
Now let us diligently examine WHAT criteria did Christ use on the FINAL day of judgment. This exposes further the monumental error we were taught. At the same time it gives a CRYSTAL CLEAR picture WHAT criteria will Christ use on the day of judgment to SAVE or CONDEMN.
I'm talking about Matthew 25:31-46
Before we read it I'll remind here all readers here about the WARNING of the Christ regarding HIS SPOKEN WORDS. He says the universe can crash burn and disappear but all my words will HAPPEN ..come to pass ( I paraphrased, my apologies ) Matthew 24:35

Now keeping that caveat of Christ let us examine what will happen on the day of judgement as Christ revealed
Matthew 25:31–46

ESV

The Final Judgment

31 i“When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit on his glorious throne. 32 Before him will be gathered all the nations, and he will separate people one from another as a shepherd separates nthe sheep from the goats. 33 And he will place the sheep on his right, but the goats on the left. 34 Then othe King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. 35 For vI was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, xI was a stranger and you welcomed me, 36 vI was naked and you clothed me, I was sick and you visited me, I was in prison and you came to me.’ 37 Then the righteous will answer him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you drink? 38 And when did we see you a stranger and welcome you, or naked and clothe you? 39 And when did we see you sick or in prison and visit you?’ 40 And the King will answer them, c‘Truly, I say to you, as you did it to one of the least of these my brothers,6 you did it to me.’

41 “Then he will say to those on his left, e‘Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For iI was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me no drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not welcome me, naked and you did not clothe me, sick and in prison and you did not visit me.’ 44 Then they also will answer, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to you?’ 45 Then he will answer them, saying, ‘Truly, I say to you, as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to me.’ 46 And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the
righteous into eternal life


Did you get it Stove . Jesus is providing the answer you asked me . This judgment day VISION Christ provided explains WHAT GRACE... is if anything. It was WORKS of Loving-compassion. Yup it was all along a WORK BASED salvation that the SON of God taught .

All those , the SHEEP (on the day of judgment) who practiced LOVING COMPASSION were saved exactly as Christ had taught. Check Matthew 22:37-40, Matthew 7:12, Luke 10:25-28
But those ( Goats) who merely BELIEVED but did not OBEY Christ ( practice loving-kindness were REJECTED with harsh words of condemnation. They GAVE GRACE to the poor broken and sick and hungry and RECEIVED GRACE ( from Christ)
in consonance and harmony with what the Father and the Son taught ....what you sow you shall reap...
Bottom line : GRACE will be GIVEN to those who GAVE GRACE to others and thereby fulfilled the Law of God and teachings of the Prophets.
That's GRACE for me brother Stove.... WORKS OF LOVING COMPASSION .
Before I end this post I wish to lovingly/ kindly remind . The judgment day VISION provided by Christ Himself CANNOT change. Grace as defined by Paul and the Churches was rejected in totality by Christ who USED the criteria HE ( JESUS) had taught before and after resurrection ( Matthew 22:37-40, Matthew 7:12, Luke 10:25-28)
Also take a gander at Christ's repeated warnings on OBEDIENCE as an absolute requirement for Salvation..... moments before getting crucified
John 14:15, John 14:21, John 14:23, John 14:24 and the Baptist's warning in John 3:36 NASB
Faith is good IF it leads to GOOD WORKS ( the sheep) exactly as
James the brother of Jesus warned. Else it's "useless"
" Faith is DEAD without GOOD WORKS"
That's precisely what Christ used on the day of judgement ... Good works of loving kindness

 

[zeke55]

You know you ought to try a non-Christian site. Your derivations are offensive. Any Christian knows the difference between what Revelations said...and the fact that Paul was a REAL Apostle.
God deals with mockers. Something you should take into consideration.
You should check over some of the forum rules. A moderator might like to show you what we expect.
Blatant abuse of Christianity is not exactly someone I would roll out the welcome wagon for.

Well only father called flesh and blood can judge it's sons male and females will need only correct thinkers to operate grace and mercy that works on heart and skull, grasping Father spirit in man is never in need of judging man nor regarding sin nor remembering it, Jesus never sinned was by what his Father never saying he did, any thing he had been tested by sin its defeated by Father for spirit defeating flesh easy for spirit but flesh sons good or evil was easy to defeat who loved milk drinkers.

 

[ezrider]

Rajesh Sahu, can I give you an example of grace?


And Abraham drew near, and said, Wilt thou also destroy the righteous with the wicked? Peradventure there be fifty righteous within the city: wilt thou also destroy and not spare the place for the fifty righteous that are therein? That be far from thee to do after this manner, to slay the righteous with the wicked: and that the righteous should be as the wicked, that be far from thee: Shall not the Judge of all the earth do right? And the LORD said, If I find in Sodom fifty righteous within the city, then I will spare all the place for their sakes. And Abraham answered and said, Behold now, I have taken upon me to speak unto the Lord, which am but dust and ashes: Peradventure there shall lack five of the fifty righteous: wilt thou destroy all the city for lack of five? And he said, If I find there forty and five, I will not destroy it. And he spake unto him yet again, and said, Peradventure there shall be forty found there. And he said, I will not do it for forty's sake. And he said unto him, Oh let not the Lord be angry, and I will speak: Peradventure there shall thirty be found there. And he said, I will not do it, if I find thirty there. And he said, Behold now, I have taken upon me to speak unto the Lord: Peradventure there shall be twenty found there. And he said, I will not destroy it for twenty's sake. And he said, Oh let not the Lord be angry, and I will speak yet but this once: Peradventure ten shall be found there. And he said, I will not destroy it for ten's sake. And the LORD went his way, as soon as he had left communing with Abraham: and Abraham returned unto his place.



