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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
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Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
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Depending upon the Holy Spirit for all you do?
Read through the following study by Tenchi for more on this topic
https://christianforums.net/threads/without-the-holy-spirit-we-can-do-nothing.109419/
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How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
Join Sola Scriptura for a discussion on the subject
https://christianforums.net/threads/anointed-preaching-teaching.109331/#post-1912042
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Preachers who preach prosperity $
- Thread starter Lewis
- Start date
jgredline
Member
Well it seems we all agree that money is good when used to further the kingdom of GOD.
In saying that, how can Paul and Jan Crouch justify this?
TBN Televangelists Buy $5,000,000 Home
LOS ANGELES TIMES, Nov.4,2001, page K15
DITC Commentary: Ever wonder where all those "seed faith" dontations are going? Whose getting rich again? Remind me. It thought it was those people who sent in their seed faith donations who were going to get a "100 fold increase" and that they would be the ones buying luxury homes. What a shock to find out it doesn't work out that way! Duh!!!!
Televangelists JAN and PAUL CROUCH of the Costa Mesa-based Trinity Broadcasting Network have purchased a Newport Beach house for close to $5 million, Orange County Realtors say.
The home was described as "a palatial estate with ocean and city views." The Crouches had been living in a smaller house in the same neighborhood.
The house they bought has six bedrooms, nine bathrooms, a billiard room, a climate-controlled wine cellar, a sweeping staircase and a crystal chandelier.
The three-story, nearly 9,500-square-foot house, which has an elevator, also has a six-car garage, a tennis court and a pool with a fountain.
The house is on slightly more than an acre. Jan Crouch had been wanting a bigger yard for her dogs, sources said.
I have not even begun to touch thier three jets, 4 other homes, the many people who Paul Crouch had to pay off to keep thier homosexual affairs secret and so forth.
In saying that, how can Paul and Jan Crouch justify this?
TBN Televangelists Buy $5,000,000 Home
LOS ANGELES TIMES, Nov.4,2001, page K15
DITC Commentary: Ever wonder where all those "seed faith" dontations are going? Whose getting rich again? Remind me. It thought it was those people who sent in their seed faith donations who were going to get a "100 fold increase" and that they would be the ones buying luxury homes. What a shock to find out it doesn't work out that way! Duh!!!!
Televangelists JAN and PAUL CROUCH of the Costa Mesa-based Trinity Broadcasting Network have purchased a Newport Beach house for close to $5 million, Orange County Realtors say.
The home was described as "a palatial estate with ocean and city views." The Crouches had been living in a smaller house in the same neighborhood.
The house they bought has six bedrooms, nine bathrooms, a billiard room, a climate-controlled wine cellar, a sweeping staircase and a crystal chandelier.
The three-story, nearly 9,500-square-foot house, which has an elevator, also has a six-car garage, a tennis court and a pool with a fountain.
The house is on slightly more than an acre. Jan Crouch had been wanting a bigger yard for her dogs, sources said.
I have not even begun to touch thier three jets, 4 other homes, the many people who Paul Crouch had to pay off to keep thier homosexual affairs secret and so forth.
jgredline
Member
WOF DOCTRINE
OF God
Word-Faith teachers claim that God operates by spiritual law and is obliged to obey the faith-filled commands and desires of believers. He not only reveals prosperity teaching supernaturally to the Word-Faith teachers, but personally and verbally confirms their unique interpretations of Scripture (Copeland, Laws of Prosperity, pp. 60-62).
They say the Abrahamic Covenant is the basis for commanding God to do His part in the covenant. Robert Tilton says, "we make our own promises to do our part, then we can tell God, on the authority of His word, what we would like Him to do. That's right, you can actually tell God what you would like His part in the Covenant to be" (God's Miracle Plan for Man, p. 36). Kenneth Copeland says, "as a believer, you have a right to make commands in the name of Jesus. Each time you stand on the Word, you are commanding God to a certain extent, because it is His Word" (Our Covenant with God, p. 32). Copeland goes so far as to say that "God was the lesser party and Abraham was the greater" in the covenant between them (Copeland, Legal and Vital Aspects of Redemption, 1985, Audio Tape #01-0403).
The Faith teachers also make God into a big man. Copeland says, "God is...a being that stands somewhere around 6'-2," 6'-3," that weighs somewhere in the neighborhood of a couple of hundred pounds, little better, and has a hand span of nine inches across" (Spirit, Soul, and Body, 1985, Tape #01-0601). Morris Cerillo, in an alleged out-of-body experience, describes God: "Suddenly, in front of this tremendous multitude of people, the glory of God appeared. The form that I saw was about the height of a man 6 feet tall, maybe taller, and twice as broad as a human body, with no distinguishing features such as eyes, nose, or mouth" (The Miracle Book, pp. x-xi).
