Poll: Respecting her tattoo wish

[Davies]

farouk,

I'm not a dream person but I remember one from this morning. I was a guilty criminal in a house in the country. I'd elaborate, but it was too weird. No, I didn't dream of tattoos, fshew.

- Davies

 

[farouk]

farouk,

I'm not a dream person but I remember one from this morning. I was a guilty criminal in a house in the country. I'd elaborate, but it was too weird. No, I didn't dream of tattoos, fshew.

- Davies

Davies:

I think that when it comes to tattoo designs, I'm not one to think of them in dream, idealistic terms. (Mind you, many of them are real works of art; and doing them takes a skill learned over years; the tattooist's profession is for men and women of talent.)

Instead I guess I think of them principally in terms of sheer pragmatism; they are undoubtedly part of the scenery around especially young folk and when the designs are faith related (an added bonus if they are really good art as well), then for helping faith discussions they are, beyond doubt from a pragmatic point of view, useful.

(I don't think I'm being Philistine; but my idealism focuses on the faith aspect rather than the tattoo art aspect, if you see what I mean?)

Blessings.

 

[farouk]

Also:

In the past few minutes (at least, here on my computer) an ad keeps appearing, on this Christian Forums site, from Rockville Seminary, with the phrase 'Strengthen your ministry skills' next to a picture of someone holding a Bible. The face of the person is unseen; instead, you can see a Holy Bible under an arm with a large tribal tattoo.

I'm not saying this is necessarily good, or bad or whatever.

But I guess it just goes to show that the folk at the seminary just naturally regarded men and women with visible tattoos as representative of a proportion of people that they would expect to study the Bible with their seminary.

So my further two cents':

Not, go get tattoos for their own sake. Not at all.

But lots of folk out there have them; some are Christian; for men and women with them or considering them, just think of the potential for faith related designs.

(Dunno whether the ad. comes up on everyone's computer as they refresh the screen, but it keeps coming up on mine, anyhow.)

Blessings.

 

[Fembot]

A Jesus tat is better than, let's say a naked lady tat. I wouldn't flog someone for having a tat. It doesn't make it righteous but it also is NOT my place to JUDGE...

 

[farouk]

A Jesus tat is better than, let's say a naked lady tat. I wouldn't flog someone for having a tat. It doesn't make it righteous but it also is NOT my place to JUDGE...

Fembot:

Ty for your comment. Do you think a Scriptural faith based tatt design could help some people (maybe not you yourself) talk to others more about their faith?

Blessings.

 

[Davies]

A Jesus tat is better than, let's say a naked lady tat. I wouldn't flog someone for having a tat. It doesn't make it righteous but it also is NOT my place to JUDGE...

Fembot,

That's a great comparison.

- Davies

 

[Davies]

A Jesus tat is better than, let's say a naked lady tat. I wouldn't flog someone for having a tat. It doesn't make it righteous but it also is NOT my place to JUDGE...

Good morning farouk, Fembot,

Do you see the one of many issues with tattoos? The last thing people are thinking of is evangelism when getting a tattoo. When getting a tattoo, the focus doesn't become how can I reach the lost, it's what image can I get that would be pleasing to the eye. In the expression of Fembot, I paraphrase, 'It's ok if people get tattoos, because an image of Jesus is better than a naked lady.' That's not a judgmental statement? It's this kind of thinking that gets us into trouble. What Biblical basis do we have for thinking this way? I would pose to you that we should be thinking the opposite. Let me suggest, unless I'm accused of trying to take someone's intellectual freedom away, that we should emulate Paul's attitude of forsaking our freedom in Christ to do something that will stumble other people and in the process separate ourselves behavior-wise and point the way to Jesus. If the focus was on reaching the lost, I would have heard somewhere in this thread that, 'I'd be willing to not get a tattoo if I thought I could lead someone to Christ,' but rather what I'm hearing is justification for getting a tattoo so the Christian can exercise their freedom. I wonder if the thought entered the mind of the need to witness to the tattoo artist who can, with talent, ink a suffering Jesus during an a.m. appointment, and then turn around and ink a naked lady during a p.m. appointment.

