Preachers who preach prosperity $

[lily of God]

I would think that it is a selfish rich man, that Jesus is talking about' there are many rich people who give their time and money. And then you have those who do nothing for anybody. I will not make a excuse for the rich man. And I am totally against a selfish rich person. If I was rich I would give a lot to the poor and churches to further advance the kingdom of God. I see a lot of people talking about preachers with private jets' so what if they are flying around the world preaching the Gospel' so what if they have a jet. Not everybody acquires things through underhanded means, and then you have those who do. The Bible is full of rich people' who were people of God.
Now if you are a selfish rich man' Jesus commands you to give it up and follow Him, because He looks on the heart. And He knows what you are. And He wants you today' to give it up if the Holy Ghost tells you to, and He wants a heart that would be willing to give it up for Him. Jesus said it is hard for a rich man to enter heaven. He did not say it was IMPOSSIBLE. He was talking about thos selfish ones and the ones who think that they don't need God because they have it all. Now this is the way I look at it. Because God does bless certain people that way. Now I am waiting for somebody to tell me that God does not.

This sure is the popular interpretation.

I would be more careful about materialistic mentality. Materialistic mentality does not sound very compassionate as Christians.

my 2 cents :D

 

[destiny]

Proverbs 30:8-9

8 Keep falsehood and lies far from me;
give me neither poverty nor riches,
but give me only my daily bread.

9 Otherwise, I may have too much and disown you
and say, 'Who is the LORD ?'
Or I may become poor and steal,
and so dishonor the name of my God.

 

[Lewis]

This sure is the popular interpretation.

I would be more careful about materialistic mentality. Materialistic mentality does not sound very compassionate as Christians.

Well material gain is this topic. And if you will note' I spoke out against the selfish. I am not rich, but I have enough sense to know that not all rich people are satan driven. God wants you to enjoy the life and the things that He has put on this earth for you. But he does not want them to become your god.

 

[lily of God]

We sure can enjoy life without being materially blessed. Jesus wants us to be more than just not being selfish.

peace :D

 

[jgredline]

I will respond as to weather or not Jesus was a poor man with my original post

Jesus himself was not a RICH man. Infact he tells us in Matt 8:20 Jesus replied, "Foxes have holes and birds of the air have nests, but the Son of Man has no place to lay his head."

So not only did Jesus not have a home (don't get this confused with home town) he also was supported finacially by Joanna the wife of Cuza, the manager of Herod's household; Susanna; and many others. These women were helping to support them out of their own means. Luke 8:3

So this verse in luke is a good example of people using thier wealth to further the kingdom. So money is indeed a good thing when used in a way that s pleasing to the lord.



I think real question here should be as the post suggest the preachers who preach prosperity. Where in the bible is this taught. Don't give me single verses. Give me passages in context.

How does Robert Tilton justify what he does and says????
How does Peter Popoff justify what he does and says????
How does Mike Murdock justify what he says and does????
How does Creflo Dollar and his fleet of 6 RollsRoyce's justify what he says and does????
How does Keneth Copeland justify what he and new $10,000.000.00 jet says and does. (Remember, the best ride Jesus ever had was a donkey)
I will leave it at that for now since it made me laugh.
I can't wait to hear how these false teachers will be justified.

Blessings Javier.

 

[golfjack]

reply

I see that some have much maligned Word of Faith Ministries here. Let me say just one thing: The Bible says to examine our ownselves, and not others. I am not willing to interfere as to what God wants in His Church. I have been taught by in my opinion by one of the best teachers in the 20th century. Everything that he has taught me was always backed up by the Word of God. Some have even gone so far as to call him the anti-christ. We use to call him Papa dad. His name is Rev. Kenneth Hagin. He made faith come alive to me, as God told him in a vision to teach His people Faith. Lastly, because some have personal jets, I say, SO WHAT.



May God bless, golfjack

 

[Gabbylittleangel]

I see that some have much maligned Word of Faith Ministries here.

