Preachers who preach prosperity $

[Relic]

Re: reply

If some of you would spend more time praying than complaining, and jealously, you might receive more from God. We can move God by faith because faith pleases God. If we are faithful in our giving and service, we can expect a big harvest. Has the Church become stingy?

May God bless, golfjack

When Jesus revealed contradictions and corruptions was he complaining?
being Christ-like also means that we in some instances must to expose sin and bring it out into the open. How else are people to be brought to repentance from sin? The Holy Spirit deals with people through people also, not always on a solitary one on one mannerism. The Holy Spirit works in many ways. And then repentance is at hand, IF they are willing to turn away from the sin which has been exposed.

Revealing corruption is not complaining.
Don't confuse the truth about what complaining is in comparison to revealing corruption. Complaining is when someone doesn't want to do a work for the Lord. There is a huge difference in one who reveals corruption and one who refuses to do what needs to be done.


I do what God leads me to do, and if it is making people aware of the corruption within and without the church, then so be it. Someone has to shine the light on the darkenss and if God wants to use me in such an unpleasant way then so be it. You think I enjoy having to bring darkness to the light of truth? Many people didn't like the truth Jesus revealed about their sins, did they? Does a parent enjoy having to discipline their own children? There are somethings about being a Christian that are uncomfortable. The carnal minded only wants to be in that cushy comfortable place, don't they? :-? I'll tell ya, God uses me in ways I don't necessarily want to be used. And many of them are not for my own benefit but is for the unpleasant job of transforming of a lost soul. The process comes before the reward. In other words, The task of the sometimes tedious labor comes before the harvest.
I have no regrets in being used by God in this manner. I take up my cross daily, and I do what the Holy Spirit leads me to do. Christ told us all to take up the cross daily and follow him. Well, in instances where sin is brought to the light and revealed for what it truly is.... that old rugged cross of Christ is not easy to carry. Some people are used to bring truth to light by revealing sin. If you can't see that type of service working in your life, then what is your mission in this life?

I have been telling the truth. If you want to call it complaining then, that's not my problem how you react to the truth of what many of these churches are doing to innocent old ladies and people who don't know that the wool is being pulled over their eyes.

The Truth reveals the sins of the world. The Word of God convicts people of their sins. It doesn't consider righteous conviction as a form of complaining. Rebuking someone of the error in their ways is not complaining.

Yes, far too many churches have become stingy, and people need to be aware of the ones that are fleecing the innocent little old ladies and people who are not yet aware. Beware of wolves in sheeps clothing.

Following Jesus is not about fleecing his sheep. Following Jesus is not about robbing the people of the congregation so that the ministers can live in mansions made as a result of their own greed and lust for material wealth. Even the wicked are wealthy. Beware of wolves in sheeps clothing. Churches that are full of bling... must be approached with caution. They may be doing some good, but one must find out, are they robbing the till in the mean time? Woe to those who have Sticky fingers, those who are of the greedy people in the churches... While they are praying for the welfare of others, they are preying on the innocent.

If a person can't see that revealing the wickedness within and without is of a service to the Lord, then I question, are they are just as blind as those who are being fleeced by these wolves in sheeps clothing that are robbing the poor to make themselves even richer?


Let us all work for Christ in whatever way he's called us to be of service. Yes, even some have been called to be used in revealing sin and bringing those who are lost IN their sin to the Salvation of christ Jesus.
Yes, The Lord even uses us to reveal the sins of the wicked and it is not always an easy or comfortable task. And some dare call it complaining about others? :o

Are we all babes in Christ..... seeing in some areas but are blind in others.

Oh that Body of Christ.... It has many parts! 8-) No one wants to be a liver or a gall bladder, or a kidney, or a body part that rids the body of impurities, do they? :-? They all want to be the brain or the heart, and not the other parts that are so vital to the purifying of it.


Holy Spirit works in strange ways. Let those who are called to reveal the mess, and those who are called to clean up the garbage that was was exposed, and those who are called to filter out the impurities do their job. And stop saying they are complainers. They are working just as much for Christ as you are in whatever you think your mission is in service for him.

