Paul said there is "one baptism"

[Hopeful]

Baptism
Immersed in the word of God.

That would be a "baptism in the word of God".
Some, for reasons unknown, want to use it as a substitute for water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sins.

There is a lot of information about the natural creation work. A lot of it is in the last part of the book of Job (when God speaks).
We can be immersed in the natural.

We can be immersed in a good magazine article.
Or even a food fight.

We can find a lot of strange symbolic sections of visions (Ezekiel is one area).
We can be immersed in this symbolic area.
If we rightly divide the Word of God, both areas exist. To parallel the two areas correctly is a goal. A very difficult goal at times. Humanly impossible? The first birth lacks the power of the second birth. Even the second birth awaits the changes at the last trump.

Just be careful not to let symbolism blind you to reality.

 

[eddif]

That is all very nice, but has strayed from the topic I wrote about.
Is our "turn from" sin, and remission of same, symbolic of something else to you?

The dominion of sin.

eddif

 

[Hopeful]

I'm against anything that demands works for salvation. They won't say that, but that's what they are doing.

It's the mindset of why works must be done, not the actual works.

Paul made it very clear the we are saved by Grace through faith and not of works.

In fact, he said it can't be both works and Grace, one cancels out the other.

The only "works" Paul ever wrote against were the works of the Law...ie, circumcision, dietary rules, feast keeping, sabbath keeping, tithing, etc.
By the grace of God we have been furnished with the ways and means of salvation.
They involve more that sitting on our hands with faith

 

[Hopeful]

The dominion of sin.

eddif

More like... the end of sin's dominion.

 

[Highway54]

I'm against anything that demands works for salvation. They won't say that, but that's what they are doing.

It's the mindset of why works must be done, not the actual works.

Paul made it very clear the we are saved by Grace through faith and not of works.

In fact, he said it can't be both works and Grace, one cancels out the other.

No sir, James most definitely did not contradict Paul. You understanding is flawed. Fact is we have agreed, and you could not show otherwise as I gave you the opportunity, but you still want to argue against James, even though he was an inspired Bible penman, you are not Charlie. I will continue to accept the Bible over opinion any day Charlie.

 

[Charlie24]

The only "works" Paul ever wrote against were the works of the Law...ie, circumcision, dietary rules, feast keeping, sabbath keeping, tithing, etc.
By the grace of God we have been furnished with the ways and means of salvation.
They involve more that sitting on our hands with faith

Paul wrote more about the works of the flesh than anything else.

Sitting on your hands in faith is how the Holy Spirit can take control in leading us in His works, not our works which God will not accept. If our works are not planned for us by Him, then we have accomplished nothing.

We don't decide to do what we think are good works! Christ died on the Cross to condemn sin in the flesh, that the righteousness of the Law might fulfilled in us. Rom. 8:4.

It's the Holy Spirit that leads us in that righteousness, not us!

 

[Charlie24]

No sir, James most definitely did not contradict Paul. You understanding is flawed. Fact is we have agreed, and you could not show otherwise as I gave you the opportunity, but you still want to argue against James, even though he was an inspired Bible penman, you are not Charlie. I will continue to accept the Bible over opinion any day Charlie.

I have to admit I'm not a great fan of James. Although at his worst he was still a much better Christian than myself.

James was the head pastor of the Church in Jerusalem, and he made the final decisions on any given matter.

At the Council in Jerusalem, when the apostles came together to decide if the Gentiles who were being saved were to keep the Law of Moses, James failed in my opinion, which led to even a greater failure concerning Paul.

James' decision was that the Gentiles were not to be held to the Law, but it should have been the same for the Jews. That is what Paul was taking all the heat for, and James did not side with Paul on this issue!

In fact, the believing Jews that hounded Paul came from the Church in Jerusalem. James could have helped with that but he didn't. James was very slow in letting go of the Law as Paul had already done.

 

[Hopeful]

Paul wrote more about the works of the flesh than anything else.

Perhaps, and he also listed them in 1 Cor 6 and Gal 5.
Those works of the flesh will cause many to go to the lake of fire.
On the other hand, the works of the Law that the Judaizers were trying to bring to the church were of no value for salvation.
Circumcision was the main thing, but Paul also downgraded dietary rules, and feast keeping, and sabbath keeping, etc.
None of which can enable salvation.

Sitting on your hands in faith is how the Holy Spirit can take control in leading us in His works, not our works which God will not accept. If our works are not planned for us by Him, then we have accomplished nothing.

