Paul clearly stated his thoughts on baptism in Romans 6:4, "Therefore we were buried with him by baptism into death, so that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, so we also might walk in newness of life."
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Paul said there is "one baptism"
- Thread starter Charlie24
- Start date
That is the "circumcision made without hands" of the heart. It is the "one baptism" that Paul spoke of.
It is not water baptism!
That is simply your opinion. I disagree with it.
Again, Paul wrote, "Therefore we were buried with him by baptism into death, so that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, so we also might walk in newness of life." There is no "circumcision made without hands" mentioned, or anything even close to it. It is a symbolic burial and resurrection. The Bible, here and elsewhere, means exactly what it says.
I have explained my position over and over on water baptism.
We will just have to disagree.
Okay.
charlie, I think that you should consider that it if you are wrong, and also do not ever receive baptism in water, thinking that your baptism is spiritual only, that you will not be saved over the fact that you did not receive baptism in water.
Consider also that your teaching may also lead others not to receive baptism in water, and that if you are wrong, such people also will not be saved.
It should be clear that we must be born of water and the Spirit in order to enter the kingdom (John 3:3,5).
Consider also that your teaching may also lead others not to receive baptism in water, and that if you are wrong, such people also will not be saved.
It should be clear that we must be born of water and the Spirit in order to enter the kingdom (John 3:3,5).
This is a real interesting conversation.
Water drowns people. Go under water and you normally die.
Consider Noah’s flood.without an ark you die.
Consider Jonah. Without an ark (great fish) he would have died. Jonah was not going to preach to Those people. After the near death experience his mind was dead to some of his arrogance, and he went and preached. Those people repented.
John the Baptist preached repentance. People became aware of sin. They came up with (what must I do to be saved).
Water baptism sure seems a type of dying to sin (that we may take advantage of what Christ Jesus accomplished for us).
Spanish immersion classes teach Spanish. Greek immersion classes teach Greek. We are immersed into Christ when we understand salvation he accomplished for us.
Job was told of the angry waves. His life was spared from the attack of Satan. God said you can touch his life but not kill him. Job was in a protected bubble of sorts (an ark).
In Christ we are in an ark. We go through the valley of the shadow of death. The rod and staff comfort is.
I will make other comments if anyone wishes.
Others have gotten very close to what I am posting. It only took 40 years to develop these thoughts. Many Dun kings to kill some of my flesh.
Repentance leaves us with a great need. Jesus is the solution to our understanding the sin of man.
Mississippi redneck
eddif
Water drowns people. Go under water and you normally die.
Consider Noah’s flood.without an ark you die.
Consider Jonah. Without an ark (great fish) he would have died. Jonah was not going to preach to Those people. After the near death experience his mind was dead to some of his arrogance, and he went and preached. Those people repented.
John the Baptist preached repentance. People became aware of sin. They came up with (what must I do to be saved).
Water baptism sure seems a type of dying to sin (that we may take advantage of what Christ Jesus accomplished for us).
Spanish immersion classes teach Spanish. Greek immersion classes teach Greek. We are immersed into Christ when we understand salvation he accomplished for us.
Job was told of the angry waves. His life was spared from the attack of Satan. God said you can touch his life but not kill him. Job was in a protected bubble of sorts (an ark).
In Christ we are in an ark. We go through the valley of the shadow of death. The rod and staff comfort is.
I will make other comments if anyone wishes.
Others have gotten very close to what I am posting. It only took 40 years to develop these thoughts. Many Dun kings to kill some of my flesh.
Repentance leaves us with a great need. Jesus is the solution to our understanding the sin of man.
Mississippi redneck
eddif
As there is more than one baptism, five or six that I can think of in OT and NT, it seems clear that Paul's "one baptism"[ is only in the context of Eph 4.
Paul lists a lot things from Eph 4:3 to Eph 4:11 that all have one thing in common.
They were all gift from God.
The "one baptism" given by God is the gift of the Holy Ghost...also called Spirit baptism.
It will be given after water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sins, (Acts 2:38), as the Spirit of God will not reside in a polluted "temple".
Greek Baptism IMHO can be
A ship sinking
Immersion in alcohol
Immersed in fear
Immersed in Christ
In fire
In the Holy Spirit
One definition of immersion (totally surrounded by the thing that you are experiencing/learning).
One concept of baptism, but applied to many things. Immersion is not just a minor thing. The day of Pentecost was not a sample, but an immersion.
These things are hard on redneck minds
eddif
Highway54
Member
Might you prove your false accusation against my faith sir? I don't believe you are ignorant of our teachings on it any longer, I believe you are deliberately trying to get others to believe we teach that. So simply copy/paste it from our publications Charlie.