Some are called to help the poor, but what about those cops and detectives, what about those who do investigative work for the Lord God who are of service to the Lord God? Are they complainers because they in doing thier part are what you would call complaining about corruption that is going on? Are they not in truth revealing sin? Are they not of any value to the Holy Spirit who "reveals" the sins of the world so as to bring them to a place of repentance? Whether these people actually do repent, that is God's grace working a miracle!


God bless you.
.





.[edited for spelling corrections]

 

[Gabbylittleangel]

Just my 2 cents for what it's worth. I could have said a lot more, but I've lots more I want to look at here. heh...I'm even being frugal in my posting. :smt080

Luk 21:1-4 And he looked up, and saw the rich men casting their gifts into the treasury. And he saw also a certain poor widow casting in thither two mites. And he said, Of a truth I say unto you, that this poor widow hath cast in more than they all: For all these have of their abundance cast in unto the offerings of God: but she of her penury hath cast in all the living that she had.

May the Lord bless and multiply your 2 cents worth!

 

[golfjack]

reply

Plain ordinary Gossip. You can stay in dead churches and hang out with heresy hunters. Suggest you spend more time in the Word, then throwing the first stone. In reality, you have no idea what you are talking about.




May God bless, golfjack

 

[Relic]

Luk 21:1-4 And he looked up, and saw the rich men casting their gifts into the treasury. And he saw also a certain poor widow casting in thither two mites. And he said, Of a truth I say unto you, that this poor widow hath cast in more than they all: For all these have of their abundance cast in unto the offerings of God: but she of her penury hath cast in all the living that she had.

Fleecing the people and robbing them has nothing to do with obeying the call to tithe. Of course we are to thithe, but it doesn't mean we are to not expose those who are robbing it and misusing it.

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[jgredline]

I think real question here should be as the post suggest the preachers who preach prosperity. Where in the bible is this taught. Don't give me single verses. Give me passages in context.

How does Robert Tilton justify what he does and says????
How does Peter Popoff justify what he does and says????
How does Mike Murdock justify what he says and does????
How does Creflo Dollar and his fleet of 6 RollsRoyce's justify what he says and does????
How does Keneth Copeland justify what he and new $10,000.000.00 jet says and does. (Remember, the best ride Jesus ever had was a donkey)

2 Peter 2:1-3
2:1 But there were also false prophets among the people, even as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Lord who bought them, and bring on themselves swift destruction.
2:2 And many will follow their destructive ways, because of whom the way of truth will be blasphemed.
2:3 By covetousness they will exploit you with deceptive words; for a long time their judgment has not been idle, and their destruction does not slumber

OK lets see what the apsotle here is saying.
These false teachers are greedy, both in the sexual and financial realms. They have chosen the ministry as a lucrative profession. Their great aim is to build up a large following and thus to increase their income.
They exploit people with false words. Darby said, “The devil is never more satanic than when he carries a Bible.†So these men, with Bible in hand, pose as ministers of righteousness, give out well-known evangelical hymns, and use scriptural expressions. But all this is camouflage for heretical teachings and corrupt morals.
An awful condemnation awaits these religious fifth-columnists. Their judgment has not been idle; it has been arming itself for the slaughter. Their destruction has not been nodding its head in sleep; it has been wide awake, ready to pounce like a panther.



2 Peter 2:18-19 NKJV
2:18 For when they speak great swelling words of emptiness, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through lewdness, the ones who have actually escaped from those who live in error.
2:19 While they promise them liberty, they themselves are slaves of corruption; for by whom a person is overcome, by him also he is brought into bondage.


This is an accurate description of the words of many liberal preachers and false cultists. They are accomplished orators, holding audiences spellbound by their grandiose rhetoric. Their erudite vocabulary attracts undiscerning people. What their sermons lack in content, they make up for in a dogmatic, forceful presentation. But when they have finished they have said nothing.
The strategy of these false teachers is to allure people by promising unrestrained indulgence in every form of lust and passion. They teach that since our bodily appetites are God-given, they should not be restrained. To do so, they say, would cause severe personality disturbances. And so they advocate sexual experimentation before marriage and relaxed morals after marriage.
Their victims are the ones who have actually escaped from those who live in error. These unsaved people once indulged freely in sinful pleasures, but they’ve had a change of heart. They decide to reform, to turn over a new leaf, and to start attending church. Instead of going to a Bible-believing church, they wander into a service where one of these false shepherds is holding forth. Instead of hearing the gospel of salvation through faith in Christ, they hear sin condoned and permissiveness encouraged. It all comes as rather a surprise; they had always thought that sin was wrong and that the church was against it. Now they learn that sin is given religious approval!
The apostate ministers talk a lot about freedom, but they mean freedom from divine authority and freedom to sin. Actually, this is not liberty but the worst form of bondage. They themselves are slaves of corruption. Bound by the chains of evil lusts and habits, they are powerless to break free.