Tattoos really distinguish us from the world. We wouldn't want to behave differently, would we?

- Davies

 

[farouk]

Good morning farouk, Fembot,

Do you see the one of many issues with tattoos? The last thing people are thinking of is evangelism when getting a tattoo. When getting a tattoo, the focus doesn't become how can I reach the lost, it's what image can I get that would be pleasing to the eye. In the expression of Fembot, I paraphrase, 'It's ok if people get tattoos, because an image of Jesus is better than a naked lady.' That's not a judgmental statement? It's this kind of thinking that gets us into trouble. What Biblical basis do we have for thinking this way? I would pose to you that we should be thinking the opposite. Let me suggest, unless I'm accused of trying to take someone's intellectual freedom away, that we should emulate Paul's attitude of forsaking our freedom in Christ to do something that will stumble other people and in the process separate ourselves behavior-wise and point the way to Jesus. If the focus was on reaching the lost, I would have heard somewhere in this thread that, 'I'd be willing to not get a tattoo if I thought I could lead someone to Christ,' but rather what I'm hearing is justification for getting a tattoo so the Christian can exercise their freedom. I wonder if the thought entered the mind of the need to witness to the tattoo artist who can, with talent, ink a suffering Jesus during an a.m. appointment, and then turn around and ink a naked lady during a p.m. appointment.

Tattoos really distinguish us from the world. We wouldn't want to behave differently, would we?

- Davies

Davies, What you say to some extent makes a good deal of sense; but again I would re-emphasize that my approach is basically pragmatic.

I would take the existence of the practice of tattooing as a given; many of the designs are benign (whatever else might be claimed occasionally) and faith based tattoos have been proven to be effective in helping witness conversations. (I think that many Christians would agree that this makes quite a good deal of sense, too.)

Of course Fembot is right about avoiding naked ladies.

My guess is that your daughter whom you mentioned in relation to tattoos is aware of her dad's dislike of them and for various reasons (not least, not wanting to provoke her father to vigorous comment!) will probably avoid getting one. (Pure speculation on my part, mind you...)

Blessings.

 

[Davies]

Davies, What you say to some extent makes a good deal of sense; but again I would re-emphasize that my approach is basically pragmatic.

I would take the existence of the practice of tattooing as a given; many of the designs are benign (whatever else might be claimed occasionally) and faith based tattoos have been proven to be effective in helping witness conversations. (I think that many Christians would agree that this makes quite a good deal of sense, too.)

Of course Fembot is right about avoiding naked ladies.

My guess is that your daughter whom you mentioned in relation to tattoos is aware of her dad's dislike of them and for various reasons (not least, not wanting to provoke her father to vigorous comment!) will probably avoid getting one. (Pure speculation on my part, mind you...)

Blessings.

Hi farouk,

Since you stated that some of what I said made some sense, would I be right that adopting Paul's attitude of not using his freedom in Christ to become a stumbling block to others?

Pragmatism... Do you know where pragmatism gets you? Pragmatism has the Middle East in perpetual enmity between Arabs, Shiites, and the Jews. Sara told her husband, 'Have a child with our handmaiden Hagar.' They used pragmatism because they lapsed in faith because they still did not have a child that God promised. It's better to read the Bible and follow what it says, because I tell you what, pragmatism isn't going to tell you to stay married to your wife when things are going south. Pragmatism won't tell you to hold on to that baby when the boy leaves his girl friend after he gets her pregnant. It was pragmatism that caused Peter and Barnabas to sin and play the hypocrite eating with the Jews out of fear, and Paul rebuked Peter to his face. Even when vigorous conversations happen, some people just want to hear and take a pragmatic approach rather than a walking by faith, not by sight. You can lean on tattoos to help you witness or you can lean on the understanding that you can't do anything without Jesus with or without being inked, but when you trust in Him instead, you won't need anything else to help you.

Again, the thought that Fembot expressed has nothing to do with using tattoos for reaching the lost. The thought was justification for getting a tattoo even at the expense of being a stumbling block to others. We don't have the freedom to do whatever we want, and though tattoos aren't inherently sinful, the cons far out weigh the pros. It's a lot easier to witness to someone by just walking up to them rather than having a permanently injected image on your body. I'll give you that you might be cool and hip. Gang members do the same thing.

