Mungo
Member
Praying to Mary,
This thread is about praying to Mary, the mother of Jesus, a practice of Catholics, Orthdox, Anglican/Episcopalians and perhaps some other Christians.
But before I start on the scriptural support for this practice I think it is necessary to understand what we mean by “pray” In this context.
Two statements:
Catholics do pray to Mary
Catholics don’t pray to Mary
Contradictory as it may seem, these two statements are both true.
The difference is resolved by understanding the different uses of the word “pray”.
Consider the etymology of the word:
c.1290, "ask earnestly, beg," also "pray to a god or saint," from O.Fr. preier (c.900), from L. precari "ask earnestly, beg," from *prex (plural preces, gen. precis) "prayer, request, entreaty," from PIE base *prek- "to ask, request, entreat" (cf. Skt. prasna-, Avestan frashna- "question;" O.C.S. prositi, Lith. prasyti "to ask, beg;" O.H.G. frahen, Ger. fragen, O.E. fricgan "to ask" a question). Prayer (c.1300) is from O.Fr. preiere, from V.L. *precaria, noun use of L. precaria, fem. of adj. precarius "obtained by prayer," from precari.(from the Online Etymology Dictionary)
So pray means, at its root, ask earnestly, entreat, beg, request.
If you read old English plays you will find phrases such as “prithee sir” (pray you sir) or “where are you going I pray”.
Take these extracts from that great English writer, Jane Austen
“But pray, Colonel, how came you to conjure out that I should be in town today?” (Mrs Jennings to Colonel Brandon in Sense and Sensibility)
"Oh! cousin, stop a moment, pray stop!" (Fanny Price to Edmund in Mansfield Park)
Scripture itself uses the word pray in this manner:
Notwithstanding, that I be not further tedious unto thee, I pray thee that thou wouldest hear us of thy clemency a few words. (Acts 24:4 - KJV)
Wherefore I pray you to take some meat: for this is for your health (Acts 27:34 - KJV)
The Greek word translated pray here is parakaleo. According to a Greek dictionary this means:- ask, beg, implore, petition, pray, request, solicit, urge, woo
A different Greek word is used here:
I pray for them. I do not pray for the world but for the ones you have given me, because they are yours, (John 17:9).
The Greek word we translate as pray comes from the Greek erotao which means: ask, query, question.
This is the same word that Jesus uses in his parable of Lazarus and the rich man (Lk 16:19-31). At one point the rich man (now in hell) says to Abraham "I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father’s house" (vs 27). Pray here is eroto.
And here is another one:
And the eunuch answered Philip, and said, I pray thee, of whom speaketh the prophet this? (Acts 8:34)
The Greek word here is deomai (G1189) meaning to beg, petition, beseech, make request
So to summarise so far, to use "pray" for "ask" is scriptural and it is in this sense that Catholics pray to Mary. They are asking her for her prayers for us.
Praying to God
Another word that is used in the NT is proseuchomai as when Jesus says: But when you pray, go to your inner room, close the door, and pray to your Father in secret (Mt 6:6).
It is this word proseuchomai that is generally used for addressing God.
Greek speaking Orthodox use proseuchomai for addressing God and parakaleo for addressing Mary & the Saints. We have only the one word, “pray”, and hence the misunderstandings that arise because most protestants, who do not pray to Mary, do not understand this distinction and assume that Catholics pray to Mary in the same way that they pray to God.
Spirit & Truth Fellowship International (not Catholic) say about proseuchomai & parakaleo:
The Greek verb proseuchomai (#4336 proseu,comai) and its noun form proseuche (#4335 proseuch,), like euchomai and euche, denote prayer in the more general sense. This means the content of the prayer may include various specific requests (aitema), supplications (deēsis), intercessions (enteuxis), etc. However proseuchomai and proseuche are only used as prayer to God (the prefix pros means towards)—whereas euchomai and deēsis are not restricted in this way (Trench, Synonyms). It generally “seems to indicate not so much the contents of the prayer as its end and aim” (Thayer).
The Greek verb parakaleō (#3870 parakale,w) and its noun form paraklēsis (#3874 para,klhsij) have a very wide range of meaning. Further, they appear quite often in scripture (109 verb uses; 29 noun uses). The words’ basic meaning is to call to one’s side. “To call some one hither, that he may do something…to use persuasion with him” (Bullinger). The calling along can be meant to appeal or plead; encourage or urge; to comfort; summon or invite; only once is it applied to God and that by the Lord Jesus (Matt 26:53).
Their text on this lists many words Greek words that are translated as “pray” – euchomai, proseuchomai, erotao, aiteo, deomai, parakaleo, entynchano with explanations and examples in the NT.
See https://www.stfonline.org/pdf/rev/appendix_10_commentary.pdf
I am told that the Perseus Project lists 97 Greek words for "pray".
To summarise:
Catholics use one meaning of “pray” when addressing Mary and a different meaning when addressing God.
So Catholics do pray to Mary in one sense of “pray” (parakaleo)
Catholics don’t pray to Mary in another sense of “pray” (proseuchomai)
Before I move on to the next part, are there any comments on this so far?