 

[Relic]

Destiny, I did. Thanks much. :D


=============

Plain ordinary Gossip. You can stay in dead churches and hang out with heresy hunters. Suggest you spend more time in the Word, then throwing the first stone. In reality, you have no idea what you are talking about.

May God bless, golfjack

Throwing stones aye? : Oh, I think you just threw one at me... :robot:

And you accuse me of having no idea what I'm talking about? 8-) :


gossip is not the issue. And who is staying in a dead church? Heresy hunters? : That's funny you think exposing sin is like being a heresy hunter? :

Prosperity preachers who foucs on materialism and rob the church is what is the matter.

Exposing them for what they are doing is not wrong nor is it throwing stone!.


Oh and by the way..... I agree the "truth" the porsperity preachers are preaching. It's the sly tricks they pull of the innocent that I don't agree with. They are experts and twisting the real truth about the tithing and the offerings.

The truth they preach is okay with me. Did you know that Marilyn Hickey gives some great bible studies as well as Benny Hinn and Joyce Meyers and yes, even Kenneth Copeland. And guess what? I even appreciate Charles Capps when he speak the whole truth. It's when they stick in those little bitty deceptions that you gotta watch out for.

Every pastor does it. I've even been to a funeral in which the minister minister made a blooper that was not in accordance to the truth in the Word of God. Does that mean I discarded the parts of truth he spoke? NO! I'm not afraid to admit that even I make mistakes sometimes. It's when we refuse correction that makes all the difference. Prove to me I am wrong and I will not shy away from correction of it.

Are you standing firm on your pride, Or are you standing on the Word of Truth? That's what makes all the difference in this debate here.

Do you think it's a problem when someone exposes the truth about a ministry who robs from the till?

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[jgredline]

Fleecing the people and robbing them has nothing to do with obeying the call to tithe. Of course we are to thithe, but it doesn't mean we are to not expose those who are robbing it and misusing it.

.

EXACTLY my point
Thanks Relic

 

[Gabbylittleangel]

Preachers who preach prosperity $, ok so what do you all think of these preachers, and why are they called false, teachers of the Gospel. And does the Bible back them up ?

Wow. This thread has taken a nasty turn!

:smt021 :smt014 :smt075

I want to start at the beginning again. Ok Lewis. Just what is the prosperity message?
That Christians can get be rolling in the money with Gods blessing or that Christians should bag up all of their money and send it to a Televangelist?

I figured the prosperity message was about how God will provide my needs, plus give me some extra to give to the poor, and support Christian ministry. I missed it somewhere.

 

[Relic]

Fleecing the people and robbing them has nothing to do with obeying the call to tithe. Of course we are to thithe, but it doesn't mean we are to not expose those who are robbing it and misusing it.

.

EXACTLY my point
Thanks Relic

The apostate ministers talk a lot about freedom, but they mean freedom from divine authority and freedom to sin. Actually, this is not liberty but the worst form of bondage. They themselves are slaves of corruption. Bound by the chains of evil lusts and habits, they are powerless to break free.

Yes, they are powerless to break free because they deny the pain of the cross. It is very painful to give up a sin that you love. If sin weren't pleasuarable would anyone want to participate in it?

Materialism gained by wicked ulterior motives is never a true blessing.

It takes a lot of pain and suffering to be freed from the bondage of sin.
We have to be willing to suffer through the withdrawl, which is that nagging desire to stay in it, that lack of foresight of it's consequences. It's not much different than withdrawl from some drug habit or sexual perversion one is not wanting to easily give up.
What do they think it means when Christ Jesus said to Take up your cross and follow him? Surely not to rob the till and live like a Happy old fat pig in a pen.... trampling on the pearls of truth. :o


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[golfjack]

reply

God does supply all our needs. We can be rich in God's mercy, His healing powers in the physical, emotional, and spiritual realm. I believe to obtain the blessings of God, we have to operate in faith. You see, first we believe in our hearts, and release it out of our mouths, just like we did when we were saved. Read Mark 11:23-24, and tell me what it is saying.