Is it so impossible to believe that there are things of the Spirit that we don't know? Have we become so stiff-necked in our own doctrines that we are to put down those believers who are a different part of the body than we are?

Because you are a ________ (insert your denomination here) are the Catholic, Baptist, Methodist, and Word of Faith believers less of a Christian than you? Because you are a _________, does that mean that the doctrines taught in other denominations are wrong? Are we now so Spiritually arrogant that we can believe that we have cornered the market on all Spiritual wisdom, and because we have nothing left to learn, we must go and correct the rest of the body?

I just finished reading 1 Cor. 12 in my devotions this morning. This is where Paul speaks of the church as being one body, with many different members. He wrote this to the church in Corinth, because they were jealous of the gifts that were displayed in other Christians. They coveted the gifts of the Spirit.

1Cr 12:4-5 Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit. And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord.

Today it seems that we have turned completely in the opposite direction. We believe that our doctrine is not only correct, but the only doctrine.

1Cr 12:15 If the foot shall say, Because I am not the hand, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body?

When Paul wrote this, it was to encourage believers that they were just as much a part of the body as the next believer. Today we need to be told that the other parts of the body are as much a part of the body as we are.

How this must grieve the Spirit. It reminds me of the disciples arguments over who among them would be the greatest in the Kingdom of God.

Why is it so difficult to believe that there are believers who have walked longer, know more and are deeper into the things of the Spirit than we are? Can you walk along the shoreline, look over the ocean to the horizon, and because you have gotten your feet wet, and have seen a few fish and sea shells, proclaim that you know what exist in the depths of the ocean?

Shall the foot say to the hand that because you are not the foot, you are not part of the body?

If you are a believer in the Lord Jesus Christ, and part of His body, then I encourage you to pray for those that are serving the Lord in a different manner than you are. It is a dangerous thing to speak against something that God has ordained. When one is called by the Lord to a specific task, to have a specific function in the body, He does not call the entire body to that function. Let God be God. If He calls someone else to work signs, wonders, and miracles, then it is because God wants signs wonders and miracles worked, and He has found a willing vessel.

If one member of the body is willing to travel the world and preach the gospel, the Praise the Lord that God has given them a vehicle to do so. God multiplies the seed that is given to the sower when the sower has proven to be productive.

If you are preaching the Gospel of Jesus Christ, and you are doing so with out a TV camera, without your own jet airplane, and without a car, and without a diamond ring, then preach it brother.

I tend to believe that God is searching attitudes more so than material possessions. Those among us who do not have a jet or a TV camera will be held accountable before the same Lord for our attitudes towards material possessions just as those who have the jets and TV cameras will be held accuntable for their attitudes.

Simply because someone elses car has more bells and whistles, or their TV set is bigger, does not make me more spiritual. Jets are not evil. Neither are Rolls Royces. God is looking at the hearts of people. You could go through my two room apartment and find things stacked to the ceiling that you would consider no more useful to the preaching of the gospel than someone else's garage full of Rolls Royces.

I can not find anything in Scripture that says prosperity is evil. Should we condemn Abraham for his wealth?

By the way, if you would like to have your very own jet or Rolls Royce, did you know that God answers prayer? I happen to know one young man that I went to school with, who wanted to be a preacher of the gospel when he grew up. He is doing so. He also told the Lord that He would like to be a millionaire. He is. May God increase his ministry!

Tell me this, if one is to be a perfect Christian, how much money should they have? What kind of car (or donkey) should they purchase? How should one go into all the world to preach the gospel if jet planes are forbidden?

 

[golfjack]

reply

Well said Gabby. And a Big Amen.




May God bless, golfjack

 

[Relic]

.

The wealth of protestant preacher seems to be the main focus here and no mention of the Catholic and the Orthodox Churches.