To read the entire article on the doctrine of WOLF click on the link.
http://www.watchman.org/profile/wordpro.htm
OF God
Word-Faith teachers claim that God operates by spiritual law and is obliged to obey the faith-filled commands and desires of believers. He not only reveals prosperity teaching supernaturally to the Word-Faith teachers, but personally and verbally confirms their unique interpretations of Scripture (Copeland, Laws of Prosperity, pp. 60-62).
They say the Abrahamic Covenant is the basis for commanding God to do His part in the covenant. Robert Tilton says, "we make our own promises to do our part, then we can tell God, on the authority of His word, what we would like Him to do. That's right, you can actually tell God what you would like His part in the Covenant to be" (God's Miracle Plan for Man, p. 36). Kenneth Copeland says, "as a believer, you have a right to make commands in the name of Jesus. Each time you stand on the Word, you are commanding God to a certain extent, because it is His Word" (Our Covenant with God, p. 32). Copeland goes so far as to say that "God was the lesser party and Abraham was the greater" in the covenant between them (Copeland, Legal and Vital Aspects of Redemption, 1985, Audio Tape #01-0403).
The Faith teachers also make God into a big man. Copeland says, "God is...a being that stands somewhere around 6'-2," 6'-3," that weighs somewhere in the neighborhood of a couple of hundred pounds, little better, and has a hand span of nine inches across" (Spirit, Soul, and Body, 1985, Tape #01-0601). Morris Cerillo, in an alleged out-of-body experience, describes God: "Suddenly, in front of this tremendous multitude of people, the glory of God appeared. The form that I saw was about the height of a man 6 feet tall, maybe taller, and twice as broad as a human body, with no distinguishing features such as eyes, nose, or mouth" (The Miracle Book, pp. x-xi).
To read the entire article on the doctrine of WOLF click on the link.
http://www.watchman.org/profile/wordpro.htm
jgredline
Member
Joyce Meyer.. Ministry Headquarters
The ministry's headquarters is a three-story jewel of red brick and emerald-color glass that, from the outside, has the look and feel of a luxury resort hotel. Built two years ago for $20 million, the building and grounds are postcard perfect, from manicured flower beds and walkways to a five-story lighted cross.
The driveway to the office complex is lined on both sides with the flags of dozens of nations reached by the ministry. A large bronze sculpture of the Earth sits atop an open Bible near the parking lot. Just outside the main entrance, a sculpture of an American eagle landing on a tree branch stands near a man-made waterfall. A message in gold letters greets employees and visitors over the front entryway: "Look what the Lord Has Done."
The building is decorated with religious paintings and sculptures, and quality furniture. Much of it, Meyer says, she selected herself.
A Jefferson County assessor's list offers a glimpse into the value of many of the items: a $19,000 pair of Dresden vases, six French crystal vases bought for $18,500, an $8,000 Dresden porcelain depicting the Nativity, two $5,800 curio cabinets, a $5,700 porcelain of the Crucifixion, a pair of German porcelain vases bought for $5,200.
The decor includes a $30,000 malachite round table, a $23,000 marble-topped antique commode, a $14,000 custom office bookcase, a $7,000 Stations of the Cross in Dresden porcelain, a $6,300 eagle sculpture on a pedestal, another eagle made of silver bought for $5,000, and numerous paintings purchased for $1,000 to $4,000 each.
Inside Meyer's private office suite sit a conference table and 18 chairs bought for $49,000. The woodwork in the offices of Meyer and her husband cost the ministry $44,000.
In all, assessor's records of the ministry's personal property show that nearly $5.7 million worth of furniture, artwork, glassware, and the latest equipment and machinery fill the 158,000-square-foot building.
As of this summer, the ministry also owned a fleet of vehicles with an estimated value of $440,000. The Jefferson County assessor has been trying to get the complex and its contents added to the tax rolls but has failed. {INDEX}
Stylish sports cars and a plane
Meyer drives the ministry's 2002 Lexus SC sports car with a retractable top, valued at $53,000. Her son Dan, 25, drives the ministry's 2001 Lexus sedan, with a value of $46,000. Meyer's husband drives his Mercedes-Benz S55 AMG sedan. "My husband just likes cars," Meyer said.