I'm glad you used the term speculation, because my daughter has had many tattoos. Do you know what she does with them, she says look at me, not so much different then what I hear in this thread. You know what I do next? I ooo and aaaa over her tattoo as she takes her bath and washes it off. She's only six years old. She won't have to worry about tattoos when she grows up. She may get them, and I'll respect her choice, but my daughter will 'suffer' from a father who will be jealous over her safety, especially her spiritual well being. I hope I have many vigorous discussions with my daughter, because I will be pointing the way to Jesus every chance I get.

- Davies

 

[farouk]

Hi farouk,

Since you stated that some of what I said made some sense, would I be right that adopting Paul's attitude of not using his freedom in Christ to become a stumbling block to others?

Pragmatism... Do you know where pragmatism gets you? Pragmatism has the Middle East in perpetual enmity between Arabs, Shiites, and the Jews. Sara told her husband, 'Have a child with our handmaiden Hagar.' They used pragmatism because they lapsed in faith because they still did not have a child that God promised. It's better to read the Bible and follow what it says, because I tell you what, pragmatism isn't going to tell you to stay married to your wife when things are going south. Pragmatism won't tell you to hold on to that baby when the boy leaves his girl friend after he gets her pregnant. It was pragmatism that caused Peter and Barnabas to sin and play the hypocrite eating with the Jews out of fear, and Paul rebuked Peter to his face. Even when vigorous conversations happen, some people just want to hear and take a pragmatic approach rather than a walking by faith, not by sight. You can lean on tattoos to help you witness or you can lean on the understanding that you can't do anything without Jesus with or without being inked, but when you trust in Him instead, you won't need anything else to help you.

Again, the thought that Fembot expressed has nothing to do with using tattoos for reaching the lost. The thought was justification for getting a tattoo even at the expense of being a stumbling block to others. We don't have the freedom to do whatever we want, and though tattoos aren't inherently sinful, the cons far out weigh the pros. It's a lot easier to witness to someone by just walking up to them rather than having a permanently injected image on your body. I'll give you that you might be cool and hip. Gang members do the same thing.

I'm glad you used the term speculation, because my daughter has had many tattoos. Do you know what she does with them, she says look at me, not so much different then what I hear in this thread. You know what I do next? I ooo and aaaa over her tattoo as she takes her bath and washes it off. She's only six years old. She won't have to worry about tattoos when she grows up. She may get them, and I'll respect her choice, but my daughter will 'suffer' from a father who will be jealous over her safety, especially her spiritual well being. I hope I have many vigorous discussions with my daughter, because I will be pointing the way to Jesus every chance I get.

- Davies

Hi Davies; I think you're reading too much into what I said; I got to go eat lunch; maybe I'll be back later.

Blessings, f

Back later:

Okay so when you picked up on my use of the word 'pragmatism' and turned it into a discourse on why I was supposedly in favor of fornication, or according to your logic ought to be, or whatever, I think the connection that you supposedly see is far fetched.

Instead of the word 'pragmatism', the word 'effectiveness' could equally have been used.

The fact that faith based designs are effective (or find an even better word...?) in helping
witness conversations is quite apparent.

Blessings.

 

[farouk]

Twonky:

Anyway my Opinion of this is:
If a man wants a tattoo...yes
If a woman wants a tattoo....

...yes! also

This is only fair, right?

Ty for your comment.

Blessings.

 

[Twonky]

@Farouk

D:

when you quote it like this it sounds wrong

Anyway my Opinion of this is:
If a man wants a tattoo...yes
If a woman wants a tattoo....Hell no that would be satanic


just kidding

 

[farouk]

@Farouk

D:

when you quote it like this it sounds wrong

Twonky:

Oh okay, but I guess you mean it's right that women should go for them, too, if they want, right?

(Traditionally it was more of a male practice, but now in North America 60% of tatts are received by women, anyway.)

 

[Twonky]

eeyup that was what i meant

 

[Lloyd]

Hi Farouk, and others.

