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Polygyny and the Bible

so christ didnt die for us? he isnt the example for us to be the husband? its a serveant leader. we serve God, its a horrify yet honarable position. i am held responsble for my wifes spiritual health. i cant make her worship God but woe to me if fail to be the husband God calls.

with leadership comes responsibility not rulership. you missunderstand what leading is. i dont bark orders to my wife. i ask her yes, but i dont treat her like a private in the us.army where i have such powers to punish and command authority to dictate.
 
Men are commanded to be the head of the houshold. If you think otherwise I suggest you read the bible or start a thread where you disagree. The quote I provided is proof enough.

How is it proof enough? Genesis 3:16 implies a marriage relationship between woman and husband, not a general relationship "men and women."

Why are you using the Bible to make factual statements, but choosing not to provide the Scriptural support?

You made the statement, so the burden of proof is on you to now provide the evidence. It is essential to the heart of the matter in answering the question why men desire polygamy.
 
So if she can't produce, find another to fulfill a Christian man's desires, his wants? To what end?

If one desires to get married to one who cannot bear a child, is it allowed? Can it be for pure love? Can one love more than one woman?

What could we say of such a "spiritual" man?

What is a spiritual man? Can a spiritual man love more than one woman? Does loving more than one woman take away His love for Christ?

Worse yet. What happens when that Believer cannot produce something his wife wants, something she desires?

I am assuming you are talking about children, therefore, I will suggest that he continues to love her, nourish her, and care for her.

Respectfully

Adelphos
 
so christ didnt die for us? he isnt the example for us to be the husband? its a serveant leader. we serve God, its a horrify yet honarable position. i am held responsble for my wifes spiritual health. i cant make her worship God but woe to me if fail to be the husband God calls.

with leadership comes responsibility not rulership. you missunderstand what leading is. i dont bark orders to my wife. i ask her yes, but i dont treat her like a private in the us.army where i have such powers to punish and command authority to dictate.


I don't bark orders at my wife either. I provide financially, emotionaly, spritually. She must also know her obligations especially in front of the children lest they get the wrong impression. Wives are to respect their loving husbands. Only weak men tolerate disrespect. A man must have a firm hand at times.
 
Getting a second wife doesn't have anything to do with the first one getting old or boring.


So you've eliminated that. What then has it to do with? That God would sanction a Christian man to have mulitple wives?



If God wants me to have a second wife I will meet her how God plans and it will be his will.


Against your desire? Or in response to?



Be blessed, Stay blessed, and be Bold!
 
Getting a second wife doesn't have anything to do with the first one getting old or boring. If God wants me to have a second wife I will meet her how God plans and it will be his will.
so theres NO physical attraction and your corinthians twisted quote.

if a man cant contain let him marry tis better to marry than to burn. that implies a lust there that is so strong that he has to have that woman.

right,God would lead you to marry more then one wife. yet most of christians since the days of paul for the most part married one woman. in rome of pauls day women had rights not all that different from today.

woman could divorce see one corinthians, they could also hold office and vote in rome after pauls day.
Although the rights and status of women in the earliest period of Roman history were more restricted than in the late Republic and Empire, as early as the 5th century BC, Roman women could own land, write their own wills, and appear in court as their own advocates.[citation needed] The historian Valerius Maximus devotes a section of his work On Memorable Deeds and Speeches to women who conducted cases on their own behalf, or on behalf of others.[32] These women showed ability as orators in the courtroom, even though oratory was considered a defining pursuit of the most ambitious Roman men. One of these, Maesia Sentinas,[33] is identified by her origin in the town of Sentinum, and not, as was customary, by her relation to a man. The independent Maesia spoke in her own defense, and was acquitted almost unanimously after only a short trial because she spoke with such strength and effectiveness. Since these characteristics were considered masculine, however, the historian opined that under her feminine appearance, she had a "virile spirit," and thereafter she was called "the Androgyne

