Polygyny and the Bible

[eddy]

Scriptural truth is never trash!

I think that many simple seek only to find justification in what they already hold to be true. If you can't justify then ignore or deflect. This is just human nature. Questions such as why would a man want such a relationship or why should we even allow such a topic only go to show the weekness of their position biblically. If the scripture isn't direct or we don't like what it says directly then obviously we must look beyond what is explicitly written to find the "hidden truth".

I don't currently live in a plygamous relationship nor do I plan to, but I can plainly read what is written on the subject. We don't allow that anymore. God didn't make it wrong. Man has. Just as man has changed his opinion on many points of morality.

 

[stovebolts]

I understand we all hold this issue at a "rubber meets the road" core value.

Let's keep the discussion on track without trailing off.

adelphos,

I had made a post in reply to how you used the word bosom. Not sure if you missed that, but I'd like to hear your answer.

Thanks,

 

[handy]

I understand we all hold this issue at a "rubber meets the road" core value.

Let's keep the discussion on track without trailing off.

adelphos,

I had made a post in reply to how you used the word bosom. Not sure if you missed that, but I'd like to hear your answer.

Thanks,

I'd like to see it as well.

Also, Adelphos, I am not all that well versed in biblical Greek. I do know a little, mostly what I glean from Strong's...but not enough to articulate an answer to your hypothesis that 1 Corinthians 7:2 should be translated as ""Let every man have his wife as his own exclusive possession and let every woman have her own shared husband."

However, although I don't know that much biblical Greek...I know someone who does. I am blessed with a bit of a Greek scholar for a pastor. I've ran your quote passed him and am waiting to hear what he thinks and am currently doing a word study on the text.

However, to me the word "own" isn't the operative word...the word "wife" (singular) is. If polygyny was such a common thing, I would imagine that Paul should have said, "Let each man have his own wives, each woman her husband."

 

[adelphos]

I understand we all hold this issue at a "rubber meets the road" core value.

Let's keep the discussion on track without trailing off.

adelphos,

I had made a post in reply to how you used the word bosom. Not sure if you missed that, but I'd like to hear your answer.

Thanks,

StoveBolts,

Except for short replies, like this one, I am really honestly attempting to answer all the arguments on this topic one by one. Because of that, I am now only on page 8 of this thread. So, I will get to it. You brought up a good point so I will now need to go back and read each one in the Hebrew. Thanks...

Respectfully,

Adelphos

 

[Bonairos]

"I think that many simple seek only to find justification in what they already hold to be true. If you can't justify then ignore(?) or deflect(?). This is just human nature. Questions such as why would a man want such a relationship or why should we even allow such a topic only go to show the weekness of their position biblically. If the scripture isn't direct or we don't like what it says directly then obviously we must look beyond what is explicitly written to find the "hidden truth". (bold emphasis mine)

I beg to differ!

Such questions get to the "heart of the matter", which is, of course, the "matter of one's heart."


Be blessed, Stay blessed, and be Bold!

 

[Bonairos]

"The implication is that a person that believes in it, just wants another wife . . .

If not that, then what? To what purpose? What end?

Again, . . . the heart of the matter.



Be blessed, Stay blessed, and be Bold!

 

[eddy]

If not that, then what? To what purpose? What end?

Again, . . . the heart of the matter.



Be blessed, Stay blessed, and be Bold!

Children would be my first guess.

 

[adelphos]

If not that, then what? To what purpose? What end?

Again, . . . the heart of the matter.



Be blessed, Stay blessed, and be Bold!

Too funny. I will have to go back and read what I wrote again. Yes, a person may just want another wife, which would be perfectly acceptable, noble and loving.

Respectfully

Adelphos

 

[adelphos]

Children would be my first guess.

Some do want many children - monogamists and polygynists. I would venture to say that polygynists would be more "fruitful and multiplying" minded than those who are monogamous.

Respectfully

Adelphos

 

[Bonairos]

Children would be my first guess.

Would that imply that women (wives) are to be looked upon as birth machines? Thereby justifying having multiple wives? More children?


Be blessed, Stay blessed, and be Bold!

 

[Bonairos]

"Too funny. I will have to go back and read what I wrote again. Yes, a person may just want another wife, which would be perfectly acceptable, noble and loving." (bold emphasis mine)

Again, for what purpose would there be to have . . . " just another wife?"



