Perdition's Population Clock

[Beetow]

.
Canadian folk singer Gordon Lightfoot released a sentimental song back in 1975
that speaks volumes about sympathy. Its lyrics are very touching. Here's a few that
I feel especially appropriate when talking about things like sickness, death, and the
hereafter.

Rainy day people always seem to know when it's time to call.
Rainy day people don't talk, they just listen till they've heard it all.
Rainy day lovers don't lie when they tell 'ya they've been down like you.
Rainy day people don't mind if you're cryin' a tear or two.

I sometimes wonder how much sympathy one can expect in the fiery netherworld.
I mean; sure they'll understand how we might feel about the unfortunate
circumstances in life that led us down there, but once you're there, everyone's
pretty much in the same boat and the others are all longing for sympathy too.

In point of fact, I'd not be surprised if the competition for sympathy down there is
on the level of dog eat dog; and likely a fair number of sympathy hoarders
demanding total market share of it. I can just hear their feigned indignity; like this:

"Oh, stop whining already! Don't be such a baby. I deserve a lot more pity than
you. I've been down here for two millennia and you've only been down here for a
decade. What've you got to cry about? You should be grateful that your time down
here is shorter than mine."

I'd imagine that after a few years in that place the only sympathy that people can
feel after a while is sympathy for themselves because nobody is getting out down
there; they're all lifers so it's not unlikely that the only humanity that inmates pay
forward in that place is misery.
_

 

[Beetow]

.
● 1Cor 1:26 . . Remember, dear brothers and sisters, that few of you were wise in
the world's eyes, or powerful, or wealthy when God called you.

Our unity with Christ isn't an achievement like a Nobel prize in chemistry nor as if
one ran for public office or climbed a corporate ladder. None of us would have a
place in God's family circle were it not for His generosity.

● 1Cor 1:30 . . God alone made it possible for you to be in Christ Jesus. He made
Christ to be wisdom itself for our benefit; he is the one who made us acceptable to
God. He made us pure and holy, and he gave himself to purchase our freedom.

NOTE: If there's a Devil, then I think we can safely assume he's been doing his best
to make it impossible be in Christ; but God's free will trumps the Devils' free will
along with everybody else's free will.

Education and/or a high IQ have their uses; but are inadequate when it comes to
spiritual matters. In point of fact, too many smarts can actually be an impediment.
Take for example Carl Sagan. Had his IQ been a spiritual advantage, then Carl
would've stood on the side of intelligent design instead of opposing it.
_

 

[Beetow]

.
● 2Cor 5:11 . . Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men

The Greek word translated "knowing" means to know firsthand, viz: by experience
rather than by education and/or instruction.

In other words: there were incidents at various times in the lives of Paul and his
contemporaries when God scared 'em out of their wits.

Well; there's nothing like a good old fashioned close encounter of a third kind to
convince even the most resistant skeptics; and Paul's history attests that his was a
really stubborn case.

Of course if any of us were to claim we've experienced the terror of the Lord, we'd
be singled out as kooks and crackpots; but for some of us, fright is the only
persuasion that works; for example:

When I was working as a professional welder for the US Army Corps of Engineers,
we had weekly and monthly safety meetings wherein we were shown some grisly
photographs of real life industrial accidents involving burns, chain saws, punctured
eyes, explosions, falls, crane collapses, suffocation, crushing, and the like.

Let me tell you: those safety meetings got our attention, and really made a sharp
distinction between the fool and the wise.

● Luke 12:4-5 . . And I say unto you my friends; Be not afraid of them that kill the
body, and after that have no more that they can do. But I will forewarn you whom
ye shall fear: Fear Him, which after He hath killed hath power to cast into Hell; yea,
I say unto you fear Him.

A Danger Foreseen;
Is Half-Avoided.
Cheyenne Proverb

POP CLOCK UPDATE: 160 days have transpired since beginning the thread. If the
figures in post No.1 are within reason, then something like 12,280,320 new arrivals
have checked into the fiery sector of Hades since Dec 15, 2024.
_

 

[Beetow]

.
I must be slow-witted because I realized only just recently that everybody unified
with Christ will be in the rapture, nobody among his own are going to miss it.

Those still alive at the time won't be taken up as early birds. No, the living will have
to wait till the deceased are restored to life first and then all together take the
elevator in unison, i.e. at the same time-- none will go ahead and none will fall
behind.