For Abraham's sake, on account of it was he whom the Lord made the promises, what do you suppose the Lord would to for the sake of ONE Righteous, even His Son, of whom you speak?

 

[ezrider]

John 1:14-19
And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
John bare witness of him, and cried, saying, This was he of whom I spake, He that cometh after me is preferred before me: for he was before me. And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace. For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ. No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.


Rajesh Sahu, what of the testimony of John? Is John's witness false?

 

[WIP]

I don't think Jesus verbally uttered the word "grace" but did He not personify grace? He lived it for He is God. His very existence and purpose here on earth was living grace.

14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.
15 John bore witness of Him and cried out, saying, “This was He of whom I said, ‘He who comes after me is preferred before me, for He was before me.’ ”
16 And of His fullness we have all received, and grace for grace.
17 For the law was given through Moses, but grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.
John 1:14-17 NKJV

 

[dafydd]

Thank you for patiently considering what I wrote Stove. Bless the Lord , at least we have one common agreement Jesus did NOT teach or utter the word GRACE . This itself should alarm the Churches who have taught doctrine of saved by grace alone through faith alone past 500 years.
Regarding your question about What I ( Rajesh Sahu) think of what is Grace. That's of course one-man out of 8 billion ( earth population ) people's views .
Well if you scrutinize my posts Stove , almost 600 of them, my reliance is on WHAT Christ taught . Above all writers in NT. There is a good reason for that . Jesus . As always Jesus
Jesus warns us in John 13:16 that ( paraphrasing) Not one writer is greater than HIM. That includes Paul with His multiple books
Now let us diligently examine WHAT criteria did Christ use on the FINAL day of judgment. This exposes further the monumental error we were taught. At the same time it gives a CRYSTAL CLEAR picture WHAT criteria will Christ use on the day of judgment to SAVE or CONDEMN.
I'm talking about Matthew 25:31-46
Before we read it I'll remind here all readers here about the WARNING of the Christ regarding HIS SPOKEN WORDS. He says the universe can crash burn and disappear but all my words will HAPPEN ..come to pass ( I paraphrased, my apologies ) Matthew 24:35

Now keeping that caveat of Christ let us examine what will happen on the day of judgement as Christ revealed
Matthew 25:31–46

ESV

The Final Judgment

31 i“When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit on his glorious throne. 32 Before him will be gathered all the nations, and he will separate people one from another as a shepherd separates nthe sheep from the goats. 33 And he will place the sheep on his right, but the goats on the left. 34 Then othe King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. 35 For vI was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, xI was a stranger and you welcomed me, 36 vI was naked and you clothed me, I was sick and you visited me, I was in prison and you came to me.’ 37 Then the righteous will answer him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you drink? 38 And when did we see you a stranger and welcome you, or naked and clothe you? 39 And when did we see you sick or in prison and visit you?’ 40 And the King will answer them, c‘Truly, I say to you, as you did it to one of the least of these my brothers,6 you did it to me.’

41 “Then he will say to those on his left, e‘Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For iI was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me no drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not welcome me, naked and you did not clothe me, sick and in prison and you did not visit me.’ 44 Then they also will answer, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to you?’ 45 Then he will answer them, saying, ‘Truly, I say to you, as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to me.’ 46 And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the
righteous into eternal life


Did you get it Stove . Jesus is providing the answer you asked me . This judgment day VISION Christ provided explains WHAT GRACE... is if anything. It was WORKS of Loving-compassion. Yup it was all along a WORK BASED salvation that the SON of God taught .

All those , the SHEEP (on the day of judgment) who practiced LOVING COMPASSION were saved exactly as Christ had taught. Check Matthew 22:37-40, Matthew 7:12, Luke 10:25-28
But those ( Goats) who merely BELIEVED but did not OBEY Christ ( practice loving-kindness were REJECTED with harsh words of condemnation. They GAVE GRACE to the poor broken and sick and hungry and RECEIVED GRACE ( from Christ)
in consonance and harmony with what the Father and the Son taught ....what you sow you shall reap...
Bottom line : GRACE will be GIVEN to those who GAVE GRACE to others and thereby fulfilled the Law of God and teachings of the Prophets.
That's GRACE for me brother Stove.... WORKS OF LOVING COMPASSION .
Before I end this post I wish to lovingly/ kindly remind . The judgment day VISION provided by Christ Himself CANNOT change. Grace as defined by Paul and the Churches was rejected in totality by Christ who USED the criteria HE ( JESUS) had taught before and after resurrection ( Matthew 22:37-40, Matthew 7:12, Luke 10:25-28)
Also take a gander at Christ's repeated warnings on OBEDIENCE as an absolute requirement for Salvation..... moments before getting crucified
John 14:15, John 14:21, John 14:23, John 14:24 and the Baptist's warning in John 3:36 NASB
Faith is good IF it leads to GOOD WORKS ( the sheep) exactly as
James the brother of Jesus warned. Else it's "useless"
" Faith is DEAD without GOOD WORKS"
That's precisely what Christ used on the day of judgement ... Good works of loving kindness

This is the judgment of the NATIONS. In the Bible, the nations are those who are outside of the people of God. Notice that those of the "nations" who are saved are those who did good to "the least" of Christ's followers. Because Christians have Christ within through the Holy Spirit, whatever someone outside the Christian community does to someone within it is actually acting toward Christ through that Christian person. Those of the nations who are saved are not saved because they were kind and loving, but because they were kind and loving toward CHRIST (as manifested in his followers). A good example of this is a group of moderate Indonesian Moslems who heard of a plan by radical Moslems to attack a Christian community. The moderates warned the Christians and saved their lives, however the moderates themselves were caught by the radicals and crucified outside the mosque. I believe that these moderates were saved by their action because what they did for the Christians was seen by God as being done for Christ.