I think I can add to this thread. It's funny as I was just searching for Christian pictures to "add" to my list of potential tattoo options, and do you know what, I just thought "I'll have one last look on Christian forums" and I happened to stumble across this thread and read every post.

Can I be honest? The overwhelming feeling I have right now is that I will NEVER get another tattoo again. Being honest with myself, I feel God has clearly shown me that this isn't the way, however much I convince myself it's ok. I'm not going to judge anyone or tell anyone what's right or wrong, but it's sunk home for me, right this minute, it's not what God wants for me.

Farouk - we have be friends for a while and I respect you, so please dont think I've popped into this thread to condemn you or anyone else. After all, I already have 3 tattoos, but I believe the Lord brought me here tonight for a purpose.

Take care... off to bed as it's 12.30am here!

Lloyd

 

[farouk]

Hi Farouk, and others.

I think I can add to this thread. It's funny as I was just searching for Christian pictures to "add" to my list of potential tattoo options, and do you know what, I just thought "I'll have one last look on Christian forums" and I happened to stumble across this thread and read every post.

Can I be honest? The overwhelming feeling I have right now is that I will NEVER get another tattoo again. Being honest with myself, I feel God has clearly shown me that this isn't the way, however much I convince myself it's ok. I'm not going to judge anyone or tell anyone what's right or wrong, but it's sunk home for me, right this minute, it's not what God wants for me.

Farouk - we have be friends for a while and I respect you, so please dont think I've popped into this thread to condemn you or anyone else. After all, I already have 3 tattoos, but I believe the Lord brought me here tonight for a purpose.

Take care... off to bed as it's 12.30am here!

Lloyd

Hi Lloyd;

All depends on the motives for getting a tattoo, doesn't it?

(Hope that new baby of yours is doing fine!)

Blessings, f

 

[Davies]

Hi Davies; I think you're reading too much into what I said; I got to go eat lunch; maybe I'll be back later.

Blessings, f

Back later:

Okay so when you picked up on my use of the word 'pragmatism' and turned it into a discourse on why I was supposedly in favor of fornication, or according to your logic ought to be, or whatever, I think the connection that you supposedly see is far fetched.

You're being 'me' centered in your understanding of what I said. I'll try to be very clear. Pragmatism and not walking by faith will get us into trouble just the same way it got Abraham, Peter, Barnabas, or the mother who didn't mean to get pregnant and doesn't want her baby. There is nothing in my post that suggested you were in favor of fornication. The Bible doesn't say not to get tattoos, but who walks around thinking,'I hope someone will see my tattoo so I can witness to them'? There are many people who place Christian bumper stickers on their cars. Does that make them effective evangelists? What is so effective about having a tattoo? Can you start a conversation easier? How? Who cares? If you can't communicate the Gospel effectively, it won't matter how well a tattoo can help you in a conversation. Effectiveness in evangelism comes from knowing your Bible and the help that comes from God, not a picture on your arm, neck, or ankle. Anywhere else, it starts to border on inappropriate. There is nothing apparent about the effectiveness of tattoos. The motivation to get a tattoo so you can witness effectively is nothing but a rationalization.

The fact that faith based designs are effective (or find an even better word...?) in helping
witness conversations is quite apparent.

How many Christians do you know lament the tattoos they currently have? The only effectiveness I see in tattoos is the ability they have to remind us of our sin, 'I will do it my why, and I don't care what anyone else thinks.' If we have a healthy faith in Jesus, then our tattoos will remind us of how much God has forgiven us. I don't need a tattoo for that, and neither does anyone else.

- Davies

 

[farouk]

You're being 'me' centered in your understanding of what I said. I'll try to be very clear. Pragmatism and not walking by faith will get us into trouble just the same way it got Abraham, Peter, Barnabas, or the mother who didn't mean to get pregnant and doesn't want her baby. There is nothing in my post that suggested you were in favor of fornication. The Bible doesn't say not to get tattoos, but who walks around thinking,'I hope someone will see my tattoo so I can witness to them'? There are many people who place Christian bumper stickers on their cars. Does that make them effective evangelists? What is so effective about having a tattoo? Can you start a conversation easier? How? Who cares? If you can't communicate the Gospel effectively, it won't matter how well a tattoo can help you in a conversation. Effectiveness in evangelism comes from knowing your Bible and the help that comes from God, not a picture on your arm, neck, or ankle. Anywhere else, it starts to border on inappropriate. There is nothing apparent about the effectiveness of tattoos. The motivation to get a tattoo so you can witness effectively is nothing but a rationalization.