Just about everybody in the modern world knows there's such a thing as the
rapture, but does everybody in the modern world know why there's a rapture at all?
Well, it's basically an evacuation.

For example Rev 16:17-18 predicts a global earthquake so powerful on the Richter
scale that cities all over the world will collapse at once.

Something like 2,829 lost their lives when the World Trade Center was demolished
by a terrorist attack in 2001. Well that was only a few acres of New York City. Just
imagine the body count when all of Manhattan comes down at once. along with
other major cities like Los Angeles, San Francisco, Mexico City, Paris, Moscow,
Beijing, Tokyo, et al. The carnage will be beyond belief; and that's just one of the
many life-threatening events set to take place.
_

 

[Beetow]

.
Years ago it wasn't unusual to be called a religious fanatic for believing the Genesis
account of the creation of Man. Well; recently somebody online called me an
ignorant bigot because I stand by the Bible's physical gender designations and
refuse to accept the new political designations, e.g. gender fluid, and non binary, et
al.

Do they honestly believe that the One who intelligently designed the cosmos-- all of
its forms of life, matter, and energy --won't have the last word on gender identity?

● Ps 2:1-5 . . Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing? The
kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against The
Lord, and against His anointed, saying: Let us break their bands asunder, and cast
away their cords from us. He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh: The Lord shall
have them in derision. Then shall He speak unto them in His wrath, and vex them
in His sore displeasure.
_

 

[Beetow]

.
● John 3:16 . . For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son,
that whosoever believes in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

The love in that passage is translated from a Greek verb that expresses compassion
for the world without particularly liking anybody. In other words: that kind of love is
civil and sympathetic but doesn't necessarily express fondness or affection.

FAQ: God in His wrath condemns folks to the fiery netherworld while at the same
time feeling pity for them?

REPLY: God forbid that He be one to obstruct justice by letting His feelings overrule
and/or outweigh the facts. No doubt God would rather be kind than cruel; but
sometimes circumstances just won't permit.
_

 

[Beetow]

.
Apple Computer co-founder Steve Jobs once said (in so many words) that people
don't know what they want till it's shown them. Steve may not've been as proficient
with electronics as his pal Woz, but I gotta say: Jobs was one heck of a promoter.

People imprisoned on the wrong side of the netherworld are doubtless aware of at
least their loss of creature comforts; but I'm not so sure they know about the bulk
of their loss because not even that many Christians are aware of all they've gained
by their unity with Christ.

Christ's believing followers have been adopted into God's family circle, thus making
them eligible for an inheritance.

● Rom 8:14-17 . . For you have not received a spirit of slavery leading to fear
again, but you have received a spirit of adoption as sons by which we cry out:
Abba! Father! The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children
of God, and if children, heirs also, heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ. (cf. Gal
4:4-7, Eph 1:4-5)

Point being: folks stuck in perdition are wretched paupers in the afterlife, whereas
everyone unified with Christ is wealthy and privileged beyond imagination.
_

 

[Fish153]

.
● Rev 20:13 . . I saw the dead, and they were judged, every one of them

That verse says that "every one" of them were judged. Well; I don't know precisely
how many every one will eventually number, but let's say that it's 100,000.

If each of these 100,000 cases were to take an hour to complete, we'd be looking
at roughly 4,167 calendar days, i.e. 11½ years-- that's if the judging by a solo
judge goes around the clock 24/7/365.

According to Daniel 7:13-14, John 5:22-3, and Acts 17:31, Messiah has been
designated to preside at the event. However, there's reason to suggest that he
won't be handling every case himself.

● 1Cor 6:2-3 . . Do you not know that the saints will judge the world? And if the
world is judged by you, are you not competent to constitute the smallest law
courts? Do you not know that we shall judge angels? (cf. Matt 12:28)

Moses was assisted in his judicial duties by a select group of Jewish men. (Ex
18:17-26) It's possible that certain among Messiah's followers will be recruited to
serve as judges with him in the same manner, which would expedite his case load
considerably.

There's a few points related to that scene worth special mention.

1) According to Jude 1:14-15 the dead will be given a fair trial.

2) According to Matt 12:36, every word that the dead have spoken will be used as
evidence both against them and/or for them; not just their serious words, but also
their careless words.