and on wikipedia women in acient rome

Divorce
Divorce was a legal but relatively informal affair which mainly involved a wife leaving her husband’s house and taking back her dowry. According to the historian Valerius Maximus, divorces were taking place by 604 BC or earlier, and the law code as embodied in the mid-5th century BC by the Twelve Tables provides for divorce. Divorce was socially acceptable if carried out within social norms (mos maiorum). By the time of Cicero and Julius Caesar, divorce was relatively common and "shame-free," the subject of gossip rather than a social disgrace.[54] Valerius says that Lucius Annius was disapproved of because he divorced his wife without consulting his friends; that is, he undertook the action for his own purposes and without considering its effects on his social network (amicitia and clientela). The censors of 307 BC thus expelled him from the Senate for moral turpitude.
Elsewhere, however, it is claimed that the first divorce took place only in 230 BC, at which time Dionysius of Halicarnassus notes[55] that "Spurius Carvilius, a man of distinction, was the first to divorce his wife" on grounds of infertility. This was most likely the Spurius Carvilius Maximus Ruga who was consul in 234 and 228 BC. The evidence is confused.[56]
During the classical period of Roman law (late Republic and Principate), a man or woman[57] could end a marriage simply because he or she wanted to, and for no other reason. Unless the wife could prove the husband was worthless, he kept the children. Because property had been kept separate during the marriage, divorce from a "free" marriage was a very easy procedure.[58]
[edit] Remarriage

The frequency of remarriage among the elite was high. Speedy remarriage was not unusual, and perhaps even customary, for aristocratic Romans after the death of a spouse.[59] While no formal waiting period was dictated for a widower, it was customary for a woman to remain in mourning for ten months before remarrying.[60] The duration may allow for pregnancy: if a woman had become pregnant just before her husband's death, the period of ten months ensures that no question of paternity, which might affect the child's social status and inheritance, would attach to the birth.[61] No law prohibited pregnant women from marrying, and there are well-known instances: Augustus married Livia when she was carrying her former husband's child, and the College of Pontiffs ruled that it was permissible as long as the child's father was determined first. Livia's previous husband even attended the wedding.[62]
Because elite marriages often occurred for reasons of politics or property, a widow or divorcée with assets in these areas faced few obstacles to remarrying. She was far more likely to be legally emancipated than a first-time bride, and to have a say in the choice of husband. The marriages of Fulvia, who commanded troops during the last civil war of the Republic and who was the first Roman woman to have her face on a coin, are thought to indicate her own political sympathies and ambitions: she was married first to the popularist champion Clodius Pulcher, who was murdered in the street after a long feud with Cicero; then to Scribonius Curio, a figure of less ideological certitude who at the time of his death had come over to Julius Caesar; and finally to Mark Antony, the last opponent to the republican oligarchs and to Rome's future first emperor.
The Greek observer Plutarch indicates that a second wedding among Romans was likely to be a quieter affair, as a widow would still feel the absence of her dead husband, and a divorcée ought to feel shame.[63] But while the circumstances of divorce might be shameful or embarrassing, and remaining married to the same person for life was ideal, there was no general disapproval of remarriage; on the contrary, marriage was considered the right and desirable condition of adult life for both men and women.[64] Cato the Younger, who presented himself as a paragon modeled after his moral namesake, allowed his pregnant wife Marcia to divorce him and marry Hortensius, declining to offer his young daughter to the 60-year-old orator instead. After the widowed Marcia inherited considerable wealth, Cato married her again, in a ceremony lacking many of the formalities.[65] Women might be mocked, however, for marrying too often or capriciously, particularly if it could be implied that sexual appetites and vanity were motives.[66
 
so theres NO physical attraction and your corinthians twisted quote.

if a man cant contain let him marry tis better to marry than to burn. that implies a lust there that is so strong that he has to have that woman.

right,God would lead you to marry more then one wife. yet most of christians since the days of paul for the most part married one woman. in rome of pauls day women had rights not all that different from today.

woman could divorce see one corinthians, they could also hold office and vote in rome after pauls day.

and on wikipedia women in acient rome

Quoting mens worldly laws is not very convincing even if they are from a morally bankrupt fallen empire like Rome, and you are right we do have a lot in common with them.
 
Only weak men tolerate disrespect.