Be blessed, Stay blessed, and be Bold!

 

[eddy]

Would that imply that women (wives) are to be looked upon as birth machines? Thereby justifying having multiple wives? More children?


Be blessed, Stay blessed, and be Bold!

It doesn't imply that to me. Women give birth. It is their role. Men lead. Women give birth and tend to the children and home. If a man wants to have many many children he needs multiple wives. These are the roles and rules God decided.

 

[Bonairos]

"If a man wants to have many many children he needs multiple wives." (emphasis mine)

Needs?

Ah! Perhaps we are getting to the heart of the matter! Even though there are numerous families today with one husband, one wife, many children.


Be blessed, Stay blessed, and be Bold!

 

[eddy]

Needs?

Ah! Perhaps we are getting to the heart of the matter! Even though there are numerous families today with one husband, one wife, many children.


Be blessed, Stay blessed, and be Bold!

If he wants more children than one wife can bear, or if his first wife is incapible.

 

[adelphos]

Show where God ever gave "confirming directives" on polygyny?

And when a man selleth his daughter for a handmaid, she doth not go out
according to the going out of the men-servants; if evil in the eyes of her lord,
so that he hath not betrothed her (it should be understood that marriage is the intent of selling one's daughter as a mainservant), then he hath let her be ransomed; to a strange people he hath not power to sell her, in his dealing treacherously with her. `And if to his son he betroth her, according to the right of daughters he doth to her. `If another woman he take for him (KJV: another wife), her food, her covering, and her habitation, he doth not withdraw;

Exodus 21:7-10 YLT

When a man hath two wives, the one loved and the other hated, and they have
borne to him sons (the loved one and the hated one), and the first-born son hath
been to the hated one; then it hath been, in the day of his causing his sons to
inherit that which he hath, he is not able to declare first-born the son of the
loved one, in the face of the son of the hated one--the first-born. But the
first-born, son of the hated one, he doth acknowledge, to give to him a double
portion of all that is found with him, for he is the beginning of his strength;
to him is the right of the first-born.

Deuteronomy 21:15-17 YLT

The next few passages seem on the surface like they don't apply, but read the comments afterwards.

When brethren dwell together, and one of them hath died, and hath no son,
the wife of the dead is not without to a strange man; her husband's brother doth
go in unto her, and hath taken her to him for a wife, and doth perform the duty
of her husband's brother (and all throughout Hebrew history, this was considered an obligation whether a man was married or not - one should notice that there are no exceptions!); and it hath been, the first-born which she beareth
doth rise for the name of his dead brother, and his name is not wiped away out
of Israel. `And if the man doth not delight to take his brother's wife, then
hath his brother's wife gone up to the gate, unto the elders, and said, My
husband's brother is refusing to raise up to his brother a name in Israel; he
hath not been willing to perform the duty of my husband's brother; and the
elders of his city have called for him, and spoken unto him, and he hath stood
and said, I have no desire to take her; `Then hath his brother's wife drawn nigh
unto him, before the eyes of the elders, and drawn his shoe from off his foot,
and spat in his face, and answered and said, Thus it is done to the man who doth
not build up the house of his brother; and his name hath been called in
Israel--The house of him whose shoe is drawn off.

Deuteronomy 25:5-10 YLT

And when a man doth entice a virgin who is not betrothed, and hath lain with
her, he doth certainly endow her to himself for a wife; if her father utterly
refuse to give her to him, money he doth weigh out according to the dowry of
virgins.

Exodus 22:16-17 YLT

When a man findeth a damsel, a virgin who is not betrothed, and hath caught
her, and lain with her, and they have been found, then hath the man who is lying
with her given to the father of the damsel fifty silverlings, and to him she is
for a wife; because that he hath humbled her, he is not able to send her away
all his days.

Deuteronomy 22:28-29 YLT

When thou goest out to battle against thine enemies, and Jehovah thy God
hath given them into thy hand, and thou hast taken captive its captivity, and
hast seen in the captivity a woman of fair form, and hast delighted in her, and
hast taken to thee for a wife, then thou hast brought her in unto the midst of
thy household, and she hath shaved her head, and prepared her nails, and turned
aside the raiment of her captivity from off her, and hath dwelt in thy house,
and bewailed her father and her mother a month of days, and afterwards thou dost go in unto her and hast married her, and she hath been to thee for a wife: `And it hath been--if thou hast not delighted in her, that thou hast sent her away at her desire, and thou dost not at all sell her for money; thou dost not tyrannize
over her, because that thou hast humbled her.

