Polygyny and the Bible

[jasoncran]

Re: Alzheimer's & Divorce Condoned by Pat Robertson

So let's discuss the Scriptures:

1. Husband of one wife may be translated three ways, and applies specifically to church leaders even if one embraced only one translation of that verse.
2. Polyandry is forbidden in Scripture.

Showing from the Scriptures let's see how only church leaders need to have just one wife.

Showing from Scriptures let's see were polyandry is forbidden.

I must say I'm a little surprised that I seem to be the only one who is challenging this idea that a guy whose wife is suffering from Alzheimer's can just take on another wife...but a woman is left to care for her husband alone.

for the record i am on your side of the issue. i cant do my wife that way. nor, would could i marry another. women fight over the man. god made eve to be a help meet for adam not a serveant. its a team, man has a role and woman has a role. theres jealously in these polygamous marriages.

 

[adelphos]

Re: Alzheimer's & Divorce Condoned by Pat Robertson

Sort of seeking out the answer to my own question...the first mention of plural marriage in Scriptures is this:

Genesis 4:19 Lamech took to himself two wives: the name of the one was Adah, and the name of the other, Zillah.

Not something God did, Lamech took it upon himself to do this.

Yet, Scripture never condemns him or the practice.

 

[Free]

Feminism has changed many minds about the proper role of women. In this politically correct corrupted world where feminism has taken hold I don't doubt many are led astry. God word doesn't change.

This has absolutely nothing to do with feminism and everything to do with your sexism and lack of understanding about what the Bible teaches on at least a few subjects, including the nature of God and just who was created in God's image.

 

[Free]

Re: Alzheimer's & Divorce Condoned by Pat Robertson

Yet, Scripture never condemns him or the practice.

It is implicitly condemned. It was never a part of God's intention for marriage.

 

[handy]

Adelphos, in the busyness of the thread and it's getting splintered the way it did, I can understand why you may have overlooked this:

I've examined what seems to be on the pro-polygamy blogosphere the "go-to" text of 2 Samuel 12:8 about God giving David Saul's wives...and again, find that in no way do the Scriptures tell us that David ever kept these two women as wives, or sleep with them as wives and as a matter of fact, had he done so with Michel's mother, the three of them would be subject to death by burning. Not something that lend's itself to God "giving" a man more than one "real" wife (the kind you sleep with). In the case of 2 Samuel 12, it seems clear God is rebuking David for not being grateful in all that God had done for him and turning to sin instead.

When I wrote this post, I was assuming that the wives of Saul lived as slaves in David's household. However, I've done a little more research. This is what I've found:

2 Samuel 9:6-9
Mephibosheth, the son of Jonathan the son of Saul, came to David and fell on his face and prostrated himself. And David said, “Mephibosheth.†And he said, “Here is your servant!†David said to him, “Do not fear, for I will surely show kindness to you for the sake of your father Jonathan, and will restore to you all the land of your grandfather Saul; and you shall eat at my table regularly.†Again he prostrated himself and said, “What is your servant, that you should regard a dead dog like me?†Then the king called Saul’s servant Ziba and said to him, “All that belonged to Saul and to all his house I have given to your master’s grandson.

I don't think it can be said that 2 Samuel 12:8 teaches us that God gave Saul's wives, one of whom was David's mother-in-law, as wives for David. Nathan doesn't say that they were, no where is it chronicled that David took any of Saul's wives or concubines to wife, and it is recorded that David turned all that belonged to Saul over to his beloved friend, Jonathan's son.


Any other texts out there that shows that God gave any man multiple wives?

Eddy, again, just pointing to the fact that men had more than one wife back then doesn't mean that God "gave" them to a man. Folks also divorced and remarried in the Old Testament, but Jesus made it clear that wasn't God's intention for marriage.

Until someone can give clear scriptural teaching that God "allows" for polygyny (like folks assumed it was God who "allowed" for divorce) or shows that God speaks of marriage as more than one man/one wife...I remain unconvinced.

