What's new
By:
Filters
Christian Forums

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

Polygyny and the Bible

Re: Alzheimer's & Divorce Condoned by Pat Robertson

I checked on that Reba, and find that He didn't increase the number of wives (one) that he started with.

The closest I can find where God "gave" someone multiple wives is 2 Samuel 12:8:

I also gave you your master’s house and your master’s wives into your care, and I gave you the house of Israel and Judah; and if that had been too little, I would have added to you many more things like these!

Now, the KJV uses the term "into your bosom" which indicates intimacy, but does not always mean this. "Into the bosom" seems to be an expression that means care, closeness.

I'll be convinced that God gave David Saul's wives for the express purpose of intimate partners when I see that David did indeed "take" them in such a way. So far I haven't seen any indication that he did and there is very strong evidence that he didn't...namely that he was married to Micah, Saul's daughter by one of his wives. If David slept with both Micah and her mother, all three would be punished by being burned alive. (See Leviticus 20:14)

The list of David's wives do not include Saul's wives.



You know what they say....On the seventh day God rested, then He made woman, and no one has rested since :lol
Click to expand...

:rollingpin
 
Re: Alzheimer's & Divorce Condoned by Pat Robertson

Also, not only are multiple wifes allowed, but concubines are too. Slave wives.
 
Re: Alzheimer's & Divorce Condoned by Pat Robertson

I think there is a big difference in saying that multiple wives and concubines were "allowed" in the Old Testament and saying that this is God's plan for us who have been redeemed by Christ and call Him "Lord".

My questions stand:

Can anyone point out from the Scriptures examples of multiple wives households where peace and harmony reigned?

I would be interested in examining the Scriptures that tells us that God Himself gifted anyone with more than one wife...

And I'll ask one more...Can anyone show any Scripture that shows that God Himself desires more than one wife for a man?

I've examined what seems to be on the pro-polygamy blogosphere the "go-to" text of 2 Samuel 12:8 about God giving David Saul's wives...and again, find that in no way do the Scriptures tell us that David ever kept these two women as wives, or sleep with them as wives and as a matter of fact, had he done so with Michel's mother, the three of them would be subject to death by burning. Not something that lend's itself to God "giving" a man more than one "real" wife (the kind you sleep with). In the case of 2 Samuel 12, it seems clear God is rebuking David for not being grateful in all that God had done for him and turning to sin instead.

If God is so for polygamy...why isn't there ample Scriptural evidence of God giving men many wives? Why is the language of Scripture, when speaking of God and marriage in the singular.

Don't show me what Old Testament polygamists did...they did lots of things in the OT that weren't necessarily Scriptural.
 
Re: Alzheimer's & Divorce Condoned by Pat Robertson

I agree Dora. My reading of Job never implies other then one wife.

Look what lust for "strange ladies" did to David and Solomon.

1Ki 11:3 And he had seven hundred wives, princesses, and three hundred concubines: and his wives turned away his heart.
 
Re: Alzheimer's & Divorce Condoned by Pat Robertson

handy said:
It is very compelling to me that everywhere in the Scriptures, where God Himself is speaking of marriage, He uses singulars instead of plurals, man and wife. Never man and wives. Polygyny existed yes...as did a number of other things God never approved of. But, when we search the Scriptures to see how God looks at marriage it's one husband, one wife.
Click to expand...

Are you sure about this one? You may want to search this a little more before you make such an absolute statement.

It seems as if it would work that way...usually it doesn't though. Many times a plurality of wives leads to not only financial hardship and poverty, but also fractions where one wife is the "favored" one and the others are little more than second class servants.
Click to expand...

Although I don't advocate those negatives, if God's Word allows it, that settles it. For that matter, if one were to study the success rate of monogamy in the US, could we not derive some anecdotal suggestions that would conclude "Avoid Marriage at All Costs." Just because marriage, monogamous or polygynous, have problems inherent within, does not make either wrong, in and of itself, does it?

There are clear examples in the Scriptures for this as well as examples I could give of folks living in Southern Utah. Many times, the children of the "other" wives (not the favored one) face abuse.
Click to expand...

This is similar to the arguments I hear from unbelievers about reasons why one should not get married. From my perspective, God's Word is the final authority for all faith and practice.