The Meyers keep the ministry's Canadair CL-600 Challenger jet, which Joyce Meyer says is worth $10 million, at Spirit of St. Louis Airport in Chesterfield. The ministry employs two full-time pilots to fly the Meyers to conferences around the world.
Meyer calls the plane a "lifesaver" for her and her family. "It enabled us, at our age, to travel literally all over the world and preach the gospel" with better security than that offered on commercial flights, she said.
Security is important to Meyer, who says she has received death threats. She has a division of the ministry dedicated to her safety. Her officers wear pistols; they guard the headquarters' front gate, keeping out anyone but employees and invited guests. The ministry bought a $145,000 house where the security chief lives rent-free to keep him close to the ministry's headquarters. {INDEX}
The family compound
The ministry has also bought homes for other key employees.
Since 1999, the ministry has spent at least $4 million on five homes for Meyer and her four children near Interstate 270 and Gravois Road, St. Louis County records show.
Meyer's house, the largest of the five, is a 10,000-square-foot Cape Cod style estate home with a guest house and a garage that can be independently heated and cooled and can hold up to eight cars. The three-acre property has a large fountain, a gazebo, a private putting green, a pool and a poolhouse where the ministry recently added a $10,000 bathroom. See Aerial View of All Five Houses
The ministry pays for utilities, maintenance and landscaping costs at all five homes. It also pays for renovations. The Meyers ordered major rehab work at the ministry's expense right after the ministry bought three of the homes. For example, the ministry bought one home, leveled it and then built a new home on the site to the specifications of Meyer's daughter Sandra and her husband, county records show.
Even the property taxes, $15, 629 this year, are paid by the ministry.
Meyer called the homes a "good investment" for the ministry and said the ministry bears the cost of upkeep and maintenance because the family is too busy to take care of such tasks. "It's just too hard to keep up with something like that when you travel as much as we do," Meyer said.
She said that federal tax law allows ministries to buy parsonages for their employees, so the arrangement does not violate any prohibitions against personal benefit. Meyer also said the decision to cluster the families together was a way to build a buffer to better ensure privacy and security.
"We put good people all around us," she said. "Obviously, if I was trying to hide anything or thought I was doing anything wrong, I wouldn't live on the corner of Gravois and 270." {INDEX}
The irrevocable trust
Meyer says she expects the best, from where she lives to how she looks. Much of her clothing is custom-tailored at an upscale West County dress shop. At her conferences, she usually wears flashy jewelry. She sports an impressive diamond ring that she said she got from one of her followers. Meyer has a private hairdresser. And, a few years ago, Meyer told her employees she was getting a face-lift.
Not everything is paid directly by the ministry.
Last year, the Meyers bought a $500,000 atrium ranch lakefront home in Porto Cima, a private-quarters club at Lake of the Ozarks. A few weeks later, they bought two watercrafts similar to Jet Skis and a $105,000 Crownline boat painted red, white and blue that they named the Patriot.
In 2000, the Meyers also bought her parents a $130,000 home just a few minutes from where the Meyers live.
The Meyers have put the Mercedes, the lake house, the boat and her parents' home into an irrevocable trust, an arrangement that tax experts say would help protect them from any financial problems at the minisry.
Meyer says she should not have to defend how she spends the ministry's money. "We teach and preach and believe biblically that God wants to bless people who serve Him," Meyer said. "So there's no need for us to apologize for being blessed." {INDEX}
Meyer's "trusted" board
For the most part, Meyer can spend the ministry's money any way she sees fit because her board of directors is handpicked. It consists of Meyer, her husband and all four of her children  all paid workers  as well as six of Meyer's closest friends. (Ministry officials said that daughter Laura Holtzmann has now resigned; state records still list her on the board.) "Our family is a huge help to us," Meyer said. "We couldn't do this if we didn't have somebody we trusted."
Board members Roxane and Paul Schermann are such close friends that for more than a decade they lived in the Meyers' home. The ministry employed both of them as high-level managers and in 2001 bought them a $334,000 home. Roxane Schermann no longer works at the ministry; her husband continues as a paid division manager. The Schermanns bought the house at the same price from the ministry in January. Delanie Trusty, the ministry's certified public accountant, also serves as the ministry board's secretary.
The board decides how the ministry's money is spent. The salaries of Meyer and her family are set by those board members who are not family members and are not employed by the ministry, Meyer's lawyer said. The arrangement meets IRS regulations, the lawyer said.
"We certainly wouldn't have enemies and people we don't know" on the board, Meyer said. "That wouldn't make any sense. Anybody who has a board is going to have people in favor of you."