That is a dead faith.
I prefer to use my faith to turn from sin and get baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sins.
And to endure faithfully sinless until the end of my life.

We don't decide to do what we think are good works! Christ died on the Cross to condemn sin in the flesh, that the righteousness of the Law might fulfilled in us. Rom. 8:4.

Who gives to the poor?
Who provides the ride to a doctor for a sick neighbor?
Who teaches men about faith?

It's the Holy Spirit that leads us in that righteousness, not us!

We do have to follow, which come so errantly call "work".

 

[eddif]

but Paul also downgraded dietary rules, and feast keeping, and sabbath keeping, etc.
None of which can enable salvation.

Matthew 4:3 kjv
3. And when the tempter came to him, he said, If thou be the Son of God, command that these stones be made bread.
4. But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

The seed stands for the word of God.

Hidden in talk about food in the law is a type and shadow of what Jesus used for his food.

John 4:32. Kjv
32. But he said unto them, I have meat to eat that ye know not of.


Paul did not down play the reference to the hidden meaning in the law. he mentioned it so we could understand the real hidden message of the law.

Colossians 2:16 kjv
16. Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
17. Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

Romans 7:13 kjv
13. Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.
14. For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

Romans 3:20 kjv
20. Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

So we (in a sense) are back to the water Baptism of John the Baptist.

Immersed in the knowledge of sin (from the law) we find out about our sin.

From the hidden message of the Messiah (in the law), we learn of salvation to come.

The law in heart brings knowledge of sin. Desperately wicked and deceitful heart to be changed.

The law in mind to bring light to the eyes of our understanding of the hope of our calling in Christ.

Mississippi redneck
eddif

 

[Hopeful]

Matthew 4:3 kjv
3. And when the tempter came to him, he said, If thou be the Son of God, command that these stones be made bread.
4. But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.
The seed stands for the word of God.

It can. (Though seed wasn't even mentioned in your verses).
But not every mention of seed has to infer the word of God.
Sometimes seed is just seed.

Hidden in talk about food in the law is a type and shadow of what Jesus used for his food.
John 4:32. Kjv
32. But he said unto them, I have meat to eat that ye know not of
Paul did not down play the reference to the hidden meaning in the law. he mentioned it so we could understand the real hidden message of the law.
Colossians 2:16 kjv
16. Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
17. Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.
Romans 7:13 kjv
13. Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.
14. For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
Romans 3:20 kjv
20. Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
So we (in a sense) are back to the water Baptism of John the Baptist.

Finally !

Immersed in the knowledge of sin (from the law) we find out about our sin.
From the hidden message of the Messiah (in the law), we learn of salvation to come.
The law in heart brings knowledge of sin. Desperately wicked and deceitful heart to be changed.
The law in mind to bring light to the eyes of our understanding of the hope of our calling in Christ.

What about the baptism you mentioned?
You derailed your own post.
Neither the water baptism of John unto repentance and the remission of sins, nor our water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, are in or of the Law.

 

[eddif]

It can. (Though seed wasn't even mentioned in your verses).
But not every mention of seed has to infer the word of God.
Sometimes seed is just seed.

Finally !

What about the baptism you mentioned?
You derailed your own post.
Neither the water baptism of John unto repentance and the remission of sins, nor our water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, are in or of the Law.

Matthew 3:11 kjv
11. I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:
12. Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.
Water baptism I see by John for repentance.

Show me the water baptism in the name of Jesus. (Of which you speak)

Just as clear as the baptism of John the Baptist (was water).

Was John the Baptist confused? It sure appears that the baptism of Jesus was a different sort of baptism. You mentioned baptism/immersion into a food fight once?

Jesus spoke of a fan, wheat, garner. I do not look for a baptism ceremony with these elements, but using symbolism the Lords Supper has cooked wheat?

Symbols speak in the Old Testament, but they speak in a different way.

Jesus said seed is equal to the word of God.

Baptism (IMHO) can be:
Water
Fire
Holy Spirit
Other? Suffering?

The parable of the sower explains why Jesus spoke in parables.

Mississippi redneck
eddif

 

[eddif]

This thread may eventually help me.
Saved by water:
The evaporation of water at the end of Noah’s flood, seems to be a type of the resurrection and assent of Jesus to the right hand of the Father (into the clouds).

Thanks Peter.

The water on earth immersed. The water evaporated caused the rainbow of promise.

Birth by water and the birth by becoming spirit. Immersed in spirit?