How many Christians do you know lament the tattoos they currently have? The only effectiveness I see in tattoos is the ability they have to remind us of our sin, 'I will do it my why, and I don't care what anyone else thinks.' If we have a healthy faith in Jesus, then our tattoos will remind us of how much God has forgiven us. I don't need a tattoo for that, and neither does anyone else.

- Davies

Davies:

Okay so people can read what I said and what you said and figure for themselves what we were trying to say. Maybe I won't go over those aspects again.

"Effectiveness in evangelism comes from knowing your Bible and the help that comes from God".

Yes, I strongly agree with you. This is very important.


"There is nothing apparent about the effectiveness of tattoos."

...but it's also the case that your statement here is not accurate; if you talk to Christian young people who do have faith related tattoos, you will learn that they help them to get into all sorts of conversations with people and facilitate all sorts of opportunities. (Just ask them and see.)

Blessings.

 

[tandemcpl]

You're being 'me' centered in your understanding of what I said. I'll try to be very clear. Pragmatism and not walking by faith will get us into trouble just the same way it got Abraham, Peter, Barnabas, or the mother who didn't mean to get pregnant and doesn't want her baby. There is nothing in my post that suggested you were in favor of fornication. The Bible doesn't say not to get tattoos, but who walks around thinking,'I hope someone will see my tattoo so I can witness to them'? There are many people who place Christian bumper stickers on their cars. Does that make them effective evangelists? What is so effective about having a tattoo? Can you start a conversation easier? How? Who cares? If you can't communicate the Gospel effectively, it won't matter how well a tattoo can help you in a conversation. Effectiveness in evangelism comes from knowing your Bible and the help that comes from God, not a picture on your arm, neck, or ankle. Anywhere else, it starts to border on inappropriate. There is nothing apparent about the effectiveness of tattoos. The motivation to get a tattoo so you can witness effectively is nothing but a rationalization.



How many Christians do you know lament the tattoos they currently have? The only effectiveness I see in tattoos is the ability they have to remind us of our sin, 'I will do it my why, and I don't care what anyone else thinks.' If we have a healthy faith in Jesus, then our tattoos will remind us of how much God has forgiven us. I don't need a tattoo for that, and neither does anyone else.

- Davies

Great post Davies. I agree with everything you said.

I have several tattoos that remind me everyday how much God has forgiven me.

Be blessed.

Toby

 

[tandemcpl]

Davies:

Okay so people can read what I said and what you said and figure for themselves what we were trying to say. Maybe I won't go over those aspects again.

"Effectiveness in evangelism comes from knowing your Bible and the help that comes from God".

Yes, I strongly agree with you. This is very important.


"There is nothing apparent about the effectiveness of tattoos."

...but it's also the case that your statement here is not accurate; if you talk to Christian young people who do have faith related tattoos, you will learn that they help them to get into all sorts of conversations with people and facilitate all sorts of opportunities. (Just ask them and see.)

Blessings.

Good morning, Farouk,

I have tried to come up with a way to state the following without sounding confrontational, but I’m afraid I will not succeed. Being confrontational is not my intent.

You have made the claim several times in this thread that it is a fact that a faith based tattoo is an effective witnessing tool, yet you have not submitted any empirical evidence to support your claim.

Because of the negative perceptions of many in the Christian faith and the natural world toward my tattoos, I keep them covered up until the people I meet get to know me. I suggest a tattoo of any type could be perceived as negative and could be a barrier to effective witnessing.

Note: I got all my tattoos before I became a Christian and I will not get any more.

Be blessed.

Toby

As an afterthought. Have you asked any young Christians without tattoos if not having a tattoo has been a barrier to them witnessing to others?