Meyer and her ministry refuse to tell how much the ministry pays Meyer, her husband, her children and her children's spouses. "I don't make any more than I'm worth," Meyer said. "We're definitely within IRS guidelines."
Such an overlap between top administrators and board members concerns the IRS because "the opportunity to manipulate and control the organization is easier to accomplish," said Bruce Philipson of St. Paul, Minn., the IRS group manager of tax-exempt organizations for this region. (Carolyn Tuft and Bill Smith St. Louis Post-Dispatch 11/15/2003)
The ministry's headquarters is a three-story jewel of red brick and emerald-color glass that, from the outside, has the look and feel of a luxury resort hotel. Built two years ago for $20 million, the building and grounds are postcard perfect, from manicured flower beds and walkways to a five-story lighted cross.
The driveway to the office complex is lined on both sides with the flags of dozens of nations reached by the ministry. A large bronze sculpture of the Earth sits atop an open Bible near the parking lot. Just outside the main entrance, a sculpture of an American eagle landing on a tree branch stands near a man-made waterfall. A message in gold letters greets employees and visitors over the front entryway: "Look what the Lord Has Done."
The building is decorated with religious paintings and sculptures, and quality furniture. Much of it, Meyer says, she selected herself.
A Jefferson County assessor's list offers a glimpse into the value of many of the items: a $19,000 pair of Dresden vases, six French crystal vases bought for $18,500, an $8,000 Dresden porcelain depicting the Nativity, two $5,800 curio cabinets, a $5,700 porcelain of the Crucifixion, a pair of German porcelain vases bought for $5,200.
The decor includes a $30,000 malachite round table, a $23,000 marble-topped antique commode, a $14,000 custom office bookcase, a $7,000 Stations of the Cross in Dresden porcelain, a $6,300 eagle sculpture on a pedestal, another eagle made of silver bought for $5,000, and numerous paintings purchased for $1,000 to $4,000 each.
Inside Meyer's private office suite sit a conference table and 18 chairs bought for $49,000. The woodwork in the offices of Meyer and her husband cost the ministry $44,000.
In all, assessor's records of the ministry's personal property show that nearly $5.7 million worth of furniture, artwork, glassware, and the latest equipment and machinery fill the 158,000-square-foot building.
As of this summer, the ministry also owned a fleet of vehicles with an estimated value of $440,000. The Jefferson County assessor has been trying to get the complex and its contents added to the tax rolls but has failed. {INDEX}
Stylish sports cars and a plane
Meyer drives the ministry's 2002 Lexus SC sports car with a retractable top, valued at $53,000. Her son Dan, 25, drives the ministry's 2001 Lexus sedan, with a value of $46,000. Meyer's husband drives his Mercedes-Benz S55 AMG sedan. "My husband just likes cars," Meyer said.
The Meyers keep the ministry's Canadair CL-600 Challenger jet, which Joyce Meyer says is worth $10 million, at Spirit of St. Louis Airport in Chesterfield. The ministry employs two full-time pilots to fly the Meyers to conferences around the world.
Meyer calls the plane a "lifesaver" for her and her family. "It enabled us, at our age, to travel literally all over the world and preach the gospel" with better security than that offered on commercial flights, she said.
Security is important to Meyer, who says she has received death threats. She has a division of the ministry dedicated to her safety. Her officers wear pistols; they guard the headquarters' front gate, keeping out anyone but employees and invited guests. The ministry bought a $145,000 house where the security chief lives rent-free to keep him close to the ministry's headquarters. {INDEX}
The family compound
The ministry has also bought homes for other key employees.
Since 1999, the ministry has spent at least $4 million on five homes for Meyer and her four children near Interstate 270 and Gravois Road, St. Louis County records show.
Meyer's house, the largest of the five, is a 10,000-square-foot Cape Cod style estate home with a guest house and a garage that can be independently heated and cooled and can hold up to eight cars. The three-acre property has a large fountain, a gazebo, a private putting green, a pool and a poolhouse where the ministry recently added a $10,000 bathroom. See Aerial View of All Five Houses
The ministry pays for utilities, maintenance and landscaping costs at all five homes. It also pays for renovations. The Meyers ordered major rehab work at the ministry's expense right after the ministry bought three of the homes. For example, the ministry bought one home, leveled it and then built a new home on the site to the specifications of Meyer's daughter Sandra and her husband, county records show.
Even the property taxes, $15, 629 this year, are paid by the ministry.
Meyer called the homes a "good investment" for the ministry and said the ministry bears the cost of upkeep and maintenance because the family is too busy to take care of such tasks. "It's just too hard to keep up with something like that when you travel as much as we do," Meyer said.