Deuteronomy 21:10-14 YLT

"If the wife was unfaithful to her husband and family, she paid with the death penalty (Leviticus 20:10). But when a husband was unfaithful to his wife with an unmarried. But when a husband was unfaithful to his wife with an unmarried girl the girl became a member of his family (Deuteronomy 22:13-30; compare v. 22 with vv 28 and 29....

“Marriage was allowed with more than one woman simultaneously.â€("The New Manners and Customs of Bible Times," pg. 63, by ralph Gower

Commenting on the same passages:

"The law applied whether or not the man was already married to one or more women. The account in Exodus seems to imply the rape of an unengaged woman. In either case, the woman in question became the wife of her male partner in the sex act." ("Marriage and Divorce: God's Call, God's Compassion," pg. 50, by M.G. McLuhan

"Jewish law recognized adultery as an offense which could be committed only by or with a married woman." (Mand and WOman in Biblical Perspective," by James B. Hurley

Summary from book "Man and Woman in Biblical Law, Resurrecting the Biblical Family, Part one," pp 49-50, by Tom Shiplely

1. Genesis 1-2 institutes patriarchy, and therefore polygamy, as part of God’s order.

2. Exodus 21:10 permits a man married to a concubine to take additional wives.3. Deuteronomy 21:15-17 commands a man married to two free women to be impartial in his treatment of his multiple wives and their sons in respect of the right of inheritance.

4. Exodus 22:16-17 mandates polygamy in a case of the seduction of an unbetrothed virgin5. Deuteronomy 22:28-29 mandates polygamy [FONT=TimesNewRoman,Italic][FONT=TimesNewRoman,Italic]in a case of the rape of an unbetrothed virgin
[/FONT]
[/FONT]6. Deuteronomy 21:10-14 permits an already married man (a soldier) to marry a captive foreign virgin.

7. And the Levirate law, Deuteronomy 25:5-10, mandates polygamy when the survinving brother of a childless widow is already married.

By pointing to regulartory laws? Doesn't the fact that Jesus pointed out a regulatory law about divorce show that the regulatory laws does not equal God's confirmation?

No! God forbid! Jesus said that He did not come to destroy the Law!

Respectfully

Adelphos

 

[adelphos]

Again, for what purpose would there be to have . . . " just another wife?"

Be blessed, Stay blessed, and be Bold!

Scripturally, one can center it on being fruitful and multiplying; love; desiring more sex (God forbid - Read 1 Cor. 7); enjoying larger families; caring for larger families; greater companship; taking care of the fatherless; etc... However, the main reason should be centered in God receiving Glory!

The fact of the matter is that just like monogamy, there are many reasons people get married. As long as Scripture is not violated, and love is the center piece, may God be glorified

 

[Bonairos]

If he wants more children than one wife can bear, or if his first wife is incapible.

So if she can't produce, find another to fulfill a Christian man's desires, his wants? To what end?

What could we say of such a "spiritual" man?

Worse yet. What happens when that Believer cannot produce something his wife wants, something she desires?

I suppose that would be telling of that marriage's foundation.


Be blessed, Stay blessed, and be Bold!

 

[felix]

It's a simple truth that polygamy is not a sin. It is also instituted by the law.

Can anyone in this forum justify based on scriptures that polygamy it is a sin?

Why would anyone say something that are not in scriptures, i.e, that polygamy is a sin?

If it is a sin, then let's not follow it. If it is not a sin, then, he who wants to follow it, let him follow it.

 

[Bonairos]

"The fact of the matter is that just like monogamy, there are many reasons people get married. As long as Scripture is not violated, and love is the center piece, may God be glorified."

Would that include the Spirit of the law also? Or just the written word (what we can quote and point to; chapter and verse)?


Be blessed, Stay blessed, and be Bold!

 

[felix]

So if she can't produce, find another to fulfill a Christian man's desires, his wants? To what end?

What could we say of such a "spiritual" man?

Worse yet. What happens when that Believer cannot produce something his wife wants, something she desires?

I suppose that would be telling of that marriage's foundation.


Be blessed, Stay blessed, and be Bold!

Can you please explain why a spiritual man should not have desires towards his wives?
It is neither lust nor adultery and not a sin.