3) The scene doesn't depict one future out of a variety of possible futures; no, it
depicts the actual future.
_

Just to mention. The Judgment most likely will be outside of time. God is infinite so he is not held to a clock. God could judge 50 trillion people in the snap of a finger if he wanted to. Think if you put a measure of time for each person Jesus died for on the cross. He would be on the cross for years! But Jesus died for billions of souls within the span he was on the cross. God's wrath (or "judgment") fell on Jesus for EVERY PERSON who has ever lived, or will ever live. If we accept him we will NOT be judged as we were already judged when Jesus took the wrath for us! So time has nothing to do with Judgment.

 

[Beetow]

.
FAQ: The Bible says that a Christian's life on earth terminates the day they come to
faith in Christ; and from then on, God stops keeping a record of their sins. (Rom
6:3-7, Col 3:3, and 2Cor 5:19). What about the afterlife? What's to be done about
the sins Christians commit there?

REPLY: They won't be committing any sins in the next life because of a special
procedure performed by the hand of God per Col 2:11 that removes the sinful core
of their being.

* It must be very devastating when folks below find out too late about that
procedure; and also when they find out too late about Jeremiah 31:31-34 and
Ezekiel 36:24-27 which, according to the language, would've rendered them easily
righteous enough to associate with God permanently.

POP CLOCK UPDATE: 165 days have transpired since beginning the thread. If the
figures in post No.1 are within reason, then something like 12,664,080 new arrivals
have checked into the fiery sector of Hades since Dec 15, 2024.
_

 

[Beetow]

.
Jesus sacrificed his life for the whole world; not just part of the world, rather;
everybody who has ever lived, and everybody who will ever live, down to the last
born on Earth. That says quite a bit about how Jesus feels about some of us.

For example: He may not like me-- at all. In point of fact Jesus just may quite
despise me, and candidly declare that I am not the kind of people with whom he
cares to associate. Nevertheless, Jesus went to the cross for me too in spite of any
disgust he might feel for me as a person.

Now, as I said-- in so many words --Jesus may not be especially fond of me, but
there's no doubt in my mind that he at least cares for me. So I played upon his
Father's sympathies back in February of 1968 when I prayed a very selfish prayer
that went something like this:

"God; I know I'm a sinner. I would like to take advantage of your son's death."

Seeing as how Jesus gave his life for the whole world, then God couldn't very well
refuse my request; now could He.

● Rom 5:6-8 . . Christ died for the impious. Very rarely will anyone die for a
righteous man, though for a good man someone might possibly dare to die. But
God demonstrates His own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ
died for us.
_

 

[Beetow]

.
Seeing as how God is perpetual, all powerful, and answers to no one how He goes
about conducting His affairs; then what He says goes. Nobody can stop Him from
making and/or enforcing whatever rules He wishes because God's free will trumps
everybody else's free will.

Whether God's ways and means are loving, moral, just, and/or right and wise
doesn't matter. It's as futile to criticize lightning for being so bright, thunder for
being so loud, lava for being so hot, and typhoons for blowing so hard as it is to
find fault with God's processes and procedures because no matter how much people
complain about thunder, lightning, lava, and typhoons; there is nothing they can do
to stop those forces of nature from going about their business.
_

 

[Beetow]

.
For many of us working stiffs, the first day on a new job is stressful and quite an
adjustment. The night before that first day can cause enough anxiety to keep us
awake worrying about what we might expect.

I'd imagine that, whether we end up in the right place or the wrong place in the
afterlife, we will be just as stressed on our first day there as the first day here on a
new job.

The anxiety associated with death is to be expected seeing as how most of us have
no experience at all with that particular journey. But I think the majority of my
anxiety in regards to death is related to what comes after. Pity there are no guide
books available in print to prepare folks in advance for the culture-shock tsunami
with which both sides of the aisle are sure to be slammed: a guide for Hell and one
for Heaven.
_

 

[hawkman]

Pity there are no guide
books available in print to prepare folks in advance for the culture-shock tsunami
with which both sides of the aisle are sure to be slammed: a guide for Hell and one
for Heaven.

Culture shock of arriving in heaven ? I am sure there will be no "culture shock tsunami " with God already knowing exactly how we think and operate , a place is prepared for us .

Or do you have scripture that would point to this "Culture shock tsunami " upon arriving in heaven ?

 

[Beetow]

Or do you have scripture that would point to this "Culture shock tsunami " upon arriving in heaven ?

No scripture.
_

 

[hawkman]

No scripture.
_

Thank you Beetow .

There is some mystery about heaven that no one has even had to enter into their heart ! Because that is exactly what Paul tells us in 1Cor 2 . As a Christian we have so much to look forward to with our eternity to come !

