Polygamy in the Old Testament and the New
- Thread starter JohnDB
- Start date
-
Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
-
Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
-
I really don't see this happening.
What I do see is the issue that mankind has always had of elevating particular individuals and devaluating others to the point of property.
I see that God views humanity very different than we do.
We value human life above animal or plant life...well most of us at least.
Where God seems to value "the elect" above the rest of creation.
But we also value those of capabilities or pleasing appearance.... Like those with professional degrees. Doctors, pastors, models, actors and others.
But to God capabilities seem to be of little value.
That was the case made for slaves and women. They had little to no skills or capabilities that were valued. These were those that needed to be taken care of. Sooo...some of the wealthy would take care of many them but would treat them like property.
You have to clothe, feed and house some.
We value human life above animal or plant life...well most of us at least.
Where God seems to value "the elect" above the rest of creation.
But we also value those of capabilities or pleasing appearance.... Like those with professional degrees. Doctors, pastors, models, actors and others.
But to God capabilities seem to be of little value.
That was the case made for slaves and women. They had little to no skills or capabilities that were valued. These were those that needed to be taken care of. Sooo...some of the wealthy would take care of many them but would treat them like property.
You have to clothe, feed and house some.
Yet the commands and in the judgement were about those in Matthew .I was in prison..and ye visited me.Jesus identified with the bible.
So if it's legal in morroco.why not?
I never gave this much consideration so I looked it up and found this site that might explain it better than I can.
http://www.gotquestions.org/polygamy.html
Question: "Why did God allow polygamy / bigamy in the Bible?"
Answer: The question of polygamy is an interesting one in that most people today view polygamy as immoral while the Bible nowhere explicitly condemns it. The first instance of polygamy/bigamy in the Bible was that of Lamech in Genesis 4:19: “Lamech married two women.” Several prominent men in the Old Testament were polygamists. Abraham, Jacob, David, Solomon, and others all had multiple wives. In 2 Samuel 12:8, God, speaking through the prophet Nathan, said that if David’s wives and concubines were not enough, He would have given David even more. Solomon had 700 wives and 300 concubines (essentially wives of a lower status), according to 1 Kings 11:3. What are we to do with these instances of polygamy in the Old Testament? There are three questions that need to be answered: 1) Why did God allow polygamy in the Old Testament? 2) How does God view polygamy today? 3) Why did it change?
you can click on the link if you want the full answer.
http://www.gotquestions.org/polygamy.html
Question: "Why did God allow polygamy / bigamy in the Bible?"
Answer: The question of polygamy is an interesting one in that most people today view polygamy as immoral while the Bible nowhere explicitly condemns it. The first instance of polygamy/bigamy in the Bible was that of Lamech in Genesis 4:19: “Lamech married two women.” Several prominent men in the Old Testament were polygamists. Abraham, Jacob, David, Solomon, and others all had multiple wives. In 2 Samuel 12:8, God, speaking through the prophet Nathan, said that if David’s wives and concubines were not enough, He would have given David even more. Solomon had 700 wives and 300 concubines (essentially wives of a lower status), according to 1 Kings 11:3. What are we to do with these instances of polygamy in the Old Testament? There are three questions that need to be answered: 1) Why did God allow polygamy in the Old Testament? 2) How does God view polygamy today? 3) Why did it change?
you can click on the link if you want the full answer.
You may not agree that I've made a convincing case, but I maintain that these verses support my statement. In it, Ephesians 5:28 says, "So husbands ought to love their own wives as their own bodies; he who loves his wife loves himself.". Is there anywhere in the New Testament that speaks to a man and his wives? Any instruction for handling that household? I'm not being snarky with you. It's an honest question. I don't recall ever seeing it. When instruction has been given or when marriage is referred to, it is only between one man and one woman. If scripture doesn't say specifically that one model is in concert with his plan, but it refers to one model consistently when referring to marriage, I take it to support that model.
Again, you may not accept that my case is convincing, but I think it's odd that you say you don't know how this doesn't support my case at all.
I'm not a historian or an archaeologist to be able to say with certainty that this was the reason for polygamy. As I said in my earlier post, I'm speculating that it was more dangerous. It makes sense to me that societies and the nations became more structured and established, there would be a stronger support structure for women who were left alone. Less laws to protect their rights or to punish men who abused them.
Where I am a hereto male....and I like women I really don't want that many that involved with my life.
Don't get me wrong. My wife and I share the same heart and brain. But why would I even think of getting another one? I have all I need now.
My life doesn't center on breeding and progeny....where my son is great and I have a lot to be proud of as a father... I still want more from life than this.
Possessions (like wives and children) are not the sum total of my existence.
I like going home...but I love itenerancy more (having no home and travelling alot)
It's not even a lack of wanting responsibility... The things I feel responsible for I do take on.
Let's be real,it's not long when it will be legal in america.if it not a sin then why are we going to speak against it?
Because it's the devaluing of another person.
Sure, some people can't seem to take care of themselves.
And welfare roles seem to swell up.
But...
I personally don't want to be involved with anything like that.
I don't mind helping others out. But to be intimate with someone else? No...not me.
A man with two wives is "hen pecked" trying to please both wives.
He is so busy doing enough to please them both that a guy doesn't have time for anything else.