Gods thoughts are sure greater than my thoughts.

Mississippi redneck
eddif

 

[JLB]

Jesus promised to send a helper, likely you recognize that the helper was the holy spirit. That account is recorded for us in Acts chap 2 beginning in verse 1. It was not a person. It is not part of a triune god.

The Holy Spirit is not part of the Triune Godhead?

Here is the members of the Triune Godhead;

The Father
The Son
The Holy Spirit

God the Father is Spirit.

The Son, (Word) is the Spirit of Christ. He became flesh.

The Holy Spirit

Each member of the Godhead is Spirit.


These three are one.


The Spirit is indeed a Divine Person.

The Spirit speaks.

As they ministered to the Lord and fasted, the Holy Spirit said, “Now separate to Me Barnabas and Saul for the work to which I have called them.” Acts 13:2

The Holy Spirit had assigned work for Paul and Barnabus to which He would lead them and direct them.





JLB

 

[Highway54]

I have to admit I'm not a great fan of James. Although at his worst he was still a much better Christian than myself.

James was the head pastor of the Church in Jerusalem, and he made the final decisions on any given matter.

At the Council in Jerusalem, when the apostles came together to decide if the Gentiles who were being saved were to keep the Law of Moses, James failed in my opinion, which led to even a greater failure concerning Paul.

James' decision was that the Gentiles were not to be held to the Law, but it should have been the same for the Jews. That is what Paul was taking all the heat for, and James did not side with Paul on this issue!

In fact, the believing Jews that hounded Paul came from the Church in Jerusalem. James could have helped with that but he didn't. James was very slow in letting go of the Law as Paul had already done.

James was an anointed Christian who addressed the problem of those teaching similar to yourself. You accurately stated in agreement the reason why you post, your works reflect your faith. It is as simple as that. We Christians obey God because we love Him sir 1 Jn 5:3. I fail to see why the continued debate about areas where we agree? Why do you suppose that is Charlie? Because we JW's believe the same way as you? It will happen on many things, and we of course will disagree on others.

 

[eddif]

The Holy Spirit is not part of the Triune Godhead?

Here is the members of the Triune Godhead;

The Father
The Son
The Holy Spirit

God the Father is Spirit.

The Son, (Word) is the Spirit of Christ. He became flesh.

The Holy Spirit

Each member of the Godhead is Spirit.


These three are one.


The Spirit is indeed a Divine Person.

The Spirit speaks.

As they ministered to the Lord and fasted, the Holy Spirit said, “Now separate to Me Barnabas and Saul for the work to which I have called them.” Acts 13:2

The Holy Spirit had assigned work for Paul and Barnabus to which He would lead them and direct them.





JLB

Very interesting.
Matthew 6:10 kjv
10. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.

The Holy Soirit helped complete man be a living soul at creation.

Mark was a help on earth to Paul.. The Holy Spirit is our helper.

Mississippi redneck
eddif

 

[JLB]

The Holy Spirit is our helper.

Amen.

 

[Hopeful]

Matthew 3:11 kjv
11. I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:
12. Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.
Water baptism I see by John for repentance.

Unto repentance, not "for" repentance.
And "for" the remission of sins..."John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins." (Mark 1:4)

Show me the water baptism in the name of Jesus. (Of which you speak)

Acts 2:38..."Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost."
Acts 8:36..."And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?"
Acts 10:47-48..."Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days."
Acts 22:16..."And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord."
1 Cor 6:11..."And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

Was John the Baptist confused? It sure appears that the baptism of Jesus was a different sort of baptism. You mentioned baptism/immersion into a food fight once?

It was different, as John's baptism unto repentance and remission of sins didn't use the name of Jesus Christ.
That is really the only difference though.

Jesus spoke of a fan, wheat, garner. I do not look for a baptism ceremony with these elements, but using symbolism the Lords Supper has cooked wheat?

You seem to be easily distracted from the topic at hand.

Symbols speak in the Old Testament, but they speak in a different way.
Jesus said seed is equal to the word of God.

Is this a new thread?

Baptism (IMHO) can be:
Water
Fire
Holy Spirit
Other? Suffering?

Yes, as "baptism" means...immersed, or, fully whelmed.
A baptism could be with anything.
But we are only talking about the water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sins.

The parable of the sower explains why Jesus spoke in parables.

OK.
Somethings are not parables, but if you keep looking for more than the obvious you will be blind to the obvious.