She said that federal tax law allows ministries to buy parsonages for their employees, so the arrangement does not violate any prohibitions against personal benefit. Meyer also said the decision to cluster the families together was a way to build a buffer to better ensure privacy and security.
"We put good people all around us," she said. "Obviously, if I was trying to hide anything or thought I was doing anything wrong, I wouldn't live on the corner of Gravois and 270." {INDEX}
The irrevocable trust
Meyer says she expects the best, from where she lives to how she looks. Much of her clothing is custom-tailored at an upscale West County dress shop. At her conferences, she usually wears flashy jewelry. She sports an impressive diamond ring that she said she got from one of her followers. Meyer has a private hairdresser. And, a few years ago, Meyer told her employees she was getting a face-lift.
Not everything is paid directly by the ministry.
Last year, the Meyers bought a $500,000 atrium ranch lakefront home in Porto Cima, a private-quarters club at Lake of the Ozarks. A few weeks later, they bought two watercrafts similar to Jet Skis and a $105,000 Crownline boat painted red, white and blue that they named the Patriot.
In 2000, the Meyers also bought her parents a $130,000 home just a few minutes from where the Meyers live.
The Meyers have put the Mercedes, the lake house, the boat and her parents' home into an irrevocable trust, an arrangement that tax experts say would help protect them from any financial problems at the minisry.
Meyer says she should not have to defend how she spends the ministry's money. "We teach and preach and believe biblically that God wants to bless people who serve Him," Meyer said. "So there's no need for us to apologize for being blessed." {INDEX}
Meyer's "trusted" board
For the most part, Meyer can spend the ministry's money any way she sees fit because her board of directors is handpicked. It consists of Meyer, her husband and all four of her children  all paid workers  as well as six of Meyer's closest friends. (Ministry officials said that daughter Laura Holtzmann has now resigned; state records still list her on the board.) "Our family is a huge help to us," Meyer said. "We couldn't do this if we didn't have somebody we trusted."
Board members Roxane and Paul Schermann are such close friends that for more than a decade they lived in the Meyers' home. The ministry employed both of them as high-level managers and in 2001 bought them a $334,000 home. Roxane Schermann no longer works at the ministry; her husband continues as a paid division manager. The Schermanns bought the house at the same price from the ministry in January. Delanie Trusty, the ministry's certified public accountant, also serves as the ministry board's secretary.
The board decides how the ministry's money is spent. The salaries of Meyer and her family are set by those board members who are not family members and are not employed by the ministry, Meyer's lawyer said. The arrangement meets IRS regulations, the lawyer said.
"We certainly wouldn't have enemies and people we don't know" on the board, Meyer said. "That wouldn't make any sense. Anybody who has a board is going to have people in favor of you."
Meyer and her ministry refuse to tell how much the ministry pays Meyer, her husband, her children and her children's spouses. "I don't make any more than I'm worth," Meyer said. "We're definitely within IRS guidelines."
Such an overlap between top administrators and board members concerns the IRS because "the opportunity to manipulate and control the organization is easier to accomplish," said Bruce Philipson of St. Paul, Minn., the IRS group manager of tax-exempt organizations for this region. (Carolyn Tuft and Bill Smith St. Louis Post-Dispatch 11/15/2003)
jgredline
Member
Last post for now
They're Leavin' On a Jet Plane
by Pete Evans & Todd Bates (http://www.wittenburgdoor.com)
ENTRY-LEVEL, STARTER JETS
Up-and-coming Tilton impersonator Paula White owns a Hawker-Siddeley "Jet Dragon" – aptly named for the trail of smoke it would leave IF it could fly or IF she could get parts for this 1965-vintage relic. Truly a vanity purchase, it's been grounded since she bought it, just so she can SAY she has a jet.
THE CESSNA CITATION CLUB
· Copeland proteges Jesse Duplantis and Jerry Savelle, plus Florida upstart Mark Bishop, each fly their own Cessna Citation 500. They cruise at 400 mph with a range of 1,400 miles and carry a price tag of about $1.25 million each.
THE GRUMMAN GULFSTREAM GUYS
· Fred Price, Creflo Dollar and Brother Benny Hinn all have their own Grumman Gulfstream II's. With a two-man crew and 19 passengers, these babies cruise at 581 mph with a range of 4,275 miles. Used, they're worth about $4.5 million each.
