Polygyny and the Bible

[adelphos]

Hello,

I am going to hit this from an entirely different angle, and know that I will be crucified by suggesting this direction. Oh well.

I do not believe that a man should divorce his wife under these circumstances, but he could add a wife since Scripture nowhere condemns polygyny as a sin.

Respectfully

Adelphos

 

[adelphos]

Re: Alzheimer's & Divorce Condoned by Pat Robertson

Scripture doesn't necessarily condemn polygyny, but Scripture also teaches us that we must honor any vow made before God and man.

What were your wedding vows?

In ours, Steve and I vowed to "forsake all others" until "by death we are parted". We also had that part in there "in sickness and in health"

Doesn't leave much room for anyone else.

Hi,

Not all of us made that vow, btw. However, I believe Scripture affirms the principle that if we make vows that are contrary to Scripture, we are to repent.

Respectfully

Adelphos

 

[handy]

Re: Alzheimer's & Divorce Condoned by Pat Robertson

True...

But, how would making a vow before God and man to love one's spouse, forsaking all others, in sickness and in health, until death be contrary to Scriptures?

(I will also add that as a woman...there is no way, no how, under any circumstances any guy is going to get me into his bed unless he is willing to make such promises and would view any woman willing to do so rather foolish...)

One more thought...a lot of people make the claim that the Bible doesn't consider polygyny a sin (even though there is that about "the husband of one wife") but I don't see too many people making the same claim about polyandry.

I do live deep in Mormon country and though most Mormons today reject polygyny as being godly some will still agree to the principle of it. However, I've never met anyone who thinks it's OK for a woman to have more than one husband.

Perhaps this is the exception...that it is OK for a woman to have more than one husband if one of them is suffering from Alzheimer's or is otherwise "brain dead".

But, the only way it is possible that it's OK for anyone to have more than one spouse is if it's OK all the time. Either the Bible teaches polygamy or it doesn't. And, if it teaches that polygamy is OK, then it's OK all the time...and if so, then it's OK for women to have more than one husband just as it's OK for men to have more than one wife. Just because any examples of polygamy we have in the Scriptures is polygyny doesn't mean that polyandry is sinful...it just wasn't culturally common in that area.

Or, are you going to make the claim that it's godly for a man with a wife suffering from Alzheimer's to take on another wife, but it would be sin for a woman with a husband suffering from Alzheimer's to take on another husband. How would that fit with Galatians 3:28 and that we are all one in Christ?

 

[adelphos]

Re: Alzheimer's & Divorce Condoned by Pat Robertson

True...

But, how would making a vow before God and man to love one's spouse, forsaking all others, in sickness and in health, until death be contrary to Scriptures?

Loving one's spouse is totally Scriptural
Forsaking all others is not supported by Scriptures (but is a personal option that a couple can agree to, as long as it does not become a vow that is actually anti Scriptural. It would be similar to making a vow before God that you will not have any children)
Loving one's spouse in sickness and in health agrees with Scripture

(I will also add that as a woman...there is no way, no how, under any circumstances any guy is going to get me into his bed unless he is willing to make such promises and would view any woman willing to do so rather foolish...)

Well, I happen to know many women who disagree with your stand. Following Scriptural principles is never foolish in my opinion.

One more thought...a lot of people make the claim that the Bible doesn't consider polygyny a sin (even though there is that about "the husband of one wife") but I don't see too many people making the same claim about polyandry.

1. Husband of one wife may be translated three ways, and applies specifically to church leaders even if one embraced only one translation of that verse.
2. Polyandry is forbidden in Scripture.

I do live deep in Mormon country and though most Mormons today reject polygyny as being godly some will still agree to the principle of it. However, I've never met anyone who thinks it's OK for a woman to have more than one husband.

I am not a mormon, and do not see any passage that encourages polyandry.

Perhaps this is the exception...that it is OK for a woman to have more than one husband if one of them is suffering from Alzheimer's or is otherwise "brain dead".

It still is forbidden.

But, the only way it is possible that it's OK for anyone to have more than one spouse is if it's OK all the time. Either the Bible teaches polygamy or it doesn't. And, if it teaches that polygamy is OK, then it's OK all the time...and if so, then it's OK for women to have more than one husband just as it's OK for men to have more than one wife. Just because any examples of polygamy we have in the Scriptures is polygyny doesn't mean that polyandry is sinful...it just wasn't culturally common in that area.

It is more than just an issue of example, it is an issue of authority, leadership, and allowable covenant.

Or, are you going to make the claim that it's godly for a man with a wife suffering from Alzheimer's to take on another wife, but it would be sin for a woman with a husband suffering from Alzheimer's to take on another husband. How would that fit with Galatians 3:28 and that we are all one in Christ?

It would fit with Gal 3:28 based upon the context principle. It has nothing to do with marriage, but specifically is referring to justification by faith.

 

[felix]

Re: Alzheimer's & Divorce Condoned by Pat Robertson

Scripture doesn't necessarily condemn polygyny, but Scripture also teaches us that we must honor any vow made before God and man.

What were your wedding vows?