7But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:
8Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.
9But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.

Paul said "as it is written " so we usually can go find where Paul read this from and it is in Isaiah 64:4 .
Did Paul have this Isaiah scripture memorized , that would be my thoughts .

Isaiah 64:4 Context​

1Oh that thou wouldest rend the heavens, that thou wouldest come down, that the mountains might flow down at thy presence, 2As when the melting fire burneth, the fire causeth the waters to boil, to make thy name known to thine adversaries, that the nations may tremble at thy presence! 3When thou didst terrible things which we looked not for, thou camest down, the mountains flowed down at thy presence. 4For since the beginning of the world men have not heard, nor perceived by the ear, neither hath the eye seen, O God, beside thee, what he hath prepared for him that waiteth for him. 5Thou meetest him that rejoiceth and worketh righteousness, those that remember thee in thy ways: behold, thou art wroth; for we have sinned: in those is continuance, and we shall be saved. 6But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away. 7And there is none that calleth upon thy name, that stirreth up himself to take hold of thee: for thou hast hid thy face from us, and hast consumed us, because of our iniquities.

 

[Beetow]

.
● Rev 20:12 . . And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the
books were opened . . . and the dead were judged out of those things which were
written in the books, according to their works.

Many of us have a lot to answer for, but God has made a way to get it all wiped.

● Rom 4:25 . . He was delivered over to death for our sins and was raised to life for
our justification.

The Greek word translated "justification" in that passage means acquittal; roughly
defined as an adjudication of innocence due to lack of sufficient evidence to convict,
viz: exoneration. In other words: by means of Christ's crucifixion and his
resurrection, God closes the believer's case and it's never reopened-- not because
it's a cold case, but because all charges against them-- those past, those now, and
those pending --were transferred to Christ.

● Isa 53:6 . .We all, like sheep, have gone astray, each of us has turned to his own
way; and The Lord has laid on him the iniquity of us all.

● 2Cor 5:19 . . God was in Christ, reconciling the world to Himself, not counting
their trespasses against them

● Rom 8:33-34 . .Who will bring any charge against those whom God has chosen?
It is God who justifies. Who is he that condemns; Christ Jesus, who died?

If perchance someone out there believes God had you in mind when Jesus went to
the cross, and are confident his crucified dead body was restored to life; then RSVP
God and let Him know you want in on this remarkable benefit to protect yourself
from retribution because we definitely do not want our sins showing up in those
books.
_

 

[Beetow]

.
● Luke 16:26a . . Between us and you a great chasm has been fixed

The barrier between Abraham's side of the netherworld and the rich man's is
curious. The Greek word is located nowhere else in the entire new testament so we
can't compare it's application in other situations.

Chasm isn't necessarily a crevasse like a gorge or a canyon. It can also represent a
marked division, separation, or difference; for example there is a political chasm
between China's communist party and China's regular citizens.

A chasm then, can be likened to the isolation of good from evil, of right from
wrong, of wise from foolish, of love from hate, of the innocent from the guilty,
and of the alive to God from the dead to God.

Anyway, this barrier in Luke's story isn't so expansive that people cannot recognize
familiar faces on the opposite side nor hear their voice. And if it's a literal gulf, then
I think it's reasonable to assume people have been trying to jump in to get away
from the flames.

The Bible says that God desires all men to be saved and that He derives no
pleasure from their misfortunes. However, once folks are lost in the netherworld,
God's attitude towards them takes quite a turn. Folks in Hell are dead to God, and
apparently He wants them to be dead to us too; even our loved ones and the BFF
for whom we care the most, i.e. personal contact with the other side for hugs and
kisses is not allowed.

● Luke 16:26b . .Those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone
cross over from there to us.

NOTE: Luke portrays only a small portion of the geography where Abraham and the
rich man conversed; suggesting that the two locations of the chasm where the men
stood are peninsulas or narrow cornices.

But I rather suspect that the barrier extends sufficient distance in either direction to
accommodate hundreds, maybe even thousands, of friends and relatives seeking to
connect with their loved ones and BFF over on the other side.

POP CLOCK UPDATE: 170 days have transpired since beginning the thread. If the
figures in post No.1 are within reason, then something like 13,047,840 new arrivals
have checked into the fiery sector of Hades since Dec 15, 2024.
_

 

[Beetow]

.
I once heard a minister tell the story of a fictional busload of Hell's inmates who
were given a 30 day furlough for some R&R in Heaven. They all came back the first
night because God's world was such a bore.

