Polygamy in the Old Testament and the New

[JohnDB]

OK.
Since before this thread got shut down in the improper forum and people seem interested in discussing this...

Was polygamy adultery?
Is it wrong?
Was it wrong?
Is it wrong today? WHY?

Would you ever consider being a participant in a plural marriage?

Why did God command this to be done?
(Judah and Tamar)



1 Timothy 3:12

 

[By Grace]

When anyone uses imprecise definitions, the result is always choas. In other words, it is "Humpty Dumptyism" where words mean what the poster wants them to mean.

Here are some short definitions of words to help:

Adultery any sexual relation between one married person, and another non-related person
Polyandry having more than one husband
Polygamy having more than one wife.​

Using them in sentences:
Joseph Smith's wife Emma caught Joseph and Franny Alger in an adulterous relationship.
The early Mormons at the time of Joseph had shared husbands, meaning they were polyandrous, and shared wives, meaning that they were polygamous.

Today, we would call them swingers. Here is a chart to demonstrate that. http://www.mormoninfographics.com/2012/09/the-many-wives-of-joseph-smith.html

You will notice that I did answer your questions with concrete examples of each term.

Now, what is your question?

 

[JohnDB]

When anyone uses imprecise definitions, the result is always choas. In other words, it is "Humpty Dumptyism" where words mean what the poster wants them to mean.

Here are some short definitions of words to help:

Adultery any sexual relation between one married person, and another non-related person
Polyandry having more than one husband
Polygamy having more than one wife.​

Using them in sentences:
Joseph Smith's wife Emma caught Joseph and Franny Alger in an adulterous relationship.
The early Mormons at the time of Joseph had shared husbands, meaning they were polyandrous, and shared wives, meaning that they were polygamous.

Today, we would call them swingers. Here is a chart to demonstrate that. http://www.mormoninfographics.com/2012/09/the-many-wives-of-joseph-smith.html

You will notice that I did answer your questions with concrete examples of each term.

Now, what is your question?

Great link.

The house keeper was interesting...so was the polyandry.

Swinging is obviously a sin.
And the Bible says specifically polyandry is sinful as well.

But the many wives...
Whole nother story.

Even Abraham had several wives after Sarah's passing. And let's not forget the two wives and their handmaids of Jacob. Moses' second wife got him in trouble as she was a Cushite...it wasn't that it was his second wife but that she was from Cush...

Why then is it so frowned upon today?
(Not that I want another one... I got all I need, want, wish for.....)

But obviously there is a segment of our population that seems intent upon wishing for this.
Among many of the financial elite a known girlfriend is something of a norm.
Formerly called consorts. Paul referred to them as wives which left the Roman/Greek believers feeling insulted...mostly because of their "paid influence" in the churches...(money always seems to buy influence)

 

[WIP]

I found these that seem to speak about sexual promiscuity, immorality, fornication, etc.

I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh....Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control. Galatians 5:16, 19-23 NKJV

Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 NKJV

The night is far spent, the day is at hand. Therefore let us cast off the works of darkness, and let us put on the armor of light. Let us walk properly, as in the day, not in revelry and drunkenness, not in lewdness and lust, not in strife and envy. But put on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make no provision for the flesh, to fulfill its lusts. Romans 13:12-14 NKJV

But when Herod heard, he said, “This is John, whom I beheaded; he has been raised from the dead!” For Herod himself had sent and laid hold of John, and bound him in prison for the sake of Herodias, his brother Philip’s wife; for he had married her. Because John had said to Herod, “It is not lawful for you to have your brother’s wife.” Mark 6:16-18 NKJV

“You have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’ But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart." - Jesus Christ. Matthew 5:27-28 NKJV

 

[Jethro Bodine]

As foolishly exciting as it may seem to some men to have more than one wife, the one simple reason I personally would not do that to my wife is Matthew 7:12 NASB--"12“In everything, therefore, treat people the same way you want them to treat you".

Think of all the poor women in history who endured the pain of seeing their husbands with another woman, while the men demanded that the woman be faithful to him alone. The desire for a different, or additional wives always comes down to what Jesus said--hardness of heart (Matthew 19:3-9 NASB). If you cared about your spouse with the love of God you would not be seeking sexual fulfillment outside of them.

Sexual appetites outside of your lone relationship to your spouse come from the flesh, not from the Spirit of God. Anyone who boasts of the spiritual legality of multiple spouses (divorce, polygamy, the other poly-something or other) is merely showing the hardness of their heart toward the truths of the Spirit.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

When anyone uses imprecise definitions, the result is always choas. In other words, it is "Humpty Dumptyism" where words mean what the poster wants them to mean.

Here are some short definitions of words to help:

Adultery any sexual relation between one married person, and another non-related person
Polyandry having more than one husband
Polygamy having more than one wife.​

Using them in sentences:
Joseph Smith's wife Emma caught Joseph and Franny Alger in an adulterous relationship.
The early Mormons at the time of Joseph had shared husbands, meaning they were polyandrous, and shared wives, meaning that they were polygamous.