Has everyone forgotten about the Massive wealth within the Vatican, and what of all those hundreds, if not thousands, of "rich" palace like churches spread throughout Europe and in the rest of the world, Including America, which look like Huge Palaces?

For a pastor to write a few books or make a few music albums, well that's one things. They deserve their recompense. But for them to dig into the tithes given to the church... That's another story.
If the tithes given to the church are used for the building of the material walls of the church, the material wealth of the church, and there are still poor people in the area and across the world that are begging for food and live in run down shacks. What's wrong with this picture? :

I have greatly reduced my giving to organized religion because of the glitter they collect for themselves! I'd rather contribute part of my widows mite to the those who truly need it! Of course, those churches do some good in spreading the truth in the word, but then they also misguide people about the truth in the word about money.

I've even talked to many a minister, in my time looking for some wise counsel in those tough times in my life, looking for some counseling, and what did they do? They wouldn't help me out unless I "joined" the church. Now what kind of a minister is that? Who says, well I can't help you if you don't become a member of my church. :-? I believe that any minister no matter what denomination, should not base how much they can help a person by how much money that person gives the church! I believe a minister should be available to anyone who needs help, no matter what. If a person comes to a minister, that minister should be willing to reach out and help that person through, not cut them short and chase them away by saying I can't help you if you don't belong to my church. Since when are we supposed to belong to any ONE congregation? Where in the bible does it say that if you don't belong to a particular congregation, you will not be helped, but will be sent somewhere else, to places who do nothing but toss you from one person to the next without ever really getting the help you need. And the bottom line is this, because you don't have money to give them, they reject you!

RICH churches right in our own backyard and they refuse to reach out to help those who are right there in their own back yard! Shame, such a shame. People who need help and what's going on... The heads of the church are driving brand new cars and eating fillet minon while the members are tithing a widows mite and taking the bus because they don't have enough money to own a car. Sad, so sad.

Reminds me of the rich casino's in cities that are surrounded by the most poor in the community!

It is very important for the individual to learn how to discern the spirits.
Just because a person professes to be a minister, doesn't mean it really is a minister of God.
Yes, we all make mistakes in some of the things we say, and we should all be open to correction. But there are those ministers, who refuse to see what they are doing with the Lords money and hoard much of it for their own enjoyment being in complete excess of glitz and glamour of it. Churches that spend more money on the dressing of the building than they do the neighbor who lives only a few housed down. Ministers who are fat from all the rich food they eat and then there are poor people struggling to feed their children who only live a block away. Something is terribly wrong with that picture.

Yes, something is very wrong with many of these "organized" religions... Denomination makes no difference regarding the case in point.

.

 

[lily of God]

Well said relic :D

I don't give to an organized church any more. I am using God's money for my own evangelism and mission trips.

Thank you relic for speaking up.

peace

 

[Relic]

Well said relic :D

I don't give to an organized church any more. I am using God's money for my own evangelism and mission trips.
Thank you relic for speaking up.

peace

I am using God's money for my own evangelism and mission trips.

Amen to that.

 

[D46]

RICH churches right in our own backyard and they refuse to reach out to help those who are right there in their own back yard! Shame, such a shame. People who need help and what's going on... The heads of the church are driving brand new cars and eating fillet minon while the members are tithing a widows mite and taking the bus because they don't have enough money to own a car. Sad, so sad.

It's more than sad, Relic. The church I once went to has grown to the point now that I understand, they no longer can hold all the members and are building a new church just a few miles up the road. the property was sold to them at a meager "$530,000!!" I don't recall how many acres it was but, I understand the property is paid for. How much will the new church there cost? What of the new gym and school that will need to be built. We're talking several million here at least. Where's the money coming from? From poor or just meager folks like my ex-wife who faithfully attends church there, pays tithes and offerings when she can barely keep her 10 year old car running. Meanwhile the pastor, his wife, daughter and son-in-law go on trips to Florida, NY, and lately from what I hear just got back from a trip to China! Something wrong here. They never have the same clothes on Sunday night that they had on Sunday morning, have a new home built-and paid for, cars paid for, etc. My ex-wife (whom I still love dearly) can't eat out on Sunday afternoon because she doesn't have the money but she gives to missions and pays tithes to the church. Then, when you need them to discuss a personal problem in your life, you're lucky if you can talk to the pastor at all. Something wrong here.