THE BIG-BUCK BOYS, THE CHALLENGER 600s
· Paul Crouch owns the current Queen of the Flying-Televangelist Fleet – a Bombardier Challenger 604. Carrying a crew of two plus 19 passengers, she cruises at 529 mph with a range of 3,860 miles. She's valued at $16.5 million, not including Paul's "special interior remodeling."
· The late Ken Hagin's Challenger 601, about 10 years older than Paul's, is "only" worth about $9.6 million.· Recently exposed uberspender Joyce Meyer has her own Challenger 600. A full 18 years older than Paul's, this one's only worth a paltry $4.5 million. Let's hear it for Joyce's frugal stewardship!
KENNY COPELAND – UNDISPUTED KING OF THE FLYING COWBOYS
· His Cessna Citation 550 Bravo (valued at $3.4 million), PLUS his Grumman Gulfstream II (worth $4.5 million) AND his Cessna Golden Eagle AND his Beech E-55 AND his assorted lesser aircraft AND his own airport all add up to untold millions of poor folks' dollars. But Kenny's masterstroke is the fact that he's now telling the faithful that God wants him and wife Gloria to EACH have their own Cessna Citation Ten super-jets. Flying just below the speed of sound, these state-of-the-art flying palaces carry a base sticker price of $20 million! That means when "God" has his way, the widows and orphans will have "invested" just about $50-60 million in Kenny's Heavenly Air Force.
UPDATE: “Over the past several years Kenneth and Gloria Copeland have been believing God for a Cessna Citation X jetâ€â€a plane they would be able to use in fulfilling their God-appointed assignment and the calling on Kenneth Copeland Ministries to take the Word of God to the worldâ€â€from the top to the bottom and all the way around. At 2 p.m. on Friday, July 22, 2005, we made the initial deposit and signed the order for Citation X #240. We will take delivery on the plane the first week of March 2006â€Â! (http://elitecxteam.org/update.php)
Now I should mention that other people like Jon Courson, Chuch Smith, Greg Laurie, all fly coach, same as me. It is not for the lack of money either.
They're Leavin' On a Jet Plane
by Pete Evans & Todd Bates (http://www.wittenburgdoor.com)
ENTRY-LEVEL, STARTER JETS
Up-and-coming Tilton impersonator Paula White owns a Hawker-Siddeley "Jet Dragon" – aptly named for the trail of smoke it would leave IF it could fly or IF she could get parts for this 1965-vintage relic. Truly a vanity purchase, it's been grounded since she bought it, just so she can SAY she has a jet.
THE CESSNA CITATION CLUB
· Copeland proteges Jesse Duplantis and Jerry Savelle, plus Florida upstart Mark Bishop, each fly their own Cessna Citation 500. They cruise at 400 mph with a range of 1,400 miles and carry a price tag of about $1.25 million each.
THE GRUMMAN GULFSTREAM GUYS
· Fred Price, Creflo Dollar and Brother Benny Hinn all have their own Grumman Gulfstream II's. With a two-man crew and 19 passengers, these babies cruise at 581 mph with a range of 4,275 miles. Used, they're worth about $4.5 million each.
THE BIG-BUCK BOYS, THE CHALLENGER 600s
· Paul Crouch owns the current Queen of the Flying-Televangelist Fleet – a Bombardier Challenger 604. Carrying a crew of two plus 19 passengers, she cruises at 529 mph with a range of 3,860 miles. She's valued at $16.5 million, not including Paul's "special interior remodeling."
· The late Ken Hagin's Challenger 601, about 10 years older than Paul's, is "only" worth about $9.6 million.· Recently exposed uberspender Joyce Meyer has her own Challenger 600. A full 18 years older than Paul's, this one's only worth a paltry $4.5 million. Let's hear it for Joyce's frugal stewardship!
KENNY COPELAND – UNDISPUTED KING OF THE FLYING COWBOYS
· His Cessna Citation 550 Bravo (valued at $3.4 million), PLUS his Grumman Gulfstream II (worth $4.5 million) AND his Cessna Golden Eagle AND his Beech E-55 AND his assorted lesser aircraft AND his own airport all add up to untold millions of poor folks' dollars. But Kenny's masterstroke is the fact that he's now telling the faithful that God wants him and wife Gloria to EACH have their own Cessna Citation Ten super-jets. Flying just below the speed of sound, these state-of-the-art flying palaces carry a base sticker price of $20 million! That means when "God" has his way, the widows and orphans will have "invested" just about $50-60 million in Kenny's Heavenly Air Force.