In ours, Steve and I vowed to "forsake all others" until "by death we are parted". We also had that part in there "in sickness and in health"

Doesn't leave much room for anyone else.

handy, does that vow valid according to scriptures? More than yes or no, are from the evil one.

(Matt 5:34-37) "But I say to you, do not swear at all: neither by heaven, for it is God's throne; nor by the earth, for it is His footstool; nor by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the great King. Nor shall you swear by your head, because you cannot make one hair white or black. But let your 'Yes' be 'Yes,' and your 'No,' 'No.' For whatever is more than these is from the evil one.

I agree with adelphos. There should be NO divorce as taught by Christ in the below verse.

(Matt 5:32) "But I say to you that whoever divorces his wife for any reason except sexual immorality causes her to commit adultery; and whoever marries a woman who is divorced commits adultery.

However, if he is a male, he can take a second wife. Having said that, he must take care of the first wife with all love and support.

 

[jasoncran]

Re: Alzheimer's & Divorce Condoned by Pat Robertson

handy, does that vow valid according to scriptures? More than yes or no, are from the evil one.

(Matt 5:34-37) "But I say to you, do not swear at all: neither by heaven, for it is God's throne; nor by the earth, for it is His footstool; nor by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the great King. Nor shall you swear by your head, because you cannot make one hair white or black. But let your 'Yes' be 'Yes,' and your 'No,' 'No.' For whatever is more than these is from the evil one.

I agree with adelphos. There should be NO divorce as taught by Christ in the below verse.

(Matt 5:32) "But I say to you that whoever divorces his wife for any reason except sexual immorality causes her to commit adultery; and whoever marries a woman who is divorced commits adultery.

However, if he is a male, he can take a second wife. Having said that, he must take care of the first wife with all love and support.

in some countries and sects of islam women can marry more then one man,. nepal comes to mind.

 

[adelphos]

Re: Alzheimer's & Divorce Condoned by Pat Robertson

in some countries and sects of islam women can marry more then one man,. nepal comes to mind.

If one would list all the countries that allow polygyny, one will be surprised to note that the majority of them have no problems with the practice of polygyny.

 

[handy]

Re: Alzheimer's & Divorce Condoned by Pat Robertson

So let's discuss the Scriptures:

1. Husband of one wife may be translated three ways, and applies specifically to church leaders even if one embraced only one translation of that verse.
2. Polyandry is forbidden in Scripture.

Showing from the Scriptures let's see how only church leaders need to have just one wife.

Showing from Scriptures let's see were polyandry is forbidden.

I must say I'm a little surprised that I seem to be the only one who is challenging this idea that a guy whose wife is suffering from Alzheimer's can just take on another wife...but a woman is left to care for her husband alone.

 

[adelphos]

Re: Alzheimer's & Divorce Condoned by Pat Robertson

So let's discuss the Scriptures:

1. Husband of one wife may be translated three ways, and applies specifically to church leaders even if one embraced only one translation of that verse.

The Greek word used for "one" in 1 Timothy 3:2 is "mia." It may, and is, translated else where in the New Testament as either an indefinate article, "a", or "first."

2. Polyandry is forbidden in Scripture.

Scripture does not allow a woman to have more than one husband at the same time. This is seen in both the Old Testament and the New Testament.

"The man who commits adultery with another man's wife, he who commits adultery with his neighbours wife, the adulterer and the adulteress, shall surely be put to death."
-Leviticus 20 v 10

"If a man is found lying with a woman married to a husband, then both of them shall die, both the man that lay with the woman, and the woman, so you shall put away the evil person from Israel."
-Deuteronomy 22 v 22
​

"So then if, while her husband is living she marries another man, she shall be called an adulteress, but if her husband has died, she is free from that law, so that she is not an adulteress, even though she marries another man."
-Romans Chapter 7 v 3
​

Showing from the Scriptures let's see how only church leaders need to have just one wife.

Only one passage suggest (depending on how one translates the passage 1 Tim 3:2) that leaders have only one wife. My point in making this comment is that if 1 Tim 3:2 is teaching monogamy only, that does not mean that it applies to all believers.

[/quote]Showing from Scriptures let's see were polyandry is forbidden.[/quote]

I have above, but there are many other passages.

I must say I'm a little surprised that I seem to be the only one who is challenging this idea that a guy whose wife is suffering from Alzheimer's can just take on another wife...but a woman is left to care for her husband alone.

Well, in my humble opinion, if we as believers would go back to Scriptures for our concepts concerning marriage, a woman would not be left alone to care for her husband - there would be more than one wife. The burden would be greatly softened.

Respectfully,

Adelphos

 

[reba]

Re: Alzheimer's & Divorce Condoned by Pat Robertson

Your not alone Handy you just say it so much better then i do...

 

[reba]

Re: Alzheimer's & Divorce Condoned by Pat Robertson

Christ is the husband the church is the bride,

Christ has one wife.

He is our example.

 

[Bonairos]

Re: Alzheimer's & Divorce Condoned by Pat Robertson

I must say I'm a little surprised that I seem to be the only one who is challenging this idea that a guy whose wife is suffering from Alzheimer's can just take on another wife...