 

[reba]

Good grief what an eye opening thread.

 

[eddy]

Faithful friend of God and father of the Hebrew nation
"Father of the faithful"
3 Wives - Sarah, Hagar and Keturah
"Now Sarai Abram's wife bare him no children: and she had an handmaid, an Egyptian, whose name was Hagar." Genesis 16:1
"And Sarai Abram's wife took Hagar her maid the Egyptian, after Abram had dwelt ten years in the land of Canaan, and gave her to her husband Abram to be his wife." Genesis 16:3
"Then again Abraham took a wife, and her name was Keturah." Genesis 25:1


"And in that day
seven women shall take hold of one man,
saying,
We will eat our own bread,
and wear our own apparel:
only let us be called by thy name,
to take away our reproach. "
Isaiah 4:1.

"Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom. And five of them were wise, and five were foolish. ...While the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept. And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; ...And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage:" Matthew 25:1-2,5-6c,10a-c (See verses 1-13).

It should be noted, however, that this is not a literal, physical marriage to literal, physical women. While it was only a parable, even so, Jesus would never have described Himself this way in a parable if polygamy was a sin.

 

[adelphos]

Re: Alzheimer's & Divorce Condoned by Pat Robertson

How many Wives did Job end up with? When God doubled his stuff.

Scriptures do not say. On the other hand, the Song of Solomon was not written to Solomon's first wife (Song of Sol 6:8-9).

Respectfully,

Adelphos

 

[adelphos]

Re: Alzheimer's & Divorce Condoned by Pat Robertson

And was God really blessing Job with two. I have one, and that's enough for me...phew:eeeekkk


You know what they say....On the seventh day God rested, then He made woman, and no one has rested since

lol...hehehaha

 

[adelphos]

Re: Alzheimer's & Divorce Condoned by Pat Robertson

I checked on that Reba, and find that He didn't increase the number of wives (one) that he started with.

The closest I can find where God "gave" someone multiple wives is 2 Samuel 12:8:

I also gave you your master’s house and your master’s wives into your care, and I gave you the house of Israel and Judah; and if that had been too little, I would have added to you many more things like these!

Now, the KJV uses the term "into your bosom" which indicates intimacy, but does not always mean this. "Into the bosom" seems to be an expression that means care, closeness.

I'll be convinced that God gave David Saul's wives for the express purpose of intimate partners when I see that David did indeed "take" them in such a way. So far I haven't seen any indication that he did and there is very strong evidence that he didn't...namely that he was married to Micah, Saul's daughter by one of his wives. If David slept with both Micah and her mother, all three would be punished by being burned alive. (See Leviticus 20:14)

The list of David's wives do not include Saul's wives.

I agree that the list of David's wives do not include Saul's wives. He may have just placed them in a harem and took care of them. I will need to study that one. None the less, we know that God gave them to David, and that David had many wives, yet, he was only disciplined for adultery with Bathsheba.

Respectfully,

Adelphos

 

[theLords]

Samuuel 12:8
And I gave thee thy master's house, and thy master's wives into thy bosom, and gave thee the house of Israel and of Judah; and if that had been too little, I would moreover have given unto thee such and such things.

I won't address this since handy has already done so twice with these posts:

I checked on that Reba, and find that He didn't increase the number of wives (one) that he started with.

The closest I can find where God "gave" someone multiple wives is 2 Samuel 12:8:

I also gave you your master’s house and your master’s wives into your care, and I gave you the house of Israel and Judah; and if that had been too little, I would have added to you many more things like these!

Now, the KJV uses the term "into your bosom" which indicates intimacy, but does not always mean this. "Into the bosom" seems to be an expression that means care, closeness.

I'll be convinced that God gave David Saul's wives for the express purpose of intimate partners when I see that David did indeed "take" them in such a way. So far I haven't seen any indication that he did and there is very strong evidence that he didn't...namely that he was married to Micah, Saul's daughter by one of his wives. If David slept with both Micah and her mother, all three would be punished by being burned alive. (See Leviticus 20:14)

The list of David's wives do not include Saul's wives.