UPDATE: “Over the past several years Kenneth and Gloria Copeland have been believing God for a Cessna Citation X jetâ€â€a plane they would be able to use in fulfilling their God-appointed assignment and the calling on Kenneth Copeland Ministries to take the Word of God to the worldâ€â€from the top to the bottom and all the way around. At 2 p.m. on Friday, July 22, 2005, we made the initial deposit and signed the order for Citation X #240. We will take delivery on the plane the first week of March 2006â€Â! (http://elitecxteam.org/update.php)
Now I should mention that other people like Jon Courson, Chuch Smith, Greg Laurie, all fly coach, same as me. It is not for the lack of money either.
V
vinc
Guest
vinc said:
Matthew 27:57 - When the even was come, there came a rich man of Arimathaea, named Joseph, who also himself was Jesus' disciple:
In the above verse, the Bible speaks about a rich man Joseph of Arimathaea who was also Jesus disciple.
So, it is very much possible to be rich and still be a disciple of Jesus.
Lord bless you.
L
lily of God
Guest
Jesus told the rich young man to sell everything he had and follow him, he refused. Jesus also said it is very hard for rich to be in God's kingdom.
peace :D
peace :D
lovely
Member
Salvation is not dependant on money, or lack of it, at all. The rich young ruler stumbled over his love for money because he didn't know Christ. Even if he had been the poor young ruler, he didn't know God! The tax collector, also rich and willing to do anything for money, gave his away because he did believe God (know God), and was willing to do anything to please Him. He knew he should return what he had taken, and even give compensation because it was right. His love for money was replaced with a new love for God.
The old saying that it is easier for a camel to fit through the eye of needle, than for a rich man to enter into Heaven...speaks to the Spirit of God's ability to change a man who serves money into a man who serves God...and that can apply to any idol in our life. This principal is about loving God first, and seeking His will first because we have been born again of the Spirit. The rich young ruler did not believe, but the tax collector, a few parables over, did. Jesus proved that a rich man can enter into Heaven, as long as He knows Christ, and is willing to put Him first.
If God says love me above all, we do it, and there is an outward fruit of love that will be evident if we do. Charity, the most important gift of all. If God blesses us with money, we should use it for His will, and give liberally to please Him, not to gain more...though we may by His grace. Did Joseph of Arimathea give, or did he ask God to give him more money? He gave his tomb to Christ, because Christ was more valuable to him than his own money, and status. If God prospers us, let it be because we are givers...not askers...and let us not expect it. Our prayer should be, "God give us more opportunities to give to others in your name."
As believers, our treasures are stored up in Heaven.
The Lord bless all of you.
The old saying that it is easier for a camel to fit through the eye of needle, than for a rich man to enter into Heaven...speaks to the Spirit of God's ability to change a man who serves money into a man who serves God...and that can apply to any idol in our life. This principal is about loving God first, and seeking His will first because we have been born again of the Spirit. The rich young ruler did not believe, but the tax collector, a few parables over, did. Jesus proved that a rich man can enter into Heaven, as long as He knows Christ, and is willing to put Him first.
If God says love me above all, we do it, and there is an outward fruit of love that will be evident if we do. Charity, the most important gift of all. If God blesses us with money, we should use it for His will, and give liberally to please Him, not to gain more...though we may by His grace. Did Joseph of Arimathea give, or did he ask God to give him more money? He gave his tomb to Christ, because Christ was more valuable to him than his own money, and status. If God prospers us, let it be because we are givers...not askers...and let us not expect it. Our prayer should be, "God give us more opportunities to give to others in your name."
As believers, our treasures are stored up in Heaven.
The Lord bless all of you.
V
vinc
Guest
lily of God said:
Yes.. its true that Jesus said that it is hard for those who trust in riches to enter into God's kingdom. But soon after that the disciples asked surprisingly to Jesus "Who then can be saved?" and the bible says that Jesus said, "The things which are impossible with men are possible with God". This means that Jesus assured the disciples saying that even the rich would enter the Kingdom of God as with God all things are possible.
I would like to mention a saying i heard from a Christian Preacher in the church -
"Let not the rich man glory in his riches and Let not the poor man glory in his poverty".
Lord bless you.
L
lily of God
Guest
Hi vinc,
Jesus also says that "In the same way, any of you who does not give up everything he has cannot be my disciple." Luke 14:33
peace :D
Jesus also says that "In the same way, any of you who does not give up everything he has cannot be my disciple." Luke 14:33
peace :D
V
vinc
Guest
lily of God said:
We need to understand the spiritual meaning of what Jesus said in this verse. He actually meant that a Disciple of Christ should be willing to give up everything, if the need arises in his life. For a Disciple of Christ worldly possessions or wealth are nothing compared to spiritual achievement. Even if he has any worldly possessions or wealth, he keeps them or makes use of them for the glory of God.
