Pope Francis consoles a boy who asked if his non-believing father is in Heaven

[godsquadgeek]

Yes, I realize that. I was addressing people who were wondering how an athiest father could have baptized children. In my case I have a father who is athiest, but a mother who is Roman Catholic.

that must have been hard. I had a father that was a non believer too. My mother started going to church after I did. WE all went to baptist church after the divorce when I was young. But the baptist church said that she could not divorce her husband for infidelity and had to get back together. So we never went back till I was in high school, about seven years later, after most of my childhood was over. But it must have been hard having an outright athiest, as a father, my father never said he was athiest, just didn't really go to church, he was an alcholic.

 

[Razeontherock]

Well yeah,
Telling the little boy in tears, "Your daddy is roasting in the fires of hell and Jesus is toasting marshmallows over his burning soul as we speak." Is probably not the nicest thing to say at the moment.

Another Catholic told me when I asked about this, "Yeah, we don't really like this Pope. He should have said, 'We don't know' "

How can anyone not love Pope Francis? I've certainly never said that about a Pope before. He gets so much right! (I've never said that about any Pope before him, either. Lol) Yet the RCC seems to want to run him out of town

 

[Razeontherock]

If Jesus took away the sin of the world. That means there is no more transgression against God. Even sin was in the world before the law, the scripture says Jesus took away the sin of the world.

John 1:29
1 John 2:2

Not quite what that means, though it would be nice. Look into the Mosaic sacrifice with a scapegoat ...

 

[Razeontherock]

If I said no one comes into my Parents house but by me, it just means I am the entry without me you don't get entry. Thats all it means.

I would be very hesitant to say that about ANY passage of Scripture! Jews held that there are 70 layers of meaning. 70 being a symbolic number. There also being 70 languages, from their perspective.

 

[Mike]

For God so loved the world, not, for God so loved a selected few.

"... that whoever believes in Him would not parish but have everlasting life."

How do you feel about this part of the verse you didn't reference?

 

[Corn Pop]

"... that whoever believes in Him would not parish but have everlasting life."

How do you feel about this part of the verse you didn't reference?

What is belief?. Even the devils believe, and as Paul said the Gospel has been preached to all creatures.

 

[jasonc]

I'm really glad you said that because you just made my job a whole lot easier. Yes it's true Jesus is the only way to Heaven, if He never paid the penalty for our sins than none of us could go. However, since the Bible speaks of only the wicked being casted into the lake of fire, I have always had a really hard time believing that only Christians make it to Heaven. Sure their salvation is more secured, but it just has never made sense to me since there are a lot of religions and beliefs in this world, and plenty of nice and caring people who aren't Christians. And cue the complaints and arguing lol I'm just going to sit back and watch with my big old tub of popcorn.

There's is no none righteous, yet you said basically if you are caring you can make it.

Plenty of criminals can also be caring.

 

[Mike]

What is belief?. Even the devils believe, and as Paul said the Gospel has been preached to all creatures.

I feel like you and I see different implications in the words "believe in Him". I would say it implies that whoever places their hope in Him and depends upon Him.

Even if taken the way it sounds like you do, atheists don't believe He exists. Do you hold that they are covered by the first part of the verse you quoted?

 

[Corn Pop]

I feel like you and I see different implications in the words "believe in Him". I would say it implies that whoever places their hope in Him and depends upon Him.

In that generation Yes.

Millions of people have never heard of Jesus. He come to a generation for a generation and fullfilled all things.

 

[stovebolts]

Years ago when we had an abundance of Universalists on the board, I got to know one of them fairly well. He had only been married a short time when he lost his wife. He grew up in a Christian home but went wayward and married a woman who didn't know much about Christ.
His faith was stirring and he began talking to her about God, and before she "accepted Christ", she died a tragic death.
At that time, I felt it was my duty to tell him, "I'm sorry, but your wife will spend eternity in hell". We went back and forth for weeks and it was apparent he was in grave anguish. He was grieving the loss of his wife, and I was pouring salt in the wound by telling him, "sorry, if she didn't know Jesus, she is burning in Hell for eternity."

Yeah, that was me saying that. It was wrong. It was insensative, cruel and mean. A few years later I lost my brother, and I realized just how wrong I was. A few years after that, I lost my daughter. Ok God, I get it...

The words," if you understood the words, I desire mercy, not sacrafice ", ..all of a sudden have a slightly different meaning to me.

When we see somebody suffering, we dont add to their suffering. We comfort them. We dont get into theological or docternal debates. I learned that the hard way...

 

[jasonc]

I have lost my Jewish uncle,grandparents.
I.miss them but of they are lost abd I don't know of they were I habe no anger at God about that

 

[Garion]

Maybe he didn't sidestep the question maybe he really believes what he said.

If that was a translation of what was said then it sounds correct.