I think there is a big difference in saying that multiple wives and concubines were "allowed" in the Old Testament and saying that this is God's plan for us who have been redeemed by Christ and call Him "Lord".

My questions stand:

Can anyone point out from the Scriptures examples of multiple wives households where peace and harmony reigned?

I would be interested in examining the Scriptures that tells us that God Himself gifted anyone with more than one wife...

And I'll ask one more...Can anyone show any Scripture that shows that God Himself desires more than one wife for a man?

I've examined what seems to be on the pro-polygamy blogosphere the "go-to" text of 2 Samuel 12:8 about God giving David Saul's wives...and again, find that in no way do the Scriptures tell us that David ever kept these two women as wives, or sleep with them as wives and as a matter of fact, had he done so with Michel's mother, the three of them would be subject to death by burning. Not something that lend's itself to God "giving" a man more than one "real" wife (the kind you sleep with). In the case of 2 Samuel 12, it seems clear God is rebuking David for not being grateful in all that God had done for him and turning to sin instead.

If God is so for polygamy...why isn't there ample Scriptural evidence of God giving men many wives? Why is the language of Scripture, when speaking of God and marriage in the singular.

Don't show me what Old Testament polygamists did...they did lots of things in the OT that weren't necessarily Scriptural.

Deuteronomy 21:15
If a man has two wives, and he loves one but not the other, and both bear him sons but the firstborn is the son of the wife he does not love, 16 when he wills his property to his sons, he must not give the rights of the firstborn to the son of the wife he loves in preference to his actual firstborn, the son of the wife he does not love.

Just because the law regulated polygamy does not mean that it was God's desire that polygamy be His "Plan A." Christ clearly told us that God allowed divorce in the OT "because of the hardness of their hearts." (Matthew 19:8) I think it is logically sound to follow this reasoning to proclaim that polygamy, like divorce, was not God's original plan from the get go. He could have easily given Adam many Eves. He did not. Wouldn't the perfect time to give a man a plurality of wives be during the beginning of civilization? I'm sure that Adam and Eve could have multiplied much quicker had there been a Betty, Alice, Gretchen, and the like. However, before sin came into the world, amongst paradise in perfect sinless creation, God saw it fitting that Adam only be given one wife. It wasn't until the fall of man came that polygamy was introduced.

Men are to respect their wives. Much like how men respect their cars. I must know its limits and repspect them less I wreck and die, but I do not let the car drive me. I must be in control.

I'm going to be very honest and say that this statement: "Much like how men respect their cars" is incredibly crass and disheartening. Is this really the attitude you think God wants you to have towards your future wife or current wife? The loving, gentle God who so delicately, tenderly, and mercifully forgave a naked adulteress who stood before Him, would never have this kind of attitude toward women.

While men should respect their wives (as respect is a form of love), the Biblical mandate is that "husbands love their wives the way Christ loves the Church." (Ephesians 5:25) That means if that "car" leads you into a wreck--unto death (like the Bride lead Christ unto death)--that you are to die rather than keep your control. How about that?

God Three males combined into one. Created Adam in His image. The female is but a subjugate part of the flesh male. Women are to facilitate reproduction. They are prone to emotional manipulation by satan thus to remain silent.

The "female" is only a "subjugate part of the flesh male" due to the curse from the fall. (Genesis 3:15-16) So really this line of thinking upholds Satan's desires--that mankind not find redemption and freedom from the curse of sin in Christ. Galatians 3:28 tells us God's heart in the matter. I won't address the "remain silent" bit except with a . It truly pains me to see these kinds of beliefs still found within the Church.

 

[adelphos]

Re: Alzheimer's & Divorce Condoned by Pat Robertson

It is not policically correct to point out that polygamy and concubines are obviously allowed by God.

...and it is not popular in Christian camps either...