Today, we would call them swingers. Here is a chart to demonstrate that. http://www.mormoninfographics.com/2012/09/the-many-wives-of-joseph-smith.html

You will notice that I did answer your questions with concrete examples of each term.

Now, what is your question?

It's been clear to me for several years now that polygamy in Mormonism was/is really a sexual appetite for children.

 

[Deborah13]

Was polygamy adultery?

No. Adultery was punishable by death. Polygamy was not. Lev. 18, Deut. 25, Ex. 21 If polygamy was adultery, Samuel would have been an illegitimate child. 1 Samuel 1 and 13
1 Corinth 6, says that adulterers will not enter the Kingdom of Heaven. Abraham, the friend of God, David, the man after God's own heart, do not enter the Kingdom of Heaven? David repented of adultery and murder, in the case of Bathsheba.

Was it wrong?

No. I don't see any scripture that says it was a sin. In fact the scripture says that God blessed David with more than one wife. He also said, when David took Bathsheba, that if David had desired more wives He would have given him more.
Does God promote sin, obviously not.

Is it wrong today? WHY?

I think that argument would have to be made from the point that the NT is silent about it. Except that Paul says that elders must be the husband of one wife. That could mean he must have at least one wife and children to show that he is fit to manage the church by managing his own family. idk
Also, Paul points out, in the case of a prostitute, that one person can be one flesh with more than one person, even outside of marriage. 1 Corinth. 6

Would you ever consider being a participant in a plural marriage?

No

Why did God command this to be done?
(Judah and Tamar)

Did He actually command it. I don't remember. And I don't remember Judah marrying Tamar, so this would not be polygamy or maybe it would as in concubine. However,....
I think to carry on the name of Tamar's dead husband, Judah's son. It was the law. Deut. 25. We see that in Ruth, brother can mean the closest living family member to the one who died. In Ruth's case it was her husband's uncle, he refused, she released him, and Boaz, also a kinsman to Naomi, married Ruth.

 

[Christ_empowered]

I find the OT polygamy interesting because....well, God was flexible in dealing with society as it was. Lots of agrarian societies way back when were polygamous. More kids=more labor, plus the high infant mortality rate, plus women dying in child birth (and from other things, too, but preganancy and labor were dangerous), polygamy made sense, especially for men with more resources.

I think of it as kind of similar to the divorce laws/rules. In the OT, women were expendable. In the NT, Jesus laid down the new law about divorce, which helped protect women+children and make marriage and family more important in some respects.

I think monogamy was always the ideal, and now its the only way to go. Jesus talks of a man leaving his parents to be with his wife, and the two shall be as one...he doesn't say the man leaves for his 3 wives, and they'll form a complex family system. Genesis begins with Adam and Eve, not Adam, Eve, and Lilith or whatever. My take on it is that polygamy was tolerated because of The Fall, which created conditions in which polygamy was sometimes a good idea.

 

[Mike]

1 Timothy 3
"This is a faithful saying: If a man desires the position of a bishop, he desires a good work. 2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, temperate, sober-minded, of good behavior, hospitable, able to teach; 3 not given to wine, not violent, not greedy for money, but gentle, not quarrelsome, not covetous;"

I suppose that polygamy was permitted, even encouraged, by the Lord in the Old Testament to protect women or to promote population growth, but clearly God's perfect model is one man/one wife. While 1 Timothy 3:2 are the criteria of a church leader, all of the attributes listed are important for every believer to live out. Certainly then, this would suggest to me that having one wife is ideal.

 

[jasonc]

Adam and eve, not Adam and eve,sarai,Hadassah, anna...

 

[JohnDB]

1 Timothy 3
"This is a faithful saying: If a man desires the position of a bishop, he desires a good work. 2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, temperate, sober-minded, of good behavior, hospitable, able to teach; 3 not given to wine, not violent, not greedy for money, but gentle, not quarrelsome, not covetous;"

I suppose that polygamy was permitted, even encouraged, by the Lord in the Old Testament to protect women or to promote population growth, but clearly God's perfect model is one man/one wife. While 1 Timothy 3:2 are the criteria of a church leader, all of the attributes listed are important for every believer to live out. Certainly then, this would suggest to me that having one wife is ideal.

Paul was referring to the "consorts" of many of the wealthy believers. Roman/Greek society permitted only one wife but allowed for a man to have a girlfriend... It actually was a status symbol for a woman to be the consort of particular persons. Children of the consort were cared for...but would not be an heir to the rich guy....that was for children of the wife.

So Paul, used to polygamy was sarcastically implying that the wealthy guys had more than one wife....which their society abhored. Obviously he didn't want these guys to continue to to influence the church's decisions.

 

[Mike]

JohnDB are you saying the ideal model God gave us for our lives is not a union between one man and one woman? I personally believe you are reading too much into Paul's words in 1 Timothy 3, but there is also Ephesians 5:22-33 where wife is made singular and not plural. In fact, are there any New Testament scriptures that promote anything beside the 1:1 model? As Jason said, Adam was Given Eve as his helper (singular) and His instruction for a man taking his wife is given in the singular in Genesis.

