Bible Study Practically speaking, what does this passage mean to you?

[Hospes]

Eph 2:8-9 - "For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast."

Please don't just quote other passages. What does this passage mean to you in your own words?

Thank you.

It means when I stand before my God, I will be utterly without merit for the grace He has lavished on me through the Gospel of Jesus Christ. My only appeal for His mercy will be the work of my Lord on my behalf. On my own, I got nothing to offer.

 

[for_his_glory]

Amazing grace is that of God's pure love that made a way through His Son Christ Jesus that we can be redeemed from our sin being washed in the blood of Christ as we are made righteous before God by His righteousness given through His unmerited favor. It's a free gift from God as no one can work towards their salvation.

Having faith in Christ is an action word that our part is to now continue in the good works of the Lord as per Matthew 25:35-45. I would also recommend reading Colossians Chapter 3 as this will also help teach about keeping ourselves pure before the Lord as we remain pleasing unto Him.

 

[for_his_glory]

Now, if you haven't reached the age of accountability, you don't even have to hear the word to be saved according to a majority of theologians.

We have to be careful when we say according to a majority rule as the living word of God is not a majority rule word, but that of what God has already spoken. We seek truth through God's Holy Spirit, not man, that teaches us all truths.

 

[humble soul]

"For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast

What!! You mean I can't boast about all my good works?
Like the time I helped a little old lady across the road? Or the time my arm was was twisted to donate to a charity and I finally gave 1 dollar?
Or the time I loved someone who was really hard to love? I mean no one else liked their jokes but I dug deep and found my funny bone.
I tell you what. If Heaven is based on a merit system, I'm sure to be at the front of the queue!

 

[Fastfredy0]

We have to be careful when we say according to a majority rule as the living word of God is not a majority rule word, but that of what God has already spoken. We seek truth through God's Holy Spirit, not man, that teaches us all truths.

Agreed. If the majority is correct, then we all should convert to Roman Catholicism. (1.2 billion R.Cs to 0.9 billion protestants). Hmmmm ... 1.8 billion Muslim's ... Hmmm...

 

[Hopeful]

No, both are not correct.

Grace was freely given by God.
But it is not free from conditions placed by God for its reception.

The conditions are in the second half of your response.
1. Hear
2. Believe
3. Repent of sins
4. Confess the name of Jesus
5. Baptized in Jesus name

And you are correct that we must endure to the end.

I think you are kinda' splitting hairs here...
It is a free gift, and it is free to be received.
If one doesn't hear, believe, repent, confess, or get baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sins, they have rejected the gift in the first place.
Those "conditions" are gifts too.

 

[Doug Brents]

I think you are kinda' splitting hairs here...
It is a free gift, and it is free to be received.
If one doesn't hear, believe, repent, confess, or get baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sins, they have rejected the gift in the first place.
Those "conditions" are gifts too.

Are you saying that God gives us repentance?
And God gives us confession? He does these things for us?

If that were true, then according to John 3:16, no one would be lost, because God does not want any to die, but for all to come to repentance. So if He wants everyone to be saved, and He gives the things that are required for salvation, then there would be absolutely no one who ends up lost. But Jesus says that the majority will be lost, and only the few will be saved.

So no, repentance, confession, belief, and baptism are not gifts too.
The fact that there exists a way to be saved at all, is a gift. But the fulfillment of the conditions God placed on the reception of that gift remains for each individual to fulfill.

 

[Hopeful]

Are you saying that God gives us repentance?

Yes, as it is written in Acts 11:18.

And God gives us confession? He does these things for us?

Confession of past sins is made available to us by God, so "yes" is the answer to your question.

If that were true, then according to John 3:16, no one would be lost, because God does not want any to die, but for all to come to repentance. So if He wants everyone to be saved, and He gives the things that are required for salvation, then there would be absolutely no one who ends up lost. But Jesus says that the majority will be lost, and only the few will be saved.

Those necessary things are given to us indeed, but they are not forced upon us.
We use them of our own volition.

So no, repentance, confession, belief, and baptism are not gifts too.
The fact that there exists a way to be saved at all, is a gift. But the fulfillment of the conditions God placed on the reception of that gift remains for each individual to fulfill.

Even a birthday gift must be received and opened to be of any use.
Conditions don't negate the gift giver's intent or love.

 

[Fastfredy0]

Are you saying that God gives us repentance?

As it is written: Acts 5:31; Romans 2:4; 2 Timothy 2:25; and Acts 11:18 as Hospes mentioned
Aside: the cause of faith in man is also God. Philippians 1:29; Ephesians 2:8-9, John 1:12-13, Hebrews 12:2, John 6:29, etc., etc.

And God gives us confession? He does these things for us?

Yes and No ... confession of sin is a synergistic operation between man and God. John 16:13; Romans 5:5; Romans 8:13, etc. etc.