 

[Gabbylittleangel]

Reminds me of the rich casino's in cities that are surrounded by the most poor in the community!

Would to God that we were more concerned with the wealth of the wicked, than condemning the wealth of our brothers and sisters. :-?

 

[Relic]

.

D46,

Exactly!

And why does it continue? Because seed of greed and the fruit produced from it is what they pay attention to.


Does God want them to pay attention to those who are in the immediate area? Does God want them to help people within their own neighborhood?

What do they do? They claim their missionaries are using much of their funds overseas helping the poor in some remote areas.

Pigs trample over pearls.

What ever happened to the minister who goes door to door to get to know people in the neighborhood and to keep a check on those who are in need of savants of God? Faith is one thing but to ignore the needs of those who are right in front of you, right in your own house? :-? What ever happened to kindly neighbors? Why are people so afraid and evasive of each other? It all stems from the roots of greed. Greed has many branches that grow out of its roots... Our world is at an epidemic level of greed. Doers of the word! Yeah right! What about those who are right in front of you? Meeting the needs of others in your own neighborhood. The roots of many of these churches are like nothing but growing weeds which choke out the needs of those who are right in their own garden. They are not tending to their own gardens! But are like nasty weeds who do nothing but drain the resources of the community ( and then when they have done so they move to a new location! ) They drain the resources of those who are used by them as food for their own growth, not the growth of the people who are in the community with needs, but for their own growth which is based on the greed dressed in glitz.

I'm sure many of these churches are more than happy to employ the poor widow for a minimum wage to tend to polishing their own jewels! :x Jesus will deal with them later, In due enough time! Even if it takes another 2000 years before the climax of all this greed. The day of judgment is coming for all these so called "churches", I'm sure.


.

.

 

[Gabbylittleangel]

Father,
I thank you that you have set up the economic systems of the world. I praise You for providing for your church all of our needs according to Your riches in glory through Christ Jesus.

Thank you Father that you give seed to the sower. You told us to pray to the Lord of the harvest to send forth the laborers. I pray that you would do so. Send your people into all the world to preach the gospel. Provide them with everything that they need, and provide through them to the lost and dieing world that needs to know about Jesus.

Thank you Father, that you provide food, clothing and shelter for your children, and for giving in abundance so that we can enjoy the world while we are here. I pray that we not become so distracted by our material possessions that we shift our focus off of you. I pray that we not become so distracted by our poverty and lack of material possessions and our wants and desires that we shift our focus from you.

You have provided many of my brothers and sisters in Christ with an abundance of material wealth and finances. I pray that you will also provide them with direction on how to spend it, save it, invest it, and use it all for your glory.

Lord, your word says in Proverbs 10:3 The LORD will not suffer the soul of the righteous to famish: but he casteth away the substance of the wicked.
I pray that you will deal with the jealousy and covetousness of your children, as well as our judgmental attitudes toward those who have more/less than ourselves.

You have distributed wealth as you see fit to do so, Lord. I pray that it will be multiplied as you see fit. That those in ministries that are serving you will have an abundance. Those among my brothers and sisters who have fallen into greed, or are caught up in worldly things because of their wealth or lack there of, I pray that you will pick them up and get them back into service to you gospel.

Lord, you are indeed Lord of all. I ask that according to your word, that you will redirect the wealth of the wicked into the hands of the righteous.
Thank you Father, and I pray these things in Jesus name. Amen.

 

[Relic]

Reminds me of the rich casino's in cities that are surrounded by the most poor in the community!