His wives own him and truly it isn't the other way around.
A Christian man always wants to be more than just a husband and father. And that's why Paul tells Timothy what he does.
Yet some christians will because some say it's not a sin.yet it's not clearly written as such ,same as slavery.however given what we know about both.they aren't to be tolerated nor endorsed. Both devalue humans and make it a sin.
So you are saying it is more dangerous for women now in than it was in Israel in Moses' day? That is the opposite of what Mike said. Not all polygamists are Muslim nor do they all live in Muslim countries.
It's not an ideal situation when fathers are in the military and away from the wives and children for much larger periods of time. The same with husbands and fathers who have to work away from home for long periods of time.
I agree with this and I personally believe that Paul was discouraging the practice among Christians. However, this is the apologetics forum, apologetics is for defending the faith through the use of scripture. In my view that does not mean that looking at history as well should not be considered when determining the meaning of the scripture or maybe that follows under the heading of theology in this forum.
This issue has been challenged recently in the federal courts in Utah, and let's hope that it dies there, but if it doesn't Christians should be prepared to defend their arguments against.
In this case, Democrat, liberal, Mormon Harry Reid agrees that it should be illegal. He doesn't make his case on Biblical scripture but on crimes that he believes are committed by polygamists. http://www.religioustolerance.org/polylaw.htm
We aren't discussing the failures of men in marriage.
I don't think its good to justify a sin based on well this sin is going.slippery slope. I could easily justify slavery as well in Roman days slaves had some rights and weren't like the slaves in america. Feed,house em and clothe em.it's humane.people are going to be greedy and not care might as well have the poor as slaves.
I don't think its good to justify a sin based on well this sin is going.slippery slope. I could easily justify slavery as well in Roman days slaves had some rights and weren't like the slaves in america. Feed,house em and clothe em.it's humane.people are going to be greedy and not care might as well have the poor as slaves.
YLT
Exo 21:10 `If another woman he take for him, her food, her covering, and her habitation, he doth not withdraw;
Exo 21:11 and if these three he do not to her, then she hath gone out for nought, without money.
KJV
Exo 21:10 If he take him another wife; her food, her raiment, and her duty of marriage, shall he not diminish.
Exo 21:11 And if he do not these three unto her, then shall she go out free without money.
He will not deny her, her conjugal rights. Which would not allow her to have children if she didn't have any. Paul speaks of not denying one another conjugal rights.
1Co 7:3 Let the husband render unto the wife due benevolence: and likewise also the wife unto the husband.
This is one of the sites I read as well. Good site.
That isn't the verse/s you quoted before. I think that this verse is somewhat more supportive, for the case of one wife. However, wouldn't a husband be called to love each wife as his own body. A widower who remarries is called to love his second wife the same way. The one who is legally divorced is called to love his second wife the same way. So if a man had more than one wife how would you word this scripture differently? He who loves his wives loves himself would be one way.
Nope, and there isn't one that speaks against it either. It isn't listed in the lists of sins either.
Don't worry, I don't think you are being rude or snarky at all and I don't see you trying to shame other Christian into seeing your point of view. I hope that I have not appeared to be that way either. We are just debating about what scripture actually says. I've taken up the other side of the debate because I have personally been asked this question, and as a Christian couldn't give a definitive answer from scripture.
I agree, I believe it supports that model too. But one of the questions in the OP is, 'is it a sin'. It's been said many times on this forum that God does not change, He does not change in His nature, etc. Does God see it as a sin?
Eph. 5:22-23 I believe is a weak argument. Not that it is no argument at all.
What laws changed to protect women between Moses day and the second temple period.
I don't think it will be easily be made legal in America but not because of Biblical reasoning.
Same-sex intimate relationships being sin is easy to prove through scripture. Polygamy, not so much.
It's like slavery. Paul never said slavery was a sin. In fact he said if one was a slave they should stay with their master. So if one was in a polygamous marriage, when they became a Christian, would Paul have told them that they were sinning and had to divorce or leave all but one wife? On that I believe the scripture is silent, both by the Apostles and Jesus.
Yes but if legal,and I want a young wife. What's the problem? Slippery slope to christians doing it now.
The argument for it is already in place consenting adults. The state not needed in marriage.
I see an attractive woman at church unmarried. I talk to her,date her while married then marry her all while taking care of my current wife.how is that not adultery ?it's not.
To a Christian what the state says on this issue, just like s-s relationships, doesn't matter. What matters to us is what God says.
The question I was asked was, When did it become unlawful in the NT, because obviously it was lawful in the OT?
However,in alaBama they don't issue marriage licenses. Imagine going to church with two wives or those wives having more then one husband.it's not like that wasn't going on on the days of moses.
Just because the bible Doesnt specify it a sin doesn't mean the church shouldn't call it a sin.it's not a sin for me to marry one hundred women and have a harem per that arguement.yet if it was your husband on what grounds could you divorce him for adultery? It's not like the modern version of it will have women given by their fathers in marriage.they will have to date and marry. Thus adultery is now not adultery so long as there's no sex.like thar would fly with my wife.
One type of wife. Good wife.
Christ can handle the multiple membered bride, but I am not convinced man is up to that.
eddif