If that were true, then according to John 3:16, no one would be lost, because God does not want any to die, but for all to come to repentance. So if He wants everyone to be saved, and He gives the things that are required for salvation, then there would be absolutely no one who ends up lost. But Jesus says that the majority will be lost, and only the few will be saved.

Re: "God wants all to come to repentance".
True enough, but this is NOT God sovereign will; rather, what theologians call His "perceptive" will.
See https://www.gotquestions.org/Gods-will.html for further explanation.

The fact that there exists a way to be saved at all, is a gift. But the fulfillment of the conditions God placed on the reception of that gift remains for each individual to fulfill.

Performing conditions for salvation is salvation by works which is cause to boast. "No one seeks God", 1 Corinthians 4:7; Job 35:7-8

 

[sushilp3585]

To me, the verse means that God gave you a gift to be close to him through Jesus Christ. That no one has the privilege to be close to him and call him father except us. That we do not have to do any work to be saved. All we need to do is believe that Jesus Christ died for our sins. And by work, I mean try to overcome our bad deeds with good deeds like the Muslims believe (or so i hear). We are to be at rest because God has finished his work which is our sabbath day (everyday, not just Saturday). This is what I take away from that verse.

 

[Doug Brents]

Yes, as it is written in Acts 11:18.

Confession of past sins is made available to us by God, so "yes" is the answer to your question.

Those necessary things are given to us indeed, but they are not forced upon us.
We use them of our own volition.

Even a birthday gift must be received and opened to be of any use.
Conditions don't negate the gift giver's intent or love.

LOL, Acts 11:18 does not in any way say that God does the repenting for us. It means that God made repentance lead to salvation for the Gentiles just as He made it for the Jews.

The confession is NOT the confession of past (or even future) sins, but the confession of the Name of Jesus.

Yes, and even a birthday gift is of no value to the recipient if they don't receive and open it. Just so, salvation is of no value to an individual if he does not receive it. And the way it is received is spelled out in Scriptures like:
Matt 10:32, Acts 3:19, 2 Pet 3:9, Mark 16:16, and Acts 2:38.

And as has been established elsewhere, all passages of Scripture that deal with the same topic must be combined together, not taken individually, when considering our end doctrine. Thus, all of these passages must be considered together when establishing our doctrine on salvation.

 

[for_his_glory]

Yes, as it is written in Acts 11:18.

Confession of past sins is made available to us by God, so "yes" is the answer to your question.

Those necessary things are given to us indeed, but they are not forced upon us.
We use them of our own volition.

Even a birthday gift must be received and opened to be of any use.
Conditions don't negate the gift giver's intent or love.

Act 11:18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.

This verse simply means that God has made a way through the blood of Christ, by His free gift of grace, that we can boldly come before His throne of grace and repent of our sins and be forgiven. God does not do the repenting for us as we have to confess our sins before Him and ask for forgiveness.

 

[Doug Brents]

As it is written: Acts 5:31; Romans 2:4; 2 Timothy 2:25; and Acts 11:18 as Hospes mentioned
Aside: the cause of faith in man is also God. Philippians 1:29; Ephesians 2:8-9, John 1:12-13, Hebrews 12:2, John 6:29, etc., etc.

Yes and No ... confession of sin is a synergistic operation between man and God. John 16:13; Romans 5:5; Romans 8:13, etc. etc.


Re: "God wants all to come to repentance".
True enough, but this is NOT God sovereign will; rather, what theologians call His "perceptive" will.
See https://www.gotquestions.org/Gods-will.html for further explanation.


Performing conditions for salvation is salvation by works which is cause to boast. "No one seeks God", 1 Corinthians 4:7; Job 35:7-8

The cause of salvation is God, but the duty to receive it is on man.
The gift of God with regard to repentance is that it has value, not that God repents for us. Rom 2:4 says that "the goodness of God leads you to repentance", not that God repents for us. If Jesus had not died, then repentance (turning from sin to follow God) would be meaningless. But because Jesus died and paid the price for our sin, our turning from sin to follow God's will has value.

The cause of faith is hearing God's Word (Rom 10:17). Faith is actually obeying what was heard (Heb 11:1, James 2:14, 26).

Confession of sin is not the subject of Rom 10:9-10. Confession of the name of Jesus is. Confession of sin is not a condition of salvation. Repentance from sin is, and confession of Jesus' name is, but confession of sin is not.

God is sovereign in His perceptive will. God revealed in John 3:16 that He "loved the [whole] world" and becaues of that love, "whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life." And he revealed in 1 Pet 3 that He is "not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance". (sorry for the improper reference in the previous comment) So then, God has revealed His will (He doesn't want anyone to be lost), but He has also set a condition upon our reception of His blessing (believe (John 3:16 and many others), repent (Acts 3:19 and others), confess the name of Jesus (Rom 10:9-10 and others), be baptized (Mark 16:16, Acts 2:38 and others)).