Would to God that we were more concerned with the wealth of the wicked, than condemning the wealth of our brothers and sisters. :-?

That kind of wealth is stemmed from the wickedness of greed! :-?
Be it of our brothers and sister's, or not. Just because they are our so called 'brothers and sisters', doesn't mean they are not being wicked in participating in such greed.

That kind of wealth is not being used for the Glory of God, but for the greed of the brothers and sisters within their own congregation, and for the glitz of the material building while there are poor widows giving their last penny, surely not so they can go into the treasury of the church and those greedy hands that dip into it for the mere purpose of greed and glitz embellishments.

As was presented earlier, if they earned it by means of writing a book or a music album, then what of that, they earned it. But to delve into the tithes of the church and embellish it while ignoring the needy right in front of them.... How can anyone say that is not wicked in itself? :o

James 2:15-17
15If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
16And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?
17Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.


Are they truly being good samaritans in the case of dipping into the church treasury just to put on more glitz on the walls of a building while ignoring the needs of the poor people right there in their own community? :o

All too many of the churches are too concerned with all the glitz they put in the walls of their churches with all the storing and hoarding of the churches treasury for the purpose of "embellishment".

Parable of the rich fool
Luke 13-21


The rich man and Lazarus
Luke 16:19-31
19 There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day:
20 And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores,
21 And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.
22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried; 23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame. ...

31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.



The parable of the Last judgment
Matthew 26:31-46

Parable of the good Samaritan
Luke 10:25-37


Are the churches applying those parables listed above to themselves when it comes right down to those in need who are right there in their own communities?

.

 

[D46]

Gabby-Do you support the Benny Hinn ministry? Or perhaps TBN in some way? Are they your brothers and sisters? They are probably only second in line with being as rich as the pope! They are parasites feeding off the ignorance of those who sit glued to the TV everyday thinking they are next to God.Their wealth came in many ways from the "poor widow" and I can attest to that as my naive aunt use to pour money into Benny Hinn's ministry from her SS check. To her, he was next to God and even had a lifesize poster of him on her closet door. Some so-called ministers of God are simply leaches and we should have the spiritual discernment of knowing the difference.

One other thing, when I left a certain church after attending there for five years, no one called to ask if I was ill, if there was a problem...nothing from anyone. Shows the importance of the members I suppose. The money stopped coming in and the interest in me waned.

 

[Relic]

Lord, you are indeed Lord of all. I ask that according to your word, that you will redirect the wealth of the wicked into the hands of the righteous.

I whole heartedly agree with this part of your prayer.



The storehouse is meant to serve the people, not to glizt up and bling bling the greedy.

.

 

[golfjack]

reply

If some of you would spend more time praying than complaining, and jealously, you might receive more from God. We can move God by faith because faith pleases God. If we are faithful in our giving and service, we can expect a big harvest. Has the Church become stingy?



May God bless, golfjack

 

[bobbysgirl]

I've just been sifting through this thread. Mind you, I'm a frugal type person who seeks to stretch a dollar as far as it can go, and hates to waste if I can help it...and wishes there were more thriftyness in the world all around and also believes in giving to God what is rightfully His and what He requests of His people.

About everything that's been mentioned in this thread....the prosperity preachers, the wondering if some are building their "empires" off of poor people's tithes, etc, etc....remember, God sees ALL of this. From the faithfulness of those who do tithe obediently when they can barely feed their family..... to the con artists who use God's glory for their personal gain...to the just who live within their means and freely give to those in need as well as to the Lord....everyone. God knows the hearts of all of these, and I believe He will deal with those who aren't using their blessings wisely, and also those who are squandering what rightfully belongs to God. I also believe that he truly blesses those who are faithful and obedient to His commands and teachings.

Right or wrong, God sees it and will deal with it.

Just my 2 cents for what it's worth. I could have said a lot more, but I've lots more I want to look at here. heh...I'm even being frugal in my posting. :smt080