During the time when the nation of Israel was growing and women were highly vulnerable to danger, polygamy had its place, but I've never known this to be His perfect plan for us. By the time of Christ, it seemed to have been left in the past according to His will.

 

[reba]

JohnDB are you saying the ideal model God gave us for our lives is not a union between one man and one woman? I personally believe you are reading too much into Paul's words in 1 Timothy 3, but there is also Ephesians 5:22-33 where wife is made singular and not plural. In fact, are there any New Testament scriptures that promote anything beside the 1:1 model? As Jason said, Adam was Given Eve as his helper (singular) and His instruction for a man taking his wife is given in the singular in Genesis.

During the time when the nation of Israel was growing and women were highly vulnerable to danger, polygamy had its place, but I've never known this to be His perfect plan for us. By the time of Christ, it seemed to have been left in the past according to His will.

where is the like button

 

[Deborah13]

but there is also Ephesians 5:22-33 where wife is made singular and not plural. In fact, are there any New Testament scriptures that promote anything beside the 1:1 model?

I don't see how you can use these verses to make your case.
Setting aside the rules of grammar...still the use of the singular form of wife doesn't mean anything here.
Each individual wife would be subject to her own husband whether the husband had one wife or more than one wife.

During the time when the nation of Israel was growing and women were highly vulnerable to danger, polygamy had its place,

I'm not sure what you are referring to here. How were women more highly vulnerable to danger in Moses' day compared to the times of the second temple? They still needed a man to protect them and support them. It's still that way in third world countries where polygamy is lawful.

 

[JohnDB]

JohnDB are you saying the ideal model God gave us for our lives is not a union between one man and one woman? I personally believe you are reading too much into Paul's words in 1 Timothy 3, but there is also Ephesians 5:22-33 where wife is made singular and not plural. In fact, are there any New Testament scriptures that promote anything beside the 1:1 model? As Jason said, Adam was Given Eve as his helper (singular) and His instruction for a man taking his wife is given in the singular in Genesis.

During the time when the nation of Israel was growing and women were highly vulnerable to danger, polygamy had its place, but I've never known this to be His perfect plan for us. By the time of Christ, it seemed to have been left in the past according to His will.

No, I'm not promoting plural marriages.

I like the 1:1 model. I wouldn't want anything different.

But at the same time I am also saying that prejudices against those who do are unwarranted... And that the Timothy text is often used to discount/exclude some from serving in our congregations when used in the fashion most common.

That's what I am saying.


(Also if it weren't for my wife of noble character I would likely be single)

 

[Edward]

Only an idiot would want more than one wife.

 

[th1b.taylor]

OK.
Since before this thread got shut down in the improper forum and people seem interested in discussing this...

Was polygamy adultery?

There is nothing I can find in the Ten Commandments against it, so, no. But then we should also look at the model, set by God at the Creation of man. God created Eve but He did not create Sarah and Rebecka and present them to Adam. God meant for man to have A Help Mate and we should accept the wisdom demonstrated by God and live by it.

Is it wrong?

It is wrong today because men have men influenced by God to outlaw it.

Was it wrong?

Ouch, and I so dislike Bill Clinton! It all depends on, how do you define wrong? Legally, no, morally, yes!

Is it wrong today? WHY?

It is wrong in countries where the laws say no and it is legal where the laws say yes.

Would you ever consider being a participant in a plural marriage?

No, I did all I could to please one woman and it would require at least four times the effort, planning and manipulation and, yet, to fail?

Why did God command this to be done?
(Judah and Tamar)

God did not command it though HJe did permit it.

 

[jasonc]

I don't see how you can use these verses to make your case.
Setting aside the rules of grammar...still the use of the singular form of wife doesn't mean anything here.
Each individual wife would be subject to her own husband whether the husband had one wife or more than one wife.


I'm not sure what you are referring to here. How were women more highly vulnerable to danger in Moses' day compared to the times of the second temple? They still needed a man to protect them and support them. It's still that way in third world countries where polygamy is lawful.

Have you been in those states? Islam treats women like cattle. One muslim state wants ban polygamy.

Are you suggesting that a man lives with his wives? No they rotate and they don't care for all their kids at each day
The mother alone is the daily mentor.the father rotates.that's not a perfect situation.

 

[jasonc]

Slavery isn't explicity listed as sin.as such one could use that argument for it.I agree with Bill.btw the rabbis say in the time of Christ that polygamy was a Roman thing .feW jews were doing it.same with slaves.

 

[reba]

My view
The way i see life God gave adam one wife. .. gee is there a point to what God does? that was the beginning...
Christ has one bride Again is there a point to what God does.?
Man doing what man does does not justify man actions.

Husbands love your wife (singular) as Christ loves the Church ( singular)
Justifying more than one wife cause as the kids say 'everyone is doing it' does not make it Godly or right.

I am surprised every time this topic comes up ... That Christians edge to the acceptance of multible wives..