This thread is about praying to Mary, the mother of Jesus, a practice of Catholics, Orthdox, Anglican/Episcopalians and perhaps some other Christians.
But before I start on the scriptural support for this practice I think it is necessary to understand what we mean by “pray” In this context.
Two statements:
Catholics do pray to Mary
Catholics don’t pray to Mary
Contradictory as it may seem, these two statements are both true.
The difference is resolved by understanding the different uses of the word “pray”.
Consider the etymology of the word:
c.1290, "ask earnestly, beg," also "pray to a god or saint," from O.Fr. preier (c.900), from L. precari "ask earnestly, beg," from *prex (plural preces, gen. precis) "prayer, request, entreaty," from PIE base *prek- "to ask, request, entreat" (cf. Skt. prasna-, Avestan frashna- "question;" O.C.S. prositi, Lith. prasyti "to ask, beg;" O.H.G. frahen, Ger. fragen, O.E. fricgan "to ask" a question). Prayer (c.1300) is from O.Fr. preiere, from V.L. *precaria, noun use of L. precaria, fem. of adj. precarius "obtained by prayer," from precari.(from the Online Etymology Dictionary)
So pray means, at its root, ask earnestly, entreat, beg, request.
If you read old English plays you will find phrases such as “prithee sir” (pray you sir) or “where are you going I pray”.
Take these extracts from that great English writer, Jane Austen
“But pray, Colonel, how came you to conjure out that I should be in town today?” (Mrs Jennings to Colonel Brandon in Sense and Sensibility)
"Oh! cousin, stop a moment, pray stop!" (Fanny Price to Edmund in Mansfield Park)
Scripture itself uses the word pray in this manner:
Notwithstanding, that I be not further tedious unto thee, I pray thee that thou wouldest hear us of thy clemency a few words. (Acts 24:4 - KJV)
Wherefore I pray you to take some meat: for this is for your health (Acts 27:34 - KJV)
The Greek word translated pray here is parakaleo. According to a Greek dictionary this means:- ask, beg, implore, petition, pray, request, solicit, urge, woo
A different Greek word is used here:
I pray for them. I do not pray for the world but for the ones you have given me, because they are yours, (John 17:9).
The Greek word we translate as pray comes from the Greek erotao which means: ask, query, question.
This is the same word that Jesus uses in his parable of Lazarus and the rich man (Lk 16:19-31). At one point the rich man (now in hell) says to Abraham "I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father’s house" (vs 27). Pray here is eroto.
And here is another one:
And the eunuch answered Philip, and said, I pray thee, of whom speaketh the prophet this? (Acts 8:34)
The Greek word here is deomai (G1189) meaning to beg, petition, beseech, make request
So to summarise so far, to use "pray" for "ask" is scriptural and it is in this sense that Catholics pray to Mary. They are asking her for her prayers for us.
Praying to God
Another word that is used in the NT is proseuchomai as when Jesus says: But when you pray, go to your inner room, close the door, and pray to your Father in secret (Mt 6:6).
It is this word proseuchomai that is generally used for addressing God.
Greek speaking Orthodox use proseuchomai for addressing God and parakaleo for addressing Mary & the Saints. We have only the one word, “pray”, and hence the misunderstandings that arise because most protestants, who do not pray to Mary, do not understand this distinction and assume that Catholics pray to Mary in the same way that they pray to God.
Spirit & Truth Fellowship International (not Catholic) say about proseuchomai & parakaleo:
The Greek verb proseuchomai (#4336 proseu,comai) and its noun form proseuche (#4335 proseuch,), like euchomai and euche, denote prayer in the more general sense. This means the content of the prayer may include various specific requests (aitema), supplications (deēsis), intercessions (enteuxis), etc. However proseuchomai and proseuche are only used as prayer to God (the prefix pros means towards)—whereas euchomai and deēsis are not restricted in this way (Trench, Synonyms). It generally “seems to indicate not so much the contents of the prayer as its end and aim” (Thayer).
The Greek verb parakaleō (#3870 parakale,w) and its noun form paraklēsis (#3874 para,klhsij) have a very wide range of meaning. Further, they appear quite often in scripture (109 verb uses; 29 noun uses). The words’ basic meaning is to call to one’s side. “To call some one hither, that he may do something…to use persuasion with him” (Bullinger). The calling along can be meant to appeal or plead; encourage or urge; to comfort; summon or invite; only once is it applied to God and that by the Lord Jesus (Matt 26:53).
Their text on this lists many words Greek words that are translated as “pray” – euchomai, proseuchomai, erotao, aiteo, deomai, parakaleo, entynchano with explanations and examples in the NT.
See https://www.stfonline.org/pdf/rev/appendix_10_commentary.pdf
I am told that the Perseus Project lists 97 Greek words for "pray".
To summarise:
Catholics use one meaning of “pray” when addressing Mary and a different meaning when addressing God.
So Catholics do pray to Mary in one sense of “pray” (parakaleo)
Catholics don’t pray to Mary in another sense of “pray” (proseuchomai)
Before I move on to the next part, are there any comments on this so far?