The JW's are very clever in the upper echelon. So I will ask you, Robert!
Why does this upper echelon make it a requirement and not a choice to visit others with their version of the Gospel?
Is it mandatory for salvation that you do so? Would this be considered works for salvation?
Yep, "fully whelmed", or, "immersed"
I agree, but is that accomplished with water baptism?
Yep, the proof of the FC's (First Christians) having been cleansed of sin...(somehow).
As Peter proved when he said that after repentance and water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, others would also receive the gift of the Holy Ghost...(also called Spirit baptism) (Acts 2:38)
The repentance understanding IMHO is symbolized by water baptism. We completely see out sin. Are symbols nothing? No we respect symbols.
Jesus taught the parable of the sower to the crowds, but in private he explained the greater meaning to the disciples.
Water baptism does not save us though. Water baptism is about understanding repentance.
Mississippi redneck
eddif
They are two different things.
Repent: Turn from, or, change.
Water baptism (in the name of Jesus Christ) is for the remitting of past sins.
If our turn from sin and remission of same is an actual event, there is no symbolism.
OK.
I disagree with both of your POVs.
We can't be converted and continue to carry around all our past sins, and turning from sins is essential to walking in the light.
Will those who walk in darkness be saved on the day of judgement?
No.
If the word of God is planted in us (heart) it can bear fruit if the ground of our heart is good. That is an event.
If seed are planted in a good ground situation, they will grow a plant that can bear fruit.
That is an event.
Jesus explained the parallel (of the sower) to the disciples in private.
Romans 1:20 kjv
20. For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
21. Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
Two events. Two events paralleled. Two events explained together in Matthew13, Mark4, Luke 8.
Creation tells the whole story, but it is hidden in symbolism. Romans 1:21 says the hidden was denied (if you think about it). The explanation of the parable of the sower is a call to think. It is a call to compare creation with ultimate spiritual reality.
I could not understand these thoughts for years and years. I do not judge those who do not see this.
Walking through the agriculture museum in Jackson Mississippi helped some. The bovine 4 stomachs helped me see the stages of digestion. Our thinking process goes through stages of understanding. If we deny creation reality we become darkened in our understanding. I am probably the chief offender.
This is intended to help, but it can be seen in other ways.
Mississippi redneck
eddif
Baptism
Immersed in the word of God.
There is a lot of information about the natural creation work. A lot of it is in the last part of the book of Job (when God speaks).
We can be immersed in the natural.
We can find a lot of strange symbolic sections of visions (Ezekiel is one area).
We can be immersed in this symbolic area.
If we rightly divide the Word of God, both areas exist. To parallel the two areas correctly is a goal. A very difficult goal at times. Humanly impossible? The first birth lacks the power of the second birth. Even the second birth awaits the changes at the last trump.
eddif
Immersed in the word of God.
There is a lot of information about the natural creation work. A lot of it is in the last part of the book of Job (when God speaks).
We can be immersed in the natural.
We can find a lot of strange symbolic sections of visions (Ezekiel is one area).
We can be immersed in this symbolic area.
If we rightly divide the Word of God, both areas exist. To parallel the two areas correctly is a goal. A very difficult goal at times. Humanly impossible? The first birth lacks the power of the second birth. Even the second birth awaits the changes at the last trump.
eddif
Highway54
Member
I knew you would not be able to, since we teach that salvation is a gift from God. We do not disagree with James however, as you should not either, nor Jesus.
I don't think you are ignorant of our assignment from Jesus as well, Mat 28:19,20 nor the example the disciples set Acts 5:42; 20:20. So let me ask, why are you seemingly against it Charlie?
I'm against anything that demands works for salvation. They won't say that, but that's what they are doing.
It's the mindset of why works must be done, not the actual works.
Paul made it very clear the we are saved by Grace through faith and not of works.
In fact, he said it can't be both works and Grace, one cancels out the other.
Very good
The seed buried dies to itself (old self), and becomes a new creation.
Is the new creation perfect?
Lack of rain
Insects
No sunshine
Lack of fertilizer/nutrients
Flood waters
Plant eaters
Blight
More
The plant we become is not perfect?
Temptations
Attacks of Satan
Demons
False doctrine
Persecution
Wrong thinking
What is written inside us has to thrive. The law written in our hearts and minds are to help us overcome problems. We are like ground. Jesus works in us.
We are both in Christ, and Christ in us.
We started out as gardeners in Eden .
We wind up helping others grow fruit. Insect bitten tired, but inspired ourselves.
Mississippi redneck
eddif
That is all very nice, but has strayed from the topic I wrote about.
Is our "turn from" sin, and remission of same, symbolic of something else to you?