Do you people know how Jesse Duplantis Ministry started? It started when he gave 10,000 dollars to God, which left him broke. Do you know How Benny Hinn's Ministry started? At a Katherine Kuhlman crusade. Then he prayed for hours in the Spirit one night. Finally had a talk with Jesus, and the rest is history. Do you know how Kenneth Coipeland's Ministry started? When he went to Oral Roberts Uuniverrsity, and heard a prophesy.

Do you know much work it takes to preach a serman? You feel like you worked a 12 hour day. Do you know how much money it takes to run a big Ministry? Do you know how much work it takes to have a crusade and how many people have to work? Billy Graham plans for about 3 years and uses about a thousand workers to put it on. You see, this is the of the Ministry. Folks, we have to think big because God is a Big God. He is a god of more than enough. He is our Jehova Jira, our Jehova Raffa. You see, these men just believed and trusted God. If we want to give, we must give with a merry heart. It all depends on how much faith you put into your giving.


To me, it's a shame that people want to tear down what God wants for His Church.



May God bless, golfjack

 

[jgredline]

Re: reply

Sorry Goljack
I have to disagree with you. First of all Benny Hinn and Copeland have both claimed to have seen Jesus in the flesh.tHEY have even described how he looks. (i must have missed the rapture) Second Jesse Duplantis giving 10,000 well thats on him. None of what you have said justifies how those and other name it and claim it preachers fleece the sheep. They are robbing in the name of God. You mentioned the Billy Graham.. Billy Graham does not promote faith seed theology.
Golf, To be honest I am surprised that you with your obviouse knowledge and understanding don't see the fault in what those guys are doing?.
I have been nice on only posting a few bad things on those guys, but like I said, they have left an enormas amount of ammo that can be used against them. The Apostle Peter wrote a few chapters warning us against those false teachers.




:-?

 

[lily of God]

Don't those prosperity preachers all speak in tongues, too?

 

[Gabbylittleangel]

Don't those prosperity preachers all speak in tongues, too?

:o Not only that...They believe Jesus rose from the dead...

 

[Gabbylittleangel]

Re: reply

... Lastly, because some have personal jets, I say, SO WHAT.

If the mob can have their very own jets, why can't the church?

 

[jgredline]

Don't those prosperity preachers all speak in tongues, too?

:o Not only that...They believe Jesus rose from the dead...

Yea. I am sure believe. Afterall a couple of them have claimed to have seen Jesus in the flesh . Did you know Jesus is about 6'3'' tall ?

 

[Gabbylittleangel]

Jesus in the flesh

Don't those prosperity preachers all speak in tongues, too?

:o Not only that...They believe Jesus rose from the dead...

Yea. I am sure believe. Afterall a couple of them have claimed to have seen Jesus in the flesh . Did you know Jesus is about 6'3'' tall ?

I have been beaten into his presence myself a few times. I was a child at the time, so I could not tell you how tall He was.

 

[jgredline]

:o

 

[lovely]

I don't know how many of you have heard of Keith Green. I enjoy his music very much...he is outside of my preferred style, but his lyrics have helped me form many prayers as I care for my home throughout the day. I can't remember the title of the song, but there is a line that goes like this...

"You've got to change my heart. Let me die to my selfishness, and come alive to the things that move your heart!."

It is my prayer that my hearts desire would always be to that I come alive to the things that truly move God. The thought is exciting, isn't it. If our prayers are truly led by the Spirit, then we should be praying (and teaching) in a way that reflects our denial of ourselves, and focuses on Him, and His will. Secondly, we need to know that we can trust God to provide for us, if we are obedient in applying His principals of loving Him first, working hard for His glory, and being charitable in our hearts, and actions, to those around us. Christ is our priest, and we give all to Him. He wants our life, and all that it encompasses. The leading of the Spirit, and the Word of God, should be all that we defend, and uphold...men, are fallible...all of us.