Most times, the father of children born to multiple wives will only interact with the children (mainly the sons) of the "favored" wife. The others are generally at the mercy of the "favored" wife...and she's fighting hard for her own kid's interests. I have first hand reports of people who have grown up in these kinds of homes...it's not pretty.
Click to expand...

Just goes to show you why we need the Bible as the final authority, not the book of Mormon.

Should the husband of these "real world" plural marriages die...the favored wife and her children general inherit whatever material possessions there are...the others are left with pretty much nothing.
Click to expand...

This is not Scripture. My battle cry is this: Let us get back to the simplicity of God's Word. Using Mormons for an anti-polygyny stand is like using a Hitler as an example of why we shouldn't have leaders.

One guy I've communicated with before grew up in S. Utah in one of these communities. He managed to "get out" and tried to go back to his "home" to convince his younger sister to come live with him before she was married to much older man at the age of 16. When it was found out that he was in contact with his younger sister, his older half-brothers threatened death. He was completely credible. (His younger sister did in fact come live with him...one thing about living outside the law, they don't necessarily want to go to the authorities.)
Click to expand...

Yes, this is how cults do things.

Can anyone point out from the Scriptures examples of multiple wives households where peace and harmony reigned?
Click to expand...

Can anyone point out from the Scriptures were monogamous families were in peace and harmony? BTW, if you use the argument I did not see any problems in this monogamous family or this monogamous family, that isn't really evidence.
 
Re: Alzheimer's & Divorce Condoned by Pat Robertson

It is not policically correct to point out that polygamy and concubines are obviously allowed by God.
 
Re: Alzheimer's & Divorce Condoned by Pat Robertson

Sorry Mike, I guess you're earning your keep on this one...

Once Mike makes the break, I'll respond more fully to your thoughts Adelphos, but for now I'd just like to ask if you can provide the Scriptural basis for saying that God "gives" more than one wife in marriage.

There is a huge difference in just recording the history of what Old Testament men did as a practice and stating that God "allows" it or blessed it or encouraged it in anyway.

Show me the Scriptures that tell us that God "gifted" men with wives.

Also, I care not whether it's "politically correct" or not...just show me where it's Scripturally correct to say that God gives men more than one wife.

Naturally, we can give Mike a break and not respond until he creates the thread for polygamy and moves this conversation to it.
 
Re: Alzheimer's & Divorce Condoned by Pat Robertson

handy said:
I would be interested in examining the Scriptures that tells us that God Himself gifted anyone with more than one wife...
Click to expand...


ok...

"...and [I, God] gave unto thee [David] the household of thy lord, and the wives of thy lord, into thy bosom, and gave unto thee the house of Israel and Judah. And, if this had been too little, I could have further given thee more and more of such things."

2 Samuel 12:8 EB
Click to expand...
God is speaking through His prophet Nathan, and while calling Nathan to repent for his adultery (taking another man's wife), He clearly does not condemn David for having at least 7 wives by this time (1 Sam 18:27; 25:42-43; 2 Sam 3:2-5). In fact, God gives him Saul's wives!!!

Who gave David Saul's wives?

Do you think God would have done something that was morally wrong?

In fact, God makes it clear that if David would have asked for it, God would have given him even more. (Which He did by the way, for we know that he married somewhere around 13 wives personally, that is, not including Saul's).

Now if David was wrong practicing polygyny, why did God give this report about him:

"Because David did that which was right in the eyes of the LORD, and turned not aside from any thing that he commanded him all the days of his life, save only in the matter of Uriah the Hittite. "
1 Kings 15:5.

Two verses before that, in 1 Kings 15:3, the Bible says that David's heart was perfect with the LORD God.

Just some thoughts on the matter...

Respectfully

Adelphos
 
Re: Alzheimer's & Divorce Condoned by Pat Robertson

It is a, sign of the times that, liberalism seems to influence our society in such a way, that you have Christians making such outrageous judgement's. The Bible basically says, until death do we part. And Yet, a man who should know better (supposedly knowing the Bible) and yet takes it upon himself to declare his own opinion and seeking to sway others into disagreement with the Scriptures. Some of what we see on T.V., is more, serving manna than God. Money and heresy seem to be at the forefront of Television evangelism. They say, "send me your money and God will bless you beyond your wildest dreams." Money,Money,Money. Followed by heresies/false teachings and outrageous declarations... YIKES!!!
 