Are you calling Christ weak? Is it weak to turn the other cheek? Should one only turn the other check if a man is disrespectful, but not if a woman is disrespectful?

eddy said:
A man must have a firm hand at times.

Wow.

National Domestic Violence Hotline: 1−800−799−SAFE
 
I don't bark orders at my wife either. I provide financially, emotionaly, spritually. She must also know her obligations especially in front of the children lest they get the wrong impression. Wives are to respect their loving husbands. Only weak men tolerate disrespect. A man must have a firm hand at times.


Does this "knowing" include she could (by God's design) be replaced and/or share you with another woman (wife) at anytime?

Weak men (in your opinion) may tolerate disrespect, but strong men (by the grace of God) stand in the gap for their families in prayer; and that especially so for their helpmate, their gift from God (and that's to say nothing of looking within as to why such disrespect is there in the first place).


Be blessed, Stay blessed, and be Bold!
 
How is it proof enough? Genesis 3:16 implies a marriage relationship between woman and husband, not a general relationship "men and women."

Why are you using the Bible to make factual statements, but choosing not to provide the Scriptural support?

You made the statement, so the burden of proof is on you to now provide the evidence. It is essential to the heart of the matter in answering the question why men desire polygamy.


This isn't a thread about science there is no burden of proof. The bible is clear that the husband is the head of the household. I understand many don't believe this anymore.
 
This isn't a thread about science there is no burden of proof.

Why do you keep evading the issue? Do you think so little of God's Name that you speak for Him, but refuse to allow anyone to test the spirit you are speaking from?

There is absolutely a need for burden of proof. I could very easily make the statement that: "women are to have 5 children and anymore than 5 means throwing the 6th child into a river to drown. This statement is factual based on the Bible."

Would you, or would you not, eddy, ask me to provide Biblical proof to support my factual statement?

eddy said:
The bible is clear that the husband is the head of the household.

The issue at hand is not about whether the husband is the head of the household.

Once again, I will bring you back to the subject at hand:

You made the statement that: "men are to lead women."

I am asking you to provide the Scriptures that affirm your declarative statement.
 
Are you calling Christ weak? Is it weak to turn the other cheek? Should one only turn the other check if a man is disrespectful, but not if a woman is disrespectful?



Wow.

National Domestic Violence Hotline: 1−800−799−SAFE


Our modern culture teaches men to be weak and feminine. I don't don't live like that or emulate it. I don't beat my wife I just live like a man should. I don't judge others and how they want to live. If someone wants to be gay let them. If someone wants to be a sissy let them, but don't judge a man for being a real man either.
 
If one desires to get married to one who cannot bear a child, is it allowed? Can it be for pure love? Can one love more than one woman?



What is a spiritual man? Can a spiritual man love more than one woman? Does loving more than one woman take away His love for Christ?


Sorry I missed this one earlier.

YES! A man, even a spiritual man can love more than one woman (I do).

BUT! There is a huge difference between a woman and a woman who is the wife!



Be blessed, Stay blessed, and be Bold!
 
". . . but don't judge a man for being a real man either."

Please enlighten me on your definition of a "real" Christian man, especially as it pertains to marriage and being a husband having a wife.


Be blessed, Stay blessed, and be Bold!
 
Our modern culture teaches men to be weak and feminine. I don't don't live like that or emulate it. I don't beat my wife I just live like a man should. I don't judge others and how they want to live. If someone wants to be gay let them. If someone wants to be a sissy let them, but don't judge a man for being a real man either.

What is a 'real man'?

What in your eyes is 'weak'?

What in your eyes is 'feminine'?

What does it mean to be a 'sissy'?

I'm very interested in hearing your definitions on the matter. May I ask what part of the country you are from (if you are from America that is)?
 
Originally Posted by Free
From beginning to end God's plan is for marriage is one
man, one woman. That he let some in their sinfulness have more was just
something he let happen. Not once does the Bible explicitly or implicitly
approve of polygamy.




Adelphos: This is terrible theology on many levels. Are you sure you want to teach this as Scripture truth!?