I'm suprised how the dialog went from divorce to having more than one wife! HAHA

Here would be the problem with "me" having the license to have more than one wife.

I look at the role of a wife to be expressed through a person, a woman (singular).

If I were to accept that the role of a wife could be expressed through a plurality of women then I would have no hope of loving my wives(?) as Christ loved the church. I would be divided in my affections and naturally place one above the other (thereby denying someone).

But that is one problem I choose not to entertain.

As for divorcing (whether in sickness or in health), it would no doubt reveal something about "me" and my innermost beliefs.



Be blessed, Stay blessed, and be Bold!

 

[adelphos]

Re: Alzheimer's & Divorce Condoned by Pat Robertson

Christ is the husband the church is the bride,

Christ has one wife.

He is our example.

Even if I agreed that this was meant to be an example of marriage, it is very anecdotal. The fact of the matter there are no Scriptures that teach contrary to a man being allowed to have more that wives.

Besides, one could argue the fact that church is used in the sense of plurality - He is actually marrying millions *wink*

Respectfully,

Adelphos

 

[adelphos]

Re: Alzheimer's & Divorce Condoned by Pat Robertson

I'm suprised how the dialog went from divorce to having more than one wife! HAHA

lol...

I was just presenting a practical solution. I guess I accidently hi-jacked the thread. I think I will start a thread on this topic.

Here would be the problem with "me" having the license to have more than one wife.

I look at the role of a wife to be expressed through a person, a woman (singular).

If I were to accept that the role of a wife could be expressed through a plurality of women then I would have no hope of loving my wives(?) as Christ loved the church. I would be divided in my affections and naturally place one above the other (thereby denying someone).

But that is one problem I choose not to entertain.

I understand, but that still does not make it unscriptural.

As for divorcing (whether in sickness or in health), it would no doubt reveal something about "me" and my innermost beliefs.

Amen!

 

[handy]

Re: Alzheimer's & Divorce Condoned by Pat Robertson

It is very compelling to me that everywhere in the Scriptures, where God Himself is speaking of marriage, He uses singulars instead of plurals, man and wife. Never man and wives. Polygyny existed yes...as did a number of other things God never approved of. But, when we search the Scriptures to see how God looks at marriage it's one husband, one wife.

Well, in my humble opinion, if we as believers would go back to Scriptures for our concepts concerning marriage, a woman would not be left alone to care for her husband - there would be more than one wife. The burden would be greatly softened.

It seems as if it would work that way...usually it doesn't though. Many times a plurality of wives leads to not only financial hardship and poverty, but also fractions where one wife is the "favored" one and the others are little more than second class servants. There are clear examples in the Scriptures for this as well as examples I could give of folks living in Southern Utah. Many times, the children of the "other" wives (not the favored one) face abuse. Most times, the father of children born to multiple wives will only interact with the children (mainly the sons) of the "favored" wife. The others are generally at the mercy of the "favored" wife...and she's fighting hard for her own kid's interests. I have first hand reports of people who have grown up in these kinds of homes...it's not pretty.

Should the husband of these "real world" plural marriages die...the favored wife and her children general inherit whatever material possessions there are...the others are left with pretty much nothing.

One guy I've communicated with before grew up in S. Utah in one of these communities. He managed to "get out" and tried to go back to his "home" to convince his younger sister to come live with him before she was married to much older man at the age of 16. When it was found out that he was in contact with his younger sister, his older half-brothers threatened death. He was completely credible. (His younger sister did in fact come live with him...one thing about living outside the law, they don't necessarily want to go to the authorities.)

Can anyone point out from the Scriptures examples of multiple wives households where peace and harmony reigned?

 

[eddy]

Re: Alzheimer's & Divorce Condoned by Pat Robertson

It is very compelling to me that everywhere in the Scriptures, where God Himself is speaking of marriage, He uses singulars instead of plurals, man and wife. Never man and wives. Polygyny existed yes...as did a number of other things God never approved of. But, when we search the Scriptures to see how God looks at marriage it's one husband, one wife.

Suggesting God did not approve means sin. God gifted men with wives. God would not do that if having multiple wives was sin.

 

[handy]

Re: Alzheimer's & Divorce Condoned by Pat Robertson

I would be interested in examining the Scriptures that tells us that God Himself gifted anyone with more than one wife...

 

[handy]

Re: Alzheimer's & Divorce Condoned by Pat Robertson

Sort of seeking out the answer to my own question...the first mention of plural marriage in Scriptures is this:

Genesis 4:19 Lamech took to himself two wives: the name of the one was Adah, and the name of the other, Zillah.

Not something God did, Lamech took it upon himself to do this.

 

[reba]

Re: Alzheimer's & Divorce Condoned by Pat Robertson

How many Wives did Job end up with? When God doubled his stuff.

 

[craigmn3]

Re: Alzheimer's & Divorce Condoned by Pat Robertson

How many Wives did Job end up with? When God doubled his stuff.

And was God really blessing Job with two. I have one, and that's enough for me...phew:eeeekkk


You know what they say....On the seventh day God rested, then He made woman, and no one has rested since