Adelphos,

Are you connected in any way:
agree with the teaching
have family members
belong to the group
share Bible studies,
to LDS or FLDS or any other such group?
 
adelphos said:
Does Scripture allow for the practice of polygyny or not?
Click to expand...


Yes

Samuuel 12:8
And I gave thee thy master's house, and thy master's wives into thy bosom, and gave thee the house of Israel and of Judah; and if that had been too little, I would moreover have given unto thee such and such things.

Deuteronomy 21:15
If a man has two wives, and he loves one but not the other, and both bear him sons but the firstborn is the son of the wife he does not love, 16 when he wills his property to his sons, he must not give the rights of the firstborn to the son of the wife he loves in preference to his actual firstborn, the son of the wife he does not love.

Clearly Gods sees fit to gift wives and concubines to me.

Men are to respect their wives. Much like how men respect their cars. I must know its limits and repspect them less I wreck and die, but I do not let the car drive me. I must be in control.

God Three males combined into one. Created Adam in His image. The female is but a subjugate part of the flesh male. Women are to facilitate reproduction. They are prone to emotional manipulation by satan thus to remain silent.
 
eddy said:
Yes

Samuuel 12:8
And I gave thee thy master's house, and thy master's wives into thy bosom, and gave thee the house of Israel and of Judah; and if that had been too little, I would moreover have given unto thee such and such things.

Deuteronomy 21:15
If a man has two wives, and he loves one but not the other, and both bear him sons but the firstborn is the son of the wife he does not love, 16 when he wills his property to his sons, he must not give the rights of the firstborn to the son of the wife he loves in preference to his actual firstborn, the son of the wife he does not love.

Clearly Gods sees fit to gift wives and concubines to me.

Men are to respect their wives. Much like how men respect their cars. I must know its limits and repspect them less I wreck and die, but I do not let the car drive me. I must be in control.

God Three males combined into one. Created Adam in His image. The female is but a subjugate part of the flesh male. Women are to facilitate reproduction. They are prone to emotional manipulation by satan thus to remain silent.
Click to expand...
I hope that was all tongue-in-cheek....
 
eddy said:
why? It might not be what some people want to hear, but the bible is quite clear. There are many more scriptures that reaffirm.
Click to expand...
It is very much not what the Bible says and you're wrong on a few points. I don't have the time to deal with this right now, so hopefully someone else does.
 
Free said:
It is very much not what the Bible says and you're wrong on a few points. I don't have the time to deal with this right now, so hopefully someone else does.
Click to expand...


Feminism has changed many minds about the proper role of women. In this politically correct corrupted world where feminism has taken hold I don't doubt many are led astry. God word doesn't change.
 
Okay, so where do supporters of polygamy see that the early believers throughout all of the Christian Church's history that it was practiced to accepted among believers?

Genesis 2:24 "For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and they will become one flesh."

It says "his wife"; not "wives", and she shall become one flesh.

Deuteronomy 17:17 says of a king who seizes land, "He must not take many wives, or his heart will be led astray."

That's good advice!

1 Timothy 3
" 1 Here is a trustworthy saying: If anyone sets his heart on being an overseer,[a] he desires a noble task. 2 Now the overseer must be above reproach, the husband of but one wife,..."
Again in verse 12
"A deacon must be the husband of but one wife"

Of the elder, Titus 1 says "An elder must be blameless, the husband of but one wife.."

These instructions are for church leaders, but I believe it shows the model God intended for marriage. From the earliest time of the Church, this model is consistently shown to be lived out by early believers. It's only been in the last few centuries that certain sects outside of the Christian Church have supported polygamy.
 
reba said:
Adelphos,

Are you connected in any way:
agree with the teaching
have family members
belong to the group
share Bible studies,
to LDS or FLDS or any other such group?
Click to expand...

Hello,

No, I do not know any one who is a FLDS, for that matter, I don't know anyone who is a LDS....lol
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top