 

[theLords]

Re: Alzheimer's & Divorce Condoned by Pat Robertson

Can anyone point out from the Scriptures were monogamous families were in peace and harmony? BTW, if you use the argument I did not see any problems in this monogamous family or this monogamous family, that isn't really evidence.

How about an extremely obvious one: Abraham and Sarah.

EDIT:

Can I second that motion with an Isaac and Rebekah?

Had Jacob not been tricked into marrying Leah (a polygamous marriage) I think it would be fair to say Jacob and Rachel would have made it onto this list.

 

[Free]

Re: Alzheimer's & Divorce Condoned by Pat Robertson

...and it is not popular in Christian camps either...

Because it has no place in Christianity whatsoever.

 

[theLords]

Faithful friend of God and father of the Hebrew nation
"Father of the faithful"
3 Wives - Sarah, Hagar and Keturah
"Now Sarai Abram's wife bare him no children: and she had an handmaid, an Egyptian, whose name was Hagar." Genesis 16:1
"And Sarai Abram's wife took Hagar her maid the Egyptian, after Abram had dwelt ten years in the land of Canaan, and gave her to her husband Abram to be his wife." Genesis 16:3
"Then again Abraham took a wife, and her name was Keturah." Genesis 25:1

I think your evidence is not truly evidence at all. For starters, Hagar gave birth to Ishmael, who would go on to be connected to a false religion and be a bitter enemy of Abraham's (God) promised son, Isaac. Hagar and Ishmael were both sent away so that Isaac would inherit the promise. The marriage of Hagar was about trying to accomplish God's promise not about polygamy.

Secondly, Abraham took Keturah as his wife only after Sarah died:

Genesis 24:67
Isaac brought her into the tent of his mother Sarah, and he married Rebekah. So she became his wife, and he loved her; and Isaac was comforted after his mother’s death.

 

[handy]

Re: Alzheimer's & Divorce Condoned by Pat Robertson

I agree that the list of David's wives do not include Saul's wives. He may have just placed them in a harem and took care of them. I will need to study that one. None the less, we know that God gave them to David, and that David had many wives, yet, he was only disciplined for adultery with Bathsheba.

Respectfully,

Adelphos

This thread is so busy, and I'm busy with household things, so I can't properly respond to everything.

Just a quick response to this though:

We both assumed various things about Saul's wives when they came under David's care...however, 2 Samuel 9 clears it up...David gave them over to Jonathan's son, along with everything else that was Saul's.

Even you admit that they were never David's wives...so this clearly isn't the "go to" Scripture to somehow "prove" that polygyny is approved by God.

In regards to Solomon...one need look no further than two texts:

The one Mike already shared:

Deuteronomy 17:17 says of a king who seizes land, "He must not take many wives, or his heart will be led astray."

and1 Kings 11:3 He (Solomon) had seven hundred wives, princesses, and three hundred concubines, and his wives turned his heart away.

Certainly not a strong Scriptural support for polygyny.

 

[adelphos]

Re: Alzheimer's & Divorce Condoned by Pat Robertson

I think there is a big difference in saying that multiple wives and concubines were "allowed" in the Old Testament and saying that this is God's plan for us who have been redeemed by Christ and call Him "Lord".

I understand why you are saying this, however, this is centered on many assumptions. Where does one begin to discover the heart of God? It comes from the Scriptures under the Old Covenant! In fact, the Law of the Lord is Perfect (Psalm 19:7), and expresses God's heart. Therefore, before making the claim that it is not God's plan, would not be better to look into the Law for some insights to the heart of God?

My questions stand:

Can anyone point out from the Scriptures examples of multiple wives households where peace and harmony reigned?

I can show where there are no negative references in polygyny households, but I do not know what the point is... you see, if there is no peace and harmony, it is because of the sinful nature, not the circumstances one finds themself. For example, if I was shot in my leg, one can say that that shooting caused me to be bitter. However, the reality is that my bitterness would be a work of the flesh no matter what circumstance I would be able to point to.

I would be interested in examining the Scriptures that tells us that God Himself gifted anyone with more than one wife...