 

[godsquadgeek]

Years ago when we had an abundance of Universalists on the board, I got to know one of them fairly well. He had only been married a short time when he lost his wife. He grew up in a Christian home but went wayward and married a woman who didn't know much about Christ.
His faith was stirring and he began talking to her about God, and before she "accepted Christ", she died a tragic death.
At that time, I felt it was my duty to tell him, "I'm sorry, but your wife will spend eternity in hell". We went back and forth for weeks and it was apparent he was in grave anguish. He was grieving the loss of his wife, and I was pouring salt in the wound by telling him, "sorry, if she didn't know Jesus, she is burning in Hell for eternity."

Yeah, that was me saying that. It was wrong. It was insensative, cruel and mean. A few years later I lost my brother, and I realized just how wrong I was. A few years after that, I lost my daughter. Ok God, I get it...

The words," if you understood the words, I desire mercy, not sacrafice ", ..all of a sudden have a slightly different meaning to me.

When we see somebody suffering, we dont add to their suffering. We comfort them. We dont get into theological or docternal debates. I learned that the hard way...

yeah, you focus on the good. But you also don't want false assurance, just to appease men. It's one of the hardest things a pastor ever has to do, is run a funeral service for someone who is not saved. (and sorry for your loss)

 

[stovebolts]

yeah, you focus on the good. But you also don't want false assurance, just to appease men. It's one of the hardest things a pastor ever has to do, is run a funeral service for someone who is not saved. (and sorry for your loss)

My brother was a heathen, died with a needle in his arm and was a very successful Heroin dealer to support his oxycontin addiction. He posted a picture of himself with wild eyes in stocks and captured it, "pure evil". A week before he died he told Mom, "I'm either going to die, or end up in prison".

Since I'm the religious one in the family, I was a big part of the funeral services. The best I could do was pray for the God of mercy to have mercy on him. I knew him as a brother, and I knew his circumstance and his trials and troubles. If I knew that, how much more does God know?

When the day comes. Jesus will wipe away every year and all things will be known. This life has enough troubles of it's own, so be happy and seek out the good things this life has to offer. Encourage, build up and console those who suffer. God will deal with the rest.

 

[godsquadgeek]

My brother was a heathen, died with a needle in his arm and was a very successful Heroin dealer to support his oxycontin addiction. He posted a picture of himself with wild eyes in stocks and captured it, "pure evil". A week before he died he told Mom, "I'm either going to die, or end up in prison".

Since I'm the religious one in the family, I was a big part of the funeral services. The best I could do was pray for the God of mercy to have mercy on him. I knew him as a brother, and I knew his circumstance and his trials and troubles. If I knew that, how much more does God know?

When the day comes. Jesus will wipe away every year and all things will be known. This life has enough troubles of it's own, so be happy and seek out the good things this life has to offer. Encourage, build up and console those who suffer. God will deal with the rest.

Well when it comes to the death of a loved one , yes we encourage. But so often we take that same attitude when communicating our faith to others. There is a hell and most are going there. Narrow is the way the Bible says. "Few" will find the way. It is rare to be saved in this world, is what Jesus was saying. Do not fear he who can destroy the body the Bible says, but fear Him who can destroy both the body and soul in hell.

 

[stovebolts]

Well when it comes to the death of a loved one , yes we encourage. But so often we take that same attitude when communicating our faith to others. There is a hell and most are going there. Narrow is the way the Bible says. "Few" will find the way. It is rare to be saved in this world, is what Jesus was saying. Do not fear he who can destroy the body the Bible says, but fear Him who can destroy both the body and soul in hell.

I understand what you are saying. We really need to discern both what to say, and when to say it.

When I read Mathew 10 which you quote, I see Jesus speaking to his deciples as he prepares them to go out. He is not speaking to a grieving family member who recently lost a loved one.

Fear has its place for it is the beginning of the knowledge of God. But we know perfect love drives out fear. So I see a balance, perhaps even a transformation occurring here.

 

[stovebolts]

John 14:21 NIV

Yet this atheist had his children baptized and his children apparently knew enough about God that this boy sat with the Pope.

The great commission is to baptize and make deciples. They learned about God from an atheist who had them baptized. This bewilders me.

 

[JohnDB]

Yet this atheist had his children baptized and his children apparently knew enough about God that this boy sat with the Pope.

The great commission is to baptize and make deciples. They learned about God from an atheist who had them baptized. This bewilders me.

That's why I'm saying that this guy might not really be an atheist. He just might be someone that they claim is an atheist that actually is a believer but outside the Catholic Church.
When I was in Slovakia one of the hosting families' husband claims to be an atheist but will engage in Bible studies in their home and is quick to put down false theology in a heartbeat....he also was very helpful to us in our mission.
Strange actions for an atheist.
All his children will eventually be baptized. The youngest needing to take a particular class for a year before he will be allowed to be baptized. (They have strict requirements). A better label for him might be a Deist like the Colonial days. Not taking a side in denominations but still a believer.

Things aren't always what they seem.

 

[stovebolts]

JohnDB
I'm a bit slow, but now I see what your saying. Thanks!

 

[Selah]

I believe being baptised in water is being baptised into Jesus death and buried with Christ in the Law, then people have to be raised from that death thats why they still waiting for there saviour.

Are you saying that because water submersion baptism is in practice now that is the reason for the savior's delay in returning?