There were no wild parties, no clothing-optional beaches, no bars, no night clubs,
no porn, no escort services, no pigging-out at buffets, no fights, no profanity, no
ribaldry, no free sex, no vulgar late-night comedy, no exotic dancers, no X-rated
movies, no junk food, no tobacco, no marijuana, no meth, no ecstasy, no
oxycontin, no fentanyl, no hunting for sport, no fishing for sport, no casino
gambling, no political activism, and no civil disobedience.

And the hellsters didn't particularly care for the isolation. None of the good folk in
Heaven wanted to associate with them: they were ostracized, they were
segregated, and they were quarantined.

Heaven is a pleasant utopia. It's etiquette, its dress code, and its rules of conduct
and civility; were way too constraining for the hellsters. Especially suffocating is the
mandatory self control everyone has to exercise in their choice of words to avoid
hurting people's feelings.

Take for example Wall Street barracudas. Do you really think they'd be happy in
Heaven? Or sweat shop operators? Or influence peddlers? Or lobbyists? Or J
walking pedestrians? Or LGBTQ? Or greedy capitalists? Or unscrupulous social
networking moguls? Or cheap politicians? Or Communists? Or bookies? Or
hoarders? Or black marketeers? Or militant activists? Or Critical Race theorists? Or
1619 Project proponents? No. No. No. You see many of the interests that concern
Hell's people are unacceptable in Heaven; and in point of fact, none of Heaven's
people even want to hear about that stuff. For them that scene is over and they
don't want it back.

You know what else is lacking in Heaven? Religious tolerance. There is only one
belief system up there. What's that tell you? Well; it tells me that the establishment
clause of the US Constitution's first amendment doesn't fly in Heaven. The
theocratic monarchy in Heaven insists upon dictating everyone's religious
preference.

All in all: Heaven's utopian society, coupled with its 24/7 Big Brother oversight,
universal surveillance, and strict morality, was just simply too much to ask in
exchange for some time off. To the hellsters, Heaven was little more appealing than
a get-away in one of North Korea's prison camps.
_

 

[Beetow]

.
If there is any good thing that can be said about the netherworld: it's the great
equalizer. Political bullies like Kim Jong-Un, Adolf Hitler, Joseph Stalin, Benito
Mussolini, Xi Jinping, Fidel Castro, Mao Zedong, Idi Amin, Muammar Gaddafi,
Robert Mugabe, Pol Pot, and Saddam Hussein, et al are powerless down below;
they're just another face in the crowd.

● Isa 14:9-10 . . Sheol from beneath is excited over you to meet you when you
come. It arouses for you the spirits of the dead, all the leaders of the earth. It
raises all the kings of the nations from their thrones. They will all respond and say
to you: Even you have been made weak as we. You have become like us.

Jesus once told a parable that advises folk it's wise to exercise kindness and
generosity on this side of life because people on the other side will doubtless
remember how you treated them here. The thing is: folks should expect to be
victims of a certain amount of cruelty on the wrong side of the netherworld because
down there what's the point in being civil? So it's wise to build up a following of folk
up here who owe you a favor so that when you arrive down there, you'll have some
friends instead of only foes looking to get even.
_

 

[Beetow]

.
FAQ: The Bible thumpers say it's a "must" to believe in Christ in order to be spared
the wrath of God. How is that fair to peoples of the world who were never afforded
an opportunity to know about him?

REPLY: Not everyone is going to be judged on the basis of hearing + believing the
gospel of Christ. There are untold millions who never heard, nor will ever hear tell,
of Jesus; let alone his crucifixion for the sins of the world.

However, the beauties and complexities of nature, on earth and out in the void,
speak loudly and clearly enough that the cosmos-- all its forms of life, matter, and
energy --is the result of intelligent design. And the human conscience intuitively
knows that there is going to be a reckoning. This is what's known as the everlasting
gospel (Rev 14:6-7) and it has been preaching to men all over the globe from the
very beginning. (Ps 19:1-6, & Rom 1:18-20, & Rom 2:14-16)

According to Rom 10:18, nature itself is accounted as a gospel. This is pretty cool
because by nature's gospel, folks all over the globe-- those categorized as barbaric,
primitive, and uneducated --can qualify for God's good graces.

* Can you just imagine the indignation and outrage of an educated genius doomed
to the depths of Hell while an illiterate aboriginal with a bone in his nose is carried
aloft to the comforts of Heaven?
_