Handy: And how is this "terrible theology"? The Old Testament is filled with examples of people doing things that are sinful. This doesn't mean that God sanctions or condones them. To see what God sanctions or condones, we must look at what God actually says. And, God has said, in both the Old and New, that His plan for marriage is one man, one woman.

It accuses God of not disciplining His people contrary to clear Scriptures. You see, if polygyny is sin, the only sin it can be is adultery. If God does not deal with the sin of adultery in all those polygynists recorded in the Bible, then He owes David an apology for dealing with his adultery. Moreover, His justice is to be questioned. Why? Because God did not discipline David for marrying all the other wives. You see, one cannot have it both ways. God tells us He disciplines His sons for their sin - He doesn't overlook it! As Tom Shipley declares: "Adultery is not a peccadillo in God’s eyes. It is a “great†and heinous sin. It is a form of wickedness for which the Bible commands the death penalty. Adultery, especially continual unrepented of
adultery, cannot be simply overlooked or ignored." (Man and Woman in Biblical Law," pg 59)

It might be sounding as if I'm coming from left field here, but would one say that God is OK with women sleeping having sex with their father-in-laws?

I think believers should continually ask questions to discover more of God's truth.

I think that would be a "no". Yet, God didn't condemn Tamar for having sex with Judah. However, just because God didn't condemn Tamar it would be bad theology to teach that God then condones or sanctions sex between a man and his son's wife.

At first it seems you may be right, but I think it may have more to do with Tamar using extreme methods to ensure that she is receiving all her Levirite rights. I will need to study further.

Respectfully

Adelphos
 
What is a 'real man'?

What in your eyes is 'weak'?

What in your eyes is 'feminine'?

What does it mean to be a 'sissy'?

I'm very interested in hearing your definitions on the matter. May I ask what part of the country you are from (if you are from America that is)?


That reminded my of why God might call a strong man to take a second wife. So many men these days have "discovered" they are gay and left their wives. There is a shortage of strait men.

I agree with some things of feminism, but sometimes its goals is to make men femenine. Many women yearn deeply for a strong man to guide them and protect them.

Men are commanded to be the head of the household. The head of the houshold leads the houshold that is self evident. Just as the President is the Head of state a husband is head of his house. That is true leadership.
 
weak minded and soft? really i have held back my views on leadership with you for the most part. meekness. what is that? strength under control.

insulting. i get called chauvinist by the real feminists in the word which i am but soft by a christian? :bigfrown so i guess my desire not to fight women in the ring is a soft thing. i get called sexist over that. i will train with them but not fight them in the ring. i respect them but i am called to protect them as there as the weaker sex. to be cherished.

its funny i asked God to show me this stuff as i was bi and needed him to show me and funny you call me effimate to wit i am not.
 
Would that include the Spirit of the law also? Or just the written word (what we can quote and point to; chapter and verse)?


Be blessed, Stay blessed, and be Bold!

Define your understanding of the "Spirit of the Law" so I can unpack your question please.

thanks

Adelphos
 
Thank you for educating me.

Yet I do not believe the message of the ten virgins was Christ instructing me on marriage and it's promotion of a Christian man having multiple wives.


Perhaps you could educate me further on the message of the parable.


Be blessed, Stay blessed, and be Bold!

It is true that the parable is not a promotion nor instructing a christian to have many wives. However, the parable itself shows the acceptance of polygamy from God.

The meaning of the parable:
The bridegroom is Christ (John 2:9) and the virgins are the Christians (2Cor 11:2). Lamp is the commandments of God (Prov 6:23). The light from the lamp are the good deeds of Christians (Matt 5:15-16). Oil makes the lamp glow (His commandments to follow) and give light (to do good deeds for His glory). Oil that makes His commandments to follow and do good deeds for His glory, is the anointing of the Holy Spirit or His Word in our hearts. So, every Christian must always have His anointing or His Word abiding in us always and must be like the seed fallen on good ground so that he is always ready to visit the Lord.

It's a bit off topic, but the point I am making is clear...

God wouldn't take an unacceptable and sinful practice to explain an acceptable spiritual mystery about His Kingdom.
 
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