What does this matter?

And I'll ask one more...Can anyone show any Scripture that shows that God Himself desires more than one wife for a man?

I think the point is not that God Himself desires more than one wife for a man. God allows for man to be single, monogamous or polygynous within the framework of His will. All of these statuses are equally valid and valuable within the framework of God's will for individuals.

[qutoe]I've examined what seems to be on the pro-polygamy blogosphere the "go-to" text of 2 Samuel 12:8 about God giving David Saul's wives...and again, find that in no way do the Scriptures tell us that David ever kept these two women as wives, or sleep with them as wives and as a matter of fact, had he done so with Michel's mother, the three of them would be subject to death by burning. Not something that lend's itself to God "giving" a man more than one "real" wife (the kind you sleep with). In the case of 2 Samuel 12, it seems clear God is rebuking David for not being grateful in all that God had done for him and turning to sin instead.[/quote]

It does not matter if he decided to embrace all of Saul's wives sexually. They were now his responsibility.

If God is so for polygamy...why isn't there ample Scriptural evidence of God giving men many wives? Why is the language of Scripture, when speaking of God and marriage in the singular.

Please demonstrate what you mean?

Don't show me what Old Testament polygamists did...they did lots of things in the OT that weren't necessarily Scriptural.

Please show me what you mean?

Respectfully

Adelphos

 

[eddy]

This has absolutely nothing to do with feminism and everything to do with your sexism and lack of understanding about what the Bible teaches on at least a few subjects, including the nature of God and just who was created in God's image.

The bible is clear man was created in Gods image. Adam alone. Eve came later from Adams rib.

Sexism is just a liberal slander that femists use to distract and change Gods law.

 

[adelphos]

Re: Alzheimer's & Divorce Condoned by Pat Robertson

I agree Dora. My reading of Job never implies other then one wife.

Look what lust for "strange ladies" did to David and Solomon.

1Ki 11:3 And he had seven hundred wives, princesses, and three hundred concubines: and his wives turned away his heart.

Hi,

Actually, I believe Solomon was the only one who violated a regulation regarding polygyny, and as a result turned away from God.

 

[eddy]

A king of Israel
"After God's own heart"
At least 18 wives - Michal, Abigail, Ahinoam of Jezreel, Eglah, Maacah, Abital, Haggith, and Bathsheba, and "10 women/concubines"
"Wherefore David arose and went, he and his men, and slew of the Philistines two hundred men; and David brought their foreskins, and they gave them in full tale to the king, that he might be the king's son in law. And Saul gave him Michal his daughter to wife." 1 Samuel 18:27. (See also 1 Samuel 19:11-18; 25:44; and 2 Samuel 3:13-14; 6:20-23.)
"David sent and communed with Abigail, to take her to him to wife. 1 Samuel 25:39
"David also took Ahinoam of Jezreel; and they were also both of them his wives." 1 Samuel 25:43
"But Saul had given Michal his daughter, David's wife," 1 Samuel 25:44
"Absalom the son of Maacah the daughter of Talmai king of Geshur;" 2 Samuel 3:3
"And the fourth, Adonijah the son of Haggith; and the fifth, Shephatiah the son of Abital; And the sixth, Ithream, by Eglah David's wife. These were born to David in Hebron." 2 Samuel 3:4-5
"And David took him more concubines and wives" 2 Samuel 5:13, 1 Chronicles 14:3
"And Nathan said to David, Thou art the man. Thus saith the LORD God of Israel, I anointed thee king over Israel, and I delivered thee out of the hand of Saul; And I gave thee thy master's house, and thy master's wives into thy bosom, and gave thee the house of Israel and of Judah; and if that had been too little, I would moreover have given unto thee such and such things." 2 Samuel 12:7-8
"And David comforted Bathsheba his wife..." 2 Samuel 12:24
"And the king went forth, and all his household after him. And the king left ten women, which were concubines, to keep the house." 2 Samuel 15:16. (See also 2 Samuel 16:21-23.)