But, God never said no to enjoy the fruit of our labour according to the verse below -
Ecclesiastes 5:19 - Every man also to whom God hath given riches and wealth, and hath given him power to eat thereof, and to take his portion, and to rejoice in his labour; this is the gift of God.
The Bible says in the above verse that God has given us the power to eat and enjoy the riches and wealth that He has given. And this is the Gift of God.
Let us remember that Job despaired and complained against God during his poverty. And God comforted him with a double-fold blessings after the testing period. People who are blessed with riches and wealth from God can be possessing deep gratitude in their hearts unto God.
We need to consider even the Old Testament verses which will give us a balanced understanding of God's thinking.
The Old Testament contains history and the life of God's people who lived over a period of some thousands of years whereas the New Testament contains the history and the life of God's people over a period of a 2-3 centuries. This point needs to be taken into consideration so that we may not entirely reject God's positive thoughts on riches and wealth for His children given in the OT.
One of the most blessed verses in the New Testament is -
Philippians 4:11 - Not that I speak in respect of want: for I have learned, in whatsoever state I am, therewith to be content.
Like Apostle Paul, we need to learn to be content in whatever state we are whether rich or poor. For Contentment brings Happiness.
Lord bless you.
L
lily of God
Guest
vinc said:
Thank you vinc,
Above verse is one of my very favorites. I thank God for living in such a wealthy country so that I never experiance poverty. That's why I do my best to share as much as I can to the poor and needy and reach out to the lost souls.
In Old Testament times, God's people did not have responsibility to reach out to the lost souls. Discipleship study should come from the New Testament.
peace :D
Lewis
Member
So do you all honestly think that Jesus was poor, walking around in rags. The answer is no. And most of the 12 were business men, the Bible states nowhere that these men were poor. There is nothing wrong with being rich, and the Bible also says that the Workman Is Worthy Of His Hire, and who do you think they are talking about ? God did not command us to be poor, if we so not choose. Someone show me where that is at.
L
lily of God
Guest
Jesus never advocated being poor nor rich. He does say, though, that it is hard for the rich to enter His kingdom.
Why do we make so many excuses for the rich?
peace :D
Why do we make so many excuses for the rich?
peace :D
Lewis
Member
I would think that it is a selfish rich man, that Jesus is talking about' there are many rich people who give their time and money. And then you have those who do nothing for anybody. I will not make a excuse for the rich man. And I am totally against a selfish rich person. If I was rich I would give a lot to the poor and churches to further advance the kingdom of God. I see a lot of people talking about preachers with private jets' so what if they are flying around the world preaching the Gospel' so what if they have a jet. Not everybody acquires things through underhanded means, and then you have those who do. The Bible is full of rich people' who were people of God.
Now if you are a selfish rich man' Jesus commands you to give it up and follow Him, because He looks on the heart. And He knows what you are. And He wants you today' to give it up if the Holy Ghost tells you to, and He wants a heart that would be willing to give it up for Him. Jesus said it is hard for a rich man to enter heaven. He did not say it was IMPOSSIBLE. He was talking about thos selfish ones and the ones who think that they don't need God because they have it all. Now this is the way I look at it. Because God does bless certain people that way. Now I am waiting for somebody to tell me that God does not.
Now if you are a selfish rich man' Jesus commands you to give it up and follow Him, because He looks on the heart. And He knows what you are. And He wants you today' to give it up if the Holy Ghost tells you to, and He wants a heart that would be willing to give it up for Him. Jesus said it is hard for a rich man to enter heaven. He did not say it was IMPOSSIBLE. He was talking about thos selfish ones and the ones who think that they don't need God because they have it all. Now this is the way I look at it. Because God does bless certain people that way. Now I am waiting for somebody to tell me that God does not.
Gabbylittleangel
Member
jgredline said:
Jg,
This is sort of off thread, but I wanted to comment on this.
When I was a kid, I thought that this passage meant that Jesus wanted a pillow. I asked Him about it. The Lord asked me "Where is your head?' I was afraid it might be one of those trick questions, but I answered "On my shoulders." "Exactly." He said. "I am the head of the church, and the church is the body of Christ."
Lewis
Member
I guess not Gabby, Jesus was always on the go. Preaching somewhere. I would think that he was talking about that particular time. Back then people would put you up for the night, or longer, and they had no problems with taking in a stranger. And Jesus had to move from place to place, when His haters were after Him. But His Father made sure that He was provided for.