 

[Doug Brents]

Performing conditions for salvation is salvation by works which is cause to boast. "No one seeks God", 1 Corinthians 4:7; Job 35:7-8

This is exactly my point with this thread. That is not the meaning of Eph 2:9. That verse cannot possibly mean that there is no physical action necessary for man to take hold of salvation, because there are multiple passages that command physical actions and say that they lead to salvation.

Rom 10:9-10
Mark 16:16
Acts 2:38,
Acts 3:19
Acts 22:16
and many others.

 

[Fastfredy0]

The gift of God with regard to repentance is that it has value, not that God repents for us.

agreed

Rom 2:4 says that "the goodness of God leads you to repentance", not that God repents for us.

Agreed, God doesn't repent for us.... rather, God changes our heart via regeneration, the effect being repentance + faith = conversion

The cause of faith is hearing God's Word (Rom 10:17).

This is not the cause or everyone that heard of that Christ died and rose again would be saved; rather, it is a necessary precursor.

Confession of sin is not the subject of Rom 10:9-10. Confession of the name of Jesus is.

Don't know what this means. No further comment as I don't want to go to far away on a tangent (not that I don't have a response)

John 3:16 that He "loved the [whole] world" and becaues of that love, "whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life."

Agreed, whoever believes is saved. But the verse does not tell us the cause of this belief. You believe (IMO) that the individual is the cause of his faith and I believe God is the cause of one to have faith via regeneration. The verse does not tell us the CAUSE of faith.

He is "not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance".

Agreed. This is God's perceptive will. Similarly, God would have all men not sin.

but He has also set a condition upon our reception of His blessing

Agreed. You believe it is a list of things one must do (IMO) and I believe the condition is God's selecting before the foundation of the earth (before we existed)

That verse cannot possibly mean that there is no physical action necessary for man to take hold of salvation, because there are multiple passages that command physical actions and say that they lead to salvation.

I know the logic behind your reasoning (at least I think I do). Your perspective is (IMO) ... we have to perform X, Y and Z from a will independent from God's (save knowing God's instructions for salvation). What you call the cause of salvation, I called the effect. I say cause is 'regeneration' and the effect is X, Y and Z. You say (IMO), we do X, Y and Z and this will cause us to be regenerated .... and probably you say (IMO) we have to continue doing X, Y and Z or we lose our salvation; whereas I say God sees to it that we do X, Y and Z till be die via indwelling Spirit, X, Y and Z.

Aside: References to "repent" to be saved
The stated purpose of the Gospel of John is to bring men to faith in Christ (John 20:31), yet John never once uses the word repent, not once.

Thanks for your thoughts and respectful correspondence on the matter.

 

[Hopeful]

LOL, Acts 11:18 does not in any way say that God does the repenting for us. It means that God made repentance lead to salvation for the Gentiles just as He made it for the Jews

I agree completely.

The confession is NOT the confession of past (or even future) sins, but the confession of the Name of Jesus.

I guess that depends on the context of which ever verses you use to make that case.
Matt 3:5 and Mark 1:5 both say "confessing their sins.
Rom 10:10 is best suited to your context.

Yes, and even a birthday gift is of no value to the recipient if they don't receive and open it. Just so, salvation is of no value to an individual if he does not receive it. And the way it is received is spelled out in Scriptures like:
Matt 10:32, Acts 3:19, 2 Pet 3:9, Mark 16:16, and Acts 2:38.

And as has been established elsewhere, all passages of Scripture that deal with the same topic must be combined together, not taken individually, when considering our end doctrine. Thus, all of these passages must be considered together when establishing our doctrine on salvation.

Yes indeed.
Some of the verses of the OT don't apply to the NT.
And visa-versa.
Some of the verses of a chapters don't apply to other verses of the same chapter.
Thank God for the gift of the Holy Ghost...eh?

 

[Hopeful]

Act 11:18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.

This verse simply means that God has made a way through the blood of Christ, by His free gift of grace, that we can boldly come before His throne of grace and repent of our sins and be forgiven. God does not do the repenting for us as we have to confess our sins before Him and ask for forgiveness.

I feel you have taken the subject at hand and gone a bit afield here.
I disagree with none of it, but you have applied multiple "lanes" for our consideration.

 

[for_his_glory]

1 John 1:5 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.
1 John 1:6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:
1 John 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
1 John 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
1 John 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
1 John 1:10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

 

[for_his_glory]

I feel you have taken the subject at hand and gone a bit afield here.
I disagree with none of it, but you have applied multiple "lanes" for our consideration.

I believe it is important to use scripture so others can go study them for themselves as they seek truth.

 

[Link1983]

Eph 2:8-9 - "For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast."

Please don't just quote other passages. What does this passage mean to you in your own words?

Thank you.

Is it even possible to add anything to this?
Clear speech here from Paul.

Saved through faith because God is a faith God.
Not by works because our own works are selfish and not faithful to God.
Without faith it is impossible to please God.
Our own words should be the same as God says in His words!

Blessed be..