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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
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Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
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Depending upon the Holy Spirit for all you do?
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How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
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https://christianforums.net/threads/anointed-preaching-teaching.109331/#post-1912042
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Preachers who preach prosperity $
- Thread starter Lewis
- Start date
Vic C.
Member
Jesus gave and taught to give... sometime to give all:
Mat 16:24 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.
Mat 16:26 For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?
Mat 19:21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.
Luke 18:22 Now when Jesus heard these things, he said unto him, Yet lackest thou one thing: sell all that thou hast, and distribute unto the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, follow me.
Mark 10:21 Then Jesus beholding him loved him, and said unto him, One thing thou lackest: go thy way, sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, take up the cross, and follow me.
Hey Lewis, read the parable of the "penny" in Matthew 20...
Mat 20:16 So the last shall be first, and the first last: for many be called, but few chosen.
Your turn. 8-)
Mat 16:24 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.
Mat 16:26 For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?
Mat 19:21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.
Luke 18:22 Now when Jesus heard these things, he said unto him, Yet lackest thou one thing: sell all that thou hast, and distribute unto the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, follow me.
Mark 10:21 Then Jesus beholding him loved him, and said unto him, One thing thou lackest: go thy way, sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, take up the cross, and follow me.
Hey Lewis, read the parable of the "penny" in Matthew 20...
Mat 20:16 So the last shall be first, and the first last: for many be called, but few chosen.
Your turn. 8-)
V
vinc
Guest
IMHO There is nothing wrong in Prosperity as long as we do not put our trust in it instead of trusting in God and being grateful to God.
The Bible says that the Love of Money is the root cause of all evil. Therefore, having Money or Wealth or earning Money is not evil.
1 Timothy 6:10 - For the love of money is the root of all evil..
BIBLE VERSES WHICH SPEAK ABOUT RICHES AND PROSPERITY AS GOD'S BLESSING AND PROVISION -
Deuteronomy 28:8 - The LORD shall command the blessing upon thee in thy storehouses, and in all that thou settest thine hand unto; and he shall bless thee in the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee.
Proverbs 10:22 - The blessing of the LORD, it maketh rich, and he addeth no sorrow with it.
Genesis 36:7 - For their riches were more than that they might dwell together; and the land wherein they were strangers could not bear them because of their cattle.
Psalms 112:3 - Wealth and riches shall be in his house: and his righteousness endureth for ever.
Psalms 119:14 - I have rejoiced in the way of thy testimonies, as much as in all riches.
Proverbs 3:16 - Length of days is in her right hand; and in her left hand riches and honour.
Proverbs 22:4 - By humility and the fear of the LORD are riches, and honour, and life.
Proverbs 24:4 - And by knowledge shall the chambers be filled with all precious and pleasant riches.
Ecclesiastes 5:19 - Every man also to whom God hath given riches and wealth, and hath given him power to eat thereof, and to take his portion, and to rejoice in his labour; this is the gift of God.
BIBLE VERSES WHICH WARN THOSE WHO TRUST IN RICHES AND PROSPERITY INSTEAD OF TRUSTING IN GOD -
Psalms 52:7 - Lo, this is the man that made not God his strength; but trusted in the abundance of his riches, and strengthened himself in his wickedness.
Psalms 62:10 - Trust not in oppression, and become not vain in robbery: if riches increase, set not your heart upon them.
Proverbs 22:1 - A GOOD name is rather to be chosen than great riches, and loving favour rather than silver and gold.
Jeremiah 9:23 - Thus saith the LORD, Let not the wise man glory in his wisdom, neither let the mighty man glory in his might, let not the rich man glory in his riches:
Mark 4:19 - And the cares of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, and the lusts of other things entering in, choke the word, and it becometh unfruitful.
Mark 10:24 - And the disciples were astonished at his words. But Jesus answereth again, and saith unto them, Children, how hard is it for them that trust in riches to enter into the kingdom of God!
1 Timothy 6:17 - Charge them that are rich in this world, that they be not highminded, nor trust in uncertain riches, but in the living God, who giveth us richly all things to enjoy;
I suggest this enlightening chapter from the book titled "Heaven and its wonders and Hells" written by the Christian Seer E.Swedenborg who was permitted by Lord Jesus Christ to see the Heavens and Hells for a period of 27 years in the 18th century -
The Rich and the Poor in Heaven - http://swedenborg.newearth.org/hh/hh39.html
Lord bless you.
The Bible says that the Love of Money is the root cause of all evil. Therefore, having Money or Wealth or earning Money is not evil.
1 Timothy 6:10 - For the love of money is the root of all evil..
BIBLE VERSES WHICH SPEAK ABOUT RICHES AND PROSPERITY AS GOD'S BLESSING AND PROVISION -
Deuteronomy 28:8 - The LORD shall command the blessing upon thee in thy storehouses, and in all that thou settest thine hand unto; and he shall bless thee in the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee.
Proverbs 10:22 - The blessing of the LORD, it maketh rich, and he addeth no sorrow with it.
Genesis 36:7 - For their riches were more than that they might dwell together; and the land wherein they were strangers could not bear them because of their cattle.
Psalms 112:3 - Wealth and riches shall be in his house: and his righteousness endureth for ever.
Psalms 119:14 - I have rejoiced in the way of thy testimonies, as much as in all riches.
Proverbs 3:16 - Length of days is in her right hand; and in her left hand riches and honour.
Proverbs 22:4 - By humility and the fear of the LORD are riches, and honour, and life.
Proverbs 24:4 - And by knowledge shall the chambers be filled with all precious and pleasant riches.
Ecclesiastes 5:19 - Every man also to whom God hath given riches and wealth, and hath given him power to eat thereof, and to take his portion, and to rejoice in his labour; this is the gift of God.
BIBLE VERSES WHICH WARN THOSE WHO TRUST IN RICHES AND PROSPERITY INSTEAD OF TRUSTING IN GOD -
Psalms 52:7 - Lo, this is the man that made not God his strength; but trusted in the abundance of his riches, and strengthened himself in his wickedness.
Psalms 62:10 - Trust not in oppression, and become not vain in robbery: if riches increase, set not your heart upon them.
Proverbs 22:1 - A GOOD name is rather to be chosen than great riches, and loving favour rather than silver and gold.
Jeremiah 9:23 - Thus saith the LORD, Let not the wise man glory in his wisdom, neither let the mighty man glory in his might, let not the rich man glory in his riches:
Mark 4:19 - And the cares of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, and the lusts of other things entering in, choke the word, and it becometh unfruitful.
Mark 10:24 - And the disciples were astonished at his words. But Jesus answereth again, and saith unto them, Children, how hard is it for them that trust in riches to enter into the kingdom of God!
1 Timothy 6:17 - Charge them that are rich in this world, that they be not highminded, nor trust in uncertain riches, but in the living God, who giveth us richly all things to enjoy;
I suggest this enlightening chapter from the book titled "Heaven and its wonders and Hells" written by the Christian Seer E.Swedenborg who was permitted by Lord Jesus Christ to see the Heavens and Hells for a period of 27 years in the 18th century -
The Rich and the Poor in Heaven - http://swedenborg.newearth.org/hh/hh39.html
Lord bless you.
jgredline
Member
Ok
I will start by saying this.
There is nothing wrong with having money. Money is a good thing as it allows you or your church to do many good things. The problem is in how this money is obtained and how is it being used to further Gods Kingdom.
I will use myself and my church as an example.
I attend a very conservative church that teaches the bible verse by verse. The Lord has blessed our Church and Christian School and is very finacally secure.
I have also attended a church that had alot of Sin and was always broke.
As for me, while I am not a Rich man by the worlds standards I am far from poverty. Our 3 pastors are well paid. Our youth pastor makes 80k a year, let me put it that way. Now when you see how our pastors live, you would think they are struggling. No, they along with our Church has a huge prescence in the community, missions, helping the less fortunate and it starts with people in our own church.
I can't beging to tell you how many thousands and thousands of dollars I have given away to help people pay their rent, groceries, medical bills, My wife and i support samiritans purse, and the salvation army. I could be driving a Porsche or a BMW or what ever car I want, but I choose to drive a 99 dodge ram because its what I need, not what I want.
I have also been the recipiant of peoples generosity and have accepted with out guilt as I know every good and perfect gift comes from above.
So Jack, the verse you quoted is true and acurate and it needs no further exposition. Do I believe God wants us to prosper. Yes I do, but according to his ways. Gos wants his best for us. For some it could be wealth so they can help others, for some it could be living on faith that someone will send an unexpected check to pay bills or simply to eat.
This will be my opening satement for now and may edit it some more, but for now I will conclude with this before I move on to individuals and expose them for who they are..
Jesus himself was not a RICH man. Infact he tells us in Matt 8:20 Jesus replied, "Foxes have holes and birds of the air have nests, but the Son of Man has no place to lay his head."
So not only did Jesus not have a home (don't get this confused with home town) he also was supported finacially by Joanna the wife of Cuza, the manager of Herod's household; Susanna; and many others. These women were helping to support them out of their own means. Luke 8:3
So this verse in luke is a good example of people using thier wealth to further the kingdom. So money when used and aquired in the right way is a good thing.
Excuse the Type O's as I am at work and sneaking this in. Like Arnold said.
i'll be back.
Jg
I will start by saying this.
There is nothing wrong with having money. Money is a good thing as it allows you or your church to do many good things. The problem is in how this money is obtained and how is it being used to further Gods Kingdom.
I will use myself and my church as an example.
I attend a very conservative church that teaches the bible verse by verse. The Lord has blessed our Church and Christian School and is very finacally secure.
I have also attended a church that had alot of Sin and was always broke.
As for me, while I am not a Rich man by the worlds standards I am far from poverty. Our 3 pastors are well paid. Our youth pastor makes 80k a year, let me put it that way. Now when you see how our pastors live, you would think they are struggling. No, they along with our Church has a huge prescence in the community, missions, helping the less fortunate and it starts with people in our own church.
I can't beging to tell you how many thousands and thousands of dollars I have given away to help people pay their rent, groceries, medical bills, My wife and i support samiritans purse, and the salvation army. I could be driving a Porsche or a BMW or what ever car I want, but I choose to drive a 99 dodge ram because its what I need, not what I want.
I have also been the recipiant of peoples generosity and have accepted with out guilt as I know every good and perfect gift comes from above.
So Jack, the verse you quoted is true and acurate and it needs no further exposition. Do I believe God wants us to prosper. Yes I do, but according to his ways. Gos wants his best for us. For some it could be wealth so they can help others, for some it could be living on faith that someone will send an unexpected check to pay bills or simply to eat.
This will be my opening satement for now and may edit it some more, but for now I will conclude with this before I move on to individuals and expose them for who they are..
Jesus himself was not a RICH man. Infact he tells us in Matt 8:20 Jesus replied, "Foxes have holes and birds of the air have nests, but the Son of Man has no place to lay his head."
So not only did Jesus not have a home (don't get this confused with home town) he also was supported finacially by Joanna the wife of Cuza, the manager of Herod's household; Susanna; and many others. These women were helping to support them out of their own means. Luke 8:3
So this verse in luke is a good example of people using thier wealth to further the kingdom. So money when used and aquired in the right way is a good thing.
Excuse the Type O's as I am at work and sneaking this in. Like Arnold said.
i'll be back.
Jg
Vic C.
Member
Amen... providing that trust and gratefulness is more than mere lip service.vinc said:
Interesting, no NT passages. 8-)
Cool, I'll go with this also:
Matthew 19:23 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven.
Matthew 19:24 And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.
Luke 6:23 Rejoice ye in that day, and leap for joy: for, behold, your reward is great in heaven: for in the like manner did their fathers unto the prophets.
Luke 6:24 But woe unto you that are rich! for ye have received your consolation.
Luke 6:25 Woe unto you that are full! for ye shall hunger. Woe unto you that laugh now! for ye shall mourn and weep.
Luke 12:16 And he spake a parable unto them, saying, The ground of a certain rich man brought forth plentifully:
Luke 12:17 And he thought within himself, saying, What shall I do, because I have no room where to bestow my fruits?
Luke 12:18 And he said, This will I do: I will pull down my barns, and build greater; and there will I bestow all my fruits and my goods.
Luke 12:19 And I will say to my soul, Soul, thou hast much goods laid up for many years; take thine ease, eat, drink, and be merry.
Luke 12:20 But God said unto him, Thou fool, this night thy soul shall be required of thee: then whose shall those things be, which thou hast provided?
Luke 12:21 So is he that layeth up treasure for himself, and is not rich toward God.
Luke 14:1-24
Luke 16:19-31
... and I didn't even touch the epistles and letters. 8-)
Bottom line is; if you choose ownership over stewardship, you may be teaching a different Gospel than Jesus.
lovely
Member
Consider what John says here.
1 John 3:16
16 Hereby perceive we the love of God, because he laid down his life for us: and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren.
17 But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels of compassion from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him?
18 My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth.
19 And hereby we know that we are of the truth, and shall assure our hearts before him.
If we can understand God's love, and that He laid down his life for us, then what is it that we can sacrifice, or lay down, for our own brethren? If we do not love money, then we do not mind giving it freely. If we have, and others do not, then how is it that God's love dwells in us? I am not speaking of tithes here, but more...charity with service, and money, and food, etc. to those around us in need...true hospitality. We should not say we love God, and then not act on it. If we love, we do! This charity is above all else, and it is how we know that we have the truth in us, and it is our assurance before Him. Amazing, loving God, and allowing His love to flow through me, is my assurance before Him...what a double joy! This person, or believer, is the MOST PROSPEROUS of all because they love not money, and after meeting their needs, and responsibilities, and giving to their local meeting, the rest they are free to help others with. Think of the single parent struggling in your church, or the older believers with no children living on extremely small incomes. Think of those parents caring for sick children, or sick elder parents. Think of younger couples just starting out, and in need of a blessing. Think of widows who may have lost their homes, and such. Think of children orphaned who are waiting for a home. Give to God, use what you need, and give the rest for those brethren in need.
I do not understand why someone would preach that we can ask God for monetary prosperity. It seems like this would be the last thing to ask for when so many souls are lost. God will answer all our needs, and any request that is His will. "Lord, help me use my money for your glory" should be our prayer. That means giving all to Him first. When we do this we can give to our local meeting, spend wisely, and simply, caring for ourselves, and our family as good stewards, and seeking opportunities to practice charity towards others. We have only one life, and only what is done for God will be of eternal consequence. The Lord bless all of you.
The Lord bless all of you.
1 John 3:16
16 Hereby perceive we the love of God, because he laid down his life for us: and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren.
17 But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels of compassion from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him?
18 My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth.
19 And hereby we know that we are of the truth, and shall assure our hearts before him.
If we can understand God's love, and that He laid down his life for us, then what is it that we can sacrifice, or lay down, for our own brethren? If we do not love money, then we do not mind giving it freely. If we have, and others do not, then how is it that God's love dwells in us? I am not speaking of tithes here, but more...charity with service, and money, and food, etc. to those around us in need...true hospitality. We should not say we love God, and then not act on it. If we love, we do! This charity is above all else, and it is how we know that we have the truth in us, and it is our assurance before Him. Amazing, loving God, and allowing His love to flow through me, is my assurance before Him...what a double joy! This person, or believer, is the MOST PROSPEROUS of all because they love not money, and after meeting their needs, and responsibilities, and giving to their local meeting, the rest they are free to help others with. Think of the single parent struggling in your church, or the older believers with no children living on extremely small incomes. Think of those parents caring for sick children, or sick elder parents. Think of younger couples just starting out, and in need of a blessing. Think of widows who may have lost their homes, and such. Think of children orphaned who are waiting for a home. Give to God, use what you need, and give the rest for those brethren in need.
I do not understand why someone would preach that we can ask God for monetary prosperity. It seems like this would be the last thing to ask for when so many souls are lost. God will answer all our needs, and any request that is His will. "Lord, help me use my money for your glory" should be our prayer. That means giving all to Him first. When we do this we can give to our local meeting, spend wisely, and simply, caring for ourselves, and our family as good stewards, and seeking opportunities to practice charity towards others. We have only one life, and only what is done for God will be of eternal consequence. The Lord bless all of you.
The Lord bless all of you.
Vic C.
Member
Lovely post, Lovely. :-D A true Gospel message.
Lweis, I understand. But what I get from the Message from our Master is, the more you are blessed with, the more you should return to further the Kingdom. I see NO value in owning multiple cars, houses, jets, when one can be spending that money in SO many more productive ways. What is wrong with keeping what you need to live comfortably and giving the rest?
Mat 6:19 Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal:
Mat 6:20 But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal:
Mat 6:21 For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.
Mat 6:25 Therefore I say unto you, Take no thought for your life, what ye shall eat, or what ye shall drink; nor yet for your body, what ye shall put on. Is not the life more than meat, and the body than raiment?
Mat 6:26 Behold the fowls of the air: for they sow not, neither do they reap, nor gather into barns; yet your heavenly Father feedeth them. Are ye not much better than they?
Mat 6:27 Which of you by taking thought can add one cubit unto his stature?
Mat 6:28 And why take ye thought for raiment? Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow; they toil not, neither do they spin:
Mat 6:29 And yet I say unto you, That even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these.
Mat 6:30 Wherefore, if God so clothe the grass of the field, which to day is, and to morrow is cast into the oven, shall he not much more clothe you, O ye of little faith?
Mat 6:31 Therefore take no thought, saying, What shall we eat? or, What shall we drink? or, Wherewithal shall we be clothed?
Mat 6:32 (For after all these things do the Gentiles seek
for your heavenly Father knoweth that ye have need of all these things.
Mat 6:33 But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.
Mat 6:34 Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof.
Lweis, I understand. But what I get from the Message from our Master is, the more you are blessed with, the more you should return to further the Kingdom. I see NO value in owning multiple cars, houses, jets, when one can be spending that money in SO many more productive ways. What is wrong with keeping what you need to live comfortably and giving the rest?
Mat 6:19 Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal:
Mat 6:20 But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal:
Mat 6:21 For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.
Mat 6:25 Therefore I say unto you, Take no thought for your life, what ye shall eat, or what ye shall drink; nor yet for your body, what ye shall put on. Is not the life more than meat, and the body than raiment?
Mat 6:26 Behold the fowls of the air: for they sow not, neither do they reap, nor gather into barns; yet your heavenly Father feedeth them. Are ye not much better than they?
Mat 6:27 Which of you by taking thought can add one cubit unto his stature?
Mat 6:28 And why take ye thought for raiment? Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow; they toil not, neither do they spin:
Mat 6:29 And yet I say unto you, That even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these.
Mat 6:30 Wherefore, if God so clothe the grass of the field, which to day is, and to morrow is cast into the oven, shall he not much more clothe you, O ye of little faith?
Mat 6:31 Therefore take no thought, saying, What shall we eat? or, What shall we drink? or, Wherewithal shall we be clothed?
Mat 6:32 (For after all these things do the Gentiles seek
for your heavenly Father knoweth that ye have need of all these things.Mat 6:33 But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.
Mat 6:34 Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof.
P
Poke
Guest
How about a thread titled "Preachers who preach drinking"
Nothing wrong with drinking, but it must not be abused. Nothing wrong with money, but it must not be abused. The difference is, some preachers make "prosperity" their message because they are greedy and promise miraculous money to the poor who help them buy another private jet. No preacher preaches drinking as their message because there's no personal gain in encouraging alcohol abuse - at least for any preacher who doesn't own a liquor store.
Nothing wrong with drinking, but it must not be abused. Nothing wrong with money, but it must not be abused. The difference is, some preachers make "prosperity" their message because they are greedy and promise miraculous money to the poor who help them buy another private jet. No preacher preaches drinking as their message because there's no personal gain in encouraging alcohol abuse - at least for any preacher who doesn't own a liquor store.
Drew
Member
vinc said:
I think that "having a lot of money" is indeed a sin. However, I do not think that making a lot of money is a sin. I submit that those who believe that we can be wealthy and still not love money more than God are creating a category distinction that does not really exist. In a world with desperate need, we most certainly do love money more than God if we do not give most of it to worthy causes. This is because to love God is to love the "least of these" and to not give all you can to the least of these means you do not really love God.Lewis W said:
I believe many are trapped in this error because they fail to take the concept of "loving God more than money" and actually work out what it means in real living. We can claim to love God more than money, but if we hang onto wealth in a world with such need, our actions speak louder than our words.
I, of course, direct these words to myself as much as to anyone else.
P
Poke
Guest
Drew said:
I think the distinction that you're trying to make is whether or not the money is used on a self-indulgent lifestyle.
There's nothing wrong with making a million bucks and having a million bucks. Having a lot of money enables you to help people in ways you couldn't if you didn't have lots of money, even if it's just creating jobs by building a business.
One issue I have with wealth is that wealth is usually achieved through some sort of coercion of others, like millionaire ball players who play in stadiums paid for by taxpayers, not ticket buyers. Or wealthy TV preachers who essentually commit fraud to raise funds. This money might as well be stolen. Most of the rich are not like Sam Walton who became rich simply through honest business success in a truly free market. Even most rich